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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 Dec 1991

Vol. 414 No. 9

Supplementary Estimates, 1991. - Vote 34: Industry and Commerce.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £2,393,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1991, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Industry and Commerce, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain loans, subsidies, grants and grants-in-aid.

The purpose of this Supplementary Estimate is first, to provide an additional £7.75 million to the IDA, in respect of their capital grants expenditure; and second, to provide an additional £260,000 for the Department's consultancy subhead. The total additional funding required, £8.01 million, is offset by savings on a number of subheads, which, together with increased appropriations in aid, result in a net funding requirement of £2.393 million as detailed in the Supplementary Estimate.

For the year ending 31 December 1991, the IDA were approved a grant-in-aid of £106 million or capital grants. In addition IDA were permitted to avail of £12 million of their own resources made up of grant repayments and reimbursements from the European Social Fund. The IDA's approved expenditure, therefore, for capital grants in 1991 was £118 million.

The IDA require additional funding of £16 million for capital grants in 1991. This has arisen because of the increased level of grant claims in relation to the main grant programmes. The £16 million shortfall on capital grants will be partly met — to the tune of £8.25 million — as follows:

The transfer of £2.75 million additional own resources from building operations to capital grants;

The retention of £3.5 million proceeds from the sale of IDA property which was part of £4.5 million due to be remitted to the Exchequer and which will now be transferred to capital grants;

The realisation of £2 million additional own resources on capital grants from the European Social Fund and from grant repayments.

Over the past few years, there has been a substantially increased level of IDA backed job creation, which has included the attraction to Ireland of a number of major flagship projects in sectors and geographic regions of strategic significance for the IDA's inward investment efforts. These factors combined with an accelerated rate of project development in a number of instances have given rise to the need for increased funding in 1991.

The three-year period of the Programme for National Recovery, 1988-1990, saw an increased activity level, resulting in over 36,000 sustained first time jobs being created with IDA assistance. This represented an increase of 40 per cent over the previous three-year period. At the same time, over the past number of years, there has been a greater focus on achieving greater value for State expenditure. In project negotiation maximum emphasis has been put on achieving sustained long term performance at least cost to the Exchequer. As a result the cost of IDA-backed jobs which have been sustained over a seven-year period fell from £20,097 per job in 1986 to £14,271 in 1990 — measured in constant 1990 prices.

Over the same period — 1986-90 — this allowed the Exchequer capital grant-in-aid to IDA to be reduced from £166.1 million to £110.1 million in constant 1990 prices. Notwithstanding the substantial effort on the part of the IDA in relation to the achievement of value for money, the significantly increased job creation activity since 1988 has led to a short term real increase in IDA capital grant-in-aid requirements. In the medium-term, as the balance between activity levels and the reduction in support for individual projects levels off, the overall funding requirement will recommence its real decline.

The shortfall in grant-in-aid has occurred now because, since 1987, it has been the policy to include a performance clause in every grant agreement, tying payment of grants to fulfilment of job creation targets by companies. Because of the very strong job performance of companies approved for grant support since the introduction of performance clauses, substantial tranches of grants approved to these companies have now become due for payment. In negotiations with companies, IDA always stress that they see the grant agreement as a two-way contract between the company and the Government. Just as companies must fulfil their job commitments, it is, of course, equally important that IDA be in a position to meet their grant payment obligations promptly if they are to maintain credibility with companies.

Since 1988 a number of flagship projects have been approved in sectors of strategic significance for the IDA's inward investment effort. Some of these projects have been significantly large and in a number of cases their investment programme is ahead of schedule. One example of this is the large development at Leixlip for Intel Corporation, the first ever dedicated wafer fabrication plant in Ireland. This investment has been brought forward by one year, and construction of the new 400,000 sq. ft. facility commenced in 1991. The success in attracting this type of facility is invaluable to IDA's marketing efforts in the electronics sector.

The continued efforts to reduce the costs of industrial development in the future are reflected in the implementation of the recommendations of the Triennial Review of Industrial Performance, which my Department published last year. Since 1988, substantial progress has been made in introducing repayable grants in medium-large Irish industry. At the end of 1991, nearly one-third of all financial support approved to this sector was in repayable form. The IDA are confident that, in line with the objective set out in the triennial review, they will be in a position to move by the end of 1993 to a position where 50 per cent of all financial support to medium-large indigenous industry is in the form of repayable, or other remunerating, forms of aid.

The reductions in grant levels recommended in the triennial review in respect of small business and expansions in overseas industry are also being implemented by the IDA. IDA backed companies have made a substantial contribution to job creation in the economy in recent years. Over the three years 1988-90, these firms contributed 18,000 jobs per annum on average towards the national objective of 20,000 jobs a year, which was set down in the Programme for National Recovery.

Despite the difficult environment in 1991, the IDA's target for new first time jobs in manufacturing and international services has been substantially met. In addition, the manufacturing sector as a whole is expected to hold its own and, while other countries are experiencing a decline in the employment contribution of the manufacturing sector, the outlook in Ireland is promising.

The key priority at present must be to address the unemployment problem. Through a combination of prudent Government policy aimed at creating the appropriate fiscal and macro-economic environment and focusing on the achievement and maintenance of international competitiveness at company level, the Irish industrial scene is now in a strong position to move forward. I believe very firmly that, assuming the international economic climate becomes more favourable, we should be able to return to the levels of manufacturing job creation achieved in the 1988-90 period.

However, while the success of that period was built to a significant extent on strong gains in macro-economic competitiveness in our major export markets, in future we are unlikely to be able to rely as much on macro-economic effects. Further gains in competitiveness must, therefore, come from improved performance at industry segment and company level through the more focused development policies being pursued by the IDA.

The projected excess on the consultancy subhead arises primarily because of assignments related to the work of the industrial policy review group which was set up in June, 1991 and the section 14 inquiries which I commissioned into certain aspects of the Greencore and Telecom affairs. While there are some offsetting savings on other elements of the consultancy subhead, an overall excess of £260,000 is projected.

With regard to the industrial policy review group, Deputies will be aware that, last June, I asked a group of leading people from the worlds of industry, business, economic research and trade union affairs to advise on the full range of policies and measures that bear on or influence the development of industry and services here. They had to undertake a fundamental review of a large number of areas of public policy and for that they required independent advice.

The group are now finalising their report and I look forward to receiving it and considering its contents, in the new year.

The first section 14 inquiry relates to Siúicre éireann cpt and certain other named companies forming part of the Greencore Group. I have already made reference to this inquiry, in dealing with questions earlier this afternoon. As Deputies will be aware, the inspector furnished a final report to me on 4 December 1991, which I published on 5 December 1991. On foot of the final report, I decided to continue the restrictions imposed on the Talmino loan note following the interim report and to refer this report also to the Director of Public Prosecutions for consideration of possible action. Further possible breaches of company law and fiduciary duties were identified in the report.

The second inquiry relates to Hoddle Investments Ltd. and Chestvale Properties Ltd. I appointed an inspector, under section 14 of the Companies Act, 1990, on 14 October 1991 — replacing an inspector appointed on 1 October 1991 — to investigate and report on the persons who have been financially interested in the success or failure of Hoddle Investments Ltd. and Chestvale Properties Ltd. The appointment arose from concerns which arose from the purchase by Telecom éireann of the former Johnston, Mooney and O'Brien site at Ballsbridge, Dublin, and the recommendations on 1 October 1991 by an inquiry established by the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications. The fact that there have been so many attempts to disrupt the proceedings of the inspector is a matter of concern. All these actions have been strongly defended, in the public interest, and no effort will be spared to seek to ensure a proper conclusion to this inquiry.

Since these remarks were prepared, the House may be aware that apparently I have to appear before the High Court on Friday, arising out of the last named inquiry, at the instance of Mr. Dermot Desmond to show reasons why I should not be sent to prison.

Let us hope that that does not come about. May I advise Members that because of the severe time constraint this Estimate will have to wind up at 5.45 p.m.? If everybody is to speak, his time is limited.

I am glad to see the Minister is still with us and I hope he will enjoy his Christmas dinner in Limerick if not in Mountjoy. However we will visit him on St. Stephen's Day. We have about 16 minutes remaining so I propose that it is divided equally among my three colleagues, if that should meet the agreement of the House.

Acting Chairman

Is that agreed? Agreed.

We are not opposing this Estimate. I welcome the Minister's remarks. In the course of his script he emphasised the necessity for competitiveness in Irish industry which he suggested may come about through the more focused development policies being pursued by the IDA and also by being more competitive in our export markets. Last week I put down a Priority Question to be answered by the Minister today. The question asked whether the Minister's Department had conducted an investigation into the possible damage to the competitive position of Irish industry vis-à-vis industries in the United Kingdom following the British Government's decision not to take part in the Social Charter outlined at the Maastricht Summit last week. Some clever person in the Minister's office — I presume that the Minister had nothing to do with it himself — decided that that was a matter for the Minister for Labour and passed it on. I do not think that is very helpful, and I should like the Minister to convey that to his officials. It is clear that the issue of concern is the competitive position of Irish industry, which is the responsibility of the Minister for Industry and Commerce. The criticisms voiced by federations of industrialists were made because of a genuine concern that the Irish position will be damaged because Britain has decided not to agree the Social Charter.

The British Prime Minister on his return from the Maastricht Summit said that he had not signed the Social Charter because it would give British industry a competitive advantage in attracting industry and in exporting to other EC countries. That point has been emphasised by the British delegations for the past six weeks because of their concern about what might come out of the Maastricht Summit. If that were true, then I should have expected the Minister's Department to carry out a study for the Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Minister for Finance and whoever else accompanied him to Maastricht, so that the argument could be rebutted or, if it could not be rebutted, Ireland — whose structures of industrial relations are the same as those of the British — could be put on a level footing with Britain and not sign on for the charter at Maastricht.

This is a very serious problem that should have been addressed by the Taoiseach before he went to Maastricht. The Minister's Department should not have availed him of the opportunity to sidestep the issue at Question Time today.

If what the British Government are saying is true, that the Social Charter agreed at Maastricht will put Britain in an advantageous competitive position, then by definition Ireland will be put at more of a disadvantage than will any of the remaining ten EC countries.

Precisely what is the Minister and his Department doing to redress the balance in our favour? Of all countries in Europe, Ireland must be competitive — we do not have a population base from which to export, some of our costs are higher than those in other European countries, we are an island, we have peripheral disadvantages and we have a poor transport structure. If Ireland cannot achieve competitiveness within each individual industry, more jobs will be lost.

I am not sure whether the Minister will be able to do so at this stage, but I should have expected him to carry out a study so that the Government would be able to assure Irish industry that the claims made by the British authorities are not correct or, if Britain will have the competitive advantage, the Minister should outline to the House — or to at least bring in different industry sectors and tell them — what he proposes to do to redress the imbalance.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce is doing his job against the background of one of the highest ever levels of reported growth in GNP. Obviously, such growth is welcome but a great deal of the growth we have already experienced and are likely to experience is in very restricted areas. There has been substantial growth in multinational profits and in profits in the financial services sector. A great deal of that growth has already drained out of the economy. A continuation of the policy of wealthy Irish companies investing the bulk of their profits abroad will deny us the opportunity of benefiting from that growth.

From the figures available it is clear that the Government have no coherent industrial policy aimed at translating growth into wealth retained in Ireland and into jobs for Irish workers. We need radical changes in industrial policy to secure the concept of value added in the Irish economy and to maximise investment in the Irish economy. Without change our economic growth will continue to have more impact on job creation in America, Japan and Germany than here. The improvements in recent years in efficiency, wage moderation and the public finances have all been achieved on the backs of working people. It is time they got their fair share of the benefits. One of the most important, even if medium-term, ways in which the benefits can be shared would be through a radical revamping of industrial policy.

The essential failure of the Minister for Industry and Commerce is that he is content to tinker with industrial policy and has avoided any fundamental consideration of the ways in which we create and share wealth. No doubt the Minister is arguing in Cabinet for yet another cut in the top tax rate but the fact that so many people in Ireland are on low or moderate incomes yet are in the higher tax brackets does not seem to be of the same concern.

The Minister has had ample time since 1989 to produce a coherent industrial policy suited to the needs of Ireland in the nineties but, as was illustrated in his speech again today, he goes back to the old cliches. The Minister talks about a policy aimed at creating the appropriate fiscal and macro-economic environment and states that with that the Irish industrial scene is now in a strong position to move forward. If Irish industry were in such a strong position to move forward then the Government would hardly be making provision for social welfare payments for an extra 20,000 or more people during 1992.

The philosophy of the Minister and the Government will not meet the needs of Ireland in this decade. As I have said, a radical revamp is essential.

The Workers' Party will not be opposing this Estimate either.

Although the Minister has talked about the enhanced efficiency of the IDA and its improved performance in terms of cost per job created and so forth, the fact remains that unemployment is worsening. It has been a singular achievement of the Minister that in the public mind he seems to be preoccupied with protecting what little virtue there is in Government rather than with tackling the unemployment crisis. He has escaped remarkably unscathed from the extent of the crisis that opens in front of us.

I am certainly interested in the section of the Minister's contribution dealing with the review body and the report, conclusions and recommendations that will derive from that review. I look forward to them. The review is overdue. It is one straw at which we can grasp in these circumstances. However, I am aware that the Minister has relied on a very orthodox approach to industrial policy and to economic policy generally in the composition and the terms of reference to the review body. He said that expert advice had to be availed of and one would expect that. To my knowledge, however, some of those who have been recruited to assist the review group hold a very traditionalist and orthodox view about the changes needed in industrial policy. I, for one, will certainly be very interested in the work and the findings of the review group.

If Deputy Garland is going to speak I shall have to be very brief but I do have a comment to make about the final chapter of the Minister's contribution, which relates to the efficacy of section 14 of the new Companies Act in so far as it has been applied to the two cases that he instanced. If I heard the Minister correctly, at Question Time today he said that in future he would probably be more inclined, when necessary, to lean towards the invocation of the powers under section 8 of the Act.

No, the opposite.

Perhaps the Minister would remind me which section gives access to bank accounts, that is the critical issue.

Section 8 does.

That is what worries me.

There is a fault in section 8, is there not?

In the case of Hoddle Investments Limited and Chestvale Properties Limited, without the capacity to follow the money trail we will not get behind that particular scam. It appears to me that the appointment, ab initio, ought to have been under the section of the Act that allowed access to bank accounts. Otherwise we will continue to have the obstruction and arrogance we have experienced in the investigation being conducted. The public demand that this matter be clarified conclusively and satisfactorily. I do not question the Minister's will or commitment, indeed I welcome the last sentence of his introductory remarks to the effect that the public can be assured a proper conclusion to the inquiry but I am honestly very dubious about his ability to provide that if we cannot follow the money trail through bank accounts. Otherwise it will be obstructed as is currently happening.

Deputy Garland rose.

Acting Chairman

I would remind Deputy Garland that we are now in the time allowed for the Minister to reply. Does the Minister wish to give way to the Deputy?

I agree to give Deputy Garland one minute, if that is agreeable.

Acting Chairman

Then, as the House is agreeable, Deputy Garland has one minute.

I thank the Minister for the one minute; it is very little. I will be opposing this Supplementary Estimate.

That is the thanks the Minister gets.

Well, that is the way. I thought Deputy Barry was going to oppose it. I feel I must do so by way of protest at the way the IDA have operated here in recent years. There are signs of a Pauline conversion here. I hope the industrial policy review group will make some recommendations such as that emphasis should be laid now on indigenous industry, preferably with a very high labour content, in an endeavour to solve our unemployment problems. It is generally recognised that the policies of the IDA have not been successful in reducing our levels of unemployment.

I might deal first with the point Deputy Peter Barry made in regard to the Maastricht Summit, the fear that we might become less competitive vis-à-vis the United Kingdom. Obviously, that is a fear up to a point but I think we can overcome it. Particularly in terms of the attraction of overseas industry, I will not be shy, if the Lord spares me, about going around the United States and Japan telling them that they should look to Ireland, a full and committed member of the European Community, rather than look elsewhere at a country that is half in and half out of the EC, that not alone has not signed on for its social obligations within the Community but has not signed on for its monetary commitments within the Community. In my humble opinion the British have not strengthened their position either within the Community or in relation to third countries by their less than complete commitment to the EC.

That is as may be.

I suppose I can deal with one other point only in the very short time available to me. I do not think that the problem raised by Deputy Rabbitte about bank accounts is, in practice as large as he might imagine. The right to have access to the accounts — I am now speaking from memory without having notes or the Act before me — comes from section 10, not from either sections 8 or 14. I think section 10 does refer to section 8. A small amendment could make section 10 refer to section 14 as well if it was shown to be necessary. There are some other small amendments we would make also. For example, I would omit the reference in section 8 to the Minister for Justice. I do not know why it is there because it does not seem appropriate. It would be better that one Minister would deal with the matter.

I really do not have time now to go into the matters arising out of this section 14 inquiry. As I mentioned earlier, apparently I am now before the courts for my efforts. I want to maintain the right of a Minister who is criticised — perhaps rightly or wrongly; I do not know, but criticised anyway by a person who is subject to investigation — to reply, whether in this House or outside it. I exercised that right and propose to continue to exercise it. I would have thought that my right, as a Minister, to answer such criticism was a matter about which the courts would not concern themselves, that they would see it in the proper sphere. Obviously I cannot pre-judge what will happen on Friday but I want to say here and now that I will continue to exercise my constitutional right, as I think should every Minister and indeed every Member of this House.

Acting Chairman

I will now have to put the question.

Is that why the Minister is being summoned, because of his criticism of the decision on Tuesday?

We all support that decision to exercise one's constitutional right.

Acting Chairman

I must now put the question: "That the Supplementary Estimate be agreed to."

No, I am opposing it.

Acting Chairman

In accordance with the Order of the House this morning, the division is postponed until 6.45 p.m.

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