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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Mar 1995

Vol. 450 No. 7

Interim Report of Task Force on Long-Term Unemployment: Statements.

I take this opportunity to thank the many people who were involved in the preliminary work that led to the establishment of the local employment service. The National Economic and Social Forum produced a report in June 1994 on which the task force worked and produced a report about ten days ago. That work has proved immensely valuable in achieving a consensus on proposals to try to tackle long term unemployment. The work many people put into this is worthwhile and I hope we can make a mark with this new service.

Unemployment is the major problem facing the European Union where the average unemployment rate is nearly 11 per cent. Unemployment in Ireland is now running at over 15 per cent with only Spain showing higher unemployment rates. What is depressing about the analysis of unemployment is that in spite of economic growth, the prospect of significantly reducing unemployment in the short term is slight. A recent report from the European Union Commission concluded:

The clear lesson of the past 20 years is that no member state has succeeded in reducing unemployment significantly and keeping it at a low level for a sustained period, except in Luxembourg. The chances of this happening in the future without a significant change in policy or without a radically different set of circumstances are remote.

That warning from the European Union is timely and it is appropriate that we take a radical look at our approach to unemployment.

In Ireland the rate of unemployment rose in each business cycle since the early 1970s, increasing after the two oil shocks but with the upturn in the business cycle there was no comparable recovery in employment numbers. Unemployment in Ireland is characterised by a very high number of people who are long term unemployed. The recently published document, Employment in Europe shows that Ireland has the highest proportion of long term unemployment taking the total number unemployed. In the period they reviewed, 1985-92 while other countries succeeded in reducing the proportion of long term unemployed, we did not have quite the same success. Long-term unemployment has continued to grow in spite of the strong economic growth in the past two years. The impact of recovery is not trickling down to the long term unemployed. Ten per cent of the total labour force is long term unemployed, but as a percentage of the unemployed, 35 per cent were long term unemployed in 1980 and this has grown to nearly 49 per cent in 1994.

The figures for male long term unemployment are even worse with an increase from 39 per cent in 1980 to 54 per cent in 1994. This increase occurred despite the growth in numbers of long term unemployed persons being engaged on Government programmes. Thus long term unemployment is a major economic and social issue facing this country. In spite of an optimistic medium-term outlook for economic development and employment the expectations for long term unemployment are that it will be no lower at the end of the decade than it is now. That is highlighted by some of the figures produced in the National Economic and Social Forum report which showed in a survey of recruitment that of the jobs being filled only 6 per cent of vacancies were filled by persons who were long term unemployed, that the bulk of new vacancies are filled by those who are better equipped or more mobile.

Clearly economic recovery will not lift the boats of the long term unemployed. It was against this background that the NESF addressed the issue of long term unemployment. I was pleased to be a member of the forum and I believe the consensus reached, which spanned the business community, trade unions and all the political parties — the third strand as they are now called — was unique. It was a major contribution to the formulation of Government policy.

The forum produced a very good report. It pointed out that the rate of long term unemployment in Ireland is greater than the total unemployment rate in many OECD countries; the longer a person is long term unemployed the more difficult it becomes to find employment and those unemployed for two years have a 74 per cent chance of being unemployed a year later. The ESRI carried out a study which showed that at the end of the first year one has a 66 per cent chance of getting work, at the end of the second year it is 32 per cent and there is only a 20 per cent chance of getting a job after three years unemployment. The longer a person is unemployed the less attractive they are to employers. The forum found that the long term unemployed are concentrated in the prime age group, 25 to 44 years, and have relatively low education and skill level. Half have no formal educational qualifications.

It produced figures estimating the cost of unemployment which amounted to 7 per cent of GDP. In other words, there was a lost opportunity equivalent to 7 per cent of our GDP compared with the rest of Europe where it is only 4 per cent. The NESF identified the cases of long term unemployment — low levels of skills and education. For example, 48 per cent of long term unemployed persons have no educational qualifications, that is over three times the percentage for those at work. There are far more people with intermediate certificate or group certificate-qualification among the long term unemployed than there are with the Leaving Certificate or a third level qualification compared with the rest of the labour force. There are barriers facing the long term unemployed in finding jobs such as recruitment practices, employer reluctance and unemployment traps. There are persistent factors, including loss of skills and the lack of influence of the long term unemployed in the labour market. Other factors mentioned included the impact of employment protection legislation and unemployment benefit systems and the extent to which labour market policy is "active" or "passive". These issues have an influence on the level of long term unemployment.

The main recommendation put forward by the forum to address the long term unemployment problem was the establishment of an employment service. That service will be responsible for implementing strategies of preventing long term unemployment and reintegrating the long term unemployed into the work force. It will provide a guidance and placement service for the unemployed and be a gateway to all employment and training programmes. The important feature of the service was that it was to change to being a client driven service, in other words, it was to start with a portfolio of so many persons who were long term unemployed and see what was the best programme to get those people back to work. That concept is different from what we had in the past. State agencies have concerned themselves with running courses or community employment programmes but without the persistent progression which allowed people to get a foothold in one scheme and make progress towards getting back to work ultimately. The service has turned things around and asks how it will improve the life chances of the people on their list. Much of the criticism in the past centred on the fact that, having completed courses, many people found themselves back on the live register.

The factors which were pointed out as critical to the success of the service included the active involvement and support of employers and trade unions locally and the possibility of developing different models in each locality which would be attuned to local opportunities and resources. It is crucial that the local employment service would have autonomy to carry out its functions with the eventual transfer of budgets in respect of programmes for the unemployed.

The concept advanced by the NESF was modelled largely on the "Contact Point" initiative developed by the north side partnership in Coolock which is in my constituency. I brought together employers, unions and State agencies as well as community groups and allowed them develop a coherent response to unemployment. They were able to demonstrate to local employers that if long term unemployed people were placed in local companies they would provide the best service and standard of work. They have demonstrated clearly what can be done. Since its inception in Coolock, 600 people who were long term unemployed have been successful in getting gainful employment with local employers. We hope to learn from this model in extending the service to the partnership areas.

The Government established a taskforce to examine the forum's report and make proposals for better targeted and more effective services for the long term unemployed. The report was published last week. The key recommendation is the establishment of a nationwide local employment service to meet the needs of the long term unemployed. It will provide a gateway or access point to the full range of options that should be available to this group. It endorsed the recommendations of the NESF regarding the need to put in place a comprehensive guidance, counselling and placement service. The Government has accepted the central recommendation of the taskforce and decided to assign overall responsibility for the delivery of the service to my Department and to me as Minister.

In order to ensure that the new service is up and running as quickly as possible, I have established a new policy unit on long term unemployment in my Department. The overall aim of the unit is to reduce the number of people who are long term unemployed. This will not be a simple task but unless, as a society, we seriously attempt to reduce the number of those who are long term unemployed not only are we failing in our duty to these people but we are guilty of crass negligence. All the figures show that the children of long term unemployed people tend to slide into a similar position so if we do no deal with the problem it will remain with us for many years.

The immediate task of the new unit will be to oversee the putting in place of the local employment service as recommended by the task force. This will be done in consultation and co-operation with the area partnership companies and with the assistance of FÁS and the other State bodies providing services to the long term unemployed. In addition, the unit will bring forward policy proposals for dealing with long term unemployment and for the better co-ordination of the delivery of State services to the unemployed. Already the core staff of the new unit are in place and the first moves towards establishing the new local employment service are being made. The new unit will have the benefit of the advice of an advisory group representative of the Departments of the Taoiseach, Enterprise and Employment, Social Welfare, Education, Environment and Finance; the office of the Tánaiste, FÁS and ADM Ltd. Not only the co-operation but the wholehearted commitment of these different agencies is crucial to the success of this local employment service. It has been a conscious decision of all Government Ministers to give that commitment to the provision of this service. To be a success, this local employment service must be in a position to book places and to get the requisite resources to meet their planned targets. There is no point in setting up this service if they cannot guarantee that the programme they put in place can be delivered on the ground. The service must not lose credibility with the people it is endeavouring to help and it is crucial that we do not have bureaucratic obstacles to delivering the service. We have secured from all Government Departments a commitment to deliver the local employment service when an agreed programme of work has been drawn up. That is copper-fastened by this advisory group which will ensure that continuing commitment on the part of a wide range of Departments, so important in making this service a success.

The local employment service will be introduced on a phased basis. Initially the service will be set up in the Twelve established area based partnerships companies and in two non-partnership areas. As suggested by the task force, the experience gained in setting up the service in these areas will inform us on the process to be adopted in other areas. The population in the Twelve partnership areas is over 500,000, with unemployment running at 26 per cent. It is clear that the new service has a formidable challenge ahead. The fundamental basis of the local employment service will be the local area action plan for tackling unemployment. This will be part of the plan drawn up by the area partnerships, in areas designated as disadvantaged under the Operational Programme for Local Development. A similar plan would be drawn up by the local management committee to be put in place in non-designated areas. My Department has already commenced discussions with the Twelve Area Partnerships to ensure that the local area action plans are drawn up as speedily as possible. I would like to see them in place within the next two or three months at the outside. The availability of well thoughtout plans at an early date will demonstrate our urgency in moving to address long term unemployment. It will also mean that immediate action can be taken to tackle the many and complex facets of the problem.

The local plans will detail the objectives and strategy for the local employment service, addressing the specific needs an opportunities of the local area, together with measures to obtain maximum benefit from existing State supports and services. This includes: target groups — including profile and numbers — for the service in the area and expected take-up of the service over time; local development context, in which the needs of these target groups are to be addressed, including planned growth in employment or self-employment in the private, community or statutory sectors; resources available to meet those needs, including resources in local community-based job centres for the unemployed, partnerships, FÁS, the Department of Social Welfare and educational centres; identifying the full range of outlets in the area at which the different elements of the service could be provided; detailing local available training, education and work experience places and financial supports for taking up a job or self-employment; links with employers and employment and self-employment opportunities anticipated in the area in the plan period; identifying any gaps between resources needed to provide an integrated local employment service, which will amount to identifying the personnel needs, locations, training places, contacts that need to be established with employers and, finally how the services provided by the local employment centres, the enhanced core services of FÁS and the services of the other agencies can be effectively linked operationally.

This plan will be at the core of the success of this initiative, the key requirement being that they assess the people they have to help, identify gaps in the resources available and work to decide what new, strategic interventions they must bring on stream. The detailed plan will indicate how resources, both statutory and community-based, are to be deployed within the area to provide a comprehensive, integrated service to the long term unemployed. The emphasis in the plan will be on making maximum and most effective use of existing resources. Where it is considered necessary to make a case for additional resources, this will have to be clearly justified by reference to the plan and demonstrably cost-effective.

The new service will be established in a way that ensures access for the long-term unemployed. Ensuring easy access will involve creating physical access so that the long-term unemployed feel welcome and compatible in the surroundings; using buildings which are compatible and user-friendly for the provision of counselling; developing outreach services to the communities being served so that they do not have to travel long distances; inserting guidance modules into employment programmes for the long-term unemployed, such as community employment scheme, to ensure access by bringing guidance services to participants rather than assuming they can avail of services provided outside of these programmes; drawing up directories and guides to counselling provision in each area so that clients can be easily referred or can find out for themselves exactly what is on offer, where and from whom; creating a central point in a community or town where accurate information about which counselling service is most appropriate to the individual's needs can be given; and producing and distributing clear information about what the client may expect from a counselling service.

The task force recommended that funding for the service should be put on a firm footing to ensure that all participants in the delivery of the service are able to plan strategically in the interests of the unemployed. The service should, as far as possible, draw on existing resources, including the additional funds which will flow to areas designated as disadvantaged under the local development programme.

In this regard the task force recommended that additional funding for the overhead costs of delivering the local service be provided in a new subhead of the Department assigned responsibility for the local employment service. However, it would only be drawn down on foot of a local plan agreed by the management committee that clearly identifies any resource gaps arising that cannot be met from existing resources. The overall allocation of funding between different areas would be subject to prior consultation with ADM Ltd. in designated areas of disadvantage. Funding should also be provided to the local management committees for a special local training and education fund for compensatory and innovative training measures to complement mainstream provision. An agreed amount should be set aside from the overall budget for the service for this purpose. The special contribution of centres for the unemployed and community-based services for the unemployed, that would be incorporated into the integrated service, should be recognised by the provision of core funding on a multi-annual basis. This should be agreed between the local management committees and the various funders of the service. A special unit should be established within FÁS to deal specifically with the needs of the long-term unemployed and to provide support, by way of staffing or other resources, to the integrated local employment service.

The FÁS unit would set standards for quality of service, provide accreditation and provide professional training and support to the guidance, counselling and active employment placement services available through the local employment service. The FÁS unit would also facilitate the establishment of a national profile of all unemployed clients.

In relation to 1995, the task force recommended that the Government allocate an additional £5 million to cover staffing and other resource gaps likely to arise in 1995 in the delivery of the local employment service — i.e. the provision of guidance and counselling services, active placements service, overhead costs — and an additional £1 million for a special local training and education fund.

As Deputies are aware, the Government has also accepted this recommendation and an additional amount of £6 million has been allocated to my Department for 1995.

In conclusion let me reiterate the central elements of the proposed approach as suggested by the task force: a clear planning framework and explicit local agreement for the delivery of the service at local level, indicating the extent of need for the service, how all available resources would be mustered to meet that need and performance indicators for measuring achievements of the programme as a whole and of the different agencies contributing to the programme; a recognition of the core functions of each statutory agency and their responsibility for the provision of specific services within the overall programme framework; a clear and unambiguous mandate to and responsibility on statutory agencies, from the government, to support and work in and through the local partnership structure to deliver an integrated package of services to the long term unemployed; and a commitment by Government and statutory agencies to build on the resources and strengths of local community-based services for the unemployed so as to create a service which is flexible, responsive to local need and acceptable to and identified with the local community.

Local employers must be actively involved in the design and delivery of the service and be encouraged to see that there are no inherent disadvantages, in social and economic terms, in employing unemployed people. The task force views employer involvement, through appropriate structures, as being essential to the successful placement of people in employment. Therefore effective links between the service and employers have to be established. The Northside Partnership in Coolock, to which I have already referred, has set a clear example of the way forward. The obvious value of the service to local employers and unemployed people must only encourage others to follow suit.

Clearly the success of the new local employment service will depend on co-operation at central and local level between the relevant Government Departments, State agencies, community groups, area partnerships, trade unions and employers.

The Government has directed all Ministers to ensure that their Departments and the agencies under their control work with, in and through the local management committees in accordance with the agreed local plan for the local employment service so that a coherent, co-ordinated service is provided to the long term unemployed.

What we are talking about is a bringing together of all interventions for the long term unemployed into a coherent policy of positive discrimination. Much of the information I have given is the dusty and arid detail of how this service will work and how we will bring this concept to fruition. In essence, what we are doing today is recognising that the issue of the long term unemployed will not be solved by conventional economic policies alone. The rate of economic growth will not unaided lift the boats of the long term unemployed. We must focus on the people who have become disadvantaged or are at risk of being marginalised and address their needs across a range of services. We must consider their needs in terms of improving their education, training opportunities and chances of placement in community employment. Essentially, our overall aim is to lift the life chances of people now on the fringe. That is what this local employment service is all about. It is based locally because we recognise that no one in Merrion Street or in Dáil Éireann will produce a blueprint for people in different localities. That must be done through the combined community effort of local employers, unions and members of the community along with our State agencies putting their shoulders to the wheel.

In some cases where this has been tried it has been successful. There is now in place an additional 14 pilot areas and we intend to expand this to a national basis quickly. Essentially, we must get results and I am determined that this effort will succeed. We have deployed our best people in this service and we will seek the co-operation of local people to make it successful. It is a new start to our approach to long term unemployment. I hope it will be a model of a successful approach to dealing with that difficult and intractable problem, a problem which poses the greatest challenge to all of us on both sides of the House who seek to address our critical employment priorities.

I thank the Minister, Deputy Bruton, for his in-depth analysis of this problem. These policies can give rise to much fruitful work. The Minister congratulated those who worked on the interim report. I congratulate Maureen Gaffney and the forum for the fine report No. 4 which was the genesis of the "Interim Report of the Task Force on Long-term Unemployment". I congratulate the Minister on securing his portfolio, on having sole responsibility for this area vested in one Minister and on establishing a unit in his Department which was the subject of an ongoing turf war during my period in the Department. That turf war vaciliated from day to day and month to month according to people's views and I became very impatient about it on several occasions. Most people find that the greatest difficulty in dealing with unemployment is the range and complexity of agencies, establishments and their staff who act in good faith to help the unemployed. At county level alone there are various agencies including area partnerships, county enterprise boards, FÁS, the Department of Social Welfare, and the IDA. Forbairt and the back to work scheme organised by the Department of Social Welfare. It is a wonder that any unemployed person or a person with a business idea is able to fight through the thicket to get to the fount of information. The Minister has responsibility for this area at ministerial level. Other Ministers also deal with unemployment including the Minister, Ministers of State, Deputies Fitzgerald, and Gay Mitchell and the Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy De Rossa.

A range of Ministers and agencies deal with it and there is a range of approaches and measures proposed in respect of it. It would be worth considering, particularly at county level — not another body as I shudder at the thought of establishing another one — a coherent approach between county enterprise boards, the Leader programme, area partnership, FÁS, the Department of Social Welfare, the IDA and Forbairt. When I was in the Minister's place and he in mine he outlined what changes he would make in this area when he came into the sunshine. He is in that position now and the challenge facing him is to make a coherent stream of the opportunities available to people, be they long or short term unemployed, people who have business ideas or who want to make progress. The range of opportunities open to people who have ideas and want to progress is truly perplexing.

I mentioned Maureen Gaffney and the forum. I also congratulate the Minister for setting up a unit in his Department headed by a civil servant whose name I should not mention, but I will. Mr. Rody Molloy, who is present. To spare his blushes, I will just say that he is one of the best people the Minister could have put in charge of that unit. He has undertaken an in-depth study of the area and he was very much involved in the turf wars to which I referred.

The turf war.

I could write a book about that period and it would make riveting reading.

It is a pity he is not allowed speak.

He won out and that augurs well for the task facing the Minister. I hope he does not give the Minister too many of my good ideas.

People become perplexed when they hear the Minister speak on "Morning Ireland" and a half an hour later hear another Minister and the following evening another Minister all with noble ideals on the one issue. When I was Minister people asked me who was responsible for this area and they still ask who is responsible.

Is it not wonderful that so many people are interested in this area?

No, with the greatest respect they are not frightfully impressed with the plethora of people available to talk about this matter. A multiplicity of the Department bodies and individuals are involved in dealing with this issue. I welcome an overall body responsible for it.

The Minister spoke about the Cabinet being told to act in a co-ordinated fashion through local placement employment agencies. I will go a little further and suggest that each Cabinet meeting should begin with a discussion on unemployment and each measure brought to Cabinet, be it a memorandum, legislation, notice of information should be employment proofed. There was a long period when we gender proofed everything.

Not the Government's nominees to the chairs of committees.

The Government does not gender proof members of Cabinet or chairs of committee because it is exempt and only dictates that there should be 40 per cent gender representation on boards. There is a remarkable dearth of the female sex, at Cabinet and on the chairs of committees. The Minister should ensure that at Cabinet each measure is considered and has an addendum as to how it would promote, foster, encourage or, unfortunately in some cases, adversely affect employment. That would make people who may have finesounding ideas about employment think twice about their ideas in terms of their potential to adversely affect or improve employment prospects.

The first point concerns the proofing of each Government measure. Second, in his contribution and when launching the interim report the Minister said the unit in his Department, headed by the estimable gentleman, of whom we spoke earlier, would have the task of reducing long term unemployment. Until numbers are put on it long term unemployment will not be reduced. I have said this constantly; it is not a new refrain. I constantly asked the former Government, of which I was a member, to put a figure on it but I did not make much headway because we were tackling all the turf wars. Having established that, the Minister will need to put on his armour because there will be snipes from the bushes. I speak from experience. I am not being fanciful.

The Minister will then have to suggest a target number by which to reduce unemployment. We know the number of long term unemployed as that is what the report is all about but the target would be a worth-while measure and has been adopted by the Belgium and Dutch Governments. At the Social Affairs Council of Ministers, both Ministers admitted the inroads they made are not substantial and said there would not be further inroads unless there was a numerical target towards which to aspire. At the end of each month when we get the unemployment figures, statistics should also be provided in respect of the long term unemployed and how they had been affected. It is not a case of "how could we do it", as was put to me. If you set an objective you can work towards it yearly and monthly by producing the figures for the long term unemployed. This is the only quantifiable way, as a nation, that we can do this. I do not speak here in an adversarial sense.

While my remarks at the outset about the turf wars may be taken as jocose they were the truth. Until we set targets we will not reduce the numbers of long term unemployed. It is far too easy to use the jargon of the ESRI who, a month ago, issued a flowery report outlining the wonderful Ireland we will inhabit in 1995, in which all incomes will be increased, and there will be economic growth and reduced unemployment. Unfortunately, we are a small exposed country and the winds have begun to blow. If the 1 per cent mortgage increase remains I shudder to think what it will mean for the recipients of the miserable, scrooge like 2.5 per cent social welfare entitlements. The same applies in respect of the rosy scenario of employment. While the ESRI and all the learned economic commentators make forecasts they are fallible and the country is small and exposed. We have been told we will have economic growth and that we have had massive growth for the past three or four years way beyond that achieved by any other country, although I cast doubt on the veracity and accuracy of the type of growth included in those figures. It is startling that if we can have that growth we still cannot tackle unemployment. We all quote Seán Lemass: "the rising tide will lift all boats". However, this quote is misused as it lifts only those in employment, not the long term unemployed. Page 19 of the interim report states:

The central finding of the Forum's Report is that the long term unemployed are not being effectively brought back into the mainstream labour market through existing measures. One of the most striking statements in the Forum's Report is that those who have been unemployed for more than two years have a 74% chance of being unemployed one year later. This figure rises to over 80% for males aged 25-44 and to 90% for males aged 45-54.

A young man of 25 who is unemployed for two years has an 80 per cent chance of remaining unemployed, this rises to 90 per cent for males aged 45 to 54. The chances of a person in his 40s who may be the only breadwinner in his family, getting a job are 10 per cent, a frightening statistic. Unless we tackle that problem no Government or politician of any party can go to the electorate when the time comes to be re-elected and say they have done their job properly.

The Minister said that, unfortunately, reports for the end of the decade indicated that this difficulty would not be eased and that the chances of aiding long term unemployed were scant. Presumably the purpose of the earlier Forum Report and this interim dissertation on it is that we will give more optimism and hope to the long term unemployed, hence the focused approach to which the Minister referred.

We speak about the long term unemployed as if they are a mass of people, faceless, characterless, nameless, aspirationless, hopeless with no vitality in their lives; they are just a group. Each individual started off with hopes and aspirations and wants to see them realised. The most frightening and stultifying thing for the unemployed is to wake up each day and have nothing to do, nowhere to go and not to have an aim in life. Each day their self-confidence is eroded, their sense of being able to look another person in the face and say they are of value to themselves and other people, not necessarily in terms of monetary reward: though clearly that comes into it, particularly when one has family responsibilities. This is a confidence that comes from being needed, being part of society and being involved in a community employment project, paid work, education, training and finally a job in the mainstream labour market. That is all contained in the report.

The Minister praised the Northside Partnership in Coolock, as I do. When I studied it last year I was amazed at what could be done by strong interventionist hands-on tactics. Nothing else can help the long term unemployed. When I began to preach that doctrine in the Department of Enterprise and Employment there were those who said I was dangerously socialist. There were those who said — they are still in that Department — that I was off my head and that market forces would help. I was told that if we got the economy right, if there was growth and consensus among the social partners and competitiveness in industry we would somehow solve the problem of long term unemployment. It has not happened and it will not happen unless money, time, effort, dedication, commitment and constant intervention is put into the services to help the long term unemployed. They can be helped. It means looking at every single unemployed person, man and woman of every age, and saying the State can help them. In this case "the State" means the State agencies, employers, employees and community leaders within an area who can work together under the area based partnerships. I do not have to outline how difficult and time consuming the task is and the need for everyone to be involved if the process is to be effective. There are opportunities available for people in every area but the problem is that there is no way to match people with the projects — the live register data available to us is very poor. Fianna Fáil tried to deal with this issue in Government but the report said that very little could be done in this regard. There is a great dearth of knowledge about the qualifications and potential of people on the live register. We will need proper information if we are to match unemployed people with a programme or project which suits them. We do not know the number of carpenters, musicians or people with no skills on the live register and this data should be compiled on a county basis.

I agree with the Minister of State, Deputy Eithne Fitzgerald, that we cannot sit back and wait for the long term unemployed to approach us. These people do not know where to go or whom to ask for the information which will give them a first, second or third foothold in the employment market. The interim report has targeted the long term unemployed and people who are in danger of slipping into this category. We should abandon the practice of declaring people who have been unemployed for one year as long term unemployed. This is degrading. People should not have to wait for a year before receiving help, at which stage they may have become despondent and less motivated. They should be given help after six months.

We must adopt a tailor-made approach to each individual. All must be scrutinised as to their employment potential and targets must be set. The relevant unit in the Minister's Department should put up on its wall a chart with the number of long term unemployed and the target for the following month. This is the only way we can achieve our objectives.

In a reply to a parliamentary question the Minister said that job sharing would be discussed at the NESC forum on 28 March. This measure has proved very effective in countries such as Belgium and the Netherlands where unemployed people fill the vacancies created by people who take career breaks etc. This is a very worthy measure and there should be no resistance to its introduction in this country. The best way of giving unemployed people experience and a foothold in the employment market is to fill vacancies created in the Civil Service by people who have taken career breaks. There is no reason this should raise the hackles of unions as it would be proper and structured job experience.

The main vehicle for progressing the local employment initiative is the community employment programme. I am appalled at the way in which the programme is being managed this year. The funding has been increased but there has been no corresponding increase in the numbers. Voluntary sponsors are being told by their local FÁS office that their projects cannot start and that they have been told to manage the programme in a "sensitive" way so as to reduce the numbers. Prior to the publication of the report constant calls were made to free up the community employment programme so as to allow projects to commence. There is no sensitive way of telling a person a project cannot begin. There is a clear difference between what the Minister has set out here and what he is doing on the other side. I urge him to get both sides working together so that the very fine ideas put forward in the interim report are not negated on the other side. Otherwise the number of long term unemployed will increase and the chances will decrease.

The main aim should be to ensure that people do not slip into the long term unemployment net and become a statistic. The Minister has set up a unit to help industries, particularly those in the textile sector, adapt to changing circumstances. It is ludicrous to announce that a staggering sum of £22 million has been allocated to this unit to help people stay in what are regarded as the older and more traditional employments when 108 jobs in Sunbeam and 250 jobs in the Silverlea factories in Athlone and Athy are about to go to the wall. Industries can be helped through a difficult patch where there are proven markets. I am not so silly as to think that we should prop up an industry which had no market for its products. There are clear markets for the products produced by Sunbeam and Silverlea and these industries need help during this difficult period.

All the fancy words and press releases in the world will not get over the fact that many people are desperately distraught. I received a telephone call today from a worker in Sunbeam who could not understand the report in today's Irish Independent which stated that £22 million would be provided to help people stay in employment in traditional industries when all she wants is her job in Sunbeam. Will the Minister give some of that money to the Sunbeams and the Silverleas who have proven markets for their goods? It would be money well spent.

Following the comments of the former Minister, Deputy O'Rourke, it is fair to describe the official who won the turf war as "official T". I will not refer to him by name, but I compliment him on winning that war.

He might appreciate not being complimented.

I did not mention him by name. Far be it from me to embarrass an official, or anyone for that matter.

The Government is in office 90 days today and I would regard myself as reasonably informed about what it has done. There have been five or six investigations into leaks and a number of task forces have been set up and programme managers and advisers appointed. There have been many bureaucratic responses to the nation's problems, but little by way of decision making. I have much regard for the Minister who has a genuine commitment to the plight of the unemployed. I receive copies of all his scripts and read them carefully. In the scripts dealing with the substance of his ministry, there is much emphasis on bureaucracy, committees, task forces and reviews and very little by way of action or decision. I am not expecting an unreasonable response in 90 days, but as this Government took up office mid-way through this Dáil term it has only two and a half years — not a long time — to prove itself. The Minister should be more decisive in making the policy decisions that are necessary if we are to deal with the fundamental problem affecting employment.

We have a workforce of approximately 1.9 million people and an enormous number of State bodies and boards helping to create jobs and encourage enterprise and initiative. Apart from Forbairt, IDA Ireland, Forfás and FÁS, we have area partnership companies, local enterprise boards and the proposed local employment service. My main concern is that this is not a co-ordinated and integrated response. Notwithstanding the difficult problems that face the long term unemployed, we cannot separate the employment issue as neatly as some people believe.

I join with the Minister and Deputy O'Rourke in complimenting the National Economic and Social Forum for its comprehensive and thought-provoking report. It contained much of the analysis that has been carried out on unemployment and focused on the question of long term unemployment. I share its view that the problem is not insurmountable. We must start from the premise of setting targets and of assuming that we can solve problems. We must set ambitious, not unrealistic, targets. I have always believed that politicians working to targets are more likely to achieve success than if they do not set targets, and only have an aspiration or commitment to do something about the problem. One of the disappointments about the programme for Government is that it does not set specific targets on unemployment or the obstacles in our economy to the creation of jobs.

The Minister dealt at length with the analysis in the report of the task force — which was a response to the Forum's report — on the profile of the long term unemployed. In October last 135,000 people — one in ten of the workforce — were long term unemployed. The report states that 92,000 people have been unemployed for two years and 66,000 for three years. It also states that a person who is unemployed for two years has a 74 per cent chance of still being unemployed after three years. Those are frightening statistics. Given our small population and a workforce of less than two million people, to have so many people cast into the role of being long term unemployed is a frightening thought. The Minister referred to the 7 per cent cost to our GDP. If one considers the indirect costs such as health, crime, social deprivation, exclusion, family breakdown and general stress, the figure is much higher.

Many of us deal with the consequences of long term unemployment because, in general, those people live in clusters in urban areas. There are large areas in my constituency where the unemployment rate is much higher than the national average, in some cases up to 50 per cent of the workforce of an area can be unemployed. I know the indirect effects of unemployment. It is my philosophy that every able bodied person should have an opportunity to participate in the development of the country or economy in which they live. We must start from that basis. I do not believe people who are capable of contributing to the social and economic development of their community or country should be facilitated not to work.

If we are really intent on tackling the scourge of unemployment we must change certain fundamentals in this economy. We must examine the cause and what prolongs and deepens the problem of unemployment. We must also examine the profile of the unemployed. As the report states, half of those unemployed do not have formal educational qualifications. Any response to the problem of unemployment, whether community employment schemes or otherwise, that does not provide an element of training and education will not equip people with the skills or attitude to allow them take up regular paid employment which, for as long as we can see into the future, will be the norm in our society. Much of the training may have to be attitudinal because if children grow up in families and communities where nobody works, they will not have a correct attitude towards employment.

We must also examine the policy matters that affect unemployment. In that regard I wish to refer to the Culliton report. Many people claim that my party is like a long playing record on tax reform but, as I said at the outset, we cannot separate matters that affect economic decisions and the behaviour of citizens in the way the Minister and this report propose. That is far too simplistic. The Culliton report stated:

We need a spirit of self-reliance — determination to take charge of our future — to build an economy of real strength and permanence which will give jobs and wealth sufficient to our needs.

It continued:

It is time for the Government to take the hard political decisions needed for a decisive reform of the tax system .... The group (referring to the Culliton group) would not argue that lowering marginal tax rates will, for example, by itself, lead to an immediate and evident surge in activity and in job creation. But by removing the demoralising effect of the current tax system and removing the waste of non-productive tax avoidance activities, reform will create a far more conducive environment for productive enterprise and for more solidly based investment decisions. In no other single area does the Government have at its disposal the tools to make as far reaching and effective a reform to support an enterprise economy as in taxation.

I agree with that. Just over a year ago, before his retirement, the former Governor of the Central Bank, Mr. Maurice Doyle, drew the attention of the House to the problem of what he called the tax welfare trap, the huge gap between the cost of employment and take home pay. These are among the factors that lead to so much employment in this economy. We cannot say that that only affects short term unemployment; it goes right across the board. It is worth recalling that long term unemployment in Ireland is higher than the total employment in many of the OECD countries. For example, the level of long term unemployment here is three times higher than it is in Germany or the United Kingdom, twice as high as in Belgium and France and ten times higher than in Sweden and the United States.

If we are to create employment opportunities, if we are even to halve unemployment by the end of the century and assume no net emigration, we will have to create 45,000 jobs each year to the year 2000. It is a frightening figure but that is the challenge that faces anybody with responsibility for enterprise and employment. We must confront the obstacles to the creation of those jobs. Taxation is fundamental and so, too, is bureaucracy. Not everybody is prepared to take a risk but those who do create an opportunity not just for themselves but for others. They most frequently complain that, despite the plethora of enterprise boards, the bureaucracy, the ministerial announcements about new schemes etc., when they look for assistance it is not available.

A person in my constituency who was unemployed a few years ago started a small cement products business. He employs five people and has the capacity to employ five more. He, on his own behalf and I, on his behalf, have gone from one Government agency to another to see if there is any way of helping him and the answer is no, because he is in an area where there is already a sufficient supply. He is earning a very small income for himself and his young family and has put everything into the business. He has told me that if he had remained unemployed for the past few year he would be better off in terms of the net gain to his family than he now is, having taken the risk and made the effort.

The local authority and everybody else are hounding him to pay his rates and other bills, but he has managed to survive and take himself away from being unemployed. His story is typical of many who want to make an effort. He sees the State investing £156,000 per job in Irish Steel and wonders how it can get that level of investment. Is it because it is a State company and has clout?

The response of Government, not just this Government, has been patchy and haphazard. It is not a fair response. Many small businesses in our economy do not get the same opportunity as foreign inward investors. If there is anything I would encourage the Minister to do it is to operate a level of support to industry that is fair and uniform, that would apply as much to the Irish person as it does to the foreigner, that appreciates the risk they take and reduces the bureaucracy they must put up with. It is crazy that a small company has to file between 60 and 80 forms with the Companies Office if small changes take place in its enterprise in any given year. I spoke to a company secretary about it this morning and was shocked at the level of bureaucracy involved. Despite that, when controversies arise and one looks for details in the Companies Office, one discovers that the statistics are three years out of date. When Deputies sought details when the C & D Petfoods controversy arose, the files were out of date, yet there is a requirement on individuals in regard to such records. It seems that what we are trying to do in our economy is stop rather than encourage enterprise.

I am delighted to see the Minister of State, Deputy Mitchell, in the House. I am confused as to his role in employment development at local level vis-à-vis that of the Minister, Deputy Bruton. It is not that I object to the involvement of the two individuals. However, it seems to be part of a diffuse approach to unemployment, that there will be a little from this Department and a little from that. It is part of the reason we end up with so much bureaucracy. It would be much better if this were focused in one Department. Regardless of the nature of jobs or the function they have to fulfil at local level, if we are to have a focused integrated approach which the forum recommended and which the task force reiterates, the responsibility must lie with one Minister alone. All the resources, all the excellent back-up services that Ministers have — we have very talented public servants committed to the task ahead — should be located in one Department, the Department of Enterprise and employment.

I began by saying that if we are to deal with the problem of long term unemployment we need to have a profile of the unemployed. I cannot emphasise enough how important that is. Broadly speaking, we know that half of them have no formal educational qualifications, we have details about their age and the fact that they have many dependants, but we do not have specific details about the unemployed.

When Deputy Mitchell was spokesman on Justice he said, in regard to the prison population, that we needed to know who they were, as we drew certain assumptions about them, that they came from poor backgrounds and had a low level of education etc. The assumptions are generally right because there has been much general research into those who commit crime, but there are no specific details. Deputy Mitchell wanted to know if we can have an appropriate legislative or Government response if we do not know who or what we are dealing with. The same applies to the long term unemployed.

Frequently one hears that a school requires a part-time caretaker to work under one of the community schemes. On contacting people in one's constituency who are unemployed one discovers that none is available to do this job — perhaps they are better off on social welfare because they have a large number of dependants, have health problems or are not in a position, for one reason or another, to take up that job.

Much time is wasted at local level trying to fill vacancies that arise in a particular area. That is why I strongly urge the Government to implement the recommendation in the forum report in regard to the appointment of mediators. In regard to those unemployed for more than a year, we should know who they are, their circumstances, their interests and their attitude to employment. This is not just a question of filling in biographical details on a form. It requires much more.

When I was informed that this debate was to take place I had to ask the Whip which task force was in question. I thought it was intended to debate the report of the task force on small businesses. To some extent this debate seems nothing more than legislative polyfilla because we have run out of legislation. I hope that is not our attitude. I can think of no other area that should concern us more than the level of unemployment in this economy. It is destroying our country and leading to a sense of isolation, deprivation and dependency. It has the capacity to destroy us. A group of more than 300,000 people is an enornous political lobby.

Recently I asked the Taoiseach to include the Irish National Organisation for the Unemployed in any new social and economic group the Government might be involved in but he refused to give a commitment. He said it would be involved in the National Economic and Social Council. If this House is serious about combating unemployment and looking after the needs of the long term unemployed the first group to negotiate any new national economic and social programme should represent the unemployed. Up to now official responses and national programmes have been very much dictated by the interests of those at work, not those seeking work. Unless the Government gives a commitment to include them in negotiations, there will be no point in having debates, setting up more bureaucracy or initiating a local employment service with all that would do in terms of placement, training and opportunities. If we do not involve those who represent and are the sole voice of the unemployed our commitment is not as great as it should be, is not genuine and we will be accepting defeatism and cynicism.

I hope this is the beginning of many debates on unemployment. I note the task force, in its report of October 1995, will review performance and make other suggestions. I hope this House too, either through a committee of the House or through formal debates in the House, will continue to review performance in this area and not just accept an establishment of new units or new services. We have to look at the practical results.

Debate adjourned.
Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.
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