Vol. 427 No. 8
6 Miss Quill asked the Minister for Education the plans, if any, she has to deal with the problems experienced by substitute primary teachers; and her views on claims that the conditions of substitute teachers are worse than that of Spailpíní Fánacha.
Conditions of service for substitute primary teachers have improved substantially in recent years. In January 1990 the daily rate of payment of qualified substitutes was £38. The current rate is £60.22. Since September 1990 salary payments have issued directly to qualified substitutes instead of being issued through the boards of management.
Incremental credit for qualified substitute service has been granted, subject to certain conditions, and my Department has put forward for consideration proposals for the award of pension credit for substitute service. Improvements in the arrangements for processing payment claims are enabling payment to be made more promptly.
This is much better than any spailpíní fánaigh could expect.
In relative terms of course.
I suspect, however, that the Deputy is referring not to the conditions of service of substitute teachers or the arrangements under which substitutes are appointed. Currently, when a teacher is absent ill the principal must look for a qualified person as substitute. In many cases this gives rise to problems for principals in locating a qualified teacher quickly. Accordingly, it has been proposed by the INTO that there should be panels of regularly employed substitute teachers who would be available for assignment immediately as required.
This proposal is being actively examined by my Department in negotiation with the INTO. It has to be said, however, that it has potential cost increasing implications. In a situation where additional money is being sought for a wide range of purposes in the educational system it is obvious that the matter of priorities must be taken into account.
There are practical difficulties relating to how such panels of teachers would operate. There is also the problem that much illness tends to happen in the winter months and to be less at other times in the year. A system of supply panels might be too inflexible to meet this problem. I understand that in Northern Ireland, where a supply panel system has operated for some years, the authorities are considering discontinuing it, in view of difficulties in administering the system, and replacing it with grants to schools.
As I have said, my Department is actively examining the matter and is in negotiation with the INTO about it.
I thank the Minister for her reply. Is she aware that a commitment was given, in the context of the primary review body report, to put in place a system of proper supply panels of substitute teachers for primary schools? As a result of the failure of successive Governments to put such a system in place, the INTO has been driven to call a one-day stoppage on, I think, 25 March in a number of schools. About 12 schools in the Munster region will be affected. Is the Minister aware of this impending one-day stoppage? Is she concerned that thousands of school children will be left without schooling for one day due to the pursuit by teachers of a claim which has in effect, already been conceded by her Department? If so, has she had any recent discussions with the INTO in an effort to avert the stoppage?
I am aware of the matter to which the Deputy has referred, and it has been discussed at meetings with the INTO. The difficulty arose in formulating a practical scheme. I have invited the INTO to talk to my Department so that we will be in a position to put forward to the Department of Finance proposals for a pilot scheme. We have asked that it be put in writing, and this is now being done.
With regard to the administration of supply panels, I am particularly concerned that supply teachers would be qualified. In order to ensure this, there is merit in having teachers on a panel. Of course, we are also moving towards the implementation of the commitment in the Programme for Government to set up local education structures. I am interested in seeing whether it would be easier to administer such a scheme at local education board level than at central office level. I would like to see a pilot scheme put in place before the local education structures are set up and to monitor any difficulties which may arise. This means that we will have had practical experience of the workings of a panel of teachers before the local structures are put in place. We need to look at the operation of such a scheme both in urban and rural areas.
Is the Minister content to see the continuation of the situation where a number of unqualified teachers are working in classrooms every day and carrying out what has best been summed up by the general secretary of the INTO as babysitting duties while qualified teachers remain on the dole? If the Minister is not happy with this situation, will she show some more sense of urgency in putting in place permanent panels on a pilot basis in two or three regions? Can she give a commitment to do this now so as to avert the one-day stoppage by teachers? Four schools in my constituency will be closed for a full day as a result of this stoppage.
I am very concerned about the lack of progress on questions today. The disposal of six questions in 45 minutes is surely most unsatisfactory.
The Minister read out a five-page reply to the first question.
Let us try to expedite matters.
The Minister read out a five-page reply to the first question.
I accept that fully but I have no control over Ministers' replies——
She has no control over them either.
——and far be it from the Ceann Comhairle to interfere with Minister's replies. He takes the view that his obligation is to ensure that Members of this House secure the utmost information, but brevity is also essential.
May I ask the Minister——
Brevity, please.
Does the Minister accept that out of a total of £12 million paid every year to substitute teachers, approximately £3 million is paid to unqualified teachers? To repeat my question——
Repetition is a luxury we cannot afford.
——is the Minister content to allow this situation to continue? Does she accept——
Please, Deputy Quill, obey the Chair at some stage.
I will, but I wish to finish my question. The impending one-day stoppage by teachers is much more urgent than other matters which have been discussed at length. Will the Minister concede that what is being sought by the INTO on a pilot basis would involve no additional cost to the Exchequer this year?
As I said. I am concerned that unqualified teachers are working in schools at present. I think the ballot of INTO members was being carried out when I came into office. The matter was brought to my attention very swiftly and I am now considering the structures for a pilot scheme which can be put in place. This will enable me, after six weeks in office, to respond as quickly as I can to an issue about which the Deputy and I share a common concern.
I am sure the Minister will agree that it is too early in her term of office for a strike involving 60 schools to occur. As the commitment to establish the panels of supply teachers has been in existence in her Department for three years, will the Minister put in place before 25 March, the proposed date of the strike, a pilot scheme for a panel of supply teachers? Will she give an assurance to the House that she will take the necessary steps to prevent this strike going ahead?
Of course, I will take all the steps I can. As I said, the pilot scheme has to be put in writing and this is now being done. I hope matters will be dealt with in such a way that I can respond quickly to any difficulties which may arise.
Does the Minister not accept that the term "pilot schemes" has a rather ominous ring to it in that such schemes tend to become permanent? For example, the school psychological scheme was introduced four years ago and there are two psychologists, one in Dundalk and one in Tipperary, still working on the scheme. Is the Minister aware that outside the pilot areas one-teacher schools have to be closed when the teachers become ill? Unfortunately the same applies when both teachers in a two-teacher school become ill simultaneously. We need a proper panel system immediately and not another series of pilot projects.
I am not afraid to use the term "pilot project" if I am satisfied that a project is being reviewed and it achieves what it set out to do. I have referred to the problems which are being experienced in schools in rural areas. For that reason I have suggested that when a pilot project has been put on paper and is in operation it should not be seen to be used only in large schools with a large number of teachers; the problems in rural areas also need to be addressed. I want to ensure that when the intermediate education structures are put in place we can use the experience and expertise we have gained from the pilot scheme to set up a panel system on a regional or county basis.
