Vol. 436 No. 8
7 Mr. E. Kenny asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
11 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
21 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
23 Ms F. Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intention regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
29 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
32 Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committees which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
36 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade if he has satisfied himself that the Regional Tourism Boards are the best way to promote the industry; and if he has any alternative plans to employ private operators to do the promotional work.
38 Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his intentions regarding the proposed County Tourism Committee which he announced recently, including their role, composition and relationship with the Regional Tourism Organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
It is proposed to take Questions Nos. 7, 11, 21, 23, 29, 32, 36 and 38 together.
Following a detailed review of the co-ordination of tourism at regional level as recommended by the Tourism Task Force and confirmed in the Programme for Government, the House will be aware that I reached agreement with representatives of the Regional Tourism Organisation on 29 October 1993 to establish more appropriate institutional structures for Irish tourism at regional and county level. Resulting from that agreement a new structure based upon county divisions will be established to replace the existing regional councils of the RTOs. Consequently each county will be represented by a county tourism committee comprising representatives of the various membership categories within each RTO including members of voluntary groups and organisations. In addition, new slimmed-down boards of management will be established to replace the existing management committees.
In general, county tourism committees will be involved in the "hands on" development at county-area level while the RTOs will continue to have responsibility for tourism development at regional level, including co-ordination, promotions, tourist information networks and accommodation standards. Committees will be responsible for stimulating and co-ordinating projects in the tourism sector by identifying, influencing and bringing forward new products and initiatives in the remit of their operational area. The committees will also have responsibility for formulating county tourism action plans for incorporating into the county enterprise action plans produced by the county enterprise boards and the regional tourism plans produced by the RTOs. The RTO will convene three meetings per annum with each committee and organise an annual regional forum of all committees.
One of these days we will become very confused by the various boards that are being set up. If the same people are sitting on many boards their time will be totally taken up with these matters. Will the Minister explain the relationship between the proposed county tourism boards and the county enterprise boards? Would he agree that the county enterprise boards, of one of which I am a member, could easily do the work of the proposed county tourism boards in view of the fact that the tourism industry is very well represented on these boards? Would the Minister agree that this is just another layer of bureaucracy?
I do not accept that argument because in some cases tourism is not represented on the county enterprise boards. That may not be the case in the Deputy's constituency but it is in other areas. When the decision to set up the county enterprise boards was taken initially it was decided to disband the regional tourism organisations and shortly after there was a general election. This gave rise to negotiations for a partnership Government, which took some time. The Programme for a Partnership Government recommended that consideration should be given to setting up organisations which would deal with tourism on a regional basis. This was in line with the recommendation in the November 1992 report of the tourism task force.
Following a series of meetings, which concluded in March, I decided to restructure the regional tourism organisations. Negotiations took place with those organisations during the summer regarding the setting up of the county tourism committees. Under the new system the regional tourism organisations have been slimmed down dramatically and each county will have its own tourism committee which will have a hands-on approach to the development of the tourism industry in its area. I hope this system will be devoid of bureaucracy. There is a very good county tourism committee in Deputy Fox's constituency and a pretty good one in mine.
The Minister had to fight hard to save it.
I will refer to that point later. As I said, people will be able to come together under the new county tourism committee structure to ensure a hands-on approach to the development of the tourism industry in that area. The slimmed down regional tourism organisations will deal with the regional aspects of the industry, for example, the provision of tourism information networks, etc. I hope everyone involved in the tourism industry, including Bord Fáilte, will be singing off the one hymn sheet, so to speak, in regard to the development of this industry.
Is it proposed that the new county tourism committees will have their own budgets? In other words, will they have a promotional or a developmental role? What relationship will the committee in Kerry have with SFADCo, which promotes part of Kerry, the Cork-Kerry tourism organisation and Údarás na Gaeltachta? It strikes me that the Minister is adding a further layer of bureaucracy to the three agencies already promoting tourism in the Kerry area. In addition, the Leader programme and the county enterprise boards——
The Deputy is going from the general to the particular.
It is a very important matter.
I do not necessarily disagree with the point made by the Deputy — one can get confused when a number of organisations are dealing with the promotion of tourism in the one county. The county tourism committees will not have a budget, apart from the funds they raise themselves or which are given to them by the regional tourism organisations. The county tourism committees in Counties Kildare and Wicklow, the areas I know best, have operated very successfully for a number of years. The people interested in tourism in those two counties got together to promote it in their areas: one committee is called Kildare Fáilte and the other the Wicklow Tourism Committee. These committees are representative of the people who own caravan parks, hotels and guesthouses in those areas. I will allow individuals at county level to operate these committees. As I said, the regional tourism organisations have worked very well in some areas but not in others. There is no point in turning a blind eye to this fact. The county tourism committees will have a hands-on approach to the development of the tourism industry in their areas, a system which I believe will work very well. Interim committees will be set up between now and April when the regional tourism organisations have their annual general meetings and we will monitor them after that. If the system is seen not to be working this time next year I will not have any hesitation in making further changes in this area.
Having regard to the fact that many countries in central and eastern Europe have changed to free market economies, does the Minister consider that we might do likewise, particularly in regard to our tourism industry? The Minister has innovative ideas and perhaps he will consider replacing the present tourist boards, which are extremely expensive, clumsy and, as many people perceive, highly inefficient, with private promoters who would be paid on the basis of their results. A number of people involved in the tourism industry in my constituency do not use the services of Bord Fáilte. I am referring in particular to hoteliers who carry out their own promotions. Will the Minister agree there is a need for a second opinion in this area?
I am glad my good friend Deputy Deasy has come into the House without being prompted by me to do so. The purpose behind the marketing initiative I announced less than a month ago was to allow people in the industry to do their own thing without the heavy hand of State bureaucracy placed on them.
That is a different question.
I am willing to consider further initiatives in this regard and, as I said previously in the House, to allow people directly involved in the industry to control their own destiny and carry out their own promotions. The marketing initiative is along those lines. I outlined my thinking on this issue earlier in reply to a question from Deputy Deenihan and others. I hope to take further steps in this area in the coming years.
Will they be given an option?
Yes.
I think the Minister will agree that we are not talking only about private money in terms of a marketing initiative but also about public money. If people in the private sector want to sell their own wares they should be allowed to do so. I do not think anyone disagrees with this. However, it should be remembered that we are talking about public money. I suggest to the Minister that his policy now is to buy a dog and bark himself. Will the Minister agree it would be a pity if the successful ventures in Counties Wicklow and Kildare were used as a stick with which to beat other county tourism committees? The venture in my county has been successful because scarce public money was put into its establishment by the local authority. The Minister might underestimate the difficulties experienced by the county enterprise boards if he is simply leaving it to each county to formulate its own arrangements in regard to those committees and to raise its own funding — he said they could not expect to get any funding apart from what they get from the regional tourism organisations. He should look at the Leader programme which adopts a much more flexible approach to this issue. Under the programme counties make their own arrangements, it may well be that a country enterprise board is willing and able to take on responsibility for the development of the tourism industry in its area. Instead of setting out——
The questioning is over long.
The Minister should reconsider his view that the new county tourism committees will not be another bureaucratic structure. Already some applications to country enterprise boards have to go through seven different levels——
That should be adequate, Deputy.
Will the Minister consider adopting a more flexible approach to the county tourism committees?
The Deputy has had quite some latitude.
In case I have not made my views on this issue clear today and on other occasions, I am not making the setting up of county tourism committees compulsory. If a better arrangement can be put forward by some counties that is acceptable. I have made that clear to the regional tourism organisations at various meetings and it is part of the agreement. Those organisations will help to set up county tourism committees in areas in which there are none at present. It is in the interests of the people involved in tourism in any county to operate within the structure which best suits them. We have set out what we believe is the best structure to get these committees up and running. The committees in Counties Kildare and Wicklow are good examples of the type which can be established. The local authorities in both areas provided the seed capital for setting up these committees. It is also true that some other organisations did not want them to be set up. I was quite adamant that the committees in Counties Kildare and Wicklow have worked well and should be allowed to remain as they are.
The Minister changed his mind on that. He knew they were to be abolished.
The Minister did not change his mind, other people had to change their minds about them.
I would like to pay tribute to the Minister. He is obviously bringing the degree of dynamism to his Department that he displayed as a backbencher and it is a breath of fresh air to tourism that is very welcome. His ideas are taking root and they must be nurtured considerably if they are to come to fruition. Will the Minister consider the re-direction of some of the funds that are currently allocated to the regional tourism organisations to county enterprise boards and county tourism organisation? It is all very well to set up county tourism organisations but it is of no value when no budget is available to them.
As you will know, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, being a colleague of mine in County Wicklow, you and I and Deputy McManus have the pleasure of living in the finest county in Ireland, the Garden County.
And Deputy Godfrey Timmins.
The tourism structures in the county, as operated by our regional tourism organisation, are totally unacceptable. For example, Glendalough caters for 150,000 visitors but it has no permanent tourist office. Arklow and Bray, the two biggest towns north and south of the country, do not have one.
Has the Deputy a question?
I am just coming to that.
He is rambling around Wicklow.
He is doing a constituency canvass.
If we are serious about promoting the county tourism organisations and allocating funding to them, I have no hesitation in saying that we should do away with the RTOs and put the money into county tourism organisations.
We must first see how this system will operate. We are trying to put a structure in place and this time next year we should have an idea as to how it is opening. I am quite certain that what will operate well in one country will not operate well in another. I am certain also that some county tourism organisations will have a very good working relationship with the RTOs and with the county enterprise partnership boards while others will not. When we have the system up and running we can then see what changes might have to be made. I would not rule out the possibility that funding might be redirected at some stage in the future but it is important that we get the system off the ground.
Some of my ideas about tourism will be wrong, they will not work, but it is better to make some changes and have some successs than not do anything. Just because something has been done the same way for the past 20, 30 or 40 years does not mean that that should continue. It is time to make some changes and if some ideas fail I hope the ideas that work will be a huge success in tourism. We should not be locked into structures that have been in place for many years, we should be prepared to try something different. That is what I intend to do and I hope the ideas will work but if they do not at least we will have tried.
As the Minister said, he is the boss.
In relation to the county tourism committees, the Minister clarified that they do not have a budget and that he has no specific mandate to form a country tourism committee. In midwest region we have an organisation mandated to promote tourism. We have a county enterprise board whose objective is set up a business plan, which will be the objective of every county enterprise board. Would the Minister agree that part of that business plan would be the tourism emphasis? Is the Minister saying that county tourism promotion is strictly the wish of people involved in the tourism trade or does he see them dovetailing into the county enterprise plan, into what Shannon Development is doing in our area or does he see them operating on an autonomous basis?
It may be that in a place such as west Limerick the people will come together, form groups and produce innovative ideas in regard to tourism. I have met such groups throughout the country but I also see them dovetailing into the overall national plan, particularly into the SFADCo plan. I am not a believer in stringent bureaucracy and I accept that the number of bodies with which one has to communicate is very confusing. However, when the county tourism committees are in operation and with the slimmed down RTOs people with ideas will know to whom they should go to obtain some State assistance. People around the country who produce a plan should have their ideas adopted in the regional plan for their area.
I admire the Minister's ideas and he is adopting the right attitude. What is the total Estimate for the Minister's Department and what is the amount allocated to tourism?
The 1994 Estimate will be published shortly. In the 1993 Estimate, the direct grant-in-aid to Bord Fáilte was £21.8 million. I cannot recall offhand the figure allocated to SFADCo and CERT is another tourism related activity that would have received funding but if the Deputy tables a separate question I will give him the relevant details.
May I ask a brief supplementary on regional tourism organisations?
Very briefly, Deputy as a great deal of time has been spent on these questions and we must be fair to the Deputies who have tabled other questions.
With due respect, many questions were taken together. The Minister mentioned that he will be looking at the role of the regional tourism organisations. Does he intend to examine their geographic basis because at the moment some problems exist. For example, my county, and the Minister's county, have no real meaning. They are simply the leftovers from the other regions. Would the Minister accept that it would be beneficial to cluster counties within some regional structure where they have a common interest?
I have undertaken the restructuring of the RTOs. That was announced some time ago and it was finalised in October. In regard to the Deputy's other point, I try not to bite off more than I can chew although sometimes I am inclined to do so. However, I am prepared to look at that matter because the East Regional Tourism Organisation covers a very wide area and there are many counties involved. Rather than making a change in that regard I am prepared to leave that for another day. I have no plans at present but I accept the Deputy's contention that the situation is not satisfactory. I do not want to set up another structure which will probably be equally as unsatisfactory. I will consider the matter in the future but not in the immediate future.
