Martin Cullen
Question:7 Mr. Cullen asked the Minister for Education the steps, if any, she has taken to advance gender equity in all aspects of education; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Gender Equity in Education.
The promotion of gender equity is one of the main aims of the educational policy of this Government. The Programme for a Partnership Government 1993-1997 outlines a programme of affirmative action which will be undertaken in the education sector. The action programme will include the following:
—the enhancement of career guidance programmes to include a positive programme to encourage women to enter labour markets traditionally closed to them;
—full range of course options for all students;
—an emphasis in adult education on encouraging women to re-enter the work force;
—the promotion of women's studies in third level;
—a sports policy to encourage the participation of women at every level;
—an adequate and comprehensive system of sex education, appropriate to the maturity of students, at second level.
I have taken a number of initiatives to address gender equity in education and to begin to implement the action programme including:
(a) the establishment of a fund in order to improve career guidance counselling in second level schools — £200,000 has been allocated for the fund in 1993;
(b) increased provision of guidance teachers for second-level schools in the 1993-94 school year. Over 100 schools will benefit from this measure;
(c) the provision of an increase of 11 per cent in the 1993 allocation for the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment (NCCA) which has a special remit to ensure that sexist and sex-stereotyping be eliminated from curricula and to work towards the implementation of gender equity in schools — the increased provision will enable the NCCA to proceed with:
—the reform and restructuring of the primary school curriculum;
—substantial revision of the curriculum and syllabuses at the senior post-primary cycle;
—developing specific aspects of the junior post-primary cycle including civic and social education and technology;
(d) an examination of the existing provision for adult education to identify, inter alia, how it is meeting the educational needs of women;
(e) increased provision of almost 60 per cent in the funding for the adult literacy and community education scheme, bringing the total to £1.57 million — this scheme has brought great benefit to adults, both men and women, who cannot read or write;
(f) increased provision for second chance education and training. The vocational training and opportunities scheme is being expanded by 900 places in 1993 to provide a total of nearly 3,000 places — the total allocation in 1993 for the scheme is £15.5 million approximately. I am also providing a special fund of £300,000 in 1993 to alleviate financial problems of unemployed adults who enrol in second chance education schemes;
(g) I am having the proposals of the Report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women examined in my Department with a view to identifying short term and long term policy implications.
In February this year I launched a skills development workshop at the Marino Institute of Education. The workshop was aimed at women staff members of An Post and my Department who wished to develop supervisory and managerial skills appropriate to their next career stage.
In the context of the preparation of the White Paper on Education I have arranged for gender equity issues to be treated as a matter of priority.
I thank the Minister for her long reply. I have no doubt that the measures she outlined will bear fruit in the years ahead. In the short term I suggest that sometimes difficult problems respond to simple solutions. I am thinking of the hidden curriculum in education. Very often 99 per cent of the teachers in a school are female but the 1 per cent that is male happens to be the principal teacher. That is a powerful educational factor in shaping the minds and aspirations of young people. If we are to remedy the imbalance we ought to start in primary schools. Has the Minister any plan to rectify the matter or to encourage and assist more women to bid for the principalships of schools at primary and second level?
I share the concerns of Deputy Quill. The teaching profession at primary level is predominently female but they represent only 51 per cent of principals appointed at that level. Guidelines on interviewing are laid down by the Employment Equality Agency. Rules and procedures for boards of management have been circulated. A circular was issued as late as October 1991 to remind boards of management of their responsibilities in relation to gender equity in the allocation of teachers to classes. Circulars are probably not enough. Moves within my Department, taking on board the recommendations of the commission, will encourage women to apply for these positions. They certainly are the more represented sex in the teaching profession and they have a huge impact on the next generation. Men must expect to find women in authority without raising an eyebrow.
The Minister's replies running to three or four pages are an abuse of Question Time. That type of filibustering reply is not acceptable. The Minister has inherited it and it is common practice but it will have to stop.
That is not fair.
In urging more women to apply for principalships the Minister is not addressing the problem. Women are applying but they are suffering discrimination. Of 15,460 female teachers, 1,400 are principals; of 4,683 male teachers 1,888 are principals. Of 65 community schools, only three have female principals.
The Deputy should seek information rather than impart it.
I would ask to be permitted to outline in as much detail as possible what I intend and my concerns as an incoming Minister for Education. I acknowledge that a wide spread of questions has been asked and a lot of knowledge has been sought, but I would ask the Deputy to bear with me and to allow me to spell out for the benefit of Deputies the concerns I am highlighting.
This is abuse.
I make that point to you, a Cheann Comhairle.
It is a far, far better thing that a Minister be accused of giving too much information rather than too little.
I am aware of the statistics regarding women in positions of authority. If they believe they are being discriminated against, I hope they will use all the support structures to appeal these decisions. I am concerned to have more women in positions of authority. Moves are being made at all levels within the teaching profession, structures are being put in place in my Department and work is being done in the Department of Equality and Law Reform and I hope we will very quickly see the results.
Of the six specific commitments regarding gender equity given in the Programme for Government, five were quoted verbatim by the Minister in her reply and one of them, namely, the commitment to full curriculum choice for all students, has been rephrased by a watered down reference to a range of course options. Is it still intended by the Government to provide full curriculum choice for all students? When can all students in all second level schools expect to have full curriculum choice?
I could just read verbatim from the Programme for Government which I have here. Perhaps I will be allowed a slightly longer answer the next time I am answering. I do not need to read this out. I can circulate it but I would not accept at all that there is any dilution of my commitment on subject choices. I can, of course, give much more detail on the work that is going on on subject choice in the Department, in relation to gender equity in primary schools, the working group in text books, inservice training for teachers and the pilot schemes that have now encouraged over 1,000 girls to take part in science and physics courses.
That was not my question.
The research and development subhead in my own Department has been increased to £202,000 from £185,000 in 1992, an increase of £17,000.
That has nothing to do with my question.
I am totally committed to the six points spelled out in the Programme for Government.
When?
This is a four-year Programme for Government and I am sure the Deputy will have every opportunity to come to me again during my term of office and I will be delighted to detail the progress in each of these areas.
I am calling Deputy John Browne and I am hoping to call Deputy Quill for a brief question.
A brief answer might be more in line.
It is not for the Chair to interfere with any Minister in respect of his or her replies. This I cannot and will not do. Indeed, I have no function in the matter, thank goodness.
(Interruptions.)
When it was left to the gentlemen it was all right.
That is a terrible remark.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Does the Minister share my concern about gender equity in view of the fact that seven men students applied to attend the teacher training college out of a total of 100 about two years ago and there were 13 out of 100 this year? Forgetting what happened in the past, is the Minister worried about the imbalance in gender equity at primary school that is going to occur? In view of the fact that someone forecast that male primary teachers would be a tourist attraction, might the Minister seriously consider putting a preservation order on male primary teachers now?
As it was suggested on the other side of the House that things were better when it was left to gentlemen, I would say that when it is left to this Minister for Education I am concerned that the role models that are presented to our children, both boys and girls, at primary level reflect the society in which we live. Perhaps there is something to be said for looking for positive discrimination in certain areas. I am fully committed to equality for whichever sex. There has been an upturn again in the number of male applicants to the teacher training colleges and that is probably a reflection of the high regard in which the public hold the teaching profession.
The Labour Party used gender quotas to great advantage within their party. Is the Minister considering introducing gender quotas in the context of posts of responsibility in primary and secondary education?
I have already outlined some areas where I expect there will be an improvement. This programme is emanating not only from my Department but from right across the teaching profession. I expect to see results and therefore——
Will the Minister answer the question?
——there will probably be no necessity to introduce gender quotas if the methods we have put in place are successful.
That means no.
In relation to the difficulties being experienced by women getting promotion to posts of principal, will the Minister accept that part of the difficulty may very well lie in the composition of interview boards? Will the Minister agree that in many cases interview boards are totally male bodies? A number of vocational education committees throughout the country, including the vocational education committee in the city of Cork, are totally male bodies. Will the Minister acknowledge that that may be part of the problem and, that being so, what action does she intend to take to remedy that part of the problem?
I would not like it suggested that because interview boards consist of all males that they would naturally discriminate. That certainly would concern me.
Dog does not eat dog, you know, Minister.
Because of the composition of the boards of management of primary schools which includes parents and must include a mother it would be unlikely that there would be no women on an interview board. The Deputy referred to schools that are in a different structure from the primary school one. I would ask the Deputy to bear with me as we further discuss the intermediate structures and the tasks they will be assigned. I can assure the Deputy that I am committed to a voice for parents, and at least half the parents in this country are women. I will move forward to presenting in a public way a balanced representation of the society in which we are rearing our children to adulthood.