I support the Bill. I have a particular interest in asylum seekers and refugees because my constituency contains one of the principal points of entry to this country, Shannon Airport. I have seen some harrowing cases in my constituency. I have seen people subjected to a great deal of stress and mental torture, interred without trial and sent to jail in Limerick. I have raised this matter in the House on many occasions. I have been in touch with the aliens section in the Department of Justice and spoken to officers in the office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. The current legal position here is deficient and Deputy Shatter's Bill makes an honest effort to meet the demands required today. On numerous occasions I received support from Deputies in the mid-west region in this regard and Deputy Kemmy was particularly vocal regarding particular cases.
I am disappointed that the Government has now decided to oppose this measure. As Deputy Shatter requested last night it could have accepted the spirit of the Bill, allow it to go through Second Stage and introduce its own amendments on Committee Stage. However, it chose not to do that. The most disappointing aspect of the debate this evening is that the Minister seems to be of the opinion that there is nothing wrong and that people were not interned without trial.
I wish to give a recent example of a case concerning an Iraqi, Dr. Laith Tappouni, a medical doctor who, for reasons of conscience, left Iraq. We are all aware of the noble democrat in command there, Saddam Hussein, who is known to treat people very humanely — he cuts off their hands and heads — and deals with the Opposition in a very democratic manner. The doctor arrived in Shannon Airport seeking asylum and was sent to Limerick Prison for two months. This man had a good command of English, he sent a handwritten letter to me asking for my assistance. I made representations to the Department on his behalf. Unfortunately for Dr. Tappouni these events occurred during the general election and the negotiations which followed it. People took the view that when the new Government was formed this man's case would be dealt with properly and considered in full. However, Amnesty International had to go to court to seek legal redress in this case. It is only when the Department of Justice is threatened with legal redress that positive action is taken.
I do not know whether these cases occur as a result of the aliens division being understaffed. I was assured by the Minister that the aliens division is fully aware of the position. However, when the aliens division decides to deport people to their own country it very often occurs on a Saturday or a Sunday when it cannot be contacted. That difficulty constantly arises. It is unbelievable that a Minister from the west could make the claims she did in the House tonight. I sympathise with the people in the aliens division because on reading the Official Report, the current Minister for Enterprise and Employment, Deputy Quinn, put down a question regarding the Department's aliens division on 15 October 1992. The then Minister for Justice, Mr. Flynn, as part of an extensive reply, stated:
Arising from that meeting, a number of areas were identified where it was considered that, on the face of it, a detailed examination could lead to improvements.
Deputy Flynn was unwilling to concede that anything was wrong in his Department but at least he admitted, following a meeting, that some sections of the aliens division required to be examined. However, the performance of the former Minister, Deputy Burke, left much to be desired because he expected the aliens division to deal with all problems regarding asylum seekers that arose while Ireland held the EC Presidency. I recall an unfortunate case in Shannon Airport where a Somalian applied for asylum. When I spoke to the Department on his behalf I was told that no officer from the aliens division was available. Those officers were all required to be in Dublin Castle where European legislation was being discussed and the Minister had requested their presence. I sympathise with civil servants who have to do their duty according to the Minister. No Minister for Justice should expect any understaffed group to continue in this fashion.
I am disappointed that officers in the aliens division in the Department of Justice have not prevailed upon the Minister to accept this Bill because it is in their interest to proceed with it in this manner. I am surprised that the Minister, as a Fianna Fáil Deputy, would prevaricate because at the end of his reply the previous Minister, Mr. Flynn — this is the kernel of the matter, where the Irish are still looking over their shoulders at the British who have been gone since 1922 — stated:
However, vigilance against illegal immigration, particularly by those who would wish to use Ireland as an easy back-door to other European destinations, will continue to be necessary.
Many of the problems in this regard do not rest with the Department of Justice, I believe that the heavy hand of the Department of Foreign Affairs is involved as well as people in other countries who insist that we change our attitude to asylum seekers and that Ireland should not give a lead — as Deputy Shatter is trying to do in this Bill — by putting the United Nations Convention into law and expressing what was agreed in 1985. People hold the view that we should not lead, that we should be subservient to the views of the British, Germans or French. Why will the Minister not admit the influence of the Department of Foreign Affairs? If that is not the cure, who is influencing the Department of Justice in these matters?
Many people here cannot understand why people seeking asylum are put in jail. Immigration officers in the Shannon area do not have a choice in this regard because there is no provision for the reception of people in this position. Immigration officers are expected to work in terrible conditions and it is even worse when they have to deal with families. Recently, there was an application for asylum by a Yugoslavian family, they spent a night in Shannon and were then sent to the Garda barracks where they spent the next night. I almost expected the adults to be committed to jail and was concerned about the children but, thankfully, a humane approach was adopted.
I appeal to the Minister and her officials to make a realistic appraisal of the current position in regard to the acceptance of asylum seekers here. As indicated by a previous speaker the Red Cross have been very generous, particularly in Ennis, and have made strenuous efforts to ensure that these people are well cared for, that stress is diminished as much as possible and that there is liaison between the Red Cross and the Department of Justice. The Red Cross do significant work in that area.
Greater attention must be paid to proper liaison between the Department of Health and the health boards in regard to the provision of supplementary welfare. We should not rely totally on the resources available to the Red Cross for fear of exhausting them. We have an obligation to provide supplementary welfare for applicants, but we have not honoured it. When the Irish Red Cross had exhausted its funds and asylum seekers saught refuge here, they were hurriedly deported. I am not sure if people were deported to their countries of origin and subsequently lost their lives. I am not aware of any such incident. Fears have been expressed that people who were deported to their countries of origin were persecuted on their return. In the case of the eminent doctor I referred to earlier, Dr. Tappouni, he had the advantage of speaking English. There were also refugees from Sri Lanka and Somalia for whom translators were not available when they arrived at Shannon Airport.
I visited a man in Limerick jail who had suffered persecution and whose family had been shot in the civil war in Somalia. He had escaped and wished to travel to the promised land, the United States or Canada. He did not want to come to this country; he wanted to get work. He was an asylum seeker in transit, but he was imprisoned here for two or three months. I made appropriate noises in the Dáil and the Ministers assured me there would be no internment without trial. But that applicant was interned without trial. Eventually, Mr. Bob Eager, a solicitor for Amnesty International, elicited the applicant's true story through an interpreter employed by the University in Limerick.
I had been in contact with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in London and he conveyed to me the details that had been despatched from Dublin. I am sure those immigration officers took this information in good faith. People fleeing from tyrannical regimes view people in power, who ask questions — for example, policemen and immigration officers — with fear and they will not give truthful answers. It is important to have an independent person who will reassure applicants that the truth will be conveyed to the United Nations High Commissioner.
That is why Deputy Shatter introduced this Bill. The Government had plenty of time to introduce its own Bill. The Minister for Justice, Deputy Geoghegan-Quinn, promised to introduce legislation in this regard some time ago, but it did not come to pass. Our party had been examining this matter for a period and it was time for Deputy Shatter to introduce this Bill. I consider it is being introduced six years too late. I sought its introduction in 1986, when my party were in Government, and in 1987 and later years.
As a humanitarian gesture we should have a proper reception area in Shannon Airport to cater for refugees from Eastern Europe and other countries who may be fleeing civil war and may wish to travel to the United States or Canada. We should have a tribunal and our dealings with refugees should be transparent and above board. I received many letters from Amnesty International in Galway and I am sure, having listened to the Minister's contribution tonight they will be amused. I hope they will send the same number of letters to the Minister as they sent me protesting in regard to her attitude on this matter. I hope they took note of what she said this evening when she denied there was any particular difficulty.
The Minister indicated some acceptance of the tribunal proposed in the Bill. I would have proposed a simpler court over which a local district justice could have presided together with officers from the Departments of Enterprise and Employment, Law Reform and Justice. I proposed that a group of three independents be made available in Shannon Airport; but Deputy Shatter, having considered this proposal, felt that the Department of Justice would not accept any group who did not have some legal basis. We did not propose the tribunal for any reason of pomp, we could have had an ombudsman but we wished to put an appeal system in place that would have a legal basis and that would be accepted by the Government side.
The problem of refugees will not be dealt with easily owing to the position in Europe, particularly the civil war in Yugoslavia. There was a curious change in national policy after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Prior to that time asylum seekers at Shannon Airport had no difficulty in travelling on to the United States or Canada. At that time the Canadians welcomed Iron Curtain citizens with open arms. Shannon Airport is only a transit area and there were no major difficulties. But following the upheavals in Eastern Europe there was an immediate change in attitude on the other side of the Atlantic. There was also a change in attitude here. That arose because we became very friendly with the authorities in Poland. I recall a number of Polish refugees who sought asylum here, having fled Poland because they were conscientious objectors and did not wish to be inducted into the army under compulsory conscription. They had a particular difficulty because they were Jehovah Witnesses and they thought that the authorities here would not be sympathetic to their case. I took up their case, even though they do not participate in elections, as Deputy Ryan is aware. However, although I pursued their case, they were eventually sent back to Poland. Those people had relatives in Canada and had spent all their means on that flight. The Red Cross in Ennis, Tony McEnery, his wife and family and the people in Dublin, looked after them very well. In spite of the High Court case — Amnesty pleaded their case — the Government insisted on sending these people back to their own country.
I am concerned at the Minister's interpretation of the Bill. She said that the UN Convention defines a refugee as a person who has a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, etc. I could never understand how Jehovah Witnesses, who were conscientious objectors, were not deemed to have a well-founded fear of persecution. One or two of these people who are living in Poland still write to me. They are always praising the hospitality of Clare people. Deputy McDowell would know all about that. The people of Clare are very hospitable and the Government's attitude to asylum seekers goes against what we believe.
With one or two exceptions, Fianna Fáil has never looked sympathetically at legislation introduced by the Fine Gael Party or any measure introduced by another party. This has been its tradition for the 60 years it has been in power.