Vol. 413 No. 3
7 Mr. Pattison asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will negotiate with the Department of Health and Social Services in the United Kingdom so that they can reply to queries and forms sent by his Department in a speedy manner as it is now taking nine weeks for a reply to questions raised by his Department which is too long when a person here is waiting for payment of benefit to which they are entitled; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
13 Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Social Welfare if, further to previous replies to parliamentary questions which indicated that inquiries between his Department and the Department of Health and Social Services in the United Kingdom can take between four and six months, he will now, as a matter of urgency, establish a new unit in his Department to speed up this procedure so that he can deal with the large number of returned and returning emigrants who need to have their PRSI contributions made in the UK added to their PRSI contributions recorded in Ireland without delay so as to avoid hardship in view of the Government's recognition that demographic changes, including returning emigrants, are contributing factors to the high levels of unemployment; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take questions Nos. 7 and 13 together.
Under the provisions of EC Regulation 1408/71 workers returning to Ireland after a period of employment in Britain or any other EC member state can have their foreign social insurance contributions taken into account for social welfare benefit purposes in Ireland. However, before eligibility can be determined a statement of the insurance record must be obtained from the member state concerned. For people who do not already have their foreign insurance records in their possession my Department request the records from the relevant social security institution.
There can be considerable delays before the information necessary for updating insurance records is obtained. Delays can be for a number of reasons. For instance, necessary details may not be recorded centrally in other member states. These details may have to be retrieved from regional or local offices or even from previous employers.
One way in which Irish workers returning from Britain could speed up processing of subsequent benefits claims in Ireland is to request a statement of their insurance records from the unemployment benefit offices of the Department of Employment before departure from Britain. I am examining ways of raising awareness of the procedure among Irish workers in Britain and other member states.
I am very conscious of the increase in the movement of workers between Ireland and Britain and the other EC member states, a trend that we may expect to accelerate as barriers to movement are removed with completion of the Single Market.
The member states and the European Commission are well aware of the problems involved in transferring insurance records. My Department are actively participating in an EC working group examining proposals for the establishment of a telecommunications network for transfer of insurance records among member states. Parallel with and complementary to this activity, my Department and the United Kingdom Department of Social Security are working towards the early completion of a telecommunications link between our two administrations. Officials of my Department are in regular contact with their counterparts in the Department of Social Security and preparations are being made for a full meeting on these and other issues in the near future.
I am pleased to note that efforts are being made to improve the arrangements for the transfer of records. However, is the Minister aware that it can take up to a couple of months to process a claim? Surely there must be something that the Minister can do in conjunction with his counterpart in the United Kingdom because it is on the United Kingdom side that delays occur. My question does not cast any reflection on the Irish side who, as the Minister is well aware, continually send reminders. Pending the installation of telecommunications facilities would the Minister do something in the near future, with his counterpart in the United Kingdom, in an effort to improve the position on the United Kingdom's side given that most of the claims are made by people returning from the United Kingdom
I am fully aware of the position and I repeat that in the main delays are due to the difficulty in obtaining records of the person making the claim from the United Kingdom. As the Deputy said, it can take up to three or four months to have cases sorted out. Delays can occur for various reasons. Even though the operations of the United Kingdom department have been regionalised it is sometimes difficult to get particulars from a region where a person may have worked. Furthermore, some British employers are reluctant to respond to inquiries. Apparently, the Department of Health and Social Security do not have the power to compel them to supply information with the result that they sometimes find it difficult to obtain details from employers in the United Kingdom. Another difficulty is that people may use different names in the United Kingdom and other member states. However, we are endeavouring to speed things up by installing a new system, as I have already indicated.
I am sure the Minister is aware that great hardship is being caused by the delays. May I ask him if he is aware that the section which deals with Irish emigrants who have returned home and now require records is the only section in the Department of Health and Social Security which does not have computers and that its operatives seem to have quill pens and write all their letters by hand and cannot be read? These letters are sent to pensioners who cannot read them. Indeed, in some cases I have been unable to read them. Would the Minister make a special case to the British authorities to have the Irish section of the international department of the Department of Health and Social Security treated equally given that it is not computerised at present and it does not seen to have access to computers or even typewriters?
I am aware of these delays and, as I have already indicated, we are taking steps to improve the position. One way by which we can improve the position substantially is by making people aware of the importance of getting their records before they return home. I have a number of leaflets which I will circulate to Deputies who can make a contribution by making people who intend to return home aware of the necessity to get the information together before they return home.
Can the Minister make the British Minister aware of this?
I am not certain that great hardship is being caused because there are schemes which people can avail of pending the receipt of records. I take the point however, that it is important to update the systems. For this reason, we intend installing a new telecommunications network. I have not come across any quill pens yet but I am sure there are some around. However, we do not have any in our Department.
There are some. We are not complaining about the Department.
They do send out hand written letters some of which are very difficult to read. This is regrettable given that 1992 will bring a free flow of labour between the Twelve. In view of the fact that there are almost as many Irish people living in England as on the island itself and the fact that 350,000 people emigrated in the eighties while 200,000 returned, would the Minister agree that we provide our emigrants with a terrible service and that pressure will have to be brought to bear on his counterpart in Great Britain to move away, as has been pointed out, from the quill and the handwritten notes and letters to a more sophisticated communications system? Would the Minister make his British counterpart aware of the fact that returned Irish emigrants are dissatisfied that it takes so long to process claims in Great Britain?
Both I and the Department are aware of the difficulties being encountered. In view of the representations made by Deputies I will take a special interest in this matter to see if I can put arrangements in place to expedite the processing of claims.
