Mary Harney
Question:3 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the discussions, if any, he has had with the Alliance Party. [3669/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
Mary Harney
Question:4 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the discussions, if any, he has had, or plans to have, with the Ulster Unionist Party. [3670/97]
Mary Harney
Question:5 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to visit Northern Ireland. [3671/97]
Mary Harney
Question:6 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach his travel plans for St. Patrick's Day. [3672/97]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, together.
I intend to visit the United States over the St. Patrick's Day period. While the programme has yet to be finalised, I expect to meet many of the key political and economic figures in the US, including of course President Clinton. As on previous occasions, I will seek to renew and harness the unique fund of goodwill which exists there towards Ireland's economic and political interests.
I have already reported on all the meetings I have had to date with the Northern Ireland parties. While I have no immediate plans for further such meetings, the Government is engaged in intensive contacts on a daily basis under the auspices of the multi-party talks in Belfast. These talks continue to be the primary axis for interaction between the Government and the Northern Ireland parties. I should add, however, that the Government maintains extensive informal contacts outside the talks process with representatives of both communities. I plan to visit Northern Ireland in the near future but, for security reasons, I am not in a position to give any details.
In addition to formal and informal contacts with political representatives, the Government endeavours to keep in touch with the broadest possible spectrum of opinion in Northern Ireland. For example, I had a very useful and wide-ranging meeting yesterday with the four main Church leaders. Contacts of that kind are most important because all leaders — whether political, church or community — and individuals have key roles and responsibilities in the process of reconciliation.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the IRA's statement at the weekend makes it perfectly clear that it intends to continue using violence to achieve its political ends? Will he further agree that it is the pursuit of that terror campaign which continues to exclude Sinn Féin from the talks process and will continue to exclude it for as long as the IRA is determined to use violence to achieve its political ends?
To answer the first part of the Deputy's question, the IRA's statement is profoundly depressing and shows a lack of political imagination on the part of the republican movement. It is very important for the republican movement to recognise that an opportunity for it to engage in the talks it had sought for years had been created and existed on 10 June and that a ceasefire before that date would have allowed it to take part for the first time in face to face discussions with all of the other parties, something it had sought for many years but from which, by persisting with its decision which had been taken earlier last year to resume violence, it excluded itself. To answer the second part of the question, that continues to be the case. The Mitchell principles are very clear in regard to that matter, as is the position of both Governments.
I acknowledge that talking is a good thing and I want the talks to continue because it is better for people to engage in dialogue than not talk to each other. However, has the Government any plans in advance of general elections here and in Britain to inject life into the talks process?
The talks in Belfast represent the most comprehensive talks process in terms of their participation which has occurred on this island for the past 75 years. Representatives of all the principal Unionist parties, the SDLP and the two Governments are sitting around the same table for the first time in a long time. Regrettably Sinn Féin is not present because the IRA is continuing with its campaign of violence. However, it is important to recognise the comprehensive and historic nature of these talks. It is also important to recognise that we have put the talks in the hands of an independent chairman, Senator Mitchell, who is ably assisted by General De Chastelain and Mr. Harri Holkeri who are working to ensure that all parties are heard. As the Deputy indicated in her supplementary question, it is very important that we continue to give positive support to the talks process.
I understand fully the concern that the principal difficulty, that is the decommissioning of arms and when it should take place, has not yet been resolved. However, both Governments, the independent chairman and the parties, to varying degrees, are continuing to work intensively even as we speak to overcome these difficulties. On another occasion I said I believed we must use every opportunity which exists in a constructive way. This is the reason I sought, for example, to use the Christmas recess as a constructive gap to help us overcome some of the difficulties which existed. Unfortunately, that endeavour was not successful on that occasion. I will look at any gap which may occur in the discussions in the future as an opportunity, not as a problem. In preparing for any such gap I will seek, in conjunction with the British Government, the other participants and the chairman to use it in a constructive way to create conditions which will enable the talks to resume with an even better prospect of forward movement than may currently be visible.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the continuation of the IRA's deplorable operations which endanger life and peace makes a mockery of the alleged commitments to peace? Will he also agree that sometimes when matters are at their worst in Northern Ireland opportunities can be created to move matters forward? Is he confident that Senator Mitchell will maintain and sustain the necessary effort in the task in which he is involved or will he, as is unfortunately being increasingly stated, stay only until the break-up of the talks? Is the Taoiseach saying that the effort he is putting in now is an endeavour to reach a conclusion prior to the British general election?
Senator Mitchell's role has been exceptionally positive despite the many discouragements he has faced. It is fair to say that he regards his involvement in the talks as a labour of love, something he does out of a sense of commitment to all the participants and an anxiety to serve all of them in a fair minded way. Regardless of their initial dispositions, I think the participants have come to respect him greatly in his role. He is making intensive efforts to create positive conditions for forward movement in the talks.
As I have stated repeatedly in the House, it is not particularly realistic to assume that a problem which was not solved during 200 years of Irish history and which led to 25 years of the most appalling violence might be overcome and set aside in an eight-month period of discussions. It is important that the parties continue to talk and that there is a determination to move forward. The differences which exist are very real and substantial and the fears which underlie them are even more real and substantial and become, as I think the Deputy acknowledged, even more accentuated by every incident of violence, which in itself makes the issue of arms a more difficult one to resolve. Every incident of violence raises the profile of the arms issue and makes any agreement about arms more difficult to reach. Those who wish to see the talks move forward must do everything they can to ensure that violence is not used. The more violence there is the more difficult it is to overcome the most difficult question in the talks, that is the issue of arms.
I disagree with the Taoiseach regarding the multi-party talks. Has he discussed with the leaders of the Northern Ireland parties the futility of the current structure of the talks process? Will the Taoiseach discuss with the British Prime Minister the possibility of giving Senator George Mitchell more power so that he will not have to listen for hours to aimless speeches aimed at filibustering? While the talks may be a labour of love to Senator Mitchell, as they are currently structured they are a form of embarrassment.
The Deputy should reflect on the reverse of what he is saying if it were to happen. Talks which involve dealing with people with whom one has a profound disagreement are obviously more difficult and time consuming than those with somebody with whom one is already in large agreement. The talks currently taking place in Belfast are between people who profoundly disagree with one another on the fundamental question of allegiance; they disagree on the State to which they belong. It is an ambitious and difficult task for anybody to attempt to bridge that gap but I do not see any substitute for listening and talking, even listening to people who talk at length. The idea that one can somehow concertina all this discussion and have some form of solution imposed from the Chair or elsewhere is naive in the context of Northern Ireland. We are talking against a background of 200 to 300 years of division. There comes a time, however, when initiatives are necessary to move matters forward but they must be taken against a background of the participants recognising that they are necessary. Any suggestion that an initiative is being taken in defiance of the wishes of some or a large number of the participants would doom it to failure. A considerable degree of patience, therefore, is necessary. This is a democratic process and democratic processes in divided societies by their nature are slow, difficult and testing of patience.
Will the Taoiseach agree that disputes about routes of marches cannot justify any group of people intimidating others from going to their place of worship? Did the Taoiseach raise the Harryville problem with the Church leaders he met yesterday? Did he get any assurances that they can use their influence to prevent a recurrence of this form of intimidation?
I specifically raised the matter, referred to on a number of occasions by Deputy McDowell, of people parading to churches and the influence those holding services in those churches have on the manner people process to and from divine service. It is important that those who preach in churches exercise their responsibility to ensure that not only is the proceeding within the church informed by Christian charity but that the proceeding to and from the church is also informed by Christian charity. I made that point quite strongly. The same consideration applies where people choose to parade past churches of a different denomination. The idea that people should use parades in a way that demonstrates domination, particularly if they do so claiming inspiration from Christian principles, is wrong. I made that point in the House and when I had the occasion to do so in meeting the Church leaders yesterday.
In regard to St. Patrick's Day, the Taoiseach said he will be making arrangements concerning his trip. In making those arrangements will he take the opportunity to express his full support for and confidence in the US Ambassador to Ireland, Mrs. Jean Kennedy Smith, for her outstanding work on behalf of the people in this State? Will the Taoiseach also emphasise our hope that she continues in that role? She has been a great supporter in bringing peace to this country over recent years.
I am sorry, Deputy, but the Chair must intervene. I am concerned that reference might be made to any member of the diplomatic corps.
Since I have already made my point, I am sure the Taoiseach will agree.
Not with the condonance of the Chair.
Taking account of what was done by the dirty tricks brigade in relation to Martha Pope and Senator Mitchell——
Which brigade?
The dirty tricks brigade.
I do not know them.
The Taoiseach knows who was identified as causing those rumours and obviously the same sources were used in this instance. Will the Taoiseach use diplomatic efforts to condemn such smear campaigns against officials sent here by the United States government to assist us?
Before the Taoiseach replies I must point out that we should be proceeding now to deal with priority questions. We must be brief.
I do not pay much attention to the newspaper reports of the kind to which the Deputy referred. I do not have the slightest doubt that the US Administration does not pay much attention to those reports any more than it would pay attention to those who might inspire them.
On the basis that there will not be any substantial development between now and the elections here and in the UK, does the Taoiseach agree it would be an important initiative to encourage John Major to ensure British officials meet with Sinn Féin, behind the scenes or otherwise?
I do not accept the premise upon which the Deputy's question is based.