Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 3 Dec 1991

Vol. 413 No. 9

Written Answers. - Pupil/Teacher Ratio.

Roger T. Garland

Question:

69 Mr. Garland asked the Minister for Education if his attention has been drawn to the well known research into class size which indicates that stress in teachers increases and pupil learning decreases when class numbers are above twenty, while smaller numbers would increase benefits; and if, in view of the fact that the 1990 survey showed that a very high proportion of primary teachers would rather be doing some other job, he will consider making regulations which would introduce greater flexibility into the system so that the greatest benefit can be obtained from actual time spent in the classroom.

Minister for Education (Mr. Davern)

Any demanding job will give rise to a degree of stress and teaching is no exception. I am not certain to which particular piece of research the Deputy is referring but I would draw his attention to the report of the OECD examiners on Education Policy in Ireland which states:

It is notoriously difficult to determine what is the ideal PTR and, in turn, class size. There is certainly no corelation between the ratio and the performance of pupils. Thus, Japanese pupils come out best in international comparisons of academic attainment and yet the ratio in Japan is higher than in many other OECD countries.

I am assuming that the 1990 survey to which the Deputy refers is the one commissioned by the teachers' unions to identify the principal sources of stress among teachers, the effects of stress on their lives and possible remedies.

According to my information, a total of 2,759 teachers were surveyed and the response rate was 55.3 per cent. If it is on this basis that the Deputy is inferring that a high proportion of primary teachers would rather be doing another job, he is doing a great disservice to the teaching profession. Again, to quote the OECD report "Most practising teachers have few reservations about their own professional competence and their good standing in society."

As the Deputy will be aware, improved staffing arrangements for national schools which took effect from the beginning of the current school year were aimed at reducing overly large classes as well as meeting the needs of the disadvantaged.