Vol. 481 No. 3
4 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Health and Children the action, if any, his Department will take against tobacco companies who have sold cigarettes in the State by way of legal claims on behalf of the State to recoup State expenditure incurred providing treatment for tobacco related illnesses such as cancer; and if he will make a statement on the matter in the context of the recent litigation in this area which has taken place in the United States. [15972/97]
My Department continues to monitor developments in the United States regarding litigation against tobacco companies. The Deputy will be aware that individual states in the US have used a number of legal bases in pursuing cases, some of which are based on specific federal and state statutes. The outcome of the US litigation is also being considered by other EU member states and there are obvious advantages in harmonising our actions with any initiatives which may emerge at EU level.
The Deputy will appreciate that any initiative on this matter will entail a great deal of preparation and careful assessment of the strategy to be pursued. I assure the Deputy this matter will continue to receive a high level of priority in my Department's work programme in close consultation with health boards and other relevant statutory and voluntary agencies.
What data or information is currently available in the Department in relation to expenditure incurred in treating tobacco related diseases and illnesses? Has any computation been undertaken of the cost to the State borne by the taxpayer in providing medical treatment to those affected by tobacco related illnesses? In the context of the Minister's reply to Question No. 1, where he confirmed there are more than 6,000 deaths annually in the State from tobacco related illness such as cancer, emphysema and heart disease, does he agree it is time to declare war on the tobacco companies in this country?
I do not have with me the detailed data the Deputy requested but I will ensure that he receives the information which is available.
We must evaluate the position. A detailed legal appraisal of the likely evidential requirements of Irish courts will be required. A key question could be whether the courts would accept epidemiological evidence as opposed to taking specific evidence. An insistence on the latter would rule out any type of consolidated or class action. Regarding the actions already taken, many of the states in the US used alleged breaches of domestic anti-trust laws to pursue the tobacco companies. Such breaches included anti-competitive pricing arrangements, failure to conduct adequate research on dangerous products and failure to develop safer products. It has also been argued in the US that tobacco companies were responsible for inducing tobacco related diseases and states had the expense of treating these. The companies were therefore unjustifiably enriched at the states' expense. This was the basis for a successful action in America.
As the Deputy is aware, the successful claims are a relatively recent development. We should try to harmonise the issue at EU level and work with our health boards and voluntary agencies on this matter. We need to appraise what would be required in Irish courts in terms of taking a successful action. I have no problem in principle beginning that task. However, it is important to carry out the necessary preparatory work so that we do not end up doing unfocused work that has no chance of success.
Will the Minister specifically clarify what preparatory work, if any, in this area has been conducted by his Department since he took office? Is he aware that in a reply to a written question yesterday I was told by the Department that no data of any nature exists regarding the cost to taxpayers of treating tobacco related illnesses? Does the Minister agree, given that litigation in this area commenced some time ago in the United States and that 17 states are currently litigating against tobacco companies, it is time his Government woke up to this issue and took a more active approach?
Does he agree our current strategies to discourage children and young people from smoking have failed abysmally? In common with the United States, the tobacco companies have contrived to sell cigarettes illegally to young people, who are becoming nicotine addicts, and they have concealed research. Does the Minister accept the legal position with regard to the facility of the State, through the Department of Health and Children and health boards, to sue tobacco companies for large scale damages is in effect no different from the legal system under which the 17 states operate in America?
The Deputy is aware two different legal systems are involved. However, we will not debate that now.
The type of actions available are similar.
Regarding the written reply the Deputy received, I said earlier that if data was available I would ensure he received it. It is not in front of me today.
The Minister did not know if it was available.
I do not have it. No work has been done on this issue since I took office on 23 June, but no work was done on it in the previous two and a half years when this matter was ongoing in the US. We should not be pedantic about this issue. Successful actions have been taken by Attorneys General in various states in America. We are taking cognisance of that and we are considering how this issue can be addressed and if it would be possible to recoup damages against tobacco companies in this country. At this early stage of my tenure as Minister, I will take up this matter with vigour now we know where we are headed.
I listened with interest to a radio interview the Minister gave last week. I got the distinct impression from it that not a great deal of work is being done on this matter but perhaps I am wrong. Has the Minister asked the Attorney General for advice on whether a case would lie in normal civil law or under statute in Ireland? Is the Minister aware that several health boards have indicated they would like to take a case? Has he been in touch with the Western Health Board, which has indicated its intention of taking a case?
I refer to the interview. I did not suggest that much work has been done, I said little work has been done by successive Governments on the matter. We now have to proceed from there. This is a matter I will take up. The Attorney General is aware of the situation and has been asked to evaluate it and report back to me with preliminary advice. Detailed preparatory work will have to be done. I am aware of recent media reports of a call by some members of the Western Health Board for the board to seek legal advice in regard to taking unilateral action against tobacco companies. When my officials contacted the chief executive officer he stated his preferred option would be to consider the matter jointly with other health boards or for the matter to be considered centrally. The preliminary consideration will be central and we will take the matter from there.
Will the Minister acknowledge that in the five months he has been in office the litigation, which had started in the United States earlier, has made dramatic advances and has made it clear there are substantial grounds for the State and the health boards to take appropriate action against the tobacco companies? Will the Minister agree it is undesirable that this State sit back and do nothing to co-ordinate a policy on this issue between all member states? Will the Minister give an undertaking that he will arrange for the Attorney General's office and any other legal advisers the Minister may wish to consult about this issue, to make direct contact with the appropriate law officers in the states of Illinois, Mississippi, Minnesota, West Virginia, Florida, Massachusetts, Louisiana, Texas, Maryland, Washington, Connecticut, Arizona, Kansas, Michigan, Oklahoma and New Jersey, all of which are successfully processing litigation against tobacco companies and which have resulted in the opening of talks in the context of multi-billion pound settlements being entered into by tobacco companies?
The Attorney General was in the US last week. Over lunch he met a person in the Administration who is acquainted with this subject matter and would have had a preliminary discussion with him. This is my first Question Time in this Administration. Unlike my predecessors I will begin work in this area. Preliminary work has been done. I am not suggesting detailed work is done but work has begun and I will report to the House intermittently and be held accountable.
Is the Minister——
I am unclear as to what the Minister said in relation to action that might be taken at EU level. Has any action yet been contemplated at EU level? Has he brought the matter to the attention of the Council of Ministers or does he expect to do so in the near future? If he has not already done so perhaps he will undertake to do so?
I have not yet attended my first Council of Ministers' meeting. I understand there will be related matters on the agenda. We will have a strong position at that Council of Ministers' meeting. The outcome of the litigation in the US is being considered by other member states and there are obvious advantages in seeking to harmonise our actions on any issues that may emerge at EU level. That is not to say we cannot proceed to do work at national level to see how we can advance the issue. It is a preliminary matter at this stage and I will report in much greater detail at a later date.
I call Deputy Ring for a short supplementary.
Will the Minister make grant aid available to assist the health board to take this case against the tobacco companies? In the west there is a high incidence of cancer and there is a major problem at St. Luke's Hospital.
The Deputy's supplementary should be relevant.
This is a very serious matter.
Yes, but it is not relevant to this question.
It is relevant because it concerns a cancer patient. A constituent of mine who has been waiting for three weeks to get into St. Luke's is very ill and we cannot get a bed for her. I ask the Minister to whom I have written today to investigate the matter. I had another case last week where a constituent——
The Deputy should not abuse the facility which the Chair has given him.
——who has been waiting for a month received a telephone call the night before to say there were no beds. Will the Minister investigate the matter?
I asked the Deputy not to abuse any latitude I give him.
I will not but I am very upset about it.
The Deputy should raise the matter in another manner. He cannot raise it under this question.
The Minister for Health and Children is here today.
I tried to accommodate the Deputy but he has taken unfair advantage.
I appreciate that but I am trying to raise a very serious problem.
The Deputy may raise it at another time with the Minister but not now. I will allow one short final supplementary.
Perhaps the Minister will answer both questions.
The chief executive officer in the Western Health Board, whom my officials have contacted, is anxious to have close consultation with other health boards and relevant and voluntary statutory agencies. My Department is not in the business of giving out grant aid for bringing cases but is in the business of evaluating the legal position. That job should be done centrally before proceeding to do anything else. In relation to any representations I have received from Deputy Ring and other Deputies, I will be glad to take up individual cases.
Will the Minister sign the letters?
The Minister has been in office five months.
Three months.
Is he saying that so far the totality of the action taken by the Government in dealing with this issue — despite all the advances in the cases brought in the US during his period in office — is that the Attorney General during lunch in America last week mentioned this issue as an aside to some member of the Administration in the context of a general discussion about all sorts of other issues? When will the Minister and the Government take this issue sufficiently seriously to make direct contact and co-ordinate this State's actions with the type of approach taken by the lawyers representing each of the states I named in the US? Given that this is Europe Against Cancer Week will the Minister agree the Government's response to dealing with this issue and the events in the US can at best, in charity, be described as lethargic?
Unfortunately the Deputy has a tendency to become pedantic. During my tenure in office much more work will be done on this issue than in the tenure of my predecessor. On the question of being lethargic, I understand ASH — the anti-smoking group — sent correspondence to Fine Gael sometime ago and has not yet received a reply.
In other words there was a couple of minutes chat over lunch.
The Deputy is wrong.
That is some research.
