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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 4 Nov 1993

Vol. 435 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Funding of Culture and Heritage.

Frances Fitzgerald

Question:

1 Ms F. Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht if, in view of the fact that, under the 1989-1993 Operational Programme for Tourism, culture and heritage received 26.3 per cent of the funds allocated to the tourism industry and in view of the historically high level of funding received by arts and culture in the National Development Plan, 1994-1999 claimed by him, he will give the percentage by which the funding of arts, culture and heritage increased as a percentage of the funding allocated to tourism; and his view of the economy for the arts as outlined in the National Development Plan 1994-1999.

Bernard Allen

Question:

14 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht the areas in which, excluding tourism, that arts and culture constitute a significant part of the Government's overall job creation strategy.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 14 together.

While the figure quoted by the Deputy in respect of culture and heritage expenditure under the last plan — 26.3 per cent — broadly reflects the initial forecasts for such expenditure under the Operational Programme for Tourism 1989-93, it is not possible at this stage to provide the Deputy with the initial forecast of total culture and heritage expenditure under the next National Development Plan covering the years 1994-99. This is because the figure quoted by the Deputy for the last plan included expenditure by Bord Fáilte and SFADCo on culture and heritage, whereas no decisions have yet been taken on the budgets to be applied by those two agencies to these categories of expenditure under the next plan. To compare like with like, therefore, it is necessary to deduct the Bord Fáilte and SFADCo expenditure from the initial forecast of the last plan and compare the balance with the sums assigned to my Department under the next plan. This calculation shows that, whereas £42.6 million, or 14.2 per cent of the total operational programme expenditure, was initially forecasted for non-Bord Fáilte and SFADCo expenditure on culture and heritage under the last plan, the figures assigned to me under the next plan are £139 million or 21 per cent of total forecast operational programme expenditure. I think the Deputy will agree with my contention that these are historically high levels of expenditure, in real and percentage terms.

As for my views on the economy for the arts under the next plan, I am pleased that the plan, for the first time, goes far beyond the provisions of the last plan in catering for the national cultural institutions, in facilitating a capital programme for the arts and in assigning responsibility to me for the funding of some elements of cultural tourism activities which would be promoted by local authorities. As I already indicated to the Deputy, these figures do not take account of the budgets to be applied by Bord Fáilte and SFADCo to culture and heritage projects under the next plan. For her information, however, I can say that this element of expenditure amounted to £36 million in the initial forecasted expenditure and some £68.5 million in the current forecasted outcome for the last plan.

The significance of all this is that the £139 million assigned to me under the Tourism Operational Programme for arts, culture and heritage activities, with the £16 million assigned to me for the development of the film industry under the Industry Operational Programme, will place the activities of my Department squarely in the centre of this Government's overall economic and social strategies. Arts, culture and heritage activities will no longer be on the margin of Government priorities. On the contrary, as envisaged in our Programme for a Partnership Government 1993-1997, these activities will now be part of the Government's job creation strategy, in recognition of the fact that the cost of creating a job in the arts is considerably less than in any other sector of the economy.

I should add that also there will continue to be a significant element of expenditure under the Votes for my Department — mainly of a current nature — which will be additional to the provisions in the National Development Plan and will serve to contribute to the Government's job creation strategy. I refer, in particular, to the sums allocated annually to the cultural institutions of the State — the National Museum, National Gallery, National Library, National Archives, Irish Museum of Modern Art, National Concert Hall, National Heritage Council and the Chester Beatty Library, as well as to An Chomhairle Ealaíon. There is a significant amount of research analysis throughout Europe to demonstrate that cultural institutions constitute a major attraction to visitors. Ireland is no exception to this trend, which obviously has spin-off effects in terms of job creation and significant value added to the economy. Moreover, an analysis carried out by An Chomhairle Ealaíon in 1992 indicated that, for every £1 of grant-aid it received in 1990, arts organisations managed to generate a further £1.80, which indicates that An Chomhairle's funding represents only some 35 per cent of the turnover of arts organisations. Applying this indicator, it is reasonable to say that the £11.5 million which the Government allocated to An Chomhairle Ealaíon this year will have generated some £33 million of activity by arts organisations throughout the country.

I intend in the coming years to examine the possibilities for job creation in the cultural industries sector, that is the commercial as distinct from the subvented activities which have a strong cultural or artistic profile. The music industry and the book publishing industry are instances where there are opportunities for job creation which will have to be explored.

However, this country is very short of detailed information and statistics specific to the cultural industries in Ireland. A considerable amount of investigation will have to be undertaken, therefore, to identify the precise nature of long term sustainable jobs which might follow from expansion in these areas. Where opportunities in the cultural industries arise in the short term, my Department intends to establish formal links with Forbairt to advance these proposals within the framework of indigenous industrial development in an integrated and cost effective manner.

In the meantime this week saw the inauguration of a significant initiative for the film industry, with the establishment of a special committee consisting of my Department, the Film Board, RTE, the IDA, An Bord Tráchtála, FÁS, Údarás na Gaeltachta and An Comhairle Ealaíon. This committee is charged with the promotion and co-ordination of the film sector in order to maximise the opportunities for job creation in this area also.

I thank the Minister for his detailed reply. I agree with the Minister in terms of the potential for employment and job creation in the area of arts and culture. That has been well documented internationally and we should follow in that direction. Has the Minister convinced his colleagues in Government of the importance of this sector? In the National Development Plan job creation in arts and culture receives very little attention. In the area of tourism the amount available is reduced by 2.5 per cent. In terms of job creation in the industries associated with arts and culture, the plan is a dismal failure. There is great potential in these areas and the plan does not address the matter in detail.

The Deputy's supplementary question, if it is a question, is based on a stubborn refusal to accept the facts I have given in my reply. I would regard as extraordinary a person who insisted that an increase from £42.6 million, or 14.2 per cent, to £139 million, or 21 per cent, of total operational programme expenditure was a failure. However, there are those who will not listen.

To deal with the Deputy's question, which I hope is serious — I think she is concerned about issues other than the abuse of statistics in relation to the arts — I have given a great deal of information in my reply to show it is now accepted that arts is an area in which there is considerable job creation. We are not disagreeing about the report of the Arts Council to which I referred. I wish to give another example to support what I am saying. How could one regard as a dismal failure the allocation of £16 million to the film industry over a period of years from a zero starting point? This is only one of six initiatives I have taken in regard to the film industry, £1 million spent on the film industry will generate 50 jobs in the documentaries area and 48 jobs in the features area. I have announced further initiatives in this area.

It should be remembered that I am operating under programmes which were put in place before my Department was founded. I have maximised the drawdown of funding from these programmes and I intend to spend the money in an integrated way to ensure the greatest return in terms of job creation. This is a very exciting time for those looking forward to job creation in practically all areas of the arts.

Deputy F. Fitzgerald rose.

The House will accept that an inordinate amount of time has been devoted to this one question and there are four remaining priority questions.

With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, that has been due mainly to the length of the replies rather than the questions I raised.

I have no control over such matters, Deputy, but I have control over Deputies' supplementaries. In the light of the circumstances prevailing and the time factor involved, I ask for brevity.

I acknowledge the importance of the money which has been allocated to, for example, the film industry. The point I am making is that I do not think the Minister can be satisfied that the National Development Plan goes far enough in terms of creating the infrastructure necessary for job creation and the other spin off benefits in a healthy arts and culture sector. It is very disappointing, particularly as this is an exciting time in the film industry. There is clearly a great deal of overlap between the Minister's brief and the brief of the Minister for Tourism and Trade. Developments in arts and culture will depend to a degree on some of the initiatives taken by the Minister for Tourism and Trade. What structures does the Minister intend to put in place to facilitate the development he outlined——

I asked for brevity, but seemingly the Chair's appeal fell on deaf ears.

I will seek to co-operate with you, a Cheann Comhairle, in terms of brevity, while at the same time endeavouring not to compromise my commitment to give Opposition Deputies the maximum amount of information.

I had consultations with the Minister for Tourism and Trade, and the system works as follows. There are specified basic cultural institution expenditures which have an outturn in terms of income for tourism which, in turn, creates jobs. There are also mainline institutional developments of a cultural kind which are of general benefit. There are projects which are a priority from a tourism point of view. Therefore, there is is a degree of interaction between the Minister for Tourism and Transport, Deputy McCreevy and me which led to discussions between us and our departmental officials on how the money can be best spent. The word I used in my initial reply was "integrated". If one is to spend money wisely to ensure the best return in terms of jobs one must ensure that the overlaps are not wasteful but additional in terms of their job creation capacity.

Ar aghaidh linn anois go dtí Ceist 2.

May I ask a brief supplementary? Will that interaction take the form of committees——

Ceist a dó le do thoil.

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