It is proposed to take Nos. 1 and 8.
Order of Business.
On the question of legislation, the House is now almost redundant although we will continue to co-operate in discussing the business for next week. Can the Tánaiste give us any indication of what legislation is likely to be introduced? At the start of the session we were given a list of 49 Bills of which we have seen two, the legislation providing for the appointment of the two unnecessary extra Ministers of State and the Social Welfare Bill. We have also dealt with one Bill which was not on the list, the abortion information legislation introduced by the Minister for Health. Yesterday the Tánaiste kindly informed me that the Finance Bill will be taken in the next session. Is there any other legislation which is likely to be introduced?
Much legislation is being prepared and will be brought before the Dáil as soon as possible. I am sure the Whips will have an opportunity to discuss this at their meeting today.
Yesterday the Tánaiste referred to at least one Bill which apparently has been agreed to by the Government, the Bill dealing with sanitary services. In this regard wholesale confusion has been created for individuals, local authorities, residents and community groups. When will the Opposition and the public see this Bill, which has been the subject of leaks, rather than press releases?
Perhaps the Deputy will tell us where he stands on the matter.
(Interruptions.)
We heard the Deputy say last night that he wants to shed 3,000 jobs in the ESB.
We should let the man who introduced service charges speak.
I am at a loss to understand why the Leader of the Opposition is confused on this matter. Perhaps if he was in the House yesterday for the day he would have seen the notices and heard the announcements. A circular will issue from the Minister for the Environment to local authorities next week and legislation will be presented in the House within a matter of weeks. There is no confusion about the decision made yesterday.
At least we know that a circular will issue next week.
It will be co-signed by the Minister for Social Welfare.
I raised a matter with the Tánaiste yesterday and I thank him for contacting my office with the details. On the question of the crazy legislation being proposed by the Government which will not satisfy anyone's needs, is it proposed to appoint more District Court judges to reduce the huge backlog which will pile up in the District Court?
Legislation has been promised but we cannot debate the matter at this time.
The legislation will be forthcoming. There will be no need to appoint extra District Court justices to deal with this matter; the numbers we will be talking about will be few.
How does the Tánaiste know?
While the Tánaiste has endeavoured to be helpful, will the Government give some thought to prioritising the legislation which will be introduced in the next session? The list of 49 Bills we have been given is of no use to us as we have been given no indication as to when these Bills will be introduced. Will the Bill dealing with sanitary services contain any proposals to establish a small claims court to deal with the many people who will not pay their water charges as a result of the Government's decision and who will have to be taken to court——
We cannot go into the detail of that legislation now, Deputy.
Taking people to court for the sake of £100 will cost the local authorities at least twice that figure, and the Tánaiste knows that.
With regard to the proposed sanitary services legislation, I, like other Deputies, have had many queries from constituents on the question of water charges. Will the Tánaiste answer a question on behalf of all the parties in Government? Do people have to pay these water charges? Is he inviting them to pay these charges?
Of course. I would like Deputy Kitt to swear an affidavit in relation to the queries on service charges he received yesterday from Dublin South County.
The Tánaiste is in Government.
The Tánaiste should answer the question. Is the Tánaiste encouraging people to pay water charges?
Of course. The people are encouraged to pay their water charges.
We cannot debate this now. Deputy Quill has been offering.
On a point of order, the Tánaiste is questioning my credibility on this issue.
How many telephone calls did Deputy Kitt get yesterday?
I am asking the Tánaiste to withdraw the accusation that I have told a lie to this House. Is he saying I told a lie?
I did not say that. How many telephone calls did the Deputy get yesterday?
I had four queries. The Tánaiste did not answer my question. Is he telling the people to pay their water charges?
Is the Minister for Social Welfare also telling the people to pay their water charges?
No, he is not.
Deputy Kitt must resume his seat. We cannot debate this matter now.
Is the Tánaiste speaking for the Government on this issue? Are all members of the Government encouraging people to pay their water charges?
I am speaking on behalf of the Government.
Including the Minister for Social Welfare and Democratic Left?
I will ask Deputy Burke only once to desist. I am calling Deputy Quill.
Can I ask the Tánaiste if the provision of the proposed legislation will apply equally to transactions in respect of the ESB and An Bord Telecom?
You may not.
Why not? The principle is the same.
The Deputy may ask when the legislation will be published.
In justice, in law and in equity, the principle is the same. Why can the Government not——
(Interruptions.)
On the proposed sanitary services legislation, what plans has the Minister to compensate local authorities for the loss of income and the expenses that will arise in having to send out a member of a local authority staff to disconnect the water supply?
That is done anyway.
What plans are in train to allow the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to put in place a similar procedure for disconnection of electricity supplies?
The Deputy knows that matter cannot be dealt with at this time.
On the proposed legislation, given the experiences in Cork city, is it now the preference of the Government that people be sent to jail rather than be disconnected for non-payment of service charges?
(Interruptions.)
Mr. O'Sullivan
The Deputy's party tried to abolish them.
The Deputy's party made promises to the people.
Mr. O'Sullivan
The Deputy lied.
I know about the Deputy's promises. Hypocrites.
The Deputy should withdraw the world "lie".
(Interruptions.)
I will bring these proceedings to a speedy finish if we do not have some order and I will proceed to the Order of Business proper. We will now hear Deputy Davern without interruption from any side of the House.
Does the Tánaiste see any conflict of interest whereby the lifeline has again been thrown to the fat cats in the legal profession in relation to water charges——
Is this the Order of Business?
——in view of the fact that members of the Government are also members of the legal profession?
The Deputy can raise that matter on another occasion.
The answer is "no".
Can I ask the Tánaiste if the Government now intends to abandon large sections of the operational programme for local and urban renewal development in the tourism programme where local authorities must provide substantial matching funds?
Not now, Deputy.
From where will they get the money?
I am calling Deputy McCreevy who presumably has a pertinent question.
On a point of information——
It is regarding promised legislation?
It is about a misleading statement made by the Minister for Social Welfare yesterday where he suggested local authorities were depriving people——
Deputy Cullen must resume his seat.
It is an untruth and it is all we hear from Democratic Left.
Is Deputy Cullen happy that he is now back in the fold?
I am very happy to be back in the fold because this is the party that saved local government, not the people on the opposite side of the House.
(Interruptions.)
Where is Brendan Kenneally?
Does the Government propose to move a supplementary Estimate to cover the estimated loss of income to local authorities arising from yesterday's decision?
On the sanitary services legislation, if an individual is found in court to have not paid his water charges——
This is not a question on promised legislation.
It is a legitimate question but not for now.
I ask that the question be heard, Sir. If it is determined in a court that a person should have their water supply disconnected——
I am moving on now to item No. 1.
(Interruptions.)
On the Order of Business——
I am now calling on the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications——
On a point of order——
If it is an appropriate matter I will hear the Deputy.
The Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications is on his feet.
I have not called the Minister yet.
You did.
I was in the process of calling the Minister. I will hear the Deputy if he has something appropriate to say.
On the Order of Business, may I ask the Tánaiste if the promised sanitary services legislation——
Deputy Burke may ask when the legislation is promised and nothing further at this time. I am calling the Minister.
On a point of order——
In relation to promised legislation, will the Tánaiste promise that councillors countrywide will now vote for the introduction of water charges?
I am calling the Minister and I would ask Deputy Burke to resume his seat.
Will they vote for it? Will it be in legislation?
Will Deputy Burke resume his seat? I will suspend the sitting and I will not allow this disorder to proceed. I am moving on to item No. 1.
On a point of order——
(Donegal South West): On a point of order. I have a question relevant to the Order of Business.
(Interruptions.)
I have moved on to item No. 1 and the Deputy is out of order.
(Donegal South West): You have ignored me——
The Deputy will resume his seat.
(Donegal South West): I will not; I want to ask a question.
If the Deputy does not resume his seat I will ask him to leave the House.
(Donegal South West): You will not rule me out of order; I want to ask a question about the transfer of sentenced prisoners.
I ask the Deputy one more time to resume his seat.
(Donegal South West): Are you ignoring the question of the transfer of sentenced prisoners?
I ask the Deputy to leave the House.
(Donegal South West): Is this matter not relevant? I came here to raise an important matter and I will not be shouted down. It is relevant and the Tánaiste will want to answer.
The Deputy is openly defying the Chair and I will not tolerate that. He will leave the House or I will have him named.
(Donegal South West): On a point of order——
No; the Deputy will leave the House or I will have him named.
(Donegal South West): What argument do I have——
Regrettably, I must ask that the Deputy be named.
Please do not do that, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.
(Interruptions.)
I name Deputy Gallagher.
(Donegal South West): What about the transfer of sentenced prisoners? It seems this is no longer relevant.
The Deputy cannot openly defy the Chair.
(Donegal South West): I am afraid I will have to raise this matter in Europe.
They are always looking for a head.
As the Deputy has been named I must put the following question: "That Deputy Gallagher be suspended from the service of the Dáil".
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 62; Níl, 43.
Tá
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Allen, Bernard.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Bell, Michael.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McDowell, Derek.
- Bree, Declan.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coveney, Hugh.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Penrose, William.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, John.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sheehan, P.J.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Upton, Pat.
- Walsh, Eamon.
Níl
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Brennan, Matt.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Ellis, John.
- Flood, Chris.
- Foley, Denis.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Hughes, Séamus.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, James.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick West).
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Power, Seán.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Woods, Michael.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett and Walsh; Níl, Deputies D. Ahern and Callely.
Question declared carried.
(Donegal South West): Before I leave the House may I thank my colleagues for voting in support of the transfer of sentenced prisoners many of whom——
This is out of order.
The Deputy must now leave the House. I am calling item No. 1.
With all due respect, the Deputy and the Opposition parties know full well that legislation is being prepared and will be brought before the House.
Why did the Tánaiste vote for the Deputy to be suspended?
Why did he name him?
I wish to raise a point of order.
(Interruptions.)
The Order of Business has concluded.