Brian O'Shea
Question:8 Mr. O'Shea asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline (1) the number of applicants for the carer's allowance as at 31 October 1991 and (2) the number approved.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Carer's Allowance.
There have been 8,723 applications for the carer's allowance up to week ending 1 November 1991. The total number of persons in receipt of the allowance is 3,731.
Would the Minister agree that this scheme has failed, is in a shambles and that the reason for this is that the means test is far too rigorous in that any income over £2 per week is reckonable income? Is it not also true where the carer is the adult dependant of a social welfare recipient that the net improvement in income is very small because the adult dependant payment ceases once the person qualifies for the carer's allowance?
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but the Deputy's question is essentially statistical. Matters of policy do not therefore arise now. Matters of policy must be pursued by way of separate questions later, not now.
A Cheann Comhairle, I am seeking——
That is my firm ruling on the matter and it may not be challenged.
Can we ask questions relating to the statistical information?
The question is statistical; the figures have been given and policy matters do not arise now.
Can we relate the figures to figures given at an earlier stage?
Please, Deputy Byrne, my ruling must be very clear. It is a long standing rule in this House.
In relation to the figure of 3,731, for the number of persons approved, would the Minister say how many of those are in receipt of the allowance at the maximum rate?
I have the reasons people are not in receipt of the allowance but I am not sure if I have the figure for the number who are in receipt of the allowance at the maximum rate.
The figure was 1,613.
Criticism has been levelled at the scheme, in particular at the means test, because people expected to benefit under the scheme but did not. The main reason claims were rejected was that the carers had means in excess of the limit. As Deputies are aware, there is a means test. Thirty-nine per cent were refused on that basis. Twenty-five per cent were refused because it was considered they would be better off on some other payment, such as the prescribed relative allowance, while 17 per cent were pensioners who were in receipt of other pensions and, consequently, ineligible for the carer's allowance and approximately 19 per cent were refused on other grounds. The scheme has attracted much attention and in the main criticism has been levelled against the means test. Representations have been made constantly to have the means test eased. If the means test is to be eased, further resources will have to be provided. This year the scheme will cost approximately £8 million. Improvements to the means test to bring other people into the scheme could only be made if additional financial resources are made available for the scheme. That is a matter which would have to be dealt with in the context of the budget.
Will the Minister state how many people in receipt of DPMA were included in the figures? There is consternation among DPMA recipients who were circularised in regard to benefits to which they were not entitled.
That is a particular and specific question.
Perhaps the Minister has an answer.
I will pass that information to the Deputy because I do not have it now. The original question referred to numbers only.
The original figure of £8 million was to provide for 8,000 applicants. Will the Minister agree that, therefore, there must be a surplus in the provision for this scheme as only 3,731 people qualified nationally?
This concerns another area.
I do not have the details now but if the Deputy puts down a separate question I will deal with it fully.
The question is very precise and does not allow for the scope we all desire.