John Bruton
Question:2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will give details of the likely business to be transacted at the EC Summit in Lisbon; and if he is seeking to have any matters placed on the agenda of that meeting.
Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Lisbon Summit.
Madeleine Taylor-Quinn
Question:3 Mrs. Taylor-Quinn asked the Taoiseach the position he intends taking at the Lisbon Summit in June on the European Commission's report on admitting new members to the Community; and if he will be urging member states to review and reflect on Community structures.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.
It is the member state currently holding the Presidency which, in the first instance, proposes the draft agenda for meetings of the European Council, which is normally circulated some days before the meeting. The Deputy will, therefore, appreciate that at this early stage no such communication has yet been received.
I should, however, recall that as agreed at its last meeting, two major items which will be discussed at the Lisbon Council meeting will be the Delors II Budgetary Package and EC Enlargement.
The Delors II proposals are, of course, currently being examined by both the ECOFIN and Foreign Affairs Councils in preparation for the Lisbon Summit.
On EC Enlargement, the Commission is currently working on the paper which it was asked to submit for consideration in Lisbon and I do not believe it would serve any useful purpose at this stage for me to comment on or to try to anticipate the contents of this paper.
Would the Taoiseach agree that any enlargement of the Community should be vetoed by Ireland unless the Delors II Package which is a basic minimum so far as a federal budgetary Europe is concerned is accepted in full?
It would be totally inappropriate for me on behalf of the Government and the Irish people to state in advance the negotiating position I might take up on any particular issue at any summit. That has always been the case and it is the best way of approaching the matter. The question of any enlargement of the Community will, of course, be examined very carefully as to its implications for Ireland and the Community in general. Somebody purporting to report on what President Delors said has hinted that the paper on enlargement might be a bit of a shock to the members of the Community when they see it.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that if the Community is enlarged without an increase in the budget all we will have is a glorified free trade area without the capacity to help either poorer citizens or poorer regions within the Community, that it is crucial from an Irish national point of view and the point of view of weaker citizens and regions throughout Europe that there be a substantial increase in the Community budget as a pre-condition to any further enlargement and that the Delors II Package must be accepted in full as a basic minimum? The Taoiseach could do nothing but good for Ireland by indicating that position now well in advance of the Summit.
The Deputy can be assured that the Taoiseach will do nothing but good for Ireland at the Lisbon Summit in respect of the matters he has raised. We have always taken up a position of pushing for an increase in resources in terms of the Community budget and we will continue to maintain that stance.
If what happened last month is anything to go by, I would not be so sure about that.
I call Deputy Taylor-Quinn whose Question No. 3 refers.
Would the Taoiseach agree that recent political developments in Europe could lead to the development of a community of up to 35 members? It is extremely important that, as a member state, we would have a very definite view and set of proposals to put at the Lisbon meeting which will take place in a few weeks time. As President Delors stated, Commission proposals could be a major intellectual shock to the 12 member states. I would like to ask the Taoiseach what views the Government have on the enlargement. It is important that the Irish people know specifically what line the Government are taking. I would like the Taoiseach to tell the House what he will be stating at the meeting in relation to enlargement, considering that he is so familiar with the agenda on that issue.
It would be unrealistic for the Deputy to expect me to comment on a paper on enlargement that I will not see before the meeting.
Has the Taoiseach any thoughts on the matter?
I have, but I will keep them to myself for the moment.
Like the White Paper.
That might be a wise course.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he and his Government colleagues are concerned at this stage about the £6 billion in funds mentioned in the context of the Maastricht Treaty? In view of the nervousness being expressed in Europe at this stage, and some second thoughts expressed by the German community in particular, are the Taoiseach and his Government concerned about the possible watering down of that amount of money? Second, if they are so concerned, does the Taoiseach intend to take any initiative with other Heads of State before the Lisbon Summit?
I am aware of the concerns of some member states in relation to the Treaty on European Union. For instance, we are all well aware of the continuing increasing cost of the unification of Germany. One of the reasons the member states found it impossible to accommodate our position in reopening the Treaty was due to the pressures that would be brought to bear and the changes that would be sought. The position is as it would normally be when talking about increasing funds. The larger states usually adopt this type of attitude. It is a negotiating stance and one of which Ireland, Spain, Greece and Portugal have to be very conscious. We must make the best of our negotiating position, as we have done in the past and, I have little doubt, we will do again in the future.
I would like to raise another issue in relation to the agenda for the Lisbon Summit. Has the Taoiseach been following events in Somalia which have been highlighted by recent RTE programmes? Would he consider insisting on having on the Lisbon agenda an emergency package from the European Community to relieve the terrible suffering of the people living in Somalia and the Horn of Africa?
I hesitate to rule the Deputy out of order on a matter appertaining to the country in question——
We are talking about the business to be conducted at Lisbon.
——but it is new subject.
I am asking, in relation to Question No. 2, that this matter be put on the agenda as business to be conducted at Lisbon because it is very important. Not only should we ensure that there is a proper package for Ireland but we must also ensure that there is a proper package also for the starving people.
Somalia is worthy of a separate question.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that he will do everything he can to ensure that that item is on the agenda for Lisbon?
I will consider sympathetically what the Deputy says. We have every sympathy with the problems facing the people of Somalia. When I receive the agenda I will see what can be done.
Arising from the Taoiseach's first response, would he not agree that it is about time he and the Government rose above the benighted bureaucratic advice that the Government should never say anything about their intentions in advance? Would he not agree that here is a perfectly good example of the benefit of setting out your position in advance in that his predecessor was very happy to have the opportunity of tailgating on a Spanish demand during the Maastricht negotiations and that produced a better result for the small countries than would have been achieved by the coy approach the Taoiseach has shown here? Would he not say in advance that there are some things we want from that summit so that he will have a stronger negotiating position?
I expect to go to that summit with a very strong endorsement from the Irish people by a "Yes" vote on the Maastricht referendum. That will be the best boost I can bring to the negotiating table.
If we have a few more days like yesterday that would not be the case.
If the Taoiseach keeps changing his mind he will go backwards even faster.
I would remind the Deputy that I was involved in the negotiations, and in the lead up to them, as well as in the Spanish initiative he talked about, if, as I believe, that is what he is referring to. Our negotiating strategy was even more effective than he is prepared to give us credit for.
The Taoiseach is delighted that——
Nonsense. Behind the scene, I called the four countries together to get the show on the road, and the Deputy knows that.
I assure the Taoiseach that he will not have an easy ride on the EC referendum as he seems to think. Is it not very significant that we are holding this referendum before the Lisbon Summit? I put it to the Taoiseach that we are going to come away empty-handed from that summit and that he is afraid to face the people because of the consequences of that summit.
Balderdash.
The Deputy is not even up to date with the conclusions expected from the Lisbon Summit.
I am fully up to date on the matter.
If he was he would not be making these statements because no final decisions are expected in Lisbon.
He would not learn much here anyway.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he has considered the advisability of ensuring that final decisions would be made on the Delors II Package at the Lisbon Summit? Have the Government considered the situation that would arise, for example, should no conclusion be reached on the package while, at the same time, progress is made on other aspects of the agenda which would make it more difficult for the next Presidency to deliver the Delors Package?
I agree with the Deputy's sentiments that it is desirable to reach as many conclusions as possible at Lisbon rather than during the Presidency thereafter, especially from our point of view because Portugal, who holds the Presidency, would have much more in common with Ireland. We will be striving for as many conclusions as possible at Lisbon but nobody can guarantee that in advance. The Deputy can take it that we will be working towards achieving those objectives.
What about the Taoiseach's good friend on the mainland?
I want to bring this question to finality. We have had a series of questions. The Chair does not wish to delay unduly long on any one question because it is to the detriment of other questions.
Arising from the Taoiseach's reply to Deputy Garland in which he indicated that he does not expect that decisions will be reached at Lisbon on most of the matters concerned, may I ask him when he expects final decisions will be taken on the issue of the Delors II Package? Will it be decided at the Edinburgh Summit or later?
We hope there will be agreement as soon as possible and we will certainly be pushing for it at Lisbon. I am sure the Deputy has read the indications that are emanating in advance of Lisbon. We hope that agreement will be reached as soon as possible so that the additional funds can be put in place when the Structural Funds come to an end.
This passive attitude is not helpful.
Will the Taoiseach be talking to his friend on the mainland before then?