Jim O'Keeffe
Question:1 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach whether he has had discussions in the United States in relation to Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - United States Visit.
Jim O'Keeffe
Question:2 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach his response to the latest points of clarification on the Joint Declaration of 15 December 1993 sought by Sinn Féin; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Jim O'Keeffe
Question:3 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his discussions on Northern Ireland with President Bill Clinton; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Enda Kenny
Question:4 Mr. E. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if, during his recent visit to the United States, he extended an invitation to President Bill Clinton to visit Ireland when he is visiting England and Europe; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:5 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he has received a list of questions from Sinn Féin requesting clarification of aspects of the Joint Declaration by himself and the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major of 15 December 1993; if so, if he has passed these on to the British Government; if he has received any response from the British Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:6 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his discussions regarding Northern Ireland with President Bill Clinton during his recent visit to the United States.
Pat Rabbitte
Question:7 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent visit to the United States with particular regard to any discussions he had regarding investment or job creation in Ireland.
John Bruton
Question:8 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to the United States and his meeting with the President of the United States, Mr. Bill Clinton.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, together.
I made a short but successful visit to the United States from 12 to 15 May. As is the case with all my visits there, I sought to advance two principal objectives which mirror the two top priorities of this Government.
First, I availed of every appropriate opportunity to promote the efforts of the Irish and British Governments regarding advancement of the peace process and the development of an agreed political settlement. Second, I sought, in direct contacts with some US business leaders, to promote increased investment into Ireland, increased exports to the United States and, on that basis, increased job creation. The visit, though short, was very successful in terms of both objectives.
On Northern Ireland, I used every appropriate occasion to consolidate the overwhelming support which exists in the United States for the balanced set of principles of the Joint Declaration, for the ending of all forms of violence, and for the development of a political settlement. I regard as particularly significant the widespread and solid support of the Irish-American community. The overwhelming majority of them are anxious to assist the advancement of the peace process and are willing to use their considerable influence to that end. It was particularly appropriate, therefore, that my commencement address at the conferral of an honorary degree ceremony by the University of Notre Dame focused on Northern Ireland.
Notre Dame is a distinguished institution of academic excellence which enjoys a strong historical association with Irish America. Thus, my address at the conferral ceremony afforded me a unique opportunity to help harness the enormous influence and goodwill which exists among Irish Americans for this country. I therefore set out in a clear and balanced way the efforts of the Irish and British Governments in terms of realising the heartfelt desire among our peoples for an end to the corrosive evil of violence. Within this context, I also promoted the intensive discussions currently under way between the two Governments on a joint framework document as a basis for a resumption of the three-strand talks process leading, it is hoped, to an agreed political settlement that could be accepted by all sides as fair, balanced and just.
As Deputies will be aware, I had a meeting in Indianapolis on 14 May with President Clinton. The President was most anxious to be brought up to date on recent developments relating to the peace process and the Northern Ireland situation generally. Within this context, he expressed a particular desire to be informed of the position pertaining at that time in regard to Sinn Féin's requests for clarification of the Joint Declaration from the British Government. I told the President that his personal interest and full support for the joint efforts of the two Governments to advance the peace process in a source of great encouragement to all of us. It is important that the momentum for peace is sustained and, therefore, great importance attaches to his support in this regard.
I informed the President that on numerous occasions I had called on Sinn Féin to spell out clearly those points needing clarification, so that they could be responded to objectively. Sinn Féin, in response, had forwarded to me, through a community leader, a list of points on which clarification was sought from the British Government. When I had satisfied myself that the points to be forwarded could be legitimately answered without entering into negotiation, I conveyed them to the British Government in the expectation that the responses, as well as the questions, would be made public by them shortly afterwards. The President shared my hope that this development would bring to a close the long drawn-out process of clarification.
He was very grateful for the update which I provided on the Northern Ireland situation and, in the course of our discussions, he stated on a number of occasions that he and his administration stand ready, at any time, to help in the most constructive way possible the efforts of the two Governments to achieve lasting peace and durable political settlement. The Government are deeply appreciative of this rock-solid support. Our discussions also covered recent developments relating to the Israeli-Pale-stinian peace agreement, as well as the prospects for a new era of peace and stability in South Africa following the recent elections there.
On the issue of the clarification of the Declaration which the British Government have provided, this response, when taken in conjunction with the very substantial clarification previously given by both Governments, is sufficiently comprehensive and positive to move the peace process forward a decisive step. I regard the protracted process of clarification as being effectively concluded, this opening the way to the next stage in the peace process which is a decision by all those concerned to bring paramilitary violence to an end.
For both Governments, a permanent cessation of violence is required so that all parties can participate fully in the shaping of a new agreed future for all the people on this island. That, in essence, is the challenge and the opportunity for Sinn Féin. The conditions are now uniquely suitable for that party to partake in full democratic engagement towards the realisation of lasting peace with justice in Ireland. I, therefore, welcome Sinn Féin's commitment to consider carefully and meticulously the response of the British Government, but in the meantime, there should be no more killings.
I have made clear on many occasions in the past that peace also demands a permanent halt to the violence being waged by loyalist paramilitaries. Both campaigns of terror are equally reprehensible and utterly futile. What political objective can possibly be advanced by the indiscriminate killing of innocent Catholic youths, by the attempt at mass carnage in Dublin over the weekend, or by blowing up a cleaner and leaving his three year old daughter's life hanging by a thread for several days before showing signs of a welcome recovery? It must surely be clear that no Irish Government will ever seek to coerce the people of Northern Ireland into a united Ireland against the wishes of a majority there. Rock-solid commitments exist in that regard. I reject any attempts by the loyalist paramilitaries to justify their actions as a demonstation against any coercion of Unionists. Even the Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis confirmed its rejection of coercion against the Unionists. Therefore, the loyalist paramilitaries should take fully on board Mr. James Molyneaux's statement of Friday last and call an immediate cessation to their campaign of terror.
Regarding a possible visit to Ireland by President Clinton, I have already formally invited him to visit here. The President has responded that he would very much like to do so at a mutually convenient time. I know that the House would very much share my hope that a visit here by such a special friend of Ireland will take place in the not too distant future.
As I already stated, I availed of my short visit to the US to promote Ireland, wherever appropriate, as a location for US investment as well as the provision of a broader base for increased exports in both the manufacturing and services areas. To this end, I had discussions with a number of US business leaders who are seeking to expand their overseas operations. I placed special emphasis on the advantages which Ireland, as a gateway to Europe, can offer to US multinational firms. While it would be inappropriate to give full details of these meetings, both Abbott Laboratories and Motorola confirmed to me in Chicago their decisions to expand their operations in Ireland. These and other recent announcements by a number of US multinational firms to establish manufacturing bases or expand their existing operations here testify to the real economic worth of such visits.
The level of inward investment this year has been quite exceptional and I am very glad to have been able to play some part in helping to bring to fruition particular projects, such as the new FINEX Exchange in the International Financial Services Centre.
I thank the Taoiseach for his comprehensive reply. Is the Government satisfied that the clarification process has reached finality? Does the Taoiseach see loyalist violence as being reactive to the IRA or does he believe they are pursuing their own agenda? What additional measures has the Government in mind to counteract the spread of such violence? The best approach now would be for the two Governments to agree the joint framework for a comprehensive political settlement. Does the Taoiseach expect this to be agreed at this meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major, later this week and, if so, when does he expect the proposals to be presented to the constitutional parties for discussion?
I regard the clarification issue as closed. For a period, loyalist violence was reactive but it is now proactive. I do not know what agenda it is following. The statement issued after claiming responsibility for the Dublin bombing, saying it wanted to demonstrate it would not succumb to coercion, does not stand up. That issue was dealt with unequivocally in the Downing Street Declaration and, in response to a challenge by me, Sinn Féin made it clear at its Ard-Fheis that it was not pursuing a policy of coercing loyalists into a united Ireland. I do not know its agenda but I hope political leaders in the North will repeat that message to their people and they might see that it is futile to engage in that type of violence. We have had violence for 25 years and it has not succeeded in advancing the cause of either community.
The framework document being put together by both Governments is well advanced and it is our expectation that it will be completed before the end of June.
Can the Taoiseach reconcile the sweet words of Sinn Féin in favour of the peace process with the actions of the IRA over the last week? Will he permit Sinn Féin to spin out the consultation process indefinitely? As regards his comment that loyalist violence is no longer reactive does he agree loyalist paramilitaries believe they can shoot and bomb their way to the conference table as well?
It is a matter for the Unionist population to decide who represents them on a political basis. They have ways and means of electing their own people. I do not know what the Deputy means by "sweet words". I have used a balanced approach to the complex situation in the North.
I was not talking about the Taoiseach but about Sinn Féin.
If the question does not refer to me it should be directed to where it can be answered. I am not in a position to answer for either side. I took the view from the beginning that it must be even-handed and balanced. The members of both communities must be taken on board in an even-handed manner, otherwise there will not be progress. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that, unfortunately, loyalist violence is proactive.
Is the Taoiseach aware that despite the peace process more people were killed in the first five months of this year than in the first five months of last year? Is he further aware that loyalists are imitating apparently successful IRA tactics? Can he not see that any process which rewards an organisation which is still using violence, such as the IRA, with political recognition encourages other organisations like loyalists to imitate what has been successful for the Provos?
I do not understand how Deputy Bruton can say IRA violence has been successful — it has been in existence for 25 years and it is as futile today as it was the day it started. I do not understand the point he is trying to make in that regard. If he is suggesting that no effort should have been made by either Government in pursuing a peace process. I totally disagree with him, as would the vast majority of Irish people. The number of people killed is a fact of life——
It is a fact of death.
——it is not a question which needs to be commented on by me. It is regrettable that any life should be taken. The challenge open to all of us is to try to change the minds and hearts of people who regard their cause as more important than the lives of people.
Would the Taoiseach not agree——
Order, please, I call Deputy Jim O'Keeffe who tabled a number of the questions before us.
I will defer to Deputy Bruton.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the IRA has achieved a measure of success when he quotes with approval from the proceedings of a Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis, as he did here today?
Shameful.
Is that not a sign that the Provos and Sinn Féin, the one and the same organisation, are achieving political recognition while using the gun? Unfortunately others are now seeking the same reward. The Taoiseach is dealing with an extremely dangerous situation for everyone living on this island. We need an entire revision of our current policy position.
Brevity, please.
It is regrettable that Deputy Bruton would try to raise the level of tension which already exists in regard to violence——
Are we supposed to remain calm?
We are not living in a vacuum.
May I have some silence, please? I listened to Deputy Bruton with interest and the Deputies may listen to me, if they so choose.
We listened to the Taoiseach for quarter of an hour.
If Deputy Bruton is seriously suggesting that the people carrying out the violence in both communities should not be challenged by all political leaders, including me, I do not understand his reasoning. I will continue to challenge any statements of perceived justification by either loyalists——
I did not challenge——
The Deputy challenged me as to why I should challenge Sinn Féin to declare openly at its Ard-Fheis that coercion was no longer a policy.
The Taoiseach took praise and comfort from the Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis.
I challenged Sinn Féin in that way and I will continue to do so. I am glad I got——
The Taoiseach quoted with approval, as he did before——
If Deputy Owen would pay a little attention——
This is too serious a business for these interruptions.
A Deputy
Of course it is.
The Deputy may have a chance later.
I challenged Sinn Féin to state clearly and unequivocally at its Ard-Fheis that it was not its policy to coerce unionists to join a united Ireland. This was very important from the point of view of unionists and loyalists who continually make the point that they are fearful of being coerced into a united Ireland. It is important to have all these statements on the record.
As I have done today in the House, I will continue to challenge both sides. I will challenge loyalists to issue what they may perceive as justification for the bomb in Dublin which, in their first statement, they said was to demonstrate quite clearly that they would not accept or succumb to coercion. The Joint Peace Declaration makes it clear that there will be no coercion, and Sinn Féin, which is engaged in the conflict in Northern Ireland, has said coercion is not on its agenda. What is the justification for planting bombs in Dublin when the whole issue of coercion has been clearly and unequivocally dealt with by both Governments and by the other paramilitary organisation?
Is the Taoiseach seriously suggesting——
Order, if time permits I will bring in the Deputies who have indicated to me that they wish to comment on this matter. I call on Deputy Bruton for a brief question.
Is the Taoiseach trying to tell the House that coercion is not on the Sinn Féin-IRA agenda?
I ask Deputy Bruton to refer to the statements issued by Sinn Féin after their Ard-Fheis in response to a challenge issued by me——
What about its actions?
——to state clearly and unequivocally whether coercion was part of its agenda.
What about its actions?
I am referring to its statements.
Is the Taoiseach an apologist for that organisation?
I do not apologise for any of them.
Apart from sending out a political message that violence will not achieve any purpose, will the Taoiseach assure the House that whatever additional security measures can be taken will be taken to ensure that loyalist violence is contained so far as possible? In regard to the Taoiseach's reply that the agreed framework between the two Governments should be ready for presentation to the parties before the end of June, will he confirm to the House that irrespective of the decision of Sinn Féin-IRA, those proposals will be presented to the constitutional parties and that if Sinn Féin-IRA do not agree to a cessation of violence, the scene will shift back to the constitutional parties and discussions will get under way so far as the Irish Government is concerned?
It should be made very clear — I have said this on a number of occasions but the message does not seem to be getting through — that neither Government is standing aside and giving centre stage to the paramilitaries. We are continuing to advance the framework document. There is nothing to stop the parties getting around the table tomorrow if they so wish. Deputies should ask what parties are refusing to come to the table and direct attention and pressure to those areas. The Irish Government is ready to sit around the table at any hour of any day, as are the SDLP and the Alliance Party. According to them, the Official Unionists are not yet ready to go back to the table. The Irish Government, the SDLP and the Alliance Party are not holding up the talks process.
Work on the framework document has been continuing for some considerable time and we expect it to be concluded by the end of June. In no way are we standing back, as the Deputy and others have put it, and waiting for a decision by Sinn Féin or the loyalist paramilitaries. We will go ahead with that process irrespective of whether they respond.
The clarification issue has been completed and is out of the way and the next decision required is one which will lead to a cessation of violence so that the peace process can go ahead. Irrespective of the decisions made by Sinn Féin and the loyalist paramilitaries, the two Governments will not be deflected from pursuing the peace process. As soon as we are ready for the talks the document will be put on the table and one would hope that by then all parties would be in a position to join the talks process.
Deputy Michael McDowell for a brief question.
Will the Taoiseach agree that Sinn Féin is the tool of the IRA, the blood stained hand of the IRA, that it is not the other way around? Will he agree also that Sinn Féin and the IRA are engaged in coercion, that the blowing up of the cleaner and his little child was coercion and nothing else? Will he further agree that, with perhaps the sole exception of himself, nobody in this House takes seriously what was said in Tallaght? Finally, will he agree——
There must be brevity at this stage.
——that it is about time groups were prohibited and dissuaded by the Garda from organising, in inner city areas of my constituency and other events which are described as "in relief of prisoners of war", the organisation of which, apparently, the IRA plays a leading part? Will the Taoiseach give some indication of the steps he proposes to take to ensure that such events do not recur?
The Minister for Justice and the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs as well as Sir Patrick Mayhew, the Northern Ireland security forces and the security forces in the South co-operate excellently in this matter and they are continuing their discussions on how security can be improved. In spite of the large number of soldiers involved in the effort to police the situation in Northern Ireland, unfortunately day after day terrorists on either side both break through security cordons and plant bombs or shoot people. Yesterday, at the canal launch which was attended by many high ranking people, a bomb was found up river. We have to be realistic about this issue, every effort is being taken and people have to be vigilant.
On the other part of this question, Deputy McDowell misunderstands and misreads the situation more often then anyone I know.
The feeling is mutual.
One has to understand the fears and suspicions of both communities and, indeed, their inward thinking. If the Deputy spoke with those people as often as I do he might have a better appreciation of what is in their minds. It is mistaken to think that one will achieve a cessation of violence without addressing the fears of both communities and the reasons they put forward in justification of some of the dreadful murders carried out time and time again. I have never accepted those reasons. Repeatedly in this House I have condemned those outrageous, sectarian, vicious murders as much as anybody else. To endeavour to put forward any other perception of it amounts to self-deceit.
I regret some of the less than precise language used by the Taoiseach today which has led to a difference of opinion in the House which was not evident on previous occasions and which is particularly out of keeping in view of the events which occurred in this city last Saturday night. We could be mourning the loss of more than 200 lives. Would he agree that the difference between the clarified Downing Street Joint Declaration and what Sinn Féin-IRA appears to be asking is not worth a single finger, whether on this or the other side of the Border? Would he agree that the fact that Sinn Féin-IRA have not declared a cessation of violence is a strong indication of something I have believed for some time, which is that there is an element in that organisation which has decided that their only way forward is by sectarian confrontation? That is what they are aiming for and they are delighted at what was attempted in this city on last Saturday evening. Finally, would he demand, on behalf of a unified Dáil, that Sinn Féin-IRA — one cannot differentiate between them — at the very least should call an immediate ceasefire?
Hear, hear.
I have already said and am quite happy to repeat that this House unanimously calls on the total republican movement and on the loyalist paramilitaries for a total cessation of violence because that in which they are engaged is not worth the taking of a single life. I have already said so in previous answers here today.
That is the tone this House should be displaying today.
That is the tone I am displaying. If some others choose to endeavour to shift ground or in some way to take from the peace process in which the two Governments are engaged, so be it. I will continue on the road I have taken. I have said for quite a long time that the Downing Street Joint Declaration addresses the suspicions and fears for the future of both communities, and, consequently, there is no need for anybody to endeavour to justify any acts of violence. I repeat that the challenge to all political leaders, North and South, is to endeavour to change the minds and hearts of those people who feel that their cause is more important than the taking of a single life. I could not agree more with Deputy Currie that there should not be another life lost. Between the Downing Street Joint Declaration and its clarification, it has been made quite clear to both communities that their fears have been addressed, that they can lay down their arms, get around the table and work out an accommodation so that there will be no need for violence by either community in the future.
In relation to the second item on the Taoiseach's agenda in the United States, namely inward investment, I welcome his statement that he had discussions with the Motorola Corporation in Chicago with a view to their extending their operations in Swords in north County Dublin, fully realising the unemployment in that area. While it might be a matter of some amusement to Deputy Michael McDowell, whom I see smiling——
The Deputy is like the US cavalry up on the hill letting them off the hook.
——I can assure him that to the people of north county Dublin and those who have no jobs unemployment is a major issue, as is inward investment. While I welcome the Taoiseach's discussions with the Motorola Corporation, will he ensure that those discussions are brought forward as a matter of urgency so that we may see additional employment in an area which has suffered so badly from redundancies in Aer Lingus and elsewhere? When does he expect further information on the extension of Motorola's operations here?
I had a very constructive meeting with Motorola who are very satisfied with the progress they have made at Swords in County Dublin and in Cork. They confirmed that they will be expanding their operations at Swords and that much needed jobs will be provided there. They are a very successful, progressive company, whose markets are expanding. Details of their expansion plans will be announced in due course by the Minister for Enterprise and Employment.
Before Deputy Ray Burke seeks to ring the wagons, may we revert to what is in the minds of people in Dublin this week? Is the Taoiseach still reluctant to name a deadline for an end to the artificial consultation process of Sinn Féin/IRA? Having regard to the fact that loyalist violence has accounted for more than half the deaths so far this year, will he say whether the two Governments have any specific proposals to address its underlying causes and whether he has any intention of meeting the British Prime Minister soon?
The underlying causes of the violence should be clear to everybody at this stage. They are very clear to me and to anybody who takes time to study them, to listen to the people who are suffering as a result. On the one hand, the people on the Nationalist side have been subjected to coercion — if one might describe it as such — in being part of a Northern state they never wanted to be part of and see themselves as having been treated as second-class citizens over the past 50 years, or more. They believe they are not afforded the parity of esteem they believe they are entitled to. On the other hand, the Unionist community are not certain where their future lies vis-à-vis the British Government. The Downing Street Joint Declaration addressed those fears and their underlying causes, and set out the way forward. Deputy Michael McDowell can shake his head and smile at a very serious, complex matter if he so wishes——
I am surprised at the banal superficial analysis in which the Taoiseach is engaging. It is pathetic.
If the Deputy wants to make a laugh of this he can, but I am sure the House would agree with me that one must address the underlying causes and talk to the people involved in both communities, the people suffering from the violence. When one studies the contents of the Downing Street Joint Declaration, one sees that the underlying causes of violence are addressed. Until the men of violence can be convinced by the people supporting them or giving them succour that they should cease and allow the democratic process take place, that will remain the challenge confronting us. Nobody ever thought it would be easy, or that one could switch it off at the flick of a finger. I want to confirm that both Governments are not waiting for Sinn Féin to go through their consultative process.
Is there any deadline?
We are saying they can call off the violence today and take, three months or six months for their consultative process if they so wish. That is the position as we see it. The two Governments will continue our framework programme, as soon as it is ready, with or without them. We should like to think that, by then, there would be a cessation of violence with, hopefully, all parties sitting at the one table.
Would the Taoiseach agree that he is beginning to appear increasingly naive when, five months after the Downing Street Joint Declaration, with more killings since then than in the preceding five months of last year, he still seems to think that the loyalist terrorists and the republican terrorists are amenable to the sort of reasoning he has been putting forward here, bearing in mind that both of them are steeped up to their knees in rackets and make a living from crime and killing? These organisations have no intention of paying attention to statements of the kind the Taoiseach has been making. Will he agree that it is time to revert to a realistic agenda of getting the constitutional parties to accept their responsibilities?
I agree with Deputy John Bruton that it is time for all constitutional parties to accept their responsibilities. I only hope that the constitutional parties in the North of Ireland will listen to that message so that we get back around the table. We are ready to resume talks around the table tomorrow morning, as are the Nationalist parties. The Official Unionists and the DUP are not ready to come back to the table; that is the reality. If Deputy Bruton is suggesting that the British Government and I should cease our work in endeavouring to achieve peace on this island, I cannot accept that.