Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Apr 1993

Vol. 429 No. 7

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Government Policy on Travellers.

Mary Harney

Question:

9 Miss Harney asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform when he proposes to establish the task force to assist him in discharging his responsibilities for the implementation of Government policy on travellers; if he will give details of its proposed terms of reference; the number of persons that will be appointed; the method by which they will be appointed; whether it is proposed to establish it on a statutory basis; the resources, if any, which will be made available to the task force; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Richard Bruton

Question:

24 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if he proposees to introduce a national plan for travelling people to include accommodation needs, education, health and the protection of their ethnic identity as requested by Dublin County Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Alan Shatter

Question:

27 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform the functions, if any, he has in relation to travelling people as compared to the functions vested in the Minister for the Environment.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

37 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform whether he has conducted any investigation into the trading activities of travellers.

Pat Rabbitte

Question:

41 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if he will give details of his Department's responsibilities in regard to members of the travelling community; the policy initiatives, if any, he is planning in this area; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Desmond J. O'Malley

Question:

45 Mr. O'Malley asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform the way in which he intends to ensure equality between all local authorities in the provision of both temporary and permanent halting sites for travellers.

Liz McManus

Question:

98 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if he has satisfied himself that there is sufficient legal redress against discrimination against travellers; his views as to whether a protection against discrimination should be developed to ensure that travellers are not discriminated against; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Robert Molloy

Question:

100 Mr. Molloy asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform the reason for the delay in establishing the proposed taskforce on travellers' rights; and the name of the chairperson of the task force.

Mr. Taylor

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 24, 27, 37, 41, 45, 98 and 100 together.

Under the Programme for a Partnership Government I have been entrusted with responsibility for articulating and co-ordinating the implementation of Government policy in relation to travellers. My Department will not be involved in the provision of services directly to travellers, it will be responsible for planning and co-ordinating the work of the other Departments, local authorities and State agencies in providing services to travellers.

As indicated in the programme, I propose to set up a task force, which will be chaired by a member of the Oireachtas, to monitor implementation of measures in favour of travellers. The task force can help to ensure that a fair share of the burden of providing halting sites is undertaken by local authorities and also within each local authority area. It will also ensure that appropriate, co-ordinated planning is undertaken in relation to Government aims generally.

With a view to setting up the task force, I have had preliminary discussions with a number of organisations which comprise and represent travellers. Discussions have also taken place with statutory bodies which provide services for travellers.

It is clearly evident that travellers experience many forms of discrimination and encounter many obstacles, especially in terms of access to accommodation, education and certain social services. It is my intention to address these problems. Towards that end, I am exploring the possibility of bringing forward legislation to prohibit discriminatory treatment of travellers.

At the same time, it would be naive to expect that the enactment of such legislation would, of itself, remove longstanding social prejudices or change people's attitudes in relation to travellers generally.

Certainly, the Government can give a lead through legislative measures but much has to be done to break down barriers through non-legislative action. Past experience has shown that this whole issue has to be approached in a sensitive and carefully planned and balanced manner.

It is my intention to invite the task force to draw up proposals and recommendations in this regard. Towards this end, I shall provide it with wide terms of reference. Its membership will comprise travellers, travellers' support groups, elected local councillors and individuals who have experience and expertise in promoting the welfare of travellers.

I have committed myself to further discussions with relevant interests in drawing up the terms of reference for the task force and selecting its membership. I hope to be in a position to engage in that process shortly. Pending these discussions, it would not be appropriate for me, at this stage, to specify my own proposals, beyond the broad outline which I have given, in relation to the precise terms of reference, composition, structure, role, functions and budget of the proposed task force. I have noted the proposal from Dublin County Council for a national plan and I will ask the task force to give early consideration to it.

I have not conducted any investigation into the trading activities of travellers, nor have I received any representations in this regard. The Minister for Enterprise and Employment has responsibility for the regulation of casual trading.

Miss Harney

Will the Minister agree that his role seems to be one of articulating policy and that it is still the responsibility of someone else to implement the decisions? Does he agree that this is unsatisfactory and that leaving responsibility for this matter with local authorities will solve nothing? Can he say how the responsibilities and terms of reference of the task force will differ from the terms of reference given to the Travelling People Review Body set up in 1981 by the then Government who reported in 1983? What has changed in the meantime to require a new task force? Is it intended to set up the task force on a statutory basis? Will the Minister confirm that the references in the Programme for Government to the task force having responsibility for monitoring and pursuing the implementation of Government policy will be put into effect? If that is the case, what exactly will he be doing while the task force is implementing Government policy?

Mr. Taylor

I envisage that the task force will be set up on a non-statutory basis, at least initially. If it is found necessary to have it put on a statutory basis at a later stage that could certainly be considered. I cannot say yet in what respect the terms of reference of the task force will differ from those of the review body as they have not yet been determined. The terms of reference will be wide-ranging and the task force will be given the necessary powers to examine the situation in the broadest possible way, to make recommendations and to monitor, with me and my Department, the implementation of those policies. The task force will have very important functions and will be given the necessary back-up including a budget, as provided for in the Programme for Government. It will make recommendations and act as a monitoring body to ensure the implementation of those recommendations and that the interests and needs of travellers are progressed in accordance with their findings and recommendations from to time.

Deputy Harney rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

A brief question, Deputy.

Miss Harney

Does the Minister envisage that the task force will sit on a permanent basis or will it be a temporary task force? Does he agree that there is a need to have members of the settled community on the task force? Why has the 1983 report of the review body not been implemented? Will he agree that until such time as a Minister of the Government has full responsibility for the designation of sites there will not be any change in the present situation in which many families are forced to live on the side of roads because local politicians will not make the necessary decisions? Establishing a task force that will simply report will not solve the problem which is the need to provide accommodation for travellers on a national and equitable basis.

Mr. Taylor

I agree with the objectives and needs described by Deputy Harney. The reason for establishing the task force is to advise and suggest solutions to those issues and to consider what should be the relationship between local authorities and my Department. Clearly the ultimate work on the ground — subject to what the task force may say — must be left with local authorities who have the officials, engineers, road, sewerage and water experts and so on necessary to provide halting sites and to service and administer them. The key issues raised by Deputy Harney should be addressed by the task force. It will be my responsibility, and that of the task force, on an ongoing basis, to ensure they are dealt with and that the necessary moneys and powers are given to my Department and local authorities for that purpose.

Miss Harney

Will it be permanent or temporary?

Mr. Taylor

It will be ongoing — it will not be a once-off — until the plan the task force devises is well under way.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are in some difficulty, as will be evident to Members, in disposing of the remaining two questions. However, if I can be assured that they will be responded to by way of one brief supplementary question in each instance I will call them.

Mr. Shatter

If it would help, Sir, on my Question No. 10 all of the same issues will arise on a later question which we will reach. I would be quite happy not to have my Question No. 10 taken now.

An Ceann Comhairle

On that basis I will now call Question No. 11.