Vol. 457 No. 7
12 Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for the Environment if he will introduce legislation to control and limit the number of caravans which can congregate in any one location; and if he will also legislate for the length of time that they can remain in any one location, praticularly where sanitary facilities are not available. [13547/95]
There is already a substantial array of powers available to local authorities and the Garda Síochána to deal with difficulties associated with the indiscriminate location of temporary dwellings. These powers are contained in the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948; the Road Traffic Act, 1961; the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1992; and the Roads Act, 1993.
While it is a matter for local authorities and the Garda to use these powers in appropriate cases, my Department has sought information from local authorities as an input to the review of the effectiveness of the existing legislation. However, in so far as the travelling community are concerned, the solution to the existing problems lies in the provision of suitable accommodation, in houses or on halting sites, rather than further legislation.
If there are substantial powers available, that is news to me and to many gardaí. My native town Dungarvan, has been inundated with hordes of itinerants and the nearby seaside resorts have been inundated with convoys of new age travellers. The gardaí and the health authorities tell me they do not have power to move them on. I am aware it is part of a greater problem to which the Minister alluded in his reply. Can he offer hope of relief from this awful disturbance to the hardpressed local authorities and the beleagured residents?
I appreciate the content of the task force report on itinerants but it could take decades to implement it. Can meaningful legislation to deal with this problem be implemented urgently?
We are talking about two different categories, our own native travellers' needs can be dealt with in the housing policies we have spelled out. There is no shortage of resources for halting sites, transient sites and local authority or public housing. I think that is the solution, not legislation. The itinerants are our citizens who must be looked after and it is time we faced up to this issue. The good local authorities take on their responsibilities and bear an inordinate share in trying to solve the problem but it is a matter for every local authority to take on the responsibility of providing for its own citizens in a way that meets their need. Until all local authorities take on that job — and the new task force report specifies what needs to be done — the problems will occur in various areas around the country. I strongly urge, as I have done on previous occassions, local authorities to make decisions on the location of halting and transient sites and proper housing provisions for those travellers who wish to settle down.
The new age traveller is a different category. I am aware that Deputy Deasy made representations on the issue of trespass. There is a law to deal with trespass on private property but the individual landowner must take the appropriate legal step and seek an injunction.
As I found out during the summer the legal ownership of coves, beaches and the foreshore is tricky. I am not at issue with the Minister on the itinerant problem, however the major difficulty is that it will take years to solve it. I do not believe that halting sites are the answer. Until such time as itinerants have the same standard of housing as every other citizen we will have major problems. In the interim will the Minister not allow travellers to congregate in one location as this causes untold misery for the settled community in the area?
As I have indicated to the Deputy there is a body of law extant and it is up to the local authorities and the Garda Síochána to exercise the law. To enumerate, section 31 of the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act provides that a sanitary authority may by order prohibit the erection or retention of temporary dwellings on any land or water in their sanitary district if they are of the opinion that such erection or rentention would be prejudicial to public health, or the amenities of the localities or would interfere to an unreasonable extent with traffic on any road. The making of a prohibition order is a reserved function. The Maximum fine for illegal camping is £1,000 and a maximum of £200 per day for a continuing offence. The Road Traffic Act allowas for illegally parked or abandoned cars on a public road to be towed away. The Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act, 1992, provides for the removal of temporary dwellings from certain locations. Section 69 of the Road Traffic Act, 1993, prohibits the placing of temporary dwellings on national primary routes and section 71 prohibits the unlawful trading on public roads and so on. There is a body of law extant.
It is not having any effect.
I do not think having more law is the solution.
The list of legislation the Minister read out sounded impressive but it must not work as the problem still exists. I understand Deputy Deasy's problem but I view it from a city perspective. Some local authorities accept their responsibilities and provide accommodation and housing for travelling people but in Dublin the problem arises at the boundary line between different local authorities. Each local authority may have its own plan but acts in isolation and there is no co-ordination. A body such as the Department is required to lay down standards. I can talk about Finglas or Ballymun where the corporation has provided halting sites but across the road in the green belt, which is the Fingal County Council area, there are illegal settlers. What is needed is a body that will act impartially and implement the legislation. The local authorities may accept their own responsibility but if their nearest house is a mile or two away they ignore illegal sites. I support Deputy Deasy's viewpoint but I have a slightly different perspective. Will the Minister introduce legislation or regulations because what is in force is not working?
There is a body of law that is not effective in every circumstance because we are subject to the overriding decision of the courts. I still firmly believe that the problem will not be solved until such time as each local authority takes on its responsibilities and makes provision for the travellers in its functional area.
They are dumping then on one another.
If that is done, the problem will be resolved. The Minister of State in my Department is a former chairperson of the task force and he will follow through on its report in so far as it affects housing. The report considers ways in which the Deputy's objective of a co-ordinated national strategy can be achieved. The Government has already made the decision that the task force recommendations will be acted on.
To put the legislation I have outlined in context there is the structure of the Supreme Court case, 1980. MacDonald v. Dublin County Council regarding the need for the local housing authority to offer alternative accommodation to families that are being displaced prior to any court granting an injunction requiring travellers to move on. Until we have these facilities and until local authorities face up to their responsibilities to provide facilities for their citizens we will have the problem of a law that people regard as not being enforced.
I agree with Deputy Noel Ahern that co-ordination is badly needed, and I know the boundary area to which he refers. I agree with the Minister also that it is time to act. It is not all bad. I taught travelling children. That experience was one of the most rewarding of my teaching career. Lack of sanitation for travellers led to grazing land being unusable. The Minister should consider the electorel legislation which he did not mention. The people we are discussing are disenfranchised and often feel alienated. They are underrepresented and misunderstood. Some of the vacancies in the Seanad, caused tragically by the deaths of former colleagues, might provide an opening for remedying the situation, because without representation people cannot partake responsibly in society to the extent the Minister would like. It might provide an opportunity for us all to improve our understanding of what is ultimately a different culture.
That is outside the realms of this question.
It relates to legislation.
I submitted a question today which was disallowed on the basis that is was not the Minister's responsibility to implement the recommendations of the task force report on travellers. Whose responsibility is it? Will the Minister consider inserting definitions in legislation relating to travellers? I have no objection to what the Minister has said about travellers. I support him 100 per cent in that. However, some traders move out of houses in County Limerick and come to County Meath or to Deputy Deasy's constituency in Waterford. So also do our new friends, namely, the New Age travellers, who have arrived mainly from Great Britain. Definitions would enable us to differentiate between them. I do not believe the courts would accept that the McDonnell case applies to people who set out in a convoy early in the summer to go to other parts of the country to trade and to annoy and inflict themselves on other people during the summer months. Action should be taken in regard to that.
The Minister responsible for implementing the recommendations of the task force report on travellers is the Minister for Equality and Law Reform. However, individual components of the strategy will fall, in due course, to be carried out by individual Ministers in carrying out their respective responsibilities.
I agree with the Deputy regarding the distinction between mobile traders and travellers. In 1994 when the Deputy's party and mine were closer in our working relationship, the Government established an interdepartmental group on mobile traders, and the Law Reform Commission was asked to review the law of trespass. That is ongoing. My Department has issued a circular listing liaison officers designated by local authorities to facilitate co-operation between local authorities and the Garda Síochána in monitoring and controlling the movement of mobile traders. In addition, the Department has just issued a circular to local authorities seeking reports on the usage and effectiveness of the existing legislation and any specific recommendations for amending and strengthening the law in relation to mobile traders. We are awaiting the reports of local authorities on that matter which I agree is quite separate from the general issue of travellers.
