Vol. 427 No. 8
8 Miss Flaherty asked the Minister for Education the plans, if any, she has to change the method of insuring schools to assist in reducing costs along the lines operated by a large educational authority (details supplied) in Britain.
73 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Education if she will review the present situation where schools under the aegis of her Department contract their own insurance arrangements, with the loss of benefits that could be obtained on insurance premia if a global package for schools was obtained by her Department; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8 and 73 together. The situation in relation to the educational authority in Britain is quite different from that operating here in the case of most kinds of school. The educational authority in question owns and operates over 1,000 schools and itself directly deals with insurance matters. This is not the case here.
In our situation, it is a matter for the managerial authorities of individual primary, secondary and vocational schools to ensure that adequate insurance is effected on school property and against public liability.
The grants paid by my Department towards the current cost of schools may be used for this purpose. In the case of model schools and of community and comprehensive schools, the position is similar to that of State property. It might be that matters such as assisting with insurance arrangements would be appropriate for an intermediate tier in the context of the establishment of local education structures. Even in Britain, however, the central Government Department is not involved and it would be very undesirable in our situation that my Department should become directly involved in insurance transactions and the legal and administrative apparatus that would be entailed. It is, however, open to school authorities, or their representative associations, to take such initiatives as the collective negotiation of insurance premiums with a view to reducing costs. This is, in effect, happening at present in that most of the primary and secondary schools are insured with the same company and the majority of vocational schools are covered by the one insurance company.
I thank the Minister for her information about the difference between the systems in Ireland and Britain. I am absolutely aware that they are very different systems indeed and that it will be some time before we have an education authority which might be able to undertake similar roles to those in Britain.
Does the Minister not accept that insurance costs are one of the major costs that the boards of management of schools have to meet? Certainly in my constituency, where there is a large number of disadvantaged schools, insurance costs take up to 70 or 80 per cent of their own local fund raising and eats up what might otherwise be available for improving facilities in the school. It is in that context that I was asking the Minister to consider a new scheme based on the British experience where a central scheme has substantilly reduced the cost there.
I must thank the Deputy for making available to me the information about the scheme she is referring to. The rise in capitation grants can be earmarked, to some extent, for the ongoing management of the school if schools wish to do that. We have studied the companies that are actually covering the primary, secondary and vocational schools. The figures that were supplied to our Department show that they are operating school insurance schemes at a loss. We have not found that it would be particularly cost effective to implement a scheme such as the one in Strathclyde and without encumbering the Department of Education with the administration of the scheme.
In the Strathclyde area the authority operates the scheme for a very large number of schools. No matter how large the task or how many the responsibilities, I would not like the energy, the facilities and the work being done by the Department of Education to be further encumbered by administration. I shall certainly examine the matter, particularly in relation to the administration of the scheme, and I thank the Deputy for making the information available. On departmental figures, it appears that there are losses in insurance. If it were possible to administer the scheme more globally without asking the Department to take the full brunt of the administration through the intermediate structures, I would certainly consider that.
In the absence of any other structure between the schools and the Department, the Department is the only body to which one can look for any central improvement. I welcome the Minister's indication that she will reconsider the matter. Would she consider regional educational boards in the operation of such a scheme?
As I have said, I will consider this matter. It will have to be examined in the context of their Irish education system, which is, of course, slightly different from the Scottish system. The concern is that moneys that are available be expended in the interest of the children and that administrative and insurance costs be kept to a minimum.
