Vol. 434 No. 6
8 Ms McManus asked the Minister for Justice the total number of gardaí diverted to Thurles, County Tipperary, for the Féile '93 concert; the areas from which they were drawn; the steps, if any, that were taken to provide adequate policing in those areas from which the gardaí were withdrawn; the total cost of the Garda operation arising from Féile; the contribution, if any, the organisers made to the cost; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
The responsibility for maintaining law and order in public places which includes the vicinity of large scale sporting and recreational events, such as major GAA matches, soccer and rugby internationals, concerts and community festivals, is a matter for the Garda Síochána.
A total of 319 members of the Garda Síochána were involved in the policing of the Féile '93 concert in Thurles. The gardaí were drawn from all over the country so as to minimise the effect on policing arrangements in the areas from which they came. These areas included the following Garda divisions: Tipperary, Carlow-Kildare, Clare, Cork East and West, Kerry, Laois-Offaly, Limerick, Longford-Westmeath, Roscommon, Galway, Waterford-Kilkenny, Wexford and the five divisions in the Dublin Metropolitan area. I should point out that many of the 319 gardaí on duty at the Féile would not have been rostered for duty in their own districts at that time and therefore there was no loss in those areas.
Ten gardaí were employed on non-public duty inside Semple Stadium during the concert at a cost of £13,309 to the organisers. The total cost of the Garda operation was almost £120,000. This figure includes overtime, allowances and travel and subsistence payments to members of the Force. Salary costs are not included as they would be incurred in any event. About £40,000 of the total cost will accrue to the Exchequer through income tax deductions.
Will the Minister put a figure on the number of gardaí who were involved in policing at Féile '93 who would otherwise have been rostered for duty in the normal way on that day? Will she accept that of the 319 gardaí assigned to Thurles on that day, many were plundered from their normal Garda divisions and work, leaving those areas underpoliced on a busy bank holiday weekend? Will she indicate what arrangements were made in those divisions to substitute the gardaí assigned to Thurles?
Unfortunately, I do not have the precise information which Deputy Gilmore requests, but I may be able to send it to him. The information I have from Garda management is that many of the 319 gardaí assigned to Thurles would not have been rostered for duty on the day in question and that therefore there was no reduction in manpower resources in their divisions.
In relation to events such as Féile '93, I am considering seriously requesting the promoters to make a substantial contribution towards the policing provided by gardaí at such events. That would not only involve sporting events, but many cultural and entertainment events, community festivals and so on. That area is difficult to quantify because it is difficult to decide what one should charge the organisers. For example, where a large proportion of the proceeds from such events go to charity, is one entitled to charge — or how is one entitled to charge — the promoters? This is a complex area about which I have received many representations and I am considering the matter carefully at present.
Will the Minister accept that if she goes down the road of charging promoters for the policing of such events, promoters will have to assess their own Garda requirements and for financial reasons will obviously employ fewer than the local superintendent believes apposite? Bearing in mind that approximately £120,000 was the gross cost in respect of Féile '93 and that approximately £40,000 will accrue to the Exchequer through income tax deductions, which is another day's work, will the Minister agree that there was probably a large scale increase in expenditure on VAT which on an occasion such as Féile '93 would recoup a significant portion of the cost to the Exchequer? I would caution the Minister that if she gets into the business of regulating large scale events she will create a massive bureaucracy to doubtful effect.
Deputy McDowell's comments are logical and those are the main areas about which I am concerned. However, because I received a large number of representations, I should at least examine the possibility as a matter of courtesy. I accept it is difficult to quantify and I do not want to bring about a situation where crowd control is not enforced. The Department of Education, through its sports section, will be implementing the report of the Hamilton Committee. As Deputy McDowell stated, we must be careful when introducing any system of payment by the organisers of any events to ensure that we do not create cumbersome bureaucracy. Also, we would have to consider seriously the level of charge and the types of events to which such charges would apply. How would the charge be made? Would it be made by a levy on tickets, by VAT or some other way? It is a serious issue and deserves consideration.
I compliment the Minister on her grasp of this complex issue. I have a particular interest in this event. Young people are entitled to be entertained. Will the Minister agree it is essential that all forms of public entertainment be properly supervised and that the gardaí have a central role in this task? I am sure the Minister will join with me in complimenting the gardaí under the professional guidance of Chief Superintendent Jim McHugh and Superintendent Peter Griffin——
Is the Deputy going to name the 319 gardaí involved?
——for their professional, skilful and confident management of the event. Most big events are held in Dublin and it is important that the gardaí have the capacity to respond to the policing needs of a major event held outside the Pale. Is the Minister aware that the organisers of the event had 407 security personnel on duty at a cost of £91,000, £13,000 was paid for the services of the gardaí on duty within the stadium and the organsers paid £52,000 to cover the total outlay of Thurles Urban District Council for that event?
The Deputy has given enough information.
They are very impressive figures.
I am delighted Deputy Lowry declared his personal vested interest in this area. As a mother of a young teenager who went to Féile last year, I must compliment the organisers. I agree with Deputy Lowry that we must compliment the 319 gardaí and the management team who provided excellent policing for the event. It is important that young people be entertained. We were all young once and we want to ensure our young people have access to proper facilities. We also want to ensure that sporting, musical or large entertainment events are spread around the country and that obstacles are not put in the way of allowing promoters organise such events. This is a matter in regard to which representations have been received in the Department and it deserves my serious consideration, but I caution Members that there are difficulties and pitfalls involved which I am sure they accept and, therefore, we must be careful.
Regarding the Minister's consideration of policy in relation to policing of major events such as this, will she accept there is an additional cost to the financial cost outlined, the cost borne by those areas and communities from which the police have been taken in order to provide the policing service for the event?
The Deputy has already made that point.
In considering this matter, will the Minister agree as a matter of policy and principle that the policing of major events in future will not be carried out by taking police off normal policing duties in other parts of the country and exposing those areas to increased crime, particularly as in this case——
The Deputy has already made that point and we are having an element of repetition.
It is my understanding that Garda management have been insistent that, in so far as it is possible, gardaí rostered for policing duty, such as that in Féile '93, would be gardaí who would not normally be rostered for duty in their area and they try to ensure that is the case.
That does not happen.
I did not have the figures for Deputy Gilmore earlier in relation to how many of the 319 gardaí on duty might have been rostered for duty in their area, nor would I be able to quantify what the loss of those men and women might have involved for those areas. However, I share the Deputy's concern if it is the case that members who were rostered for duty in areas of particularly high incidences of crime were rostered for duty elsewhere during a large entertainment or sporting event. I understand Garda management policy has always been that the duty should be assigned to men and women who are not rostered for duty in their area in so far as that is possible.
Will the Minister bear in mind that this event was attended by people from all parts of the island and not just by those who live within the State? This event provided entertainment for people who do have access to such an entertaining event in their areas, particularly people living in Northern Ireland. They spent a large amount of money at the event and this benefited the local economy.
I accept the Deputy's point. Deputy Lowry in his supplementary question made that clear. I would like to encourage promoters of events such as Féile '93, to continue to organise these events and ensure policing is provided, by members of the Garda and private security people employed by the promoters. I do not want to dampen anybody's enthusiasm or depress young people's entertainment, regardless of the part of the island from which they come. However, I must seriously consider the various representations made in the light of the difficulties and pitfalls involved in organising such events.
