Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 28 Mar 1995

Vol. 451 No. 2

Adjournment Debate. - New Age Travellers.

Mr. E. O'Keeffe

One of the most relevant issues that will face the community across this country in the weeks ahead is the question of new age travellers. New age travellers have located in property owned by Coillte Teoranta in east Cork. They have come here as a result of new laws being enacted in the United Kingdom which have made it difficult for them to reside there. We are now seeing a large influx of such travellers to our shores. I am rather worried for the people of Ballyhooley and the area generally that we will see an estimated influx of 2,000 people when the new ferry season begins.

New age travellers in the Ballyhooley area pose a threat in terms of fire which would cause a major disaster in this woodland area. In the United Kingdom such travellers are subject to tax but here they pay no VAT on their trading and pay nothing to the State compared with ordinary citizens. They are eligible for health concessions and for medical cards. They are entitled to a supplementary welfare allowance as well as other rights which no Irish citizen has without undergoing a means test. They are helped all the way.

Rave parties are identified with drugs. We have seen a few rave parties in west Cork and they are likely to occur in any area. People are genuinely concerned that drugs and rave parties present a threat to the community. This would have a major influence on teenagers. I believe new legislation is necessary to protect people from the threat of new age travellers. The citizens of Ballyhooley and the surrounding areas are entitled to protection. The Garda Síochána have been informed and on many occasions they have expressed concern. Nothing has happened to date that has disturbed the area but there is a build-up to something happening because there will be a greater influx of such people.

I urge the Government to investigate immediately the possibility of enacting new legislation or amending existing laws. I do not know which Department is responsible for new age travellers. I believe they will cause problems whether for the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry because they are residing on land owned by Coillte Teoranta, the Department of Justice or the Department of the Environment. Something should be done to sort out this problem and help our citizens.

Minister of State at the Department of Justice (Ms Burton)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter.

With regard to the particular case referred to by the Deputy I have had inquiries made with the Garda authorities which have informed me that seven families of new age travellers, approximately 30 people in total, are camped on wooded land at Gurteen, Ballyhooley, Fermoy, owned by Coillte Teoranta. No complaints have been received locally by the Garda about these travellers, who are regarded by the local gardaí as not presenting any problems.

On the more general issue of new age travellers trespassing, the position is that the law treats trespass, unless the trespass is accompanied by specific behaviour which would bring it within the remit of the criminal law, as a civil matter to which only civil remedies apply. By and large our criminal law does not involve itself with trespass.

As I understand it, the problems created by what are called new age travellers are ones associated with simple trespass and the annoyance to landowners and local communities that this can cause. Rarely do these travellers infringe on the criminal law, and where they do, they are dealt with by the Garda Síochána as is every other person in the State.

There seems to be an impression abroad that the Minister for Justice can introduce some form of legislation which would categorise the problems associated with new age travellers as a "law and order" issue, the solution to which lies exclusively with changing the criminal law. Parallels have been drawn between the situation in Britain and that in the south of Ireland but they are not comparable. I am aware that the police in Britain have powers under the Public Order Act, 1986, to move people on. To involve our criminal law in dealing with trespassing by new age travellers would, however, represent a fairly radical departure from the status quo for the reasons I stated.

Introducing legislation along the lines of the British Public Order Act would be disproportionate to the problems which exist in this country. There is also the wider point that the problems posed by the behaviour of these travellers fall short of public disorder and are instead a nuisance to local landowners and townspeople. They arise in a complex set of social circumstances, the appropriate remedy for which does not lie in changing the criminal law.

Essentially what is involved here is a social-environmental problem. If legislative measures are warranted to deal with the problems posed by these travellers, it would not seem to be a particularly effective approach for individual legislative measures to be considered in isolation. If the problems posed by travellers and other mobile congregations are to be effectively tackled through legislative change, it would be necessary to obtain the advice of the Law Reform Commission and ask it to review the law on trespass with a view to strengthening the powers of the various statutory agencies in dealing effectively with the problems caused not only by new age travellers but all similar mobile communities.

I take on board the points made by the Deputy regarding the risk of fire in the summer season. I will bring that matter to the attention of the Garda and Coillte. I will also raise with the Garda the question of drugs and rave parties in that part of Cork although they have taken strong action on the drugs problem as the Deputy will be aware.

As we are a member of the EU and enjoy free movement between Britain and Ireland we must take into account the conditions which Irish people enjoy in other countries. We must be careful when we propose changes in the law. The kind of changes the Deputy suggests for dealing with this specific problem, which involves a small number of people, would be draconian and affect a wide range of issues.