Jim O'Keeffe
Question:1 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major; and to make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Meeting with British Prime Minister.
Jim O'Keeffe
Question:2 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach whether a timetable for resumption of talks on Northern Ireland has been agreed with the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:3 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. John Major.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3 inclusive, together.
The British Prime Minister and I had an informal meeting in London on Thursday last, principally to review recent political and security developments relating to Northern Ireland. The meeting was very useful, serving to demonstrate yet again the firm determination of the two Governments to advance our shared objective of lasting peace and an agreed political settlement.
In the course of our discussions, John Major and I reaffirmed the strong commitment of the two Governments to bring the peace process to full political fruition based on the framework of principles set out in the Downing Street Declaration. We remain convinced that the declaration can achieve the breakthrough to peace, now that the removal of the clarification logjam, as a result of the constructive British Government response, has cleared the way for an early and definitive response from the Republican movement and for a decision on a complete cessation of violence by both sets of paramilitaries, Loyalists and Republican. It is our hope that the response will be genuine and positive, leading to the next logical step in the peace process, which is a permanent halt being called to the futile and counterproductive campaigns of terror currently being waged, for which there is no vestige of justification.
The continuation of violence now constitutes the biggest obstacle to the advancement of the peace process. The recent wave of senseless killings, maimings and bombings must stop, if the paramilitaries on both sides want anybody to believe that they are seriously committed to the peace process.
Following our meeting on Thursday last, John Major and I welcomed and supported Mr. Molyneaux's call for a complete cessation of violence by Loyalist paramilitaries. Mr. Molyneaux, as leader of the largest political party in Northern Ireland and as a committed Unionist, was giving expression to the wish of the great majority of the people for an end to paramilitary violence. Similarly, Republican paramilitaries will have to give tangible expression to their stated interest in peace by calling a permanent end to their campaign.
The bottom line is that no political objective will ever be advanced, or no legitimate grievance redressed, by the use of violence. The Irish and British Governments share a rock-solid and unshakeable determination in that regard. Following our meeting, both John Major and myself made it very clear that we will not permit any party or organisation to veto or hinder political progress. We are absolutely firm in our resolve that the pace and nature of political developments will not be held up or determined by any waiting around for paramilitary organisations to make up their minds on whether to opt for full democratic participation. There is no question of either Government allowing any group to bolster their negotiating case by continued violence. These criteria are fundamental to the approach of the two Governments towards a solution.
In the course of our discussions, John Major and I reviewed the progress made so far in the development of a Joint Framework document, grounded on the principles of the declaration, as a basis for resumed all-party talks. While no absolute timetable exists for the completion of this document, we set ourselves the aim of finalising it by the time of our next formal meeting which is scheduled to take place in mid-July. Work on the formulation of this document is continuing apace and this will remain the position. I expect to have a further informal meeting with the Prime Minister on the margins of the European Council meeting in Corfu towards the end of June.
In view of the importance of advancing the principles of equality of treatment and parity of esteem, I put forward certain specific proposals which would help Nationalists feel that they too are first class citizens.
John Major and I also reviewed recent security developments relating to Northern Ireland. The two Governments will continue to work closely on all security matters to protect people's lives. We are committed to improving wherever possible the unprecedented level of co-operation which exists between our respective security forces.
Mr. O'Keeffe
I endorse everything the Taoiseach said about the cessation of violence by both sets of paramilitaries. We all agree that if they want to shed their own blood that is their business, but they are not entitled to spill the blood of others. On the political front, as one who pressed for a joint approach between the two Governments that would appeal to the moderate majority in Northern Ireland, will the Taoiseach state why there is such a delay in the completion of the framework document? I presume it will be based largely on the joint working document that was leaked to Emily O'Reilly last November. Why is it that six months later this document has not been agreed between the two Governments? Will the Taoiseach confirm that this document will cover constitutional as well as institutional issues? In regard to the peace process, can the Taoiseach confirm that the end of June is now the deadline for acceptance of the peace process by Sinn Féin/IRA and that thereafter the focus will switch to the talks process? In that context has the Taoiseach kept in touch with Mr. John Hume and constitutional nationalists to make sure that their views are taken into account? Has he kept open his lines of communication to the Unionists so that their views can be taken into account?
On the latter part of Deputy O'Keeffe's question, I read reports in the paper from time to time and I have no knowledge of an 8 June deadline. I am not saying that is a deadline; I am not setting a deadline. I assure the House that the two Governments are working on a framework document with or without the people involved in paramilitary violence and with or without a clear decision from them. It is their decision to make whenever they wish. The two Governments will continue with the process and we would hope that both sets of paramilitaries, as has been advocated by so many community, religious and political leaders in the North, will realise that if they want to be part of the discussions on a new Ireland they will have to call a permanent cessation of violence.
The work on the framework document is continuing. These are very complex matters with which we are dealing. I can confirm that we are seeking possibilities for a balanced constitutional settlement. We will continue to do that and will not hang around waiting for paramilitaries to make up their minds. Both Governments will continue with their business.
Was the question of internment discussed between the Taoiseach and the British Foreign Minister? Was the Loyalist attack in Dublin discussed?
The answer to the first question is "no" and the answer to the second question is "yes".
To whom it is intended to present the framework document? Will it be presented to all political parties? Will it be published and how will it be processed? Will there be a round table discussion to process it or will there be discussions with individual parties? Will there be a time limit on the discussion phase to be followed by a decision phase or will this be open ended?
Such decisions have not yet been taken. Deputy Bruton can be assured that when we are closer to agreement on it I will certainly keep him, and the other political leaders, advised as to when we expect to finalise it.
I am particularly anxious that this framework document should have broad support from the moderate majority within the North. For that reason I wish to press the Taoiseach more on the question of the discussions I hope he is continuing to have with moderate opinion in the North. Can he confirm that he is keeping in touch with Mr. Hume and moderate constitutional Nationalists in the North and that his lines of communication with Unionist moderate opinion in the North are being kept open at this vital time?
I can assure the Deputy that the lines of communication between moderate Unionists and moderate Nationalists are always open.
Did the Taoiseach discuss with the Prime Minister the Presidency of the European Commission? If so, what view did the Taoiseach express as to who should be President?
I did. The British have their own candidate in the field, Sir Leon Brittan, who the British Prime Minister feels is a very competent and effective person to take on the job if the other countries of Europe so decide.
I think the Taoiseach misheard my question. I asked what view did he, the Taoiseach, express about his favourite candidate for the Presidency of the Commission?
The British Prime Minister is in no doubt about my views; they are well known to everybody. His views about his candidate are what one would expect and my views, which have been given in the House, were confirmed to him.
What are they?
That we are reappointing Commissioner Flynn.
The Taoiseach seems to have a hearing problem. I asked about the Presidency.
This should not lead to argument.
As regards the Presidency, I do not have a problem.
That is the job of President Delors.
I have said here time and again that I will not disclose my hand to anybody until I see exactly who is in the field.
Is the Taoiseach telling the House he did not express a view to Prime Minister Major about who should be President of the Commission?
That is for me to decide when I believe it is the right time to play my cards.
Did the Taoiseach express a view——
Sorry, I am calling Deputy De Rossa. Deputy Bruton has had some latitude on this question——
The Taoiseach is having trouble understanding my questions.
——if he wishes to debate the matter he will have to find another time to do so.
Now John——
The Taoiseach should not be so familiar.
I have called Deputy De Rossa. I will call Deputy Bruton again if necessary.
On the Taoiseach's statement that what he is seeking is a balanced constitutional arrangement, is it intended that this arrangement will be incorporated in the framework agreement which he expects to have finalised by mid-July? In referring at an earlier date to comprehensive, far-reaching equality legislation, was the Taoiseach referring to the introduction of such legislation in this State as well as in relation to Northern Ireland?
I would have thought Deputy De Rossa would have no problem recognising that there is a Minister for Equality and Law Reform charged with responsibility for bringing forward equality legislation and he is engaged in that aspect of his duties. On the first part of the question about a balanced constitutional arrangement, I think Deputy De Rossa is well aware of how that will have to be enshrined in British legislation. If we get agreement on a balanced constitutional arrangement it will lead to a referendum of the Irish people.
I asked the Taoiseach whether he hopes the balanced constitutional arrangement to which he referred will be part of the framework agreement which he expects to have concluded by mid-July.
We are working towards that objective. I cannot anticipate whether we will be successful, but that is our aim.
Arising from the Taoiseach's comments that hopefully there will be agreement on constitutional change, has any thought been given to establishing a time frame for the completion of the talks process, bearing in mind that when the situation in South Africa looked very difficult, a date was set on which elections would be held and matters finalised? Has any thought been given by the two Governments to the time frame for the talks process and whether there should be an indicative date for a referendum on the two parts of this island to complete that process?
Our working agenda is as I have laid it out: the two Governments, through the liaison committee, continue to work with the aim of finding agreement to finalise the framework document by mid-July. The talks process is a question for another day. We must first compile a framework document that will form the basis for the resumption of the three stranded talks.
Did the British Prime Minister complain to the Taoiseach about Ireland allegedly being used as a back door for access to the United Kingdom by non-nationals who, because of the easy availability of passports in this jurisdiction——
The Deputy is introducing extraneous matter.
It is a good try.
It is a legitimate question.
This is a very important matter.
Considering the present position the Taoiseach might need a passport himself.
Was this matter raised during the Taoiseach's meeting with the British Prime Minister?
No.