It is proposed to take Nos. 10, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 3. It is also proposed, subject to the agreement of the House that: business shall be interrupted at 10 p.m. tonight; the following arrangements shall apply in the case of No. 10: (a) the speech of the spokesperson for each of the groups shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case, (b) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes, and (c) the proceedings shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 10 p.m. Private Members' Business shall be No. 25.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal that business be interrupted at 10 p.m. agreed?
My party object to the artificial restriction on the debate on No. 10, but perhaps I could deal with that more easily when we reach the next point.
I agree, Deputy. I take it that the proposal that business be interrupted at 10 p.m. is agreed. Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 10 agreed?
As the Taoiseach knows better than anyone else in this House, this is the first time since 1970 that a Minister for Finance has been asked to resign. It is the first time since the Dáil was founded in 1919 that a Minister for Finance, having been asked to resign, refused and was sacked.
I trust that the Deputy is not anticipating the debate that is about to ensue.
No, Sir. I am making the case why we need a debate——
A brief comment on this subject is sufficient.
It is a fair statement.
A Cheann Comhairle, you are always interrupting the Opposition. You should stop interrupting and let us have some fairness.
You do not interrupt other Members of the House in the same way.
We will not have a speech now.
I am merely explaining with extreme brevity why I believe this debate should not be restricted. I promise you, Sir, I will take no more than 30 seconds to do so.
Deputy John Bruton knows as well as any Member of this House that there is a debate about to ensue today, and he ought not anticipate it.
I will take no more than 30 seconds. With respect to you, Sir, you are prolonging the matter.
The Deputy is entitled to make a statement.
You, a Cheann Comhairle, are interrupting him.
You are always heckling the Opposition; just cut it out.
The Chair does not heckle anyone.
You do not interrupt the Government side of the House.
Neither does the Chair interrupt; he intervenes to maintain order and nothing else.
You are the greatest contributor to disorder in the House.
You can take it from me, Sir, that I intend to be brief if I am allowed.
I accept the Deputy's word for that.
It is the first time since the Dáil was founded in 1919 that a Minister for Finance, having been asked to resign, refused and was sacked. It is also the first time the House will have had an opportunity to discuss the recently agreed joint programme between the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party. In view of these considerations, my party believe that this debate should not be artificially restricted. My party consists of 55 Deputies and under the proposed arrangements only four of them will be allowed to speak. The other 51 Deputies, if they wish — most of them will not so wish — should have the opportunity to speak. For these reasons I am objecting to that part of the Order of Business which requires that these proceedings be brought to a close at 10 p.m. I am not objecting to the time limits on speeches which are reasonable. However, I object to the artificial limitation on the overall time for the debate.
The Deputy has made his point.
Question put: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 10 be agreed."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 51.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Mattie.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P. J.
- Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Kennedy, Michael.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flood, Chris.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lyons, Denis.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Stafford, John.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Ahearn, Therese.
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barnes, Monica.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Belton, Louis J.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connor, John.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Cotter, Bill.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Finucane, Michael.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lee, Pat.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Boylan.
Question declared carried.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether it has been brought to his attention that Allied Irish Banks and the Bank of Ireland appear to be operating a cartel in trying to force local authorities to pay bank charges and whether he has addressed that matter under the Competition Act, which was passed by this House recently?
That is something that should be raised in a more appropriate manner.
It is an important matter, and the Taoiseach might consider it and make a statement to the House.
It is not in order now, and the Deputy knows that.
May I ask the Taoiseach how soon the legislation to amend the Extradition Act, as promised in the Programme for Government will be circulated?
I cannot give the Deputy an exact date yet, but it will be proceeded with as rapidly as possible.
Is it likely to be in this session? The promise in the Programme for Government is simply to extend one section of the Act in an important way. Are we likely to have that legislation this session?
This should not give rise to a discussion now.
I cannot give any undertaking on that.
Perhaps you will be able to assist me, a Cheann Comhairle. I put down a question today to the Taoiseach about the meeting he had with Mr. Cahill concerning the £2 million that Tuam was promised——
Deputy Connaughton, please.
I notice it is not on the Order Paper.
The Deputy should find a more suitable way to raise that matter.
I would like to ask the Taoiseach why he is afraid——
Please, Deputy Connaughton.
——and where is the £2 million?
That does not arise now.
We want to know more about that meeting.
Deputy Connaughton should desist.
There are two Bills that have been on the Order Paper for quite some time and have not been taken. Will the Taoiseach give an indication as to when they are to be taken? I refer to No. 21, the Electoral Bill, which has been on the Order Paper since June. I also refer to the Roads Bill, which was promised for the past two years and eventually appeared but has not been debated. When will those items be taken in the House.
The question is irrelevant.
As the Deputy is well aware, and probably contribute a bit to this himself, our programme of legislation for the session has been subject to considerable interruption.
Self-inflicted.
I am looking at the programme of legislation between now and the end of the session to see what we can achieve now. As the Deputy knows, we have also agreed to have a debate on European affairs before the Maastricht Summit. Unfortunately, all of these matters are interfering with our legislative programme but, as I said, I will be looking now at the whole programme and I will endeavour to let the Deputy know as soon as possible what we hope to complete in this session.
Will the Taoiseach agree, in view of the case we are making at the moment for Structural Funds to be increased, that having in place a Roads Bill to ensure we get value for money from the spending of EC money is quite urgent? May I ask the Taoiseach to at least give an assurance that that Bill will be taken before Christmas?
It is on the Order Paper for today, although the Deputy will understand that it will not be taken today.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether he is aware of the gross discourtesy shown me and the other Independent Deputies in that we were not advised of the substantial changes in the arrangements for today. I understand that the Whips met yesterday and concluded their meeting at 2.30 p.m. In spite of that, I was not notified. May I ask the Taoiseach what steps he is going to take to prevent a recurrence of that?
One way the Deputy could ensure he is more readily informed of our Dáil proceedings would be to join a party, preferably this one.
(Interruptions.)
That is a most inadequate reply. I was asking a serious question and I expected a serious answer.
Obviously he wants to join us.
He might have to be extradited.
May I ask the Taoiseach, in view of the fact that the legislative programme for this session is falling well behind what was anticipated, and in view of the growing consensus for the improvement of the business of this House by way of establishing a proper committee system, when the terms of reference and the order to establish the new EC Affairs Committee will be brought before the House? Will that committee be in operation in time to give proper consideration to the deliberations of the Maastricht Summit?
Is legislation involved?
Ultimately, yes, a Cheann Comhairle. My understanding is that the widening of the powers of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the EC will require legislation because the committee was established by legislation. That matter is being examined as expeditiously as possible.
A Cheann Comhairle, may I have your assistance in finding out how I can raise in the House the escalating problem of repossessions and evictions? I put down questions to the Minister for the Environment and I tried to raise the matter on the Adjournment but I was told it was not the Minister's responsibility.
The Deputy should seek the services of my office again and we shall strive to facilitate him if that is at all possible. He may not proceed now.
The point is that borrowers are having problems.
I appreciate that I may not be completely in order, but I have tried by way of the Adjournment debate and by way of special notice question to establish the up-to-date position with regard to the courts strike. Will the Taoiseach please intervene to ensure that the courts strike is brought to a conclusion?
Deputy Gerry Collins should appeal to them.
(Interruptions.)
May I ask the Taoiseach whether we can expect a Broadcasting Bill in this session or in the next few months?
I would not give it much chance in this session.
I wish to ask the Taoiseach, as Minister for Finance, his temporary hat, his view on a report in yesterday's Irish Independent of a £250,000 subsidy for a high-brow concert in this city when there are so many other worthy causes in the country.
Deputy Boylan, there are many ways and means of raising such matters. It is not in order now.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Boylan, please. I am proceeding to deal with item No. 10, nomination of members of the Government.
(Interruptions.)
I am calling on Deputy Harte and I hope he will be brief.
May I ask the Taoiseach, when dealing with matters for consideration in Europe, in view of the fact that all borders will be disappearing in 1992 and taking into consideration the fact that the British Government are building fortresses along the borders between Donegal and Derry and Donegal and Tyrone, what action he is taking to permit the free movement of traffic?
That would be a very good question, Deputy, and I shall facilitate him in tabling it. It is not in order now. The Deputy might pursue it by way of a question proper.
After 1992 the people of the entire continent of Europe will be able to move freely——
Deputy Harte, that is not in order now. The Deputy can say all of that at another time. I now call item No. 10.