It is proposed to take No. 4. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; and (2) the proceedings on the Second Stage of No. 4 shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tonight. Private Members' Business shall be No. 12.
Order of Business.
Are the proposals for a late sitting tonight satisfactory?
I am afraid I have to again oppose the Order of Business. On each day the House has sat during the past two weeks we have sought to get the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications to make a report to it but he has declined to do so until a date which suits him. He has declined also to give us, before it is debated in the House, the 125 page report prepared in his Department.
It is very difficult to accept the relevance of this argument.
The Minister has refused to give us details of the Cromien report despite having had it in his possession for nine months.
I am putting the question: "That the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m..".
Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 53; Níl, 52.
Tá
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Bell, Michael.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Bree, Declan.
- Broughan, Tommy.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Burke, Liam.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Costello, Joe.
- Coveney, Hugh.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Penrose, William.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ring, Michael.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Durkan, Bernard J.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Fitzgerald, Frances.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McDowell, Derek.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mulvihill, John.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- Ryan, John.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Upton, Pat.
Níl
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Brennan, Matt.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Coughlan, Mary.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Ellis, John.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Foley, Denis.
- Harney, Mary.
- Hughes, Séamus.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Keogh, Helen.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P.J.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Ó Cuív, Éamon.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Power, Seán.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith, Michael.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Woods, Michael.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Jim Higgins and Brian Fitzgerald; Níl, Deputies Dermot Ahern and Callely.
Question declared carried.
Not many of you support Minister Lowry.
The next question for the House is that the proceedings on the Second Stage of No. 4 shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m. tonight. Is that satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. I must insist that the House settle down to business in proper order. Commotion in the lobbies must cease.
They are all in shock, a Ceann Comhairle. I asked the Taoiseach last week if it would be possible to get the legislative programme for the session and he stated that matter would be cleared up at the next Government meeting. I do not know if the Government met on Thursday or this morning but will the Minister for Finance indicate when the Opposition can expect to get if not the entire legislative programme at least a good indication of what we will be doing this session?
The Government will be meeting on Thursday. The legislative programme will be cleared for this session and will be available to the leader of the Opposition and to other Members on Friday morning.
I am delighted to see the Minister for Finance taking the Order of Business. May I ask him when we will see legislation to provide for the establishment of a third banking force?
The details of that complex legislation are still being discussed. It will be available as soon as possible. I cannot give a precise date.
This year?
That is the intention.
Will it be this century?
The Minister for Finance will be aware it has been standard practice over the years for the Government to meet the chairman and chief executives of semi-State companies. Because of declining morale in semi-State companies, will the Minister for Finance indicate if such a meeting has been organised?
There were too many meetings in the past behind closed doors.
A Deputy
Did that scare the Minister?
That matter does not arise now. It can be raised at another time in accordance with the procedures of this House.
In view of the appalling delays which have developed in the courts system, will the Minister for Finance indicate when it is proposed to reintroduce the Courts and Courts Officers Bill and when it is proposed to appoint the 17 judges the Government promised it would appoint to break the logjam in the system? Also, will the Minister indicate whether he intends to allocate money in the budget to provide accommodation for the additional judges?
The first matter referred to by the Deputy is in order, the other matter is not.
I understand it is intended to introduce the legislation to which the Deputy referred this month.
What success is the Minister for Finance having in persuading his colleagues to cut back on their budgetary demands? Given that the Taoiseach is well known for his commitment to publishing the Book of Estimates early, when are we likely to see the Book of Estimates?
I intend to have the Book of Estimates published and available for distribution by the end of November.
Has the Minister for Finance approved the spending of £126,000 on consultants to dig for evidence on State companies to support the allegations of the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications?
It is easy to find out about Deputy Brennan. He did not do anything in his time.
It is public spending.
The Minister will answer to the taxpayers.
Deputy Brennan, that is a perfectly good question and should be tabled accordingly.
Has this House any jurisdiction over An Bord Pleanála? A constituent of mine had his application deemed ineligible because he was half an hour early——
I am sorry, Deputy, you will have to raise that matter in the proper form.
It arrived before 9.15 a.m. and they said they could not take it. It was not a question of the application arriving too late, it arrived too early. I am serious about this matter.
I will assist the Deputy but he will have to be serious in tabling that matter at the proper time.
Will the Minister for Finance publish the cost framework undertaken on the White Paper on Education? In a parliamentary reply last week, the Minister for Education indicated that she and the Minister for Finance had decided it was not appropriate or useful to publish those figures. As an Opposition spokesman on education who is interested in formulating education and acting constructively in the education debate I ask the Minister to publish those figures.
Matters appertaining to White Papers are not appropriate now, Deputy.
In view of the statement of the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications there this morning that too many meetings have been held behind closed doors, will the Minister for Finance indicate when the next open air session between the Taoiseach and the chairmen of semi-State companies will take place? Should we tender for the marquee?
I appreciate the novelty of the question.
I am delighted the Minister is present to answer questions this morning. Having regard to the trenchant views expressed by the Taoiseach and Minister De Rossa in this House on the constitutional difficulties that arise when the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste leave the country at the same time——
I thought the Deputy had something relevant to raise at this time; clearly he has not.
The Ceann Comhairle is in charge.
Will the Minister for Finance say if the proposals published overnight by his colleague in the Labour Party under which motorists will be put under another sustained attack and the lottery funds raided to support local government funds——
The Deputy must allow the business of the House to proceed.
Will the Minister for Finance say when the governors of universities Bill will be published? Will he say whether a draft Bill has been sent to the heads of universities?
I understand it is hoped to publish that Bill in December or early January.
Can the Minister confirm that the heads of universities have a copy of a draft Bill?
No.
This is not Question Time.