Local Government Bill, 1994: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Mr. O'Donoghue

The financing of local authorities is the greatest bone of contention among councillors and the people they serve. The present system of financing through the rates support grant is inequitable and has been since 1977. In 1977 the Government decided that local authorities would be funded by means of a rates support grant based on existing valuations. At that time some counties, particularly those along the western seaboard, including my own county of Kerry, had a low valuation base and to this day are financed on the basis of that valuation. The effect of this method of financing local authorities is to make poor countries poorer and rich counties even richer. To give one example of the anomaly there is a commercial ratepayer in the Limerick County Council area paying more in rates than is paid by all the ratepayers in Kerry to Kerry County Council, yet the rates support grant to Limerick County Council is higher than that to Kerry County Council. I am not whingeing about this. I am merely pointing out a grave injustice.

The method of financing is fundamentally unfair and has inhibited many local authorities, particularly along the western seaboard, in developing services for their people as they would wish. In addition, local authorities have ever-increasing revenue costs. In some cases this is because they are obliged by EU directives and regulations to provide levels of service that they simply cannot afford. Local authorities are obliged to put in place landfill sites which are extremely expensive to maintain, and this has become a major issue. In addition there is the question of sewage treatment plants in coastal towns. Kerry is the first county to have a landfill refuse site, which will be costly to maintain. There are sewage treatment plants in virtually every coastal town in the county and the running costs, subsequent to the capital outlay, are a cause of concern. Unless a new method of funding local authorities is devised they will not be able to provide the level of service that people demand and are entitled to.

For the commission that the Minister is setting up to investigate the role of local authorities, the fundamental issue must be the method of financing. I am aware that a request was made to the London Institute of Fiscal Studies to look into the question of financing local authorities. This institute reported back and some county managers advised the Minister that they were in favour of the recommendations in the report whereas others said that they were not. It seems the views of the county managers were based on how their county was doing under the present system.

Some county councils have been rewarded for years of overspending while those that were frugal and kept within budget have suffered as a result. This Minister is farsighted enough to recognise that such a system cannot be allowed to continue. The system is fundamentally unfair and requires a radical overhaul.

Nowhere is the lack of finance more apparent than on our county roads. It is not the fault of the Minister. This has been the case for many years, but the recent spell of bad weather has led to revolutions in many parishes because of the state of county roads. Potholes are commonplace and are such a feature of our landscape that they have become the butt of jokes.

This is not an easy problem to solve, but I congratulate the Minister on making a genuine effort to address it. The application to Europe for permission to use Cohesion and Structural Funds on non-national roads is very welcome. The Minister will have difficulty in getting the application through the European Commission because it wants such moneys expended on national, secondary and primary routes. Nonetheless, the unique importance of county roads to rural communities cannot be overstressed. I am sure Members will agree that people have a fundamental right to decent access roads to their homes. In this respect it is important that the European Commission listens to the pleadings of the Minister so that there can be a great improvement in our county road network in the coming years.

In the context of setting up the commission to examine the role of local authorities, it is important that there is some form of co-ordination and that the role of local authorities is expanded. Increasingly, local authorities are becoming involved in tourism, but there should be a greater co-ordination between statutory agencies. The list of State agencies involved in the development of tourism or job creation is mind boggling. For example, in Kerry County Council, Shannon Development, Údarás na Gaeltachta, Forbairt, the Industrial Development Authority, the County Enterprise Board, the Leader programme, Cork-Kerry Tourism and the county tourism committees are involved in the promotion of tourism and-or job creation. It is becoming more and more apparent that there are too many chiefs and not enough indians and that we are in danger of not being able to see the wood for the trees.

I pity any entrepreneur seeking grant aid to set up a business or industry here. It is difficult to know where to turn and very often one is sent from one organisation to another. When the numerous application forms have been completed many throw their hands in the air in despair and abandon their original plan. There is a need for greater co-ordination and it should begin at local level. There is no reason local authorities who traditionally were involved in the provision of services and infrastructure, should not become more involved in the creation of employment and the promotion of tourism. In Kerry recently the county manager and the county council agreed that a sum of £50,000 would be donated by the local authority to set up a company to market the county for tourism purposes. A sum of £50,000 would also be contributed by the urban authorities and others involved in the tourism sector. Over a three year period the fund will amount to approximately £1.2 million and £400,000 will be spent every year on marketing the county. That type of innovation should be encouraged at central level and there should be greater recognition of the fundamental fact that very often people with local knowledge who are familiar with local requirements are best equipped to promote the region and help to solve the problem of unemployment.

While it is desirable that there should be some central control, it should merely constitute a co-ordinating base and in this respect the need to devolve powers to local authorities becomes apparent. Anybody who believes that centralisation has been beneficial to those living along the west coast or in rural areas is sadly mistaken. The Minister stated yesterday that some 61 per cent of the population now reside in urban areas. Centralisation has failed miserably. It has led to a drift from the land and meant that rural areas are without some of their best people, although some of the best have also remained. New structures must be put in place to enable the bottom-up approach, advocated frequently by the European Commission, to be adopted. Devolution of more powers to local authorities will help to arrest the decline of rural Ireland and in the final analysis while that may not be the panacea for every ill, it is certainly a step in the right direction.

Like a fellow Kerryman, Con Houlihan, I will finish with a fógra. The reintroduction of small sewerage schemes is badly needed and grants for minor roads in tourist areas should be introduced. I ask the Minister of State present, the Minister for the Environment and the Minister of State, Deputy Stagg, to do all they can to bring about improvements on the Ring of Kerry road in the next few years. Otherwise tourist traffic will not be able to travel on it without tremendous congestion.

Ms O'Donnell

The Progressive Democrat Party welcomes the opportunity to address the issues in this Bill and for many years has supported the principle of reform of our local government system. The Minister heralded this legislation as radical and reforming. It is reforming but is not radical because the reform has been postponed. Reform postponed until 1998 cannot be deemed to be reform until action is taken. The year 1998 is a long time away and two general elections could be held in the meantime. It is regrettable that the Minister considered he must postpone until 1998 the implementation of many reforms, particularly that of the dual mandate. We believe the Minister has failed to bite the bullet on that controversial issue. The Government would have received our support if the Minister proposed a blanket ban on Members of the Dáil holding local authority office. It is not satisfactory to limit that to a number of people including the chairpersons of local authorities, the Ceann Comhairle, members of the European Commission and others to whom membership is somewhat irrelevant, when the main issue is the dual mandate as it relates to Members of the Oireachtas.

The Minister should have addressed that issue. That would have opened opportunities for more people to enter politics and would have implications for the role of women in that area. The key to greater participation of women in national politics is their membership of local authorities. Many women are to the fore in organising essential services in the local communities and operate on the periphery of party politics. Many would like to become involved in local politics but the system is stagnant because Dáil Deputies retain local authority membership and there is not sufficient mobility in the system for women to secure nominations. There was some improvement in the local elections in 1991 when 250 women were put forward by various parties and others ran as independent candidates; 94 women were elected, taking 11 per cent of seats, as against 8 per cent in the 1985 election. That increase is welcome.

Women are gradually being invited to participate and the benefit of their participation in local democracy is visible. The development of local democracy must involve the participation of a balance of men and women. That has not been the case and local government policies have not reflected a true democracy. There is an imbalance in policy decisions at local authority level which affect services because only a small number of women are part of that process.

The proposals for reform are not radical enough because they are postponed until 1998. It is always wrong to postpone elections as it involves a breach of an agreement made with the electorate at the last election. I am a Dublin City Councillor elected since 1991. My period of office is due to run out in 1996 but I have been told that, as a result of a unilaterial decision by central Government, I will retain office until 1998. As announced by my party, I intend to give up my seat on Dublin City Council to develop time to my national commitments in the Dáil. I will leave open an opportunity for another member of my party to concentrate on representing the people of Rathmines. Dáil Deputies should not be so worried about giving up their local authority seats. They should be confident that people who voted for them in the general election trusted them with their support and it would enhance their role if they recognised that the two roles of Dáil Member and local authority member cannot be performed well and that one's loyalties are divided between legislating in this House and looking after the local needs of constituents. It is regrettable the Minister has not introduced the mandatory abolition of the dual mandate.

The Barrington report was an excellent one, advocating major reform of the local government system. No further reports or commissions are needed in this respect. The Barrington report is sufficient and its recommendations should be implemented. It is a blueprint for action. The Minister intends to set up another commission to study the reclassification of the towns system after the forthcoming elections. The appointments to that commission will be made by the Minister and the recommendations in its report will be implemented within 12 months. While this area requires reclassification it is not necessary to set up another commission to study it. The members of the commission will not be sufficiently independent or objective because their appointment will be made by the Minister.

Recently Dublin Corporation considered the role of the councillor. The former Lord Mayor, Deputy Gay Mitchell, set up a commission to examine the reform of Dublin Corporation. It was considered that body had too many committees, was not operating effectively and not providing as good a service as possible to constituents. A council should be run like a business. It should be streamlined and there should be healthy dialogue between management and councillors. Local authorities should not be used as a vehicle to criticise central Government. They should be independent and confident in running the affairs of the local community. Decisions made by local authorities affect the quality of people's lives. The decisions of Dublin City Council in respect of planning, housing and environmental strategy have a greater impact on the quality of people's lives than many of the decisions we make in this House.

It is nine years since the last local elections. The reason given for their postponement was that the Government wished to reform local government. When my party was in Government it insisted the proposals in the Barrington report for overhauling local government should be implemented to make that system meaningful. All parties supported the recommendations of that report. The Bill does not go far enough.

It is worth repeating the reason we need local government reform. As outlined by the Minister, we are working under an archaic system, with a series of procedures and regulations that have existed for almost a century. The implications are that the system is not working effectively. There are many circuitous ways of getting around the laws in this area and we have been labouring under this system for many years.

Another reason for the reform of local government is to promote self-reliance among local authorities and to allow people, through their local authority representatives, to have more of a say in the decisions which affect the quality of their lives. If there was greater autonomy at local authority level people would take a greater interest and become more involved in local affairs. Local communities and residents' associations should work in partnership with their local authority. The principle of subsidiarity is a valid one, whether at European or local level. Decisions affecting people's lives should be made at the lowest possible level. We are not following the trend of our European partners in operating a centralised system of government. In Germany, Holland and other smaller countries local democracy operates in a healthy, vibrant way. Local groups have much more powers in economic planning and development and in the management of towns.

One of the greatest privileges for me is to be a member of the planning and development committee of the city council. Planning of Dublin city's development is an enormous responsibility and great mistakes have been made in the past. I am very proud to be a member of the city council, which takes a very enlightened view of matters and a great attempt has been made by that council to atone for the mistakes made in the 1970s in the name of progress. I pay tribute to the excellent planners and management team in Dublin City Council who have played a very proactive role in redressing the mistakes made by the loss of many of our historic buildings.

The planning and development committee of Dublin City Council does the best it can, but what is needed is a more proactive role in terms of conservation. Statutory legislation is necessary to identify conservation areas. The protection of our built heritage is carried out in an ad hoc way around the country and in Dublin it is a political issue. There is an awareness of the importance of the protection of our built heritage and our planners and councillors have become much more enlightened in the last decade or so. However, in towns and cities the work depends on the leadership given by county and city managers. Kilkenny has a very good reputation in this regard and Galway has been to the fore in undertaking sympathetic work in that city. Some standardisation should be introduced for the conservation of our built heritage.

The Progressive Democrats support local government reform. We have many reservations about the Bill and will be putting down substantial amendments which will promote debate, particularly on the dual mandate. We will also deal with the question of the postponement of local elections until 1998, which is unacceptable in a democracy. We look forward to Committee Stage on which we will put forward amendments.

I wish to refer to the role of the National Roads Authority which was established in January of this year. Responsibility for national roads has been transferred from the Department to the authority and as a result there are implications for accountability. I put a question to the Minister for the Environment about the completion of the Southern-Cross Route which is a matter of vital importance to traffic management in my constituency of Dublin South. There has been a legal challenge to the completion of the Southern Cross Route. Many bad planning decisions have been made in the country, which have been well documented, with areas of land unwisely rezoned and the subsequent mushrooming of residential development leading to congestion on secondary roads. There are many questions to be asked about the Southern Cross Route but because this matter is no longer the responsibility of the Minister Deputies are unable to get answers.

We will be putting down an amendment to the effect that each local authority should devise an environmental strategy. There is a very strong environment committee in Dublin City Council which has a good reputation and a good track record in dealing with environmental matters such as monitoring air and water pollution. I do not believe that all local authorities are as well served. Each local authority should set targets on the protection of the environment in the area of its responsibility. We should take the example of authorities in England such as that in Leeds which carries out proactive audits on environmental protection.

A mistake made in Dublin is that our land use policy has not been sufficiently integrated with transportation and roads planning. The Dublin Transportation Initiative, of which I am a member and which has been a success, made excellent recommendations in this area, I hope that with the shortfall in Structural Funds sufficient money will be made available to meet all the recommendations. When the time comes to make decisions on the allocation of the Structural Funds I hope public transport in Dublin, the need for a light rail system, bus corridors and so on will take priority. The Progressive Democrats will put forward amendments to this Bill in due course.

Mr. Jacob

I thank the Chair for the opportunity to comment on this Bill which I welcome along with the Minister's efforts to take local government legislation out of the middle ages and bring it up to date.

This Bill does not claim to constitute radical reform, but the Minister has stitched into it a commission which will fulfil our aspirations of serious and radical reform of local government. He has ensured that the work of the commission will not go on ad nauseam but for a period of 12 months. It must then report to the Minister and this House with its proposals and recommendations for what we hope will be a serious attempt at reforming local government.

Some of my colleagues referred to the Minister's proposal to exclude Oireachtas Members from holding the position of cathaoirleach and leas-chathaoirleach of local authorities. I can understand the views expressed on all sides of the House and in this regard I will outline my experience as a member of Wicklow County Council over the past year.

The council, comprising nine councillors, met to elect our vice-chairman who would go on to become chairman for the following year. It was suggested that councillors who did not have opportunities at Oireachtas level should be given an opportunity to become chairman of the county council and I agreed with that view. Consequently, I agree with the Minister's proposal in the Bill. The Minister has made this decision primarily out of consideration for the greater percentage of county councillors who do not hold Oireachtas positions and who have only one reward perhaps once in every 20 years to which they might aspire, i.e. to become chairman of a local authority. Councillors who are also Oireachtas Members can at least aspire to become officeholders, chairpersons of various committees, etc. Those opportunities are not available to the ordinary county council member. I agree totally with the Minister's decision in this regard. His motivation for proposing this measure was concern for the many councillors who should be given such consideration.

Local authorities generally tend to be the premier body within a county. Wicklow County Council is the premier body in that county and is the largest employer. We are fortunate to have a progressive and innovative county manager, Mr. Blaise Treacy, and the days are long gone when our county council only carried out the work of providing water and sewerage services etc. The tendency over the past number of years, particularly under the leadership of our incumbent county manager, is to become more progressive and innovative and endeavour to lead the way in job creation and the promotion of tourism. This was a welcome change. Wicklow was the first county to set up its own county tourism company, which was the brainchild of Mr. Treacy. For many years Wicklow, with all its God given advantages for a progressive tourism industry, was extremely laid back in that regard and it required the leadership of the county manager to spur us into action. Indeed, with the erosion of traditional industry in the county, the "hungry fighter syndrome" came into play and we began to identify job creation opportunities and tourism was an obvious option. We have improved considerably in that respect.

The leadership shown by our county manager is an indication of the positive side of the county managerial system. I am sure county managers in other areas have shown similar leadership. There is, however, a negative aspect in that the existing system affords too much power to the county manager to the detriment and often to the total frustration of members of local authorities. In our political system there is no better value for money than the county councillor who works virtually without remuneration and carries out his duties at local level often to the detriment of family life. The frustration of those people has to be experienced to be appreciated. One hopes that the Commission's recommendations will improve matters. The first issue to be tackled must be the financing of local authorities. When councillors submit motions which involve expenditure on projects they invariably receive a courteous reply to the effect that there is no money available to proceed with the project, end of story. When local authorities are under financed councillors have very little power and feel they are merely rubber stamping decisions. They feel they are irrelevant. If unpopular decisions are taken they are at the receiving end of public odium. That is regrettable. We have been very slow to address that issue.

There is a topical issue in Wicklow at present. A mammoth landfill site is planned adjacent to Wicklow town at Ballingran, Coolbeg. Wicklow County Council in its inimitable way set about the purchase of 300 acres of land for a landfill site, which was unheard of. I want firsts for my county but not necessarily in relation to dumps. It was a unilateral decision taken by the management of the council without any consultation with the members who represent the people of Wicklow. Substantial sums of money were paid to consultants to seek suitable areas for a landfill site. Only when the exercise was completed did the management consult the councillors and say they had examined a number of sites, placed them in order of priority and, as per the consultants' recommendation, the beautiful valley at Ballinagran, Coolbeg was the favoured site. It is important that we have somewhere to dispose of our garbage. I do not want to go down the road of discussing other ways of dealing with it. I highlight this instance to illustrate the way the system works. It should have been a serious matter for discussion within the council chamber prior to one penny of taxpayers' money being spent. It is quite possible that the council in its wisdom may decide to scrap the idea and the money would have been wasted.

The rate support grant was introduced in 1977 when rates were removed. However, the grant has dwindled and costs have increased. Sufficient money is not available to local authorities to defray their costs. In Wicklow we have a poor commercial rate base compared to Dublin. People on the Wicklow-Dublin border are paying service and water charges because they are in the Wicklow County Council area while those in the Dublin County Council area do not pay these charges. This causes frustration which percolates through the system and is vented on the local councillor who must take it on the chin.

In Wicklow the County Manager heads up the county enterprise board. I expect great things from these boards and hope I will not be disappointed. They must be devoid of bureaucracy which has brought many schemes to the ground in the past. We were told there would not be any referral but my information on the matter is disappointing. The process commences with the owner of a small business speaking to the county development officer who discusses the scheme with him. The county development officer must refer the proposal to an assessment team who refer it to the county enterprise board who refer it to the Department. There is a delay somewhere along the line although the Minister for Enterprise and Employment has grasped this nettle and I understand an immediate solution is in the offing. It is in the small business area that the potential for job creation lies and we must avail of this great opportunity which will not come again.

I know the Chair is adverse to papers being displayed here but I understand how my colleagues feel when they are tempted to raise something aloft and show it in the Chamber. A recent edition of The Wicklow People carried an article by a member of the Seanad which was a shameful effort to demean and denigrate the ordinary members of county councils. It appears that his readership is in counties Wicklow and Wexford — he homed in on those two counties in his article. It is very regrettable that people from the élite stockbroking belt can be given the opportunity to behave is such a manner and write an article which will cause major annoyance to good, decent men and women in Wicklow, Wexford and other areas who, despite the constraints placed on them, are doing their best for the people who elected them. It is totally unacceptable that their local paper should carry such an article and I decry it in the strongest possible terms.

Mr. Nealon

As I live in the Sligo Borough Council area it is appropriate that I should contribute to the debate on any Bill dealing with local government reform. Sligo Borough Council — or Sligo Corporation — was responsible in the past for one of the most significant changes ever to have taken place in our electoral procedures, not only for elections to local authorities but for elections to Dáil Éireann. It could be said to be responsible to a greater or lesser degree for the present composition of the House, not that I particularly like the present composition.

Sligo Borough Council was directly responsible for the introduction of proportional representation in Ireland. The background to the introduction of proportional representation in Sligo in 1919 is a bit murky. To use the most charitable possible summary of the conditions which existed, the borough had not been well run or, to use the words of the then Mayor, Dudley M. Hanley, it was a cesspool — it was burdened with debts, services were extremely bad or non-existent and all the members of the corporation belonged to the one party, having been elected on the straight vote, first past the post, winner takes all, system. Before the extension of the franchise it was also a one party authority but the other way round, so to speak.

To remedy this imbalance a Sligo citizen. Tadgh Kilgallon — who subsequently published a very good book on the history of Sligo — suggested the use of proportional representation, the single transferable vote system. Although they never used it, this was essentially an English system thought up by a Thomas Hare. It was generally accepted that the proportional representation system might be worth a try in Sligo on the admittedly dubious grounds that anything would be better than the system then used.

To its credit, the sitting one party council, the ratepayers' association in the town and the citizens of the town at a meeting all opted for the change. In July 1918 a Bill was steered through the House of Commons by the then Sligo nationalist MP, Thomas Scanlon, without any opposition which made it obligatory for Sligo to hold an election on the PR principles as soon as possible. The first PR election in Ireland was held in Sligo in January in 1919. The seats won in the election were virtually in exact proportion to the votes in the ballot box. All parties and commentators were very impressed with the outcome and agreed it was fair and honest. Arising from this, the so-called straight vote system was replaced by the PR system, not only for the remaining local authority elections later that year, but for the parliamentary elections the following year. In one way or another many Deputies owe their membership of this House to the decision taken a long time ago in Sligo.

Sligo became a borough in 1612 under a charter granted by James I which provided that the area would "choose, send and return two discreet and fit men to serve and attend every Parliament". I assume Deputy Bree and I are the "discreet and fit men" now fulfilling the requirements of that part of the charter.

Mr. Costello

Sligo has much to account for.

Mr. Nealon

The area comprising Sligo borough was later defined by drawing a circle with a radius of one Irish mile from a centre in Markets Cross around the town. This boundary still remains.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): There was no reference to women.

Mr. Nealon

There was no reference to a proper gender balance at that time, but the people of Sligo have moved on substantially since then.

The subsequent history of Sligo Borough Council is chequered. At one stage control of the council was held virtually by the Wynne family. This is similar to the position in Bundoran at present. An Act of Parliament was passed in 1803 under which the 24 elected Commissioners would retain their seats for life. That was an even better run than the one enjoyed by the present members of the corporation. The major difficulty encountered by the corporation was the capping of the rates under an Act of Parliament at four shillings and six pence in the pound. This gave rise to continuous debts for the corporation which were only finally sorted out with the introduction of proportional representation in 1919.

We have waited a long time for this Bill, which has proven to be a major disappointment. This Bill was not introduced because of what it seeks to do but because some sort of Bill had to be introduced in advance of the elections to the borough councils, urban district councils and town commissions. These elections were postponed by a previous Government who told us that there would be major reform of the second level of local government. Obviously the Minister could not get agreement for major reform, and as a result we have a Bill in name, with no great substance. The Minister has missed a great opportunity to carry out a root and branch reform of local government, from finances to responsibilities.

The present system is riddled with anomalies, inadequacies and conflicts. There is also a great lack of uniformity within the second tier of local governemnt. Why, for example, does one area have an urban district council or town commission while another, with perhaps a greater population, has neither? I do not understand why Carrick-on-Shannon. County Leitrim, does not have an urban district council. Who takes the initiative in these cases? Every area should have a second tier of local government if there is an advantage in having such an institution. The Minister could have tackled all these issues in the Bill, thus making a very important contribution to local economies while at the same time making local government much more meaningful to local communities. Unfortunately, he has failed to grasp this chance.

The Sligo Corporation election will be the only local authority election in my constituency of Sligo-Leitrim. I want to contrast this with County Monaghan where elections will be held in Monaghan town, Ballybay, Carrickmacross, Castleblayney and perhaps a few other areas.

Relations between Sligo County Council and Sligo Borough Council were so bad in the past that at one stage Sligo County Council sent in the bailiffs to the town hall and the library had to be purchased by a private citizen to save it for the town. Otherwise it would have been confiscated at that time. Things are much more friendly at present though there have been difficulties over the extension of the boundaries under this Bill. I understand that, at a late night meeting this week, the council and corporation made a joint submission to the Minister which I hope will be acceptable. This allows for a certain extension of the corporation area which will go a good way to building up the city to a population of over 20,000. That is very important for Sligo itself and for the entire surrounding area, including County Donegal, that it should be a strong, vibrant centre to compete with and counter the attractions and muscle of other locations for industry, commerce and tourism. With the extra population now being added under the Bill it will quickly grow to a city of over 20,000 people, a very good base for this purpose.

It is impossible to implement worthwhile reform of local government without at the same time reforming the financing of these bodies, which are almost totally dependent on funding from the Department of the Environment. Naturally the Department insists on rigid control of the moneys spent. What we call local government is very often a thinly disguised extension of central Government, with councillors often doing little more than rubber-stamping decisions effectively taken in Dublin. Those same councillors are blamed for inadequate services and facilities. Councillors of all parties in counties Sligo and Leitrim are being blamed because of the state of the county roads. Some of them cannot even go to Mass on Sunday because of the inevitable hassle to which they will be subjected when they meet neighbours who have travelled what used to be reasonable roads but which have become obstacle courses because of the ferociously bad weather since Christmas. What can those councillors do about it? Being a member of a local authority yourself, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, you will know they can do absolutely nothing. Sligo County Council's allocation of funds this year for non-national roads, from Exchequer grant payments, fell by over 20 per cent and Leitrim County Council's allocation by more than 9 per cent, on top of the major cuts implemented in the preceding year, yet councillors are blamed for the condition of these roads.

The Minister has told us there will be local elections in five borough councils, 48 urban district councils and 26 town commissions, a total of 79 local authority areas. No such elections have been held since 1985. These local authority members have had a tenure of almost ten years. I know of no elected representatives anywhere in the world who have fared better than that, with the exception of some members of Chiang Kai-Shek's party who crossed with him from mainland China to Taiwan and are still members of the parliament in Taiwan. There should be a fixed tenure for all local authorities, rigidly adhered to and laid down by statute.

As far as changing the boundaries is concerned, 54 of these towns are listed in the Third Schedule to the Bill. Sligo is to be added because of the agreement reached between Sligo County Council and Sligo Corporation. Does the Minister believe there should not be boundary changes in the case of some of the other towns not listed in the Third Schedule, or is it that the two local authorities disagreed? Is his decision to do absolutely nothing, irrespective of the merits of the case?

I was pleased to note the Minister's concentration on updating and supporting the library services. I should like to hear his views on the expansion of the library service into the video area. I trust he will make the necessary finance and facilities available to libraries to keep pace with technological developments.

I am pleased to note also that the Minister has requested that proper attention be paid to local records and archives. These are invaluable as far as our history and heritage are concerned and are of benefit also to tourism. I would encourage the Minister — without in any way encroaching on the zealously-guarded ramparts surrounding the remit of the Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht — to facilitate and encourage librarians to prepare their own videos of unique and important aspects of life within their areas that may be dying out so that they can be preserved, at least in video form, in our libraries for future generations. We all know the value of the decision of an earlier Government to establish the Folklore Commission, but for which much of our heritage and knowledge of our past would have been lost. There are also the recent excellent RTE programmes based on Father Browne's photographs. At a time when rural Ireland is changing very rapidly and many of our traditions and customs are disappearing it is important that records be kept. This is an area where local authorities, perhaps through county librarians, could play an important role, one for which future generations would be extremely grateful. Having listened to the Minister's introductory remarks I had the impression he would be willing to take that idea on board.

This Bill does not give greater freedom of action to local authorities to take meaningful initiatives of a commercial nature. Very often all that is needed in a local community is someone to take the lead. The Minister does not have to await the establishment of a commission — that is putting the matter on the long finger, postponing it for anything from a couple to ten years. He should include a provision in this Bill giving greater freedom of action to local authorities to engage in activities of benefit to their areas, especially in the creation of jobs.

Mr. Costello

Having listened to Deputy Nealon it would appear that Sligo has a lot to answer for. As a native of that county I was delighted to hear that it was on the initiative of Sligo that the proportional representation system was introduced which has brought us to our present position. It is a pity to hear that the Sligo roads are in such bad condition and that the local government structure has been unable to deal with the matter adequately. Let us hope that the reorganisation promised, resulting from the establishment of the proposed Local Government Reorganisation Commission, will ensure the provision of a better service. As Deputy Nealon said, something must be done about the financing of local authorities.

I would describe this Bill as a rather tentative, piecemeal reform of local government, comprising part of an evolutionary process but certainly not revolutionary. It is difficult to envisage how we can implement substantial local government reform, bearing in mind our present structures, unless we take radical action. There is little or no reference in the Bill to the financing of local authorities, yet the financing and resourcing of any structure must be at the core of its efficiency and effectiveness in operation.

Since the 1977 general election, when local authorities were deprived of their source of funding from rates we have not had a real system of local government. This has meant that a local authority like the one I serve, Dublin Corporation, is almost entirely dependent on the rates struck for the commercial sector and totally inadequate funding from the Exchequer, despite promises given at the time. This means that local authorities are unable to plan properly for the future, leaving them in limbo in relation to what they can do, dependent on funding derived from housing rents or other functions. In that sense the powers of local authorities are quite limited. We do not really have a proper structure of local government. We have no properly devolved authority in the sense that we do not have parish or local councils reaching into communities in a representative manner. We have county councils, town commissions and borough councils, but unless those bodies operate in a coherent, democratic and representative manner and are adequately resourced, it will be very difficult to deliver the type of local service required. It is in that context only that we can ever talk about abolishing the dual mandate referred to here. Our national and local politics are hopelessly interwined.

We are a small country and the tradition is that politicians should be available at local level. That applies to the Taoiseach, Ministers, Deputies, Senators and even Members of the European Parliament. Irish people are gregarious and socially and politically minded. They feel it is their entitlement to see, meet, speak to and complain if necessary, to their local or national representative. There is enormous overlap between the two. Take, for example, Dublin Corporation, of which I am a member, which deals with the city of Dublin and approximately 500,000 people. National decisions made in that local authority, some of which deal with major planning applications such as urban renewal costing tens of millions of pounds; in the Sheriff Street development where the local authority allocated in excess of £6 million for the building of a certain number of houses, they considered introducing part of the Government's plans for dealing with traffic in Dublin such as a light rail network or the building of a link to the harbour on the port. In that regard we are speaking about expenditure of hundreds of millions of pounds. A sum of between £700 million and £800 million has been identified in the National Development Plan for the upgrading of the traffic system in Dublin, including the ring road and port access. On a national basis we are talking about a local authority operating in a very large area.

Reform is not likely to come in a piecemeal way. If we are ever to come to terms with providing a local authority system separate from our national parliamentary system we need to take an imaginative look at both and the overlap that exists between participants, such as myself, and virtually all Deputies who are a member of a local authority while at the same time a Member of the national parliament.

Mr. Sargent

Speak for yourself, Deputy.

Mr. Costello

What is proposed here can be broken down into three major areas, first, the proposals for the election in 1994 and 1998. It is a pity that so much time has elapsed since the previous election to the borough councils, the urban district councils and the town commissions. There were elections to the borough councils in 1991. Nevertheless there has been no election for those important local democracy units since 1985, which is not healthy. It is unique that the present incumbents should have put forward policies and ideas and delivered on their stewardship for such a long time.

The idea in relation to the 1998 elections is excellent. The Bill proposes that all local elections will be held and consolidated in a single year, which is now targeted as 1998. Therefore, there will be elections to borough councils in 1998 and the elections to be held on 9 June 1994 will take place again in 1998. No thought has been given to the European elections which are due in 1999. To a certain extent the European elections are esoteric as far as the ordinary voting citizen is concerned, here as well as in many other countries, because we have not yet devolved authority to the elected representatives. Members of the European Parliament do not have a major say in decisions, they are taken by the Commission and there is no parliamentary representative democracy in the true sense of the word. As a result — and the statistics clearly show this — when there were national elections at local or parliamentary level the number of people who turned out to vote was reduced by 50 per cent when the elections took place in their own right in 1984.

I urge the Minister to look again at the 1998 date. It is not particularly useful to hold all our local elections in 1998 and to embark on a single European election in 1999. Much interest will be generated in 1998 and the European elections in 1999 will be an anticlimax. Consequently, there will be an exceedingly low turn out, probably the lowest in the history of the State, and that is not good for democracy. In that respect I ask the Minister to coordinate the European elections and the local elections on the same date on the next occasion.

Mr. Sargent

Does the Deputy want to postpone it again?

Mr. Costello

Let us not forget that the incumbents for the elections in June 1994 have been in office for only four years. Those who were elected in 1991 and who will be re-elected will have been in office for seven years.

Mr. Sargent

Some will be dead.

Mr. Costello

It is important that we try to consolidate elections in future. We have to take into account the swings, the roundabouts, the pluses and the minuses. In the interests of democracy we have to get our act together, see how we will deal with the European elections and try to dovetail them into our electoral process.

The second area concerns the local government reorganisation commission. The easy criticism of this body is that we are kicking to touch something which should have been done long ago. In other words, we are setting up a commission which will report within 12 months in relation to proposals on local government reorganisation. In view of the delay I had hoped we would have had proposals. I note a serious omission in relation to county boroughs, that the local government commission will not be examining the totality of local government. I hope the Local Government Reorganisation Commission will take a radical look at our local electoral system and report within 12 months.

On miscellaneous proposals on membership of local authorities, we are moving from the 1991 arrangement which prohibited Ministers and Ministers of State from having a dual mandate to prohibit TDs from holding the office of cathaoirleach and leas-chathaoirleach of the various local authorities. That is not unreasonable but it is unfair that someone who has made a considerable contribution to the local authority should be singled out from among his or her colleagues on succeeding to be elected to the Dáil. It must be remembered that one holds the position of Cathaoirleach or Leas-Chathaoirleach for a period of 12 months and it is seldom that someone is elected for a second term of office, so the benefits of this change are not as great as they might appear. If we are serious about addressing the dual mandate we must address the structure of local government.

One of the pluses of the Bill is that it confers on local authorities power to make by-laws and regulations without referring to the Minister. That is as it should be as it should not be a ministerial function to give approval to changes and regulations on matters about which the local authorities know far more. The existing system is cumbersome and totally unnecessary. The proposals to extend the power of local authorities are worthwhile. Local authorities will have power to make by-laws for the regulation of facilities and services and to regulate in the interests of the common good matters causing local concern or nuisance. They will have the power to impose on the spot fines. If Dublin local authorities collected dog licence fines and fines for nuisance cased by dogs they could collect over £1 million but that money is not being collected. If that function were properly devolved to the local authority a collection system could be put in place. This would be one of the obvious benefits of giving the local authority power to make by-laws.

The Bill will give the local authority greater power to provide library facilities. This is a major development but is not being financed adequately. We have been waiting for a library in Cabra for the past 15 years. There is no library between Blanchardstown and Phibsboro and that is a shame.

It is worrying that the thinking is to devolve functions to regional units rather than the lowest unit from which we can operate. That is the position in the health boards and seems to be the approach in the National Development Plan in education with the proposals for regional education structures which are based not on the county model but on the Euro division. This does not establish any coherent geographic or other representative structural base. That is contrary to what I would have thought developments from a Local Government Reorganisation Commission would be about. We must look at the various arms of local representation. I am concerned that the thinking in the Civil Service seems to be towards regionalism rather than the existing local county model.

This Bill has some good and bad points. It is a tentative, piecemeal reform Bill and I would have liked a more substantial and radical approach to the legislation.

Mr. Sargent

Níl mé cinnte an bhfuil an Teachta Costello ar thaobh an Fhreasúra nó ar thaobh an Rialtais. Sa suíochán ina bhfuil sé tá sé ar an dá thaobh.

Mr. Costello

An taobh neodrach.

Mr. Sargent

Sea, an taobh neodrach. Ar bhealach tá sé greannmhar ach tá sé brónach chomh maith.

The Minister referred very poetically to "yellowed legal texts in Teach an Custome" when speaking on the Bill about the reform of local government. I wonder if the incentive for this Bill has more to do with reprinting to freshen the pages and to recycle the yellowed texts. However, given that the paper is not recycled, I do not hold out much hope for that area of enterprise.

The Minister has a habit of building up our expectations by outlining in wonderful language what he proposes to do, but we do not have to dig very deep to see that this is almost entirely rhetoric. That is not a good omen for the waste Bill — another of my areas of interest — given the outcome of the packaging directive. Whether the waste Bill is worth the paper it is written on remains to be seen. However, things can only get better.

In this Bill there are many anomalies between the rhetoric and the substance. There are references to altering the town boundaries, yet hundreds of towns which would qualify under criteria for town commission status are omitted. There is talk of democracy, but the elections will be postponed until 1998 and Deputy Costello wants to postpone them until 1999. The Bill refers to the dual mandate as if action is being taken but the ultimate outcome is that Deputies who cannot manage to be elected as chairman will be looked after anyway. It seems to be a preservation technique for inept Deputies whose track record in this House cannot stand alone. This needs to be addressed.

The local authorities will be required to keep records. This is a laudable objective, yet the freedom of information Bill is flawed and is being challenged in the courts. Many local authorities do not have enough space to allow members of the public attend meetings, let alone keep records.

The Minister claimed that he was going to give leadership but then announced that a commission would be asked to carry out this task. Reference has been made to voting procedures but voting rights for emigrants have not been mentioned. This is not fair. There is to be a plebiscite on the issue of place names. Signs should be printed in both English and Irish and the Irish version should not be painted on later. This issue should also be decided in the plebiscite.

It is wonderful to talk about the need for reorganisation but there has been no reference to the financial implications. People with a criminal record will be disqualified from membership of local authorities. That is a move an angelic Minister would make. The investigation into the rezoning controversy came to nothing as it was conducted without offering an amnesty or giving witnesses any opportunity to come clean. This provision is a joke and the matter needs to be addressed more seriously.

The local elections due to take place in 1996 will not now take place until 1998. This is an insult since no elections have taken place since 1985 when the Green Party won its first seat on Killarney Urban District Council. I have been to the funerals of a number of town commissioners since than. I wonder how many councillors will expire, retire or emigrate, depending on what economic policy is pursued, before the next local elections.

Mr. Barrett

The money is too good.

Mr. Sargent

They may die from overindulgence. By delaying the local elections we are holding up progress. I represent Balbriggan as a Deputy and councillor but the Green Party is not represented on the town commissioners as no elections have been held since 1985.

If the elections are postponed until 1998 the Minister will have no option but to address the question of the dual mandate. This delay will allow those who have a dual or treble mandate and the local cumann to take stock and reorganise. They will also have an opportunity, in keeping with the recommendation of the Commission on the Status of Women, to encourage more women to participate in politics and prepare prospective candidates. It will further allow a smooth transition to a more modern system similar to the system operated in countries such as Denmark.

To an extent we are protecting Deputies. We need to consider the question of whether they should be allowed to to be councillors. We will not solve the problem by targeting the position of chairperson only; everybody should be treated in the same way.

The public have been hoodwinked. I would not single out the Minister whose public relations have been excellent. Candidates of other parties have made great play of the fact that they will serve the public at local, national and European level. They want to boast that they are members of a local authority, the Dáil and the European Parliament, let alone the town commissioners and the urban district council. This will lead to the public becoming even more cynical about politicians. To serve as an MEP, a TD, a councillor and a town commissioner at the same time is at variance with the principle of common justice, given the high level of unemployment.

The media have also been hoodwinked. The headline in The Irish Times today reads “Smith moves on dual mandate.” It is more of a jig or a waltz with much backsliding. The media were led to believe initially that the intention was to abolish the dual mandate. Next week we may see the headline “Smith moves on world hunger” when the Minister will hand out smarties. As he is aware, the Commission on the Status of Women demanded that the dual mandate be brought to an end in the interests of equity, justice and equality. I thought the Government had an interest in this matter given that the Minister for Equality and Law Reform was said to be in favour of this move and went to some trouble in pursuing this agenda. In this Fianna Fáil-Labour Party tiff it appears that he has not got his way. I urge him to stand by what is just and equitable before he flushes any remnants of credibility down the political toilet.

The Orwellian factor is preserved in this Bill. George Orwell argued that people are equal; it seems that all councillors are equal but in this Bill some are more equal than others. Likewise, some towns are more equal than others and get preferential treatment. No reference is made to Tallaght, a large conurbation the size of Limerick which has no urban district council or town commission. It seems that Limerick is the only conurbation worth recognising in County Limerick, even though Shannon across the border, with a population of 9,000, has town commission status and Kinsale in Cork, with a population of 2,000, has UDC status. It seems an anomaly. I know the towns of Balbriggan and Skerries very well. My home town of Balbriggan has town commission status while Skerries, a town of similar size, does not. Further down the road there are the much larger conurbations of Swords and Malahide which do not have similar status. Swords, with a population of 25,000, is being disregarded as is Donegal town with a population of 2,000.

There is much work to be done. Even if all the towns were equal and had proportionate representation, the fact that there is to be no financial implication makes it all a bit of a joke. Deputy Costello referred to the library service. It is good to see the library service being recognised. However, if there are not financial implications that recognition will not be worth very much. Skerries has only a part-time library and Portmarnock none. For towns of that size there is a need for something to be done. If many small town commissioners are created and no money is involved, it will be a licence for lethargy. If there is an authority, people will think they can get some work done, but if there is no money nothing can be done, resulting in more cynicism. I am inclined to support my colleague in the Labour Party, Deputy Broughan, who is calling for a revolution in local politics. It seems that unless the Government is prepared to take stock of reality, a revolution is what we will be looking at with Labour leading it — I do not know where Fianna Fáil fits in but, perhaps, the parties can discuss this.

If crime does disqualify Deputies, there is no doubt of the need for some serious investigation. The pseudo investigation — perhaps it is still taking place — seems to have wound up with no result. If that is the case, I urge the Minister to have a talk with his colleague, the Minister for Justice. It seems that crime may disqualify, but not if one can get away with it. The councils need to keep records but it is necessary to make changes in the Freedom of Information Act to take account of existing shortcomings before the courts decide otherwise because there are still questions to be answered.

Another aspect of the Bill that looks well in print relates to the voting procedure. Many emigrants retain a deep interest in the affairs of this country, an interest which we will be exploiting when the World Cup takes place, given that many of them live in America. Is it possible — I ask this hopefully — to extend the vote beyond these shores in local and other elections? We have hard-working diplomats in many of the countries to which our emigrants have gone. Foreign embassies here very often serve as polling stations for nationals who cannot get home to vote. I understand Italy flies her nationals home and, perhaps, it would be a good business for Aer Lingus to do something similar in respect of Irish nationals. In the meantime, let us look at some benign and cost-effective ways of allowing our people in other countries to have some say in the affairs of the country they would like to live in had they the opportunity. It brings me back to Orwell again who said all voters are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Faoil dheireadh thiar ba mhaith liom tagairt a dhéanamh do logainmneacha. Tá sé ráite sa Bhille go mbeidh athrú bunúsach sa tslí ina reachtáilfear logainmeacha má tá an t-athrú ag teastáil ón bpobal áitiúil.

Cuirim fáilte roimhe sin mar is ceart go mbeadh seans ag daoine i gceantar logainmneacha a roghnú iad féin muna bhfuil siad sásta leis na cinn atá ann cheana féin.

Ní dóigh liom go gcuirfeadh sé isteach ar éinne dá mbeadh na logainmneacha atá á roghnú as Gaeilge — nó as Béarla má tá Béarla ag teastáil.

Is minic a bhíonn na logainmneacha go dúchasach as Gaeilge. Feicimid timpeall na tíre an-chuid ainmneacha atá roghnaithe as Béarla. Ansin feictear go minic logainmneacha an-shuimiúla agus anghreannmhara ach an mhí-chruinn as Gaeilge.

Tá áit i mo cheantar féin, Man-O-War, cuir i gcás. Meán-Bhóthar an sean-Ghaeilge atá air. Ach is é an leagan oifigiúil Ghaeilge atá air ná Long Cogaigh.

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil sé sin ag teacht le brí dúchasach an logainm sin. Tá go leor samplaí mar sin mór-thimpeall na tíre. B'fhéidir gur rud beag é i gcomparáid leis na rudaí eile atá sa Bhille ach ba mhaith liom é a fheiceáil ann.

I ndáiríre táimid ag caint go bunúsach faoi chothrom na Féinne idir Gaeilge agus Béarla, idir fir agus mná sa pholaitíocht — agus tagann sin leis an dual mandate anois — agus cothrom na Féinne idir baile amháin agus baile eile. Tá go leor mí-chothoromaíocht ansin freisin.

Agus táimid ag caint faoi chothrom na Féinne idir comhairleoirí. Is ionann comhairleoir amháin agus comhairleoir eile. Ní ceart go mbeadh comhairleoir amháin lánaimseartha ag fáil an-chuid airgid ón Stáit mar Theachta Dála agus comhairleoir eile atá páirtaimseartha. Is faoin Aire a bheas sé cothrom na Féinne a chur isteach.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Browne,

Wexford): I listened with interest to the debate which ranged from Orwell to revolutions to dual mandates. There has been strong criticism of the Bill from all sides of the House, including Members of my party. The most fundamental issue of the Bill relates to local government structures which previous governments found too hot to handle. We must all be conscious of the vital importance of our towns to the economic, social, commercial, recreational and educational life of their wider hinterland and the nation as a whole. It is generally accepted in the neck of the woods that I come from that if our towns are not faring well the prospects for society in general are not promising. It is vital, therefore, that our towns should have the best possible structures and systems of local government.

Despite the dramatic economic and social changes which have taken place over the decades, and the extent of the legislation which has been enacted, the basic structures and systems of town local government have remained almost unchanged for nearly a century. As a result residents in over 50 towns are effectively disenfranchised because they happen to reside in areas just outside boundaries which do not take account of current circumstances.

There are town commissioners in 26 towns who were appointed under an Act more than 140 years old, the provisions of which are almost totally out of date in the modern era. Other centres of population do not have any local government structures. Those anomalies and other necessary reforms will be addressed as a matter of urgency under this legislation. The Bill will ensure that the town-based system of local government is retained. Any notion that the existing urban authorities might be abolished or replaced by a new tier of district authorities has been scotched by the Government and this Bill will be made law once and for all.

However, I doubt if any elected Members would dispute the need for other changes and improvements in the system.

We need to put in place a modern, efficient framework and a meaningful classification of authorities instead of the outdated and inadequate system built up over the past century and a half. The Bill addresses this by providing for the establishment of a reorganisation commission to carry out a review and make proposals for the reorganisation of local government and towns and for the implementation of such proposals. It will be the commission's duty to draw up proposals for future arrangements with an up-to-date classification for town authorities. It will produce a blueprint for the future role of local authorities, particularly town authorities, taking account of local differences, the functions, capacity and capabilities of various towns and their relationships with the county councils.

The commission will be properly constituted and the Bill makes it obligatory to have elected councillors from both urban and county authorities among its members. It will be obliged to carry out its work urgently, but without being forced to do a rushed job or produce half-baked ideas or proposals. There will be full and open consultation and the Bill specifically requires the commission to invite submissions from local authorities and to have regard to them. The commission's proposals must provide for safeguarding the position and capacity of county councils as the primary units of local government.

In the meantime there is an immediate need to renew the democratic mandate of urban authorities which have not held elections since 1985. As a former member of an urban council, I believe many urban councils have become stale and their members have held their seats for far too long without having to face the public. All councillors should have to face the public more frequently because, along with the council going stale, councillors and the public are taken for granted and towns may suffer.

I welcome the provision whereby elections will be held on the basis of enlarged boundaries, giving residents in the environs of various towns a say in the choice of town representatives for the first time. People in many large housing estates will be voting for the first time in urban areas in the forthcoming elections. It is argued that this will dramatically change the type of councillor on urban councils in the future. The population of some housing estates is large enough to elect two community candidates. The forthcoming elections will be interesting because the quota will be much higher and those who had reasonably safe seats in the past may find it more difficult to be elected this time. That is democracy.

I welcome the fact that those outside town boundaries paying water charges and so on to urban councils will now have a say in the choice of representative and in how the town should be run. Boundaries will be extended in a total of 54 towns and the new boundaries will be in force for the June elections. In general, there has been agreement among county councils in respect of town boundary extensions. However, there is some difficulty in cases where county councils cross county boundaries. While the county council and town councils in Wexford agreed on the extensions, in the New Ross area, where Kilkenny County Council extends into part of the town, agreement could not be reached. Not alone can we not agree on the GAA fields, but it appears we cannot agree on the extension of town boundaries. There are approximately 20 houses in New Ross under the jurisdication of Kilkenny County Council, but it would not agree to the extension of the boundary beyond those houses. That is ridiculous. I hope the Minister and his officials resolve those difficulties. I understand there are similar problems in Roscommon, Westmeath and elsewhere. It would be regrettable if town boundary extensions could not proceed because of such difficulties. County officials and public representatives should be above preventing town boundaries extensions based on fear of losing a few votes. Such extensions will not affect the election of TDs in general elections.

The Local Government Bill, 1994 is not solely about reform of town local government. It contains 70 sections and will repeal provisions in 78 enactments. For example, it will consolidate the law in respect of local elections and update provisions and procedures in that area. This will bring us a step nearer to the full consolidation of electoral law. The Dáil and Presidential codes were dealt with under recent legislation and the referendum code is the subject of a Bill currently before the Oireachtas.

Since I was elected to a local authority 13 years ago things have changed dramatically and change must also take place in respect of local authority representatives. Local authorities have been given a wide area of responsibility over the past ten or 12 years. They deal with tourism, education, social employment schemes, county enterprise boards, their initiatives and developments, coastal management, urban renewal, coastal erosion, holiday park developments, job forums, job creation initatives, European funds, traffic management, heritage and cultural centres and so on. The Minister is trying to allow councillors to take initiatives without having to look over their shoulders to know his thinking. He is anxious to extend additional powers to local councils and councillors.

Mr. Sargent

And keep the money.

Mr. Browne

(Wexford): Councillors must examine their role as they have greater responsibilities than they realise. There was much criticism of the power of county managers and executive officers of county councils but, as a former councillor, I believe councillors do not realise their powers and in some cases do not want to accept them.

In difficult areas they frequently stand back and allow county managers make decisions. If councillors want their powers extended they must face up to the responsibilities that go with that and have the courage to make difficult decisions if necessary.

The Bill continues and extends the Government's programme to give greater powers and discretion to local authorities by providing for the removal of further central controls. It creates a new broad by-law making power which will enable local authorities to regulate a variety of matters and activities where such regulation is considered desirable and in the interests of the common good of their local communities. That power will be exercised at the discreation of the local authorities without the need for ministerial approval, sanction or consent. The Bill gives comprehensive devolved powers to local authorities in the provision of facilities for amenities, recreation and library purposes, allowing for the repeal of the large body of outdated and restrictive legislation. The provision relating to the maintenance of local archives has been welcomed by Deputies on all sides. Deputy Nealon's contribution was positive in respect of this issue. At a time when more people are moving to live in towns and cities it is important that the culture and heritage of rural Ireland be protected. Local authorities have a major role to play in this area and these provisions will devolve powers to councillors to provide for that protection in the future.

Much criticism was voiced yesterday about the state of county roads. Because of the dispersed nature of our population county roads play an important role in our economic and social life. Adequate county roads are central to the development of local industry, agriculture, food processing and tourism. Despite that criticism the Government has shown an extraordinary commitment to infrastructural development, particularly that of non-national roads — the fabric of rural society.

No money was allocated by the State to maintain county roads for many years up to 1988. Total grants paid to county councils for non-national road works amounted to £39.3 million in 1988. Between 1989 and 1993 grants paid to county council for such works amounted to £336 million, an annual average of £67 million. Taking account of the contribution from local resources, total expenditure by county councils on non-national roads for the past five years was more than £600 million, an annual average in excess of £120 million. For every £1 spent by county council on non-national roads in 1988 the State paid more than 70p and for every £1 spent by county councils on those roads last year the State paid £1.40. Total grants to local authorities for non-national roads this year will amount to £101.9 million, an increase of £26 million on that expended in 1993, a record level of spending by the State in this area.

Responsibility for county roads rests with local authorities. While the Department provided 60 per cent of that funding in 1993, it does not intend to take over responsibility for them from local authorities. This year the Government decided to use some of the revenue generated by the tax amnesty to increase by £15 million the funds available for the maintenance of non-national roads. That increases the maintenance provision to an all time high figure of £28 million. That, combined with the provision for improvement works, will result in the 1994 allocation amounting to £102 million, an increase of 35 per cent on that of last year. Shortly, the Minister will announce details of specific grants for certain roads and will cover 100 per cent of the cost of local authority road improvement projects. Exchequer funding for those projects will amount to £33.6 million. Those allocations highlight the Government's commitment to funding local authorities for the maintenance and improvement of county roads. County managers, county engineers, county and town councillors must insist on value for money. This is important when one considers the large amount of money being spent on county roads and that they are still in poor condition. The manner in which such money is spent and the end product should be considered not only by the Department of the Environment but by councillors and officials. There is not a bottomless pit of money to fund county road maintenance. Therefore, it is important money is wisely spent and not used to fill potholes with tarmac which lasts only a few days.

I welcome the Bill. It goes part of the way to devolving powers to local councillors to run towns and councils. I hope councillors face up to their responsibilities, perform the roles given by the Minister, and will serve the people who elected them to the best of their ability by providing good services.

Mr. E. Walsh

As a member of the newly established South Dublin County Council I welcome the Bill. Its provisions deal with the election of borough corporations, urban district councils and town commissioners but, unfortunately, on this occasion will not have a great impact on the south Dublin area. An urban district council should be established for the new town of Tallaght and the historic one of Clondalkin. The provisions should be introduced when the new councils are well established and have attained the status of the remaining county councils.

I wish to refer to the provisions relating to libraries, by-laws, local records, the dual mandate and place names. Libraries provide an important recreational and information service. The new state of the art library in Tallaght, incorporated in the new civic offices, is welcome. Libraries have improved since they were first established as a means of imparting information and providing access to the written word for the public. Technology has been introduced in them. Local authorities, with State assistance, should provide information and encourage reading for pleasure through the medium of computers. Today, many people obtain information from the computer screen. The provision of books in libraries on computer would be useful to instil, particularly among young people, an appreciation of the value of the library service in enriching their lives. Research has shown that the way information was displayed on computer initally was not acceptable and that the format of a book page was the best one to present information for readers in libraries.

An important provision in the Bill allows local authorities make by-laws on matters affecting the common good of local communities. The Bill is a step forward in local government and, together with the Casual Trading Bill, will ensure the greater relevance of councils. South Dublin County Council has to deal with a constant inflow of travellers and is no longer able to cope with the problem. It is absurd that the number of travellers sites is no longer sufficient to cater for the people using them. We are developing unofficial sites to deal with this problem, which is particularly bad in south Dublin and does not compare with any other area. Because there are many open spaces in south Dublin it is an ideal place for travelling people to stop off. The cost of making provision for families on the site at the Square in Tallaght is more than £400,000. I hope that the proposed by-laws which will allow local authorities to control various aspects of their areas will help deal with the problem. If not, the Minister should consider the matter under the Bill.

I forgot to say that I wish to share my time with Deputy Kavanagh.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is satisfactory.

Mr. E. Walsh

Another problem in the new county of South Dublin is that of wandering horses. Recently on a Sunday morning I saw 23 horses in the lawn of a school in west Tallaght. I have been informed by that school that a number of its playing pitches has been completed destroyed by these horses and, despite having vast areas of open space available to it, the recreational facilities cannot be used. The Minister should consider procedures to impound wandering animals and the use of microchips to ensure identification of their owners. If necessary, he should provide that horses owned by continuous offenders are put down.

One of the most interesting aspects of the Bill relates to local records. I have a very keen interest in that matter and, as a member of the old Waterford Historical Society and the Crumlin Historical Society, am particularly pleased that the role of local authorities in dealing with the management, custody, conservation and inspection of local records and archives is recognised.

The question of the dual mandate has been addressed to a certain extent in the Bill. As a person who functions as a TD and a councillor I should be allowed to continue to carry out both roles in this manner. At the end of the day the people who decide whether the work is done satisfactorily are the electorate. If those holding the dual mandate do not function properly the electorate will very quickly make a decision on the matter.

I am pleased the Minister has provided for the changing of place names by plebiscite. Everybody involved in this project has experienced difficulty in establishing the identity of the rate payer in a household — the person entitled to vote — where the property is jointly owned. The legislation address this problem by providing that the person registered as an elector in the area is the person who is entitled to take part in a plebiscite. I welcome the change from a four-seventh majority to a simple majority as a further step in modernising the system.

This Bill is not a complete reform of local government but part of the process. I welcome the Bill and ask the Minister to seriously consider the difficulties in south Dublin either under this Bill or in other legislation.

Mr. Kavanagh

I thank my colleague, Deputy Walsh, for allowing me to contribute to the Bill. I welcome the Bill as a step in the reorganisation of local government. The provisions on the organisation of elections in urban and town commission areas are welcome — that is the basic purpose of the Bill. However, this is only part of the process of the reorganisation of the local government which commenced in the 1980s. A number of areas remain to be considered, not least of which is the financing of local authorities, which perhaps is one of the toughest decisions that must be made by the Minister and for which councillors will bear responsibility.

It is time to take a closer look at the operation of the managerial Act which was introduced at a time when councillors were not regarded as responsible enough to run local authorities — we have long since moved from those days. The powers and functions of administration of county managers and the reserve functions of councillors should be the basis of further reorganisation of local government. I will not go into that matter but it is an important aspect that must be considered. There is a difference between the powers councillors are perceived to have and those which they actually have to make decisions affecting their areas.

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle adverted to an article in today's edition of The Wicklow People by Senator Shane Ross which makes scandalous remarks about councillors in his description of the operation of local councils. I am amazed that a person who has been a member of a council for two years — obviously he has not contributed very much in that time to the operation of the local council — should make such remarks about councillors. His claims that houses are allowcated by local councillors, planning permission got through local councillors and development teams directed by councillors to provide jobs in their area are unacceptable. Councillors work for the electorate and influence decisions made under the powers given to them in local government Acts.

In my years as a member of Wicklow County Council I attended many housing meetings, as did the Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I tried to ensure that the housing programme was advanced to meet the needs of constituents and that houses were provided for the less well off. The allocation of houses is a reserve function of the manager, but managers may not know everything about an area and may receive inaccurate information. Councillors may inform the housing section on the accuracy of information in applications received. I hope none of my colleagues in the council say they can grant planning permissions because that is yet another functions of a manager and when we hold our planning meetings, the local information provided by councillors concerning the requirements of people wishing to build their own houses in a particular area or information regarding planning permissions for commercial or industrial activity is valuable in helping the county manager arrive at his decision. That is the function of councillors. They do not have power under the Managerial Act to give planning permission. Senator Ross would not seem to be aware of the knowledge and ability of ordinary individuals who approach a councillor about problems in their area. They are well aware that the granting of planning permission is not the function of councillors. The section 4 facility has been vastly changed in recent years under one or two new Acts and councillors cannot simply grant planning permission as may have happened in the past.

The question raised in the article today concerning the dual mandate must be considered on a broad basis. Becoming a county councillor is a sine qua non for someone wishing to become a Member of this House. If one is to survive as a Deputy one must keep in touch with the needs of constituents at local and national level. We cannot have “super” reprepresentatives in this House who will fill these benches hour after hour in debate. Thanks to my colleague, I have been allocated these ten minutes to contribute to this debate. As one of 22 backbench Labour TDs, I would normally get an allocation of less than half an hour in any one week to debate legislation passing through this House. One cannot walk into the Chamber and contribute on every Bill because sufficient time simply is not allocated to facilitate each Member. The work in this House, therefore, must be done either in committees or at party meetings held on a regular basis.

The position of a Dáil Deputy in a county council is a valuable one. In County Wicklow, the five TDs and two Senators living in that constituency are all members of the county council, comprising almost one third of its membership. If public representatives believe they should not be members of a council, they should simply resign their seat.

The work I do at council level is complementary to the work I do in this House. It is helpful for me to provide my local authority with information on legislation discussed in this House, whether it concerns the various areas of development for which county councils have a major responsibility, the area of taxation or local government decisions made in this House. In order to keep that balance between the administration and the local authority it is essential that Members have an interest and knowledge of the work of this House so that they can user such information for the benefit of their local authorities.

This Bill does not deal with the financing of local authorities. That area will have to be dealt with at some stage. An attempt to do so was made during my time in the Department of the Environment when we tried to improve the financing of local authorities. It was a disastrous decision which cost many members of the Labour Party and Fine Gael dearly in the subsequent general election in 1987. I refer, of course, to the imposition of service charges. These charges, however, are now accepted by all parties as one of the main ways of raising funding for local authorities.

It is unfortunate that in some local authorities, such as Wicklow County Council which has a small industrial and commercial rate base, the pressure to increase service charges grows every year. It would be more acceptable if the proceeds from the residential property tax were applied to local authorities, particularly in a county such as Wicklow where we have much highly valued residential property and a small industrial and commercial sector. Service charges remain our only source of income but nevertheless we are required to provide a high level of service to our expanding population of approximately 100,000 people.

A land tax Bill was passed in this House in the 1980s which would have provided local authorities with revenue from the agricultural sector. That area should be examined again. We have major problems with our county roads and funds must be raised through local charges. This problem is becoming increasingly difficult for all local authorities. It was always the view that the main functions of local authorities were to provide roads, houses, refuse collection, etc., but their functions have now extended into other areas such as development operations, pollution control and so on. Those areas are costly for a local authority if the necessary funding is not provided from central Government.

I recently received a reply from an assistant county engineer in response to a query concerning a problem on one of the county roads in Wicklow, which stated: "As you are aware, moneys for county roads have been substantially cut back and this is the cause of the poor conditions of this many other roads in the county". If we are to provide moneys for the unkeep of county roads, there must be a greater input by a way of local authority revenue in addition to funding from central Government.

When I became aware that £33 million was being made available from European funds for certain roads, I was under the impression that that funding was being made available for county roads but I believe it will be directed towards the building of roads to assist in the development of the tourism industry in addition to industrial development. If Wicklow receives £700,000, as we hope to do from this funding, £500,000 of that will be spent on the development of one road which should have been included in capital funding for national primary roads. I refer to the Bray by-pass. Surely it would have been reasonable to have expended some of that £500,000 on the development of the Shankill by-pass. I make that point because I intend to pursue the matter with the Minister.

I welcome the Bill. I am disappointed with the attitude of Senator Ross. He is a member of Wicklow County Council, a Member of Seanad Éireann, a stockbroker and a journalist. He believes that one should not engage in any other work if one is a Member of this House, yet has two or three other occupations. If one devotes oneself on a full-time basis to political duties, one must be prepared to serve one's constituents at every level.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment (Mr. Stagg)

Many Opposition Members seem to have taken a negative view of this Bill and I hope to redress that somewhat by highlighting its positive aspects.

On the last point made by Deputy Kavanagh concerning county roads funding, the funding this year is unusual in that it is in two tranches; we have the first tranche and the second is yet to come. I am sure he will get a positive hearing when he makes representations to the Minister regarding the cases he mentioned in Wicklow. The suggestion that there is a cutback in funding for roads is erroneous.

I refer to the statement made by Deputy Dukes yesterday when he complained that Newbridge town was not included in the boundary adjustment proposals in the Bill. Uncharacteristically, he did not check his facts before he made that statement. I am surprised he did not know that the boundaries of Newbridge were extensively extended in 1989 and will be extended when this election is held. People in the Newbridge catchment area are better off than those in other towns because they are included for all purposes and not simply for election purposes, as will be the position with other towns where the boundaries will change. Perhaps Deputy Dukes will take note that the population of Newbridge will have full voting and representation rights in the new council to be elected on 9 June.

Many speakers took a negative attitude to the Bill. The Bill is not to be taken in isolation but is part of a package of proposals for the reform of local authorities being put through by the Government. This is not the end of the reform.

Unprecedented progress has been made by the Government in the housing area. Virtually every type of household has benefited from our programme. In the Programme for Government we promised 3,500 local authority housing starts in 1993. This target was substantially exceeded and 3,800 starts were achieved last year. A further 3,500 starts have been provided for this year, which is almost three and a half times the level provided in 1992. In 1994 between the completions of the houses started last year and the starts this year 7,000 local authority houses will be under construction. We have not achieved that number for many years. It is a particular achievement that the greatly expanded local authority housing programme is being carried out without resorting to building large schemes on green field sites on the periphery of cities and towns. We are meeting our objectives in a way that promotes social cohesion and avoids undue segregation in housing provision.

We are providing local authority housing in smaller, more intimate surroundings in infill schemes. More and more we are purchasing dwellings so that tenants will be housed in established communities. In 1993 the number of houses acquired was 300. This was a real breakthrough and I look forward to a continuation of this trend in 1994.

The result of the expanded local authority programme will come on stream in 1994 as the higher starts translate into completion. Some 3,500 local authority houses will become available for letting this year in addition to casual vacancies and the expanded output under other schemes. In tandem with the major increase in the traditional local authority housing programme which, for me, is the cornerstone of social housing provision, we have provided for a significant expansion of housing activity in the voluntary sector in 1994. In 1993 almost 900 houses were provided by the voluntary sector under the rental subsidy and capital assistance schemes largely on land supplied by the local authorities at low or nominal cost underlining the level of partnership that increasingly exists between the local authorities and voluntary bodies. We would expect the contribution of the voluntary sector to increase this year to about 1,100 units; this compares with fewer than 40 houses ten years ago.

The progress we have made is demonstrated by the fact that between the local authority, voluntary and other programmes, together with vacancies arising in local authority rented housing stock, over 9,000 households in need of housing will be accommodated in 1994 and 1995. This compares with over 7,000 in 1993 and 6,100 in 1992. Thus, annual social housing provision will have increased by 50 per cent in two years, significantally improving general access to housing and shortening the length of time people are spending on waiting lists.

The Government has addressed not only the provision of housing for those on waiting lists; we also recognise the necessity to improve the conditions under which our local authority tenants reside. The local authorities have a duty to be good landlords to their tenants and significant steps have been taken in this regard. Of major importance is the drive to improve the day to day management of the public housing stock. The key to this is a partnership approach between the local authority on the one hand and the tenants on the other. The stakes are high with local authorities currently spending £80 million per year on the maintenance and management of almost 100,000 dwellings.

Section 9 of the 1992 Housing Act requires each authority to have a statement of policy for housing management and maintenance in their areas. This is a major reform. In these statements, authorities must address how their housing management and maintenance can be improved and tenant participation increased with the aim of achieving a more responsive and efficient housing service. The issues that authorities have been asked to look at by my Department include estate management, maintenance, general estate services, rent collection, lettings and tenant and resident involvement. Each statement had to set out the authorities' objectives on these matters, their plans for achieving them and the arrangements for monitoring performance.

I am pleased to say that the statements of many authorities acknowledge the need for, and indicate a commitment to, change — particularly in the areas of improved maintenance and increased tenant involvement. I am glad to see many initiatives on tenant involvement now taking place or planned for local authority estates around the country including Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Kilkenny, Wicklow and Roscommon. I want to see this type of action extended to other areas as quickly as possible.

I believe that a good statement of policy, followed by proper implementation, will result in better estates and more satisfied tenants. A good working partnership can only improve the running of an estate and lead to the better delivery of housing services on the ground.

A new tenant purchase scheme has been introduced for local authority tenants. This is a permanent scheme with a balanced range of discounts and allowances. The tenant purchase concept is good for local authority estates, creating stability and bringing home ownership within the grasp of many who could not otherwise aspire to it. Many local authority tenants are interested in buying and will now be able to achieve that goal.

The Programme for a Partnership Government also contains a commitment to the implementation of an accelerated programme of remedial works to local authority dwellings, to the provision of bathrooms in all remaining local authority dwellings lacking these facilities and to special attention being paid to the needs of inner city flat complexes. In 1994 the provision for the remedial works programme is £20.7 million, an increase of over 20 per cent on the record level of funding provided in 1993. The extra capital available will accelerate progress on the 70 or so existing projects and will also allow us to consider the designation of funding to a number of additional estates.

The allocation for the local authority bathrooms subprogramme was increased from £2.5 million in 1993 to £4 million this year. This extra funding will enable authorities to eliminate these deficiencies in their housing stock and ensure that local authority tenants will no longer have to put up indefinitely with the absence of such basic facilities.

I was particularly pleased with the allocation of £3 million out of tax amnesty proceeds to supplement the resources of local authorities in carrying out window replacement programmes for large flat complexes. The local authorities provided a further £3 million, which means we will replace £6 million worth of windows in the flat complexes affected.

Major reforms have been introduced in the private rented sector. All tenants must now be provided, by law, with a rent book. Since 1 January 1994, all private rented accommodation must comply with minimum physical standards. These are tangible improvements to the lot of tenants in this sector, people who previously have been virtually ignored. I am also preparing for the compulsory registration of all private tenancies as outlined in the Programme for a Partnership Government. I hope to make an announcement in this respect shortly.

Significant improvements have been made to schemes which directly affect the living conditions of the elderly and the disabled. The disabled person's grant scheme was approved last year so as to increase the funding available for adaptation works to dwellings occupied by the disabled. This year's budget provided increased funding to rectify the inadequate housing conditions of many elderly persons living alone. This was done through a doubling of the funds for the scheme of special housing aid for the elderly to £4 million in 1994.

The plight of the homeless has been tackled with renewed vigour. As a first step the moneys made available by my Department to local authorities for accommodating homeless persons was increased from 80 per cent to 90 per cent last year in line with the commitment in the Programme for a Partnership Government. We have also secured a significant increase in the amount of accommodation available for the homeless. This is particularly noticeable in the Dublin area where several new projects have come on stream.

These practical steps were not the only measures taken. Effective liaison between local authorities, health boards and voluntary bodies is vital if we are to have a properly co-ordinated response in place to deal with homeless persons. This has been constantly stressed since the Housing Act, 1988 came into operation. I am glad to note that local liaison committees, or housing fora as they are perhaps more commonly known, have been established in the major cities where homelessness is most apparent. They bring together in a planned way the various statutory and voluntary agencies involved in planning. More importantly, an after hours referral service funded by my Department has been set up for the homeless.

The policies pursued by the Government have had a beneficial effect on all households. Housing policy recognises that owner-occupation remains the most widely preferred form of tenure. It is accepted that the purchase of a house is a significant challenge and usually represents the single biggest investment made by a person. For this reason people building or purchasing their homes are assisted by my Department through the £3,000 new house grant and enjoy complete exemption from stamp duty when they build or buy modestly sized houses. In addition, there is the benefit of mortgage interest relief which helps reduce the burden of mortgage repayments. As a result of the special tax reliefs given to first time purchasers in the last two budgets, this relief is particularly favourable for first time buyers during the early years of their mortgage.

Thanks to the housing strategies of successive Governments, Ireland now has the highest level of home ownership in Europe with 80 per cent of households owning their own homes. The fact, that so many can realise this goal is something of which we as a nation can feel justifiably proud.

Affordability is, of course, the key to home ownership. One measure that has done much to overcome the affordability barrier for lower income households is the shared ownership system introduced in A Plan for Social Housing three years ago. This scheme allows those on lower incomes who cannot afford full home ownership immediately to buy their houses in two or more stages. A total of 1,000 households moved into their own homes as shared owners last year, and I expect that number to increase in 1994.

The general environment for those looking to become home owners has improved considerably over the past 12 months or so. The trend in mortgage interest rates during this period has been distinctly favourable — typical interest rates on variable rate mortgages are now below 8 per cent, the lowest for 30 years. There is little doubt that we will achieve a substantial increase in private house building in 1994 as the benefits of low interest rates come on stream. Lead indicators, such as the number of new registrations under the housebuilding guarantee scheme, are very buoyant and suggest that the numbers buying or building their homes this year will be significantly greater than in 1993.

Overall, therefore, the position of those awaiting social housing, wanting to buy their own homes and those who are tenants has improved very significantly over the last couple of years. The Government has delivered on the objectives set out in the Programme for a Partnership Government. I look forward to even more progress in the years ahead.

The Bill is one of a number of reforming measures being brought before the House by the Minister and should not be seen as a total package. Rather it should be taken in conjunction with the other measures which have been and will be brought before the House. I commened the Bill to the House.

Mr. Mulvihill

I wish to share my time with Deputy Seán Ryan.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Mulvihill

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this very important debate. It is vitally important that Members of this House should also be members of local authorities. Most people make representations to me in my capacity as a member of a local authority, all queries on housing are addressed to me in this capacity. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Stagg, on his excellent record in housing since he took responsibility for this area. He has gone a long way towards solving the serious housing problems which existed in all constituencies up to last year.

A great deal has been said about the need for reform of local government. We can change the titles, personnel and boundaries of local authorities but the real change needs to be made in the level of finance given to them. National roads have been significantly improved in recent years but county roads still require major upgrading. My local authority is being hampered in its efforts to develop the Cork east area for tourism by the appalling condition of the county roads. The heavy rainfall in recent months has caused much damage to roads in all areas. The level of funding allocated by central Government to local authorities for the maintenance of roads should be considerably increased. There is little point in making investment in machinery, etc., if adequate manpower, which can carry out the necessary work, is not provided. It is vitally important that the Minister give further consideration to the employment by local authorities of more people to maintain roads.

It is proposed to prohibit Members of Dáil Éireann from holding office in their local authorities. The Minister should reconsider this proposal. It is vitally important that any local authority member who is lucky enough to have his or her name put forward for chairperson should be able to take up that position. It is not right that some members of local authorities should be prohibited from taking up the position of chairperson simply because they are Members of Dáil Éireann. Local authority members know what is happening in their areas and the electorate expect their public representatives, especially TDs, to use their influence to get the best deal for them. People will be unwilling to elect Members of Dáil Éireann to their local authorities if they are prohibited from taking up the position of chairperson. It is vitally important that the Minister give further consideration to this proposal.

Excellent library services nationwide are provided by local authorities, especially those provided for our schools, in towns and in rural areas. The library service in County Cork is excellent. However, the prefabricated building in which the staff of Cork County Council work is in appalling condition and is totally unsuited to their needs. The county manager, Mr. Noel Dillon, is doing an excellent job, making every effort to provide a suitable building for these officials. This is an area that will have to be examined with a view to the provision of extra funding.

The Minister of State said that he had allocated quite an amount of money for the provision of bathrooms in houses that at present do not have them. While it is disgraceful that houses do not have bathrooms in this day and age, I know the Minister is committed to their installation in all houses.

We are all aware that landlords make colossal profits from derelict buildings when leased to unfortunate people seeking housing. I would like the Minister to introduce legislation which would prohibit such landlords from reletting them when a person is rehoused out of one of these buildings. These leeches are allowed to lease such buildings to unfortunate people in need of housing nationwide. We must compel these landlords to bring these building up to standard before reletting them.

In my constituency of Cork East a number of sewerage schemes await funding. For example, Whitegate and Midleton are calling out for such investment. In this respect I understand the plans for the Whitegate sewerage scheme have been on the Minister's table for some time past. I ask him to give this his immediate attention because the lack of such a scheme is causing severe problems in the area.

I agree with many of the provisions in this Bill. However, the Minister might re-examine the provision with regard to chairpersons or cathoirligh of local authorities which will cause Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas enormous problems if they are not allowed to take up such offices.

Mr. S. Ryan

I welcome this Bill and acknowledge the Minister's commitment to the long overdue reform of local government. When we compare our structure of local government with those of our European counterparts we find that over the past 30 or 40 years most of our European counterparts have been reforming and updating their local government systems thereby meeting the ever growing demand for greater democracy and participation by the people at local level. Here, in contrast, successive Governments have been reluctant to release their hold on power. That applies not only to Members of this House but also to officials and civil servants who always appear reluctant to release their hold on power, the net effect being that we have had one of the most centralised systems of government in Europe. However, I note that the Minister has grasped this nettle.

In this respect the provision of the Local Government (Reorganisation) Act, 1985, the Local Government Act, 1991, and the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993 together comprise reforming legislation. I have no doubt that the major reform of local government required in the future will necessitate the introduction of more legislation which, I hope, will be done sooner rather than later.

One matter that must be addressed urgently is the financing of local authorities. Arising from the enactment of the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993, passed in December last, I am proud to be the first Cathoirleach of Fingal County Council. When the Estimates were presented to the three new Dublin local authorities the reality of the position obtaining was brought home forcefully to us.

In the course of the 1985 local elections I said clearly I was opposed to the imposition of water charges. It was not an issue at the time of the last local elections but, in the run up to the last Estimates, we in the Labour Party and all members of other parties in Fingal County Council voiced our position to those charges. The Minister and Government were saying to us that since every other county nationwide is paying one or even two charges, it was up to us to introduce an Estimate or be dissolved. That was not a decision any of us wanted to take. I do not believe that the imposition of water charges alone will adequately cater for the finances of local authorities, not alone in the Greater Dublin area but nationwide where there has been, and remains, much opposition to their imposition.

We must remember that the rates support grant to local authorities has been drastically reduced over the years. Within any new structure the rates support grant to local authorities will have to be placed on a proper footing so that the people serving various local authorities, and councillors themselves, can be assured what will be their annual allowcation from Government, irrespective of whatever Government may be in office.

I have here a chart outlining the extent of this problem. For example, Dublin County Council received £31.1 million from the Exchequer in 1982. This figure was increased to £39 million in 1985, yet that 1993 figure had been reduced to £18.1 million. This clearly demonstrates the extent of the problem. While people are complaining to me that they are being asked to pay a charge this year it appears the Minister, irrespective of which Government may be in office, can decide to discount local authorities' requirements in any year and merely allocate them the same amount as the preceding year, entailing a huge reduction. How is that shortfall to be met by local authorities?

There was a commitment in the Programme for Government to the reform of local government now taking place — on which I compliment all concerned — but there was a specific commitment also to an examination of the funding of local authorities so that it would be uniform nationwide; this commitment must be met. As a backbench member of the Labour Party I am prepared to play my part at local level to devise a fair system, demonstrating to the people that we have a system in place that takes account of their ability to pay and our overall taxation system. I hope that commitment can be met. I welcome the provision for the library service and note that £2 million is being provided for the new books scheme. Generally the library service in my constitutency of Dublin North is poor. A static branch service is provided in Balbriggan, Malahide and Rathbeale in Swords. Skerries, which has a projected catchment of approximately 15,000 people, is in need of a new library. In 1987 the Department of the Environment gave approval for a library there but, due to lack of local authority finance, it was not possible to proceed with it. Will the Minister provide an increased allocation for the provision of new library services?

I am pleased that the Bill provides for the upgrading of Balbriggan Town Commission to an urban district council. I am pleased also that the recommendation of Fingal County Council and Balbriggan town commissioners concerning the proposed alteration of town boundaries has been included in the Bill. The outer town boundaries excluded hundreds of families during the past 20 years from participating in the town's democratic process. The residents of Pinewood Estate will welcome the opportunity to become involved and participate in the democratic system in Balbriggan.

The problem regarding the inclusion of developed areas in urban areas must be examined in the context of the overall structure of local government. Many commercial businesses are drawn to growth areas, such as towns and villages. If they are brought into a new urban council there will be major problems for county councils. For example, in the Fingal area we have 52 kilometres of national roads and 983 kilometres of county roads we must finance. The problems in relation to the condition of the roads must be addressed. On the basis of the estimate agreed and encouragement from the Minister, Fingal County Council has set out on an improvement programme for the next three or four years.

I compliment the Government on its commitment to local authority housing. A major problem exists in relation to vested cottages, which are generally occupied by senior citizens, many of which do not have bathroom or indoor toilet facilities. I plead with the Minister to introduce a house improvement grant scheme to target these areas as the Government met a similar requirement for local authority housing.

I compliment the Minister on the Bill and look forward to contributing at a later stage.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. M. Smith)

I thank Deputies who contributed, especially those who welcomed many of the provisions in the Bill. However, I was disappointed with the negative tone adopted by other Deputies, particularly the extent of the dismissiveness of the value of the extensive consolidation, updating and improvement of local government law provided for in the Bill, as if it were not the job of Parliament to ensure that this were done. It is surely the function of a Legislature to legislate and not to allow for the continuation of antiquated legal codes, in this case many of which predate the foundation of the State. Not only is the Bill an essential element of streamlining the system, it involves substantive and significant reforms.

I have spent just over two years in the Department of the Environment. We had contributions from individuals on the Opposition benches who served for seven or eight years in Government and yet had no interest in reform. Fine Gael was in Government for ten of the past 20 years and the only reforming measure it introduced was the Control of Dogs Act, 1986. I am proud of the work we are doing and it will continue.

In fairness, Deputies may be busy campaigning for the European elections and may not have had an opportunity to study the detail of the Bill and to recognise that, for the first time this century, we had an opportunity to extend town boundaries. For the first time, towns such as Balbriggan and Shannon could be upgraded to urban council status and Bray and Dundalk had the opportunity to be upgraded to borough corporation status. This is the first time that provision is made for councils in towns such as Maynooth and Celbridge. To try to describe those provisions as meaningless, in circumstances in which almost 100 years have passed without an effort to do that, disregards the facts.

Local government reform is, of necessity, an ongoing progressive exercise and is being pursued on a wide front. Not only did the Local Government Act, 1991 provide for changes such as the ending of the ultra vires rule but the same principle of giving greater power and direction to local authorities is reflected in other legislation on particular local authority services.

Various initiatives for social housing measures were introduced on a devolved basis. I should say to Deputy Barrett that we got the shared housing option through in the teeth of opposition, the avalanche of interest by the community overruled the political obstinacy put in its place by many Opposition members in the council. Thousands are interested in that scheme. I am not involved, it is a devolved scheme and is being continuously improved.

In the Road Traffic Bill we provide further powers to devolve the management of car parks, speed limits and so on to the county council and that approach is continued in this Bill where 37 areas of responsibility, which required ministerial consent up to now, are being removed.

I was disappointed to hear some Members speak despairingly and discouragingly about the inability of local authorities to achieve worthwhile results due to alleged lack of funding or powers. This is the sort of attitude which nurtures the mentality of the dependency culture — one of the single greatest obstacles to progress. In local authority terms this sometimes translates into a cry of "if only the Minister would give us more money we would do this, that or the other", often ignoring the fact that there are resources out there to be tapped — human and financial. There have been cases where local authorities, instead of trying to support and encourage local efforts, have pursued flagships of their own without having regard to, or even being in competition with, local community initiatives. This should not happen.

Deputy Durkan invited me to a tour of every local authority in the country. The Fine Gael Commission touched on the fact that Fine Gael was going in two different directions at the same time. That I can accept but Deputy Durkan is two years behind time, because I have done that already. It would be interesting if some of the developments taking place in other parts of the country were applied in County Kildare, for example, the museum and library recently developed by Dundalk UDC in an old distillery building where five different groups were brought together to carry out this beautiful development; the new museum-arts-heritage centre and library developed by Carlow UDC, the involvement of local authorities in the launching of the Cork-Swansea car ferry service; the new civic centre developed by Limerick Corporation; Wexford Corporation's European award winning museum and interpretative centre; the involvement by Kerry County Council and Waterford Corporation in the regional airports in their respective areas; the new municipal centre at Drogheda incorporating a library and arts centre; Kilkenny County Council's role in the Kilkenny civic trust development; the various tourism related amenity and heritage developments in which local authorities have been involved, such as the Ferrycarrig centre in Wexford and the Blennerville Windmill and Railway and Ashe Memorial Hall Heritage Centre projects in Tralee; various other enterprise centres, development companies, tourism initiatives, arts-heritage centres and other projects in which local authorities are involved making a significant contribution to employment, tourism and local development. Urban renewal projects are being actively pursued by some local authorities alone or in partnership with private, community and other groups. These results were achieved within the system of funding and functions already available to local authorities. I hope that the extended powers being given by this Bill for the development of amenities and facilities will further free up the system to encourage further progress in these areas. There are opportunities to be identified, grasped and developed for the good of local communities. This does not come from negative thinking trapped within the restrictive, dependency-centred and antiquated legal framework which I am now sweeping away.

Reference was made during the course of the debate to alleged lack of powers of elected members vis-à-vis managers. This fails to take account of the extensive additions which have, and are being, made to the list of functions reserved to councillors. On the basis of a very quick count last night, I reckon that between the present Bill and provisions of the 1991 Act a total of about 30 extra reserved functions are provided. This even understates the true position because, included in this number are broad ranging provisions, such as the exercise of general competence and representational functions which, in turn, unlock potential for decisions by elected members in a vast range of areas.

Apart from specific reserved functions, it should be remembered that the elected members have control of overall local authority policy, including financial aspects. It is, particularly sad, therefore, to hear some Deputies complain about the power of managers in the adoption of local authority estimates, when since 1955, the elected members have had power to take fully into themselves the role of drawing up annual estimates.

Much discussion centred on the question of the dual local-national mandate. A number of speakers have even alleged that I conjured up this issue out of thin air. Let me put the record straight. In December 1990 the Barrington report recommended as follows:

To distinguish clearly between the roles of national and local government there should be a statutory prohibition on Members of the Oireachtas and on MEPs from simultaneous membership of local authorities. This is also seen as having benefits at the national level by ensuring a better focus on national issues.

In 1992 a Council of Europe report stated:

There is currently a noticeable trend towards restrictions on multiple office holding. In one country, for instance, political parties no longer place candidates who already hold elective office on their lists. In other countries draft legislation designed to limit the possibilities of multiple office holding is under discussion.

Last year the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women was published. It was a unanimous recommendation of that commission that the dual local-national mandate should be eliminated.

It is against this background, and of the views of local authority members who are not Oireachtas members, that an examination of the dual mandate was carried out. Could some Deputies be unaware of this background? I have concluded that a blanket prohibition on dual membership would not be appropriate at this stage, although I have heard a number of speakers argue in its favour. Instead, the Bill provides for the further extension of the process begun in 1991.

From boths sides of the House speakers have mentioned the heavy burden of work attaching to local authority mayorality and chairmanship. In recognition of this, a system of allowances for these posts was introduced by the Local Government Act, 1991. These are the premier positions in local government and it is appropriate that the holders should not be diverted by attendance to national duties with the very heavy demands imposed by these Houses particularly as they are modernised and as a fully fledged committee system is developed. Indeed, I note a Deputy this morning referred to having consulted his councillor colleagues in this regard and their view was that this was the correct approach.

Local authority funding has been raised by a number of Deputies. This year local authorities will spend over £1.6 billion. It is to be expected that, in an effort to improve and expand the range of local services, local authorities would wish to have the level of State grants increased. Calls for increased spending on any service must be seen for what they really are — calls for more taxation, or for expenditure cuts elsewhere. Even Deputies opposite cannot evade this reality.

Many genuine demands compete for scarce resources, but the Government must take full account of the reality that there is no bottomless well of resources to meet all demands. I have gone out to local authorities all over the country and heard at first hand their concerns about improving services. I acknowledge these concerns but I have had to explain the finite limit of the resources available for day-to-day spending. The Government's aim is to reduce, rather than increase, the overall level of taxation and achieve a fair allocation of the overall resources available. Local authorities are getting a resonable share of these resources in present circumstances and I will continue to represent their interests and defend their right to that fair share against all other demands from any quarter. Deputies will have to accept that the level of local authority funding is at the level the country can afford.

There has been no stage in our history when there was so much activity on our national primary roads and even though the National Roads Authority are now in charge, the agents for doing that work are the local authorities. There has been no stage in our history when so much has been happening on the housing front, that is development on housing that has been paid for. In the past there was as much activity but it was on borrowed money. This time it is being paid for.

Mr. Durkan

The Minister must be under hypnosis.

Mr. M. Smith

There has never been a stage in our history when the range of housing options adopted by local authorities was so extensive.

Mr. Rabbitte

What about the 30,000 on the housing waiting list?

Mr. M. Smith

In his absence I was trying to bring Deputy Durkan up to date with the present position.

Mr. Durkan

I was watching the Minister.

Mr. M. Smith

Members have had an opportunity over the past two days to discuss matters on this Bill but now that I am replying I want to make two or three points. Public meetings are being held around the country on the condition of our county roads. I know the condition of many of our county roads is unacceptable. That is why I fought last year for an additional £12 million to be allocated to county roads. Because of the continuing bad weather conditions in December and January we decided to allocate an additional £15 million in the budget for this purpose. I was scoffed at by Fine Gael when I went to Europe looking for Euro funds for this purpose, but I am glad to be able to report that there is agreement for co-finance of £226 million for county and regional roads over the next six years.

Mr. Durkan

I knew there was a sting in the tail.

Mr. M. Smith

At the end of six years from now between State, local and Euro resources in the region of £1 billion will have been spent on county roads. Fine Gael was the major partner in two Governments over a ten year period and not a penny did it provide for the maintenance of county roads.

Mr. Barrett

That is nonsense.

Mr. Durkan

As well as being hypnotised the Minister cannot read history.

Mr. M. Smith

Not as much as a penny was provided.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Durkan will have to restrain himself.

Mr. Barrett

It is very hard to restrain oneself when the Minister is not living in the real world.

Mr. M. Smith

They voted against the provision of an additional £15 million this year for county roads. That is not the end of the story. They also voted against the Estimates for roads at local authority level and now have the audacity to say at public meetings that they will provide more money for county roads even though they will not be in power and have never done this when they were.

Mr. Barrett

The Minister needs a new programme manager.

Mr. Durkan

The Minister reminds me of Nero.

Mr. M. Smith

I intend to fight to increase the level of funding for county and regional roads as the people are entitled to better roads. As Minister for the Environment, I will ensure that the work we will carry out during the next six years will be to the satisfaction of the public. We treat this subject seriously; not as a cynical vote-getting exercise.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Rabbitte

The Minister should tell that to Deputy O'Donoghue.

Mr. M. Smith

The majority of Deputies are in favour of the major changes which are to be implemented. There are differences of opinion on some issues. Between now and Committee Stage we will have to reconsider a number of aspects but the general thrust of the Bill is acceptable. It is an exceptional reforming measure under which towns without local authorities may decide to have them. The party opposite decided not to introduce such a provision.

The Dáil adjourned at 2.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 19 April 1994.

Dáil Éireann debate - Friday, 15 Apr 1994

Local Government Bill, 1994: Second Stage (Resumed).

Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 15 Apr 1994