It is proposed to take No. 20 — Children Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed); No. 21 — Credit Union Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed) and No. 4 — Equal Status Bill, 1997, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m. Private Members' Business shall be No. 49 — Punishment of Aggravated Robbery Bill, 1997, Second Stage.
Order of Business.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
There is one matter to be put to the House on the late sitting.
Before I state whether we agree to that, I wish to raise another matter. Last week I asked the Taoiseach if he would agree to issue the Government document on the deflector system, in response to which he told me to table a question to the relevant Minister, which my colleague, Deputy Brennan, did. However, the Minister did not place the document in the Library or forward a copy of it to me, as I had requested in the House. On the basis that the Minister has seen fit to give the document to one of the bodies involved in the south, will the Taoiseach confirm if the report will be given to the Opposition?
The report was given to the body in question in the south following a requirement of the court. That was binding on the Minister because of that court decision. The Minister dealt with this matter in an Adjournment debate. If the Deputy wishes to obtain further information, I again invite him to table a question to the Minister.
This is an issue of great importance which I have declined to press over a number of weeks. Public meetings on it have been held throughout the country over a long period. The Taoiseach will remember one he attended in Carrigaline in autumn 1994. This matter has continued to develop since then. I considered it responsible that we should await the findings and the conclusions of the Government report which has cost the taxpayer a good deal of money. I do not see any reason an independent report commissioned by the Government and now in the hands of others cannot be given to the politicians elected to this House.
It was given to an interested party.
Are we not interested parties?
This is the Legislature.
I accept it was given to an interested party, but it should also have been given to the Opposition.
The Deputy should have patience.
We will not be patient.
That is the problem.
I ask that this report be given to the Opposition. A litany of reports has been commissioned by the Government, but it has refused to circulate any of them. Last year approximately £10 million was spent on reports. We will not accept this position. This is an important report and the people concerned cannot make valid judgments on this issue without receiving it.
The report in question was prepared as a result of a court case taken by a private company seeking a particular decision by a Minister. The court ordered that this report be prepared by the Minister. It also ordered that the report be provided to the company in question. The Minister is acting in accordance with court decisions in this matter.
That does not stop him giving us a copy of the report.
The Minister will in due course make such decisions as he deems necessary on any information he should give in regard to the contents of this report.
This is a sitting of a House of the Oireachtas, not a county council meeting.
Despite the impression the Deputy sometimes gives to the contrary.
Because the report relates to the affairs of a private company, it contains much commercially sensitive information that is properly confined to the knowledge of the company in question.
That is nonsense. This is about whether it is feasible.
In a four page reply to an Adjournment matter last week the Minister did not once mention this was a court order document. He said he was giving it to South Coast TV because of its application. Is it not a nonsense to release a document to a community group with hundreds of members and refuse to give it to this House?
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle
We cannot debate this matter now. I am about to put the question on the matter before me.
This is supposed to be the Government of openness, transparency and accountability. Will the Taoiseach put the document up behind the pane of glass?
We will have to employ a window cleaner.
Question put: "That the late sitting be agreed to."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 63; Níl 50.
Tá
- Ahearn, Theresa.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Bhamjee, Moosajee.
- Bhreathnach, Niamh.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Broughan, Thomas.
- Costello, Joe.
- Crawford, Seymour.
- Creed, Michael.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Fitzgerald, Brian.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Fox, Mildred.
- Gallagher, Pat.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Seán.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Burton, Joan.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Lynch, Kathleen.
- McCormark, Pádraic.
- McDowell, Derek.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McManus, Liz.
- Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- Owen, Nora.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ring, Michael.
- Ryan, John.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sargent, Trevor.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sheehan, P.J.
- Shortall, Róisín.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Upton, Pat.
- Walsh, Éamon.
Níl
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Noel.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Cullen, Martin.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Ellis, John.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Foley, Denis.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Seán.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Keaveney, Cecilia.
- Kenneally, Brendan,
- Keogh, Helen.
- Killeen, Tony.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, James.
- Moffatt, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donnell, Liz.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Malley, Desmond.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Ryan, Eoin.
- Smith, Brendan.
- Smith Michael.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Woods, Michael.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies J. Higgins and B. Fitzgerald; Níl, Deputies D. Ahern and Callely.
Question declared carried.
When will the prisons' board Bill and the courts service Bill be circulated? About five months ago a courts service was promised on a non-statutory basis within a week. Perhaps the Taoiseach could tell us when it will be produced on a statutory basis.
April or May this year.
When will we see the first Finance Bill for 1997?
We expect to see it on 26 March.
The programme for Government promises to allow competition between MMDS and deflector systems. When will the necessary legislation be brought before the House? Will the Taoiseach also ensure that the Government will release the report given to the community group in Cork but not to the Dáil? I am told this is called "The Carrigaline One".
Let us not have a repeat of what has gone before.
Will the Taoiseach release this document so we can look at it?
I have discussed this matter with the Minister. The report was commissioned on foot of an examination of the matter as the result of a court decision. The report was not commissioned at the request of the court but the examination was. The report contains information of a commercially sensitive nature affecting the applicant.
That is nonsense.
The Minister wishes to discuss the contents of the report with the South Coast company before coming to a decision on the publication or otherwise of the report.
Given that hundreds of people now have the report or have access to it why can the Dáil not have it?
This is to repeat something which happened earlier. If Members are dissatisfied with the Taoiseach's reply they have a remedy. We cannot debate the matter now.
In the context of legislation, given the failure of the Government to provide this basic information to Members of the House and the public, will the Taoiseach consider withdrawing the Freedom of Information Bill because of this blatant hypocrisy?
I call Deputy Fitzgerald. Deputy Martin will desist.
On one hand the Government says it wants free access to all information, on the other it refuses to publish a basic document that is of major public interest in my area. It is political hypocrisy to peddle the idea of freedom of information when we cannot get access to this document.
Deputy Martin, please resume your seat.
Have one or more Ministers considered legislative proposals or prepared heads of Bills to deal with an issue which may embrace more than one Government Department? Other jurisdictions have had difficulty dealing with this problem and it is currently rampant in ours.
Will the Deputy please come to the point?
This problem is prevalent in our jurisdiction.
(Interruptions.)
Have legislative proposals been prepared or amendments to the Constitution proposed to deal with a problem which is causing much grief——
Deputy, please refer to legislation.
A Cheann Comhairle, please permit me to focus on the problem. Is legislation or a constitutional amendment proposed to deal with the problem whereby young couples approaching estate agents to purchase houses are confronted with two rather restrictive and immoral practices? The first is where a deposit is lodged by the young couple who are subsequently advised that there is a higher bidder. Second——
I am sorry, Deputy Fitzgerald, I have given you every opportunity to come to the point but you have failed to do so.
I would come to the point if I was allowed half a minute. The Taoiseach is not taking an interest. I am talking about young couples on low wages trying to buy houses.
The Deputy will have to raise that in another way.
I am sorry, Sir, I will not accept the Taoiseach sitting there with his hand under his chin. This is a serious issue for young couples who are experiencing difficulty.
Deputy Fitzgerald, if it is so serious I want to help you. My office is at your disposal. Raise it another time but not now.
It is so serious that I must raise it now. The mirth and laughter of the Government is——
Deputy Fitzgerald is refusing to obey the Chair. I must ask him to desist forthwith.
I cannot desist, Sir, with all due respect.
Then you had better leave the House.
The Taoiseach is ignoring the plight of young couples who are being abused by estate agents on two fronts. First, they pay a deposit and think they have secured a house but are subsequently denied it.
This is grossly disorderly.
Second, they inform estate agents they have secured a loan, they are denied——
I must now insist that you leave the House if you do not desist forthwith.
These practices are prevalent but what is the Government doing about them?
Deputy Fitzgerald, please listen to me. The Deputy should be aware that this is not Question Time. It is disgraceful conduct on the Deputy's part. Leave the House.
The young people will not forget. There has been a coup d'état by the Tánaiste.