Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 23 Oct 1997

Vol. 482 No. 2

An Bord Glas Annual Report, 1996: Statements (Resumed).

Mr. Kirk

In the context of our discussion on the report of An Bord Glas, one is reminded of the blanket criticism made in this House in respect of State boards in recent years. Listening to the Minister of State's contribution, I was struck by the modest budget An Bord Glas has utilised since its establishment in 1990. Given the significance of the role of An Bord Glas in market co-ordination, and its general co-ordinating role, the public expenditure involved is quite small and there is a reasonable value for money return.

An Bord Glas provides a focal point for development in the horticultural sector. Many of the growers involved in this sector felt alienated by and isolated from the system because the supports and market interventions put in place for beef, milk and other producers were not available to them.

The potato sector, mushroom production, nursery stock, the protection of crops, field vegetable production and soft fruit and tough fruit production are the main areas of concern to An Bord

Glas. The reality is, however, that no matter how all-embracing or effective the board may be, there are a number of considerations which will have a bearing on the well-being of any of those enterprises, particularly in respect of the returns realised by growers from one year to the next. In that context, supply and demand is probably more relevant to this area than to any other. For example, if the European market is oversupplied with produce importers can bring an entire range of goods on to the Irish market, with immediate implications for growers in this country.

With regard to climatic considerations, a previous speaker stated that there will be a 10 per cent reduction in the anticipated yield of potatoes in the current year. Perhaps he was referring to a 10 per cent reduction in acreage. However, if that reduction is in acreage, it is merely a reaction to the serious depression in prices in this sector last year.

Horticulture and agriculture in general are affected by the capital outlay requirement, which is always underestimated. Economists — be they agricultural economists, individuals commenting from the political arena or others — do not appear to have a real appreciation of what is involved under the general heading of capital outlay. Regardless of the enterprise involved, a major amount of money is required to establish a business from a standing start. In many instances the return on that money is quite doubtful.

As other Members stated, the multiples have a significant role in this industry and the degree of control they exert is beyond what it should be. They are in a position to dictate to suppliers and to effectively control the market because of their dominant position, and recent changes have not improved things.

Economies of scale come much more into play here than in any other member state in the European Community. We have a small population of approximately five million people, something more than one third of the total population of London. That puts in context our additional distribution costs.

The most significant appointment made by An Bord Glas was that of a market co-ordinator in a number of different areas, particularly in the potato industry. It would be hard to imagine a sector more fragmented than the potato industry but there have been significant structural changes in that area. However, market co-ordination and the provision of information to individual growers are very important, and the market co-ordinator in that sector did an excellent job.

The seed potato sector is one area within the horticultural brief that needs to be addressed. For reasons over which An Bord Glas has no control, the development thrust for new varieties of seed potatoes is painfully slow. An Foras Talúntas, and nowadays Teagasc, have done great work in this area but there is a need for an initiative in the sector, given the contraction in the volume of seed potatoes exported and the need to develop new varieties that will have a regenerative effect on the potato industry, although I do not for a moment think we will produce the ideal variety overnight.

Surprisingly, none of the contributors to the debate referred to the potato chip area. A huge volume of potato chips are imported annually. One reason for that is the difficulty in getting a variety of potato suitable for chipping and that will provide a crop volume allowing the producer to sell at a modest price, given that the profit margins in this area are quite tight. We need to develop a suitable variety if we are to develop that sector and turn around the volume of imports. The Maris Piper was hailed as the ideal solution, but some difficulties have arisen with it. It may be possible to rectify the problem or for production techniques to come to terms with it. It is an area that needs attention and, certainly, we could justify spending some money on it.

In the protected crop sector, effectively crops grown under glass, growers have not, because poor, erratic or inadequate returns, reinvested in upgrading glasshouses and equipment to the extent that they should. The availability of natural gas was at one time hailed as the solution to high energy costs, but this has not been the case. Perhaps the Minister of State would look at technological developments in utilising energy from farmyard waste and the possibility of on-site integrated development arrangements for glasshouse and farmyard waste in close proximity.

It would be remiss of me to conclude without paying tribute to the Chief Executive of An Bord Glas, Mr. Brendan O'Donnell and the modest staff which he had available to him. They have done a tremendous amount of work. They are very dedicated people who see it as their goal to implement the various development programmes produced to An Bord Glas. I take the opportunity also to pay tribute to the horticultural unit in the Department. The number of people there is small but their dedication and commitment to their task is undoubted. Because of its nature their work is unseen, but I hope it is appreciated by people outside.

I had not realised until today that the early retirement from farming scheme is not available to somebody who wants to retire from the horticultural sector. It might be worthwhile going back to the European Commission to see if it could be extended. Many people involved in this sector would retire if they could, and it is vitally important to get young people involved in the industry in the hope that this might help to enlarge the scale of operation.

Deputy Deasy, reflecting his own constituency concerns, dwelt at some length on apple production. Undoubtedly there has been a severe contraction in the apple industry. In the Suir Valley many old orchards have been "grubbed out", and dairy cows put in to graze. That is a great pity because imports of apples are significant. It is very costly to plant orchards and there is a leadin period before there is any cash flow from it. A number of years back new orchards were planted in County Dublin, but the Suir Valley in Waterford, south Tipperary, Kilkenny and the Kells area are regarded as the ideal climatic and geographic areas for new orchards. I do not know what progress, if any, has been made on the planting of new orchards. There is a prohibition at Community level on providing any support for the planting of new ones, principally because of the surplus of apples within the Community. Even though money is available for rural development programmes under Leader, it is not possible to spend some on encouraging farmers to plant orchards. Given the undoubted role apples play in our health and well-being it is a great pity we cannot grow what we need.

I wish to pay tribute to the interim board of An Bord Glas, of which Eugene Caulfield was chairman — he was subsequently chairman of the statutory board for many years. I congratulate and thank all the board members who gave so unstintingly of their time for very little remuneration. We would not be able to operate the system without them.

The Minister of State, the chief executive and chairman of An Bord Glas must be heartened and encouraged by what they have heard. Many Deputies are of the view that there is a need to increase its annual budget. I am sure the money would be spent wisely and well.

Mr. Perry

I wish to share my time with Deputy Joe Higgins.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Perry

I am delighted to have this opportunity to contribute to the debate. I compliment An Bord Glas on the extraordinary work it has done with limited resources and staff in the promotion of fruit and vegetables. It has presented a good image. In close co-operation with the Department of Agriculture and Food, An Bord Bia, Teagasc and An Bord Trachtála it might be able to secure increased funding.

There is a need for growers and retailers to work closely together to ensure their survival and success. The presence of the major British multiples in the Irish retail market — I was a supermarket proprietor prior to entering politics — has instilled fear in small retailers, particularly in the west. I understand that all of the vegetables on sale in Marks and Spencers in Dublin are imported. This is a worrying development.

Reference has been made to the number of farmers leaving the land. The time has come to find alternatives. Young farmers in particular should be encouraged to enter horticulture which has huge potential. As people become more health conscious presentation and display will assume major importance.

Retailers have a vested interest in the survival of growers who should be able to exploit our green image abroad. The Minister of State should consider the possibility of increasing the grants available for growers for the provision of infrastructure. They are competing in an extremely competitive market in which they are required to deliver quickly high quality produce at the best possible price. Large wholesalers are considering the possibility of putting a central distribution system in place. This offers a great opportunity to reduce costs and ensure quick delivery of stock. It should not be done at the expense of jobs.

The consumer expects the highest quality. Suppliers who arrive between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. in the Dublin market, which I have visited, expect to get the best possible deal. As we approach the new millennium the consumer will increasingly expect to be able to buy in the supermarket washed lettuce and cut tomatoes in containers. The days when a retailer sold one pound of tomatoes or carrots are over. The consumer on his return home at 6 p.m. wants to be able to produce a meal quickly. In this context the frozen food market is expanding rapidly. The best way of encouraging growers to provide packaged fruit and vegetables — added value products — is to ensure funds are made available for investment in the necessary packing facilities within growers' compounds. Buyers for the major multiples expect the same standards here as in the United Kingdom and the rest of the European Union. Should growers fail to match these standards they will lose business.

I give a cautious welcome to the arrival of Tesco in the Irish market. At £13 billion, its turnover is three times that of the entire Irish retail sector and 20 times larger than that of its nearest competitor. It is of major concern that it is in a position to import stock overnight from the United Kingdom, placing jobs at risk. It is critical that the Government extends the groceries order to cover horticultural produce to protect growers by banning the below cost selling of potatoes and carrots by the major multiples as an inducement to enter their stores.

Tesco must be encouraged to retain Quinnsworth's existing Irish supplier base. This is essential to ensure the continued development of the food industry which accounts for 40 per cent of all manufacturing turnover and 22 per cent of all manufacturing jobs. The major multiples whose bottom line is profit are devoid of sentiment. We must keep this thought uppermost in our minds when meeting their representatives.

Our nurseries, which are in need of promotion, have great potential. Total exports last year were valued at £2 million. I compliment An Bord Glas on doing an excellent job. The North Western Health Board successfully promotes fruit and vegetables as being important for health but much more funding is needed to promote the health aspects of fruit and vegetables.

Market research is very important. The report indicates that multiples and single shops accounted for 58 per cent of vegetable sales. The mushroom growers have had great success in exporting to the UK and must be complimented for it. However, support must also be given to the other vegetable growers.

The promotion of quality and hygiene is also important. I am delighted that the ISO 9000 standard is promoted actively. The hygiene quality mark is also important because consumers expect the highest possible standards at the best possible prices.

An Bord Glas has done an effective job in co-ordinating marketing but the Minister of State should increase funding for this area if possible. It is important to encourage those in the west to go into alternative forms of farming to ensure that the erosion of the industry is stopped.

Business development, in which I am involved, should be encouraged. There should be a tax break for job creation. There is very little help for the service industries. I have always believed that a job is a job, whether in an accountant's office, a supermarket or in farming. However, jobs in the service industry do not receive State aid at present. The service sector is the main growth sector in the economy and the biggest job creator. Another 50,000 jobs could be created in that sector and the Minister of State should seriously consider the matter.

How much time remains, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, as I wish to share it?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are eight minutes.

Mr. Perry

I am delighted to have had the opportunity to speak on this matter as it is close to my heart. I am a retailer and it is important to support the growers and retailers. I urge caution about the arrival of major multiples. They are welcome but they must do what they indicated they would do before their arrival.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): My stopwatch is more accurate than the crude instrument behind me. I make it that there are about nine and a half minutes remaining.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

According to the clock behind the Deputy, which I presume he cannot see from his position, Deputy Perry started at 4.11 p.m. and the Deputy must conclude at 4.31 p.m.

Mr. Davern

He has just wasted one minute.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): That is the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's time.

The report of An Bord Glas states that the development and marketing of horticultural produce is consistent with and supports efforts to enhance the environment and it maintains that, unlike the situation in many other sectors of economic activity, there is little direct conflict in horticulture between production and the environment. Regrettably, that is no longer the case.

I was surprised and disappointed that the Minister of State and the main spokespersons for the Labour Party and Fine Gael did not debate one of the conflicts with the environment which is emerging in the functional area encompassed by An Bord Glas. I refer to the mortal danger that the genetic engineering of vegetables, fruit and plants poses to the environment, the future of the industry and the health of the population. I listened to every contribution and only one Deputy, who was on the Government side, referred to the issue.

It is outrageous that the Environmental Protection Agency and the previous Government allowed tests by the multinational company Monsanto on sugar beet to take place in this country with no public discussion on the merits and demerits of genetic engineering.

One process of genetic engineering involves adding genes taken from, for example, microbes to a species of plant or fruit to make it resistant to weed killer or herbicide. Genetically engineered plants take on their own life and replicate as genetically engineered crops. Thus, we have an entirely new variety thrust into the ecosystem for the first time with potentially disastrous consequences.

Genetically engineered plants can cross-fertilise with related plants, weeds and wild plants. A 1994 study found that when ordinary natural potatoes were planted up to 1,100 metres from genetically engineered potatoes 72 per cent of the seeds from the natural crop contained the manipulated gene. At greater distances 35 per cent of the natural crops' seed had the manipulated gene. Scientists at the Scottish Crop Research Institute have found that pollen from genetically engineered rapeseed fertilised plants up to two and a half kilometres away.

The genetically engineered plants, such as those resistant to herbicide which were developed by Monsanto, will infect wild plants or weeds which will then emerge resistant to herbicide. What are the consequences on a macro scale for farming and horticulture? Stronger herbicides? What about the effect of these herbicides on our ecosystems, ground water, lakes, rivers and seas? Another aspect of this process in the Monsanto trials was to give antibiotic properties to genetically engineered plants and fruit. There is already a problem of resistance to antibiotics in the community and if this is carried into the food chain there may be horrific consequences of people becoming resistant to antibiotics.

It has taken millions of years for living organisms, fruits and vegetables and the ecosystem in which they developed to evolve. To attain a balance the ecosystem allows many species to coexist and to flourish. Natural evolution takes millions of years. It allows all organisms to emerge and to develop in balance with each other. Changes in one are slow and allow other organisms to change. However, genetic engineering may change in one or two years with unknown consequences which it took nature millennia to develop.

Multinational companies are taking to themselves the power of a god, with no reference to the people and they are creating a Frankenstein. They must be stopped. Driven by sheer greed, Monsanto develops herbicide resistant crops so that it can sell the herbicide it produces — Roundup — and the more seeds it sells, the more Roundup it sells and the more profits it makes. That is the only reason for its activity. We have allowed this company, which has a criminal record, into the country. It manufactured Agent Orange which defoliated millions of acres in Vietnam with horrendous consequences — 300,000 children suffered the most appalling deformities as a result.

On 26 April this year two of Fianna Fáil's most senior Ministers, Deputy Joe Walsh and Deputy Dempsey, issued a joint statement about genetic engineering. I could have written it myself. I hope the Minister and An Bord Glas will examine that statement. It said Fianna Fáil would not support what amounts to the largest nutritional experiment in human history with the consumer as a guinea pig. It called for a moratorium on that experiment.

I wish to ask the Minister of State a number of questions. Will the Government soon begin an informed debate, both inside and outside the Dáil, on the genetic engineering of our plants and food? Will the Government ban further field trials of genetically engineered plants? Will it ban the sale of genetically engineered foodstuffs or derivatives in shops and supermarkets? At a minimum, will the Government introduce compulsory labelling of genetically engineered foodstuffs? An Bord Glas is an important organisation which is charged with the safety, security and development by eco-friendly means of our horticultural produce. I ask the board to appoint research officers immediately who can study this matter, be part of the debate and inform society and the Government of the dangers involved.

The State and An Bord Glas should put as much emphasis as possible on the development of organic farming and horticulture. This country could set a headline by standing against the manipulation of science for greed and by developing this crucial industry on the basis of the needs of our people and the safeguarding of their health in the future.

Mr. Sargent

I wish the Minister of State well in his new office. I am keen to have continuing discussions with the Minister of State because there are many areas of interest in the report which I would like to discuss further.

A matter raised on the Order of Business this morning sets the context of this debate. It referred to the flight from the land and the Government's responsibility in that regard. Previous Fianna Fáil Governments took this responsibility seriously and sought to maintain as many families as possible on the land. I hope this Government will reintroduce that policy. There are startling figures on this subject for every country in western Europe and we are now locked into Europe's future and its monetary system. In 1958, there were 400,000 farmers in the UK. In 1989, there were 163,000 and that trend has accelerated. Ireland is facing a similar trend. That should be taken into account in planning the development of horticulture because horticulture is potentially a major employer.

I concur with the previous speaker's reference to the organic sector which has not, unfortunately, featured in our debate so far. A salient point is made by the statistics for the application of fertiliser throughout the world. In 1950, 14 million tonnes of fertiliser were applied to land. In 1989, that figure had increased to 143 million tonnes. The Minister of State might claim that the trend will level out and then decrease but I believe vested interests are driving policy in the horticulture industry. Reference was made to Monsanto but there are many other huge multinationals who have an interest in increasing our dependency on a monetary deal, from which they will benefit, to apply more chemicals to the land.

This country has overlooked an enormous opportunity to take a lead in organic farming. This is true in relation to genetically modified organisms also. How many man hours are spent in the Department on the organic sector? How many man hours per week are spent in Teagasc on this sector? Horticulture is the poor relation to agriculture but organic farming is a poor relation of the poor relation. The demand in other countries for organic produce should teach us that we have an opportunity to build on a sector which has made a promising start but is not being encouraged to grow.

The glasshouse sector in the Dublin North constituency is going through a terrible time. In recent years a number of traditional farming families have gone to the wall and they were not helped by exchange rates a couple of years ago which benefited Spanish farmers. Other EU Governments appear to be prepared to support the horticulture sector when necessary and I hope this Government learns from that. The last Government did not.

There is great demand from UK retailers for basic commodities such as carrots, onions and turnips from organic producers but they cannot get supplies. Although An Bord Glas markets horticultural produce it must market organic produce separately, not because of a difference in standards but because the two markets are different and will grow and develop in different ways. The products should not be lumped together and the consumer left to choose what is available. If the Minister visited the Dublin Food Co-operative on a Saturday morning he would see how organic produce is in huge demand and sells immediately. People will travel long distances to buy such food. Often the demand is related to children's dietary needs or to the consumer's personal preference. It is a product that must be marketed separately by An Bord Glas in order to develop its potential.

I welcome the effect of REPS over the past two years and the opportunity it offers farmers who wish to make the transition from conventional chemical-based farming to organic farming. It is still not recognised how much more difficult it is for people involved in horticulture to make that transition than it is for people involved in, for example, livestock production. In the horticulture sector there are standards which are more difficult to attain to qualify under REPS. That must be recognised if we are serious about developing horticulture, particularly organic horticulture. At this time the inspectors for the organic movement and its constituent organisations are being trained without assistance or funding, in stark contrast to conventional farming inspectors. Training of those inspectors and of farmers interested in pursuing organic methods should be funded if we are serious about developing this sector, which has such potential for growth.

The pharmaceutical industry has not always been a happy bedfellow with horticulture but the need for medical ingredients has led it to call for the growth of organic herbs in Ireland. This is also a poor relation in the horticultural sphere and as a country with a clean image we could do well if we develop this area, which is not capitalintensive but is labour-intensive. This brings me back to my original point about retaining people on the land.

I have dealings with Teagasc, as the Kinsealy centre is in my constituency. It is floundering because it needs a pathologist — it used to have three but it now has none, and the centre is winging it in terms of testing and meeting the needs of the horticultural sector. It is completely irresponsible of the Government to tolerate this.

The move towards genetically-modified organisms was mentioned by the last speaker and I concur with everything he said. Food irradiation will also be introduced here because of pressure from the United States Department of Agriculture, which has opened the floodgates. I appeal to the Government to observe its counterparts in Austria, Luxembourg and Italy who are lobbying not to allow genetically modified organisms, conscious not only of the scientific but of the marketing impact. The consumer is extremely unhappy about tampering with food and if the Government does not take this into account and introduce legislation requiring labelling for irradiated food ingredients and genetically modified organisms, we will face a similar crisis. It will be reminiscent of the BSE crisis in that we will be helpless because we were linked too closely with what is called the mainstream, even though as an island nation we have the opportunity to have a completely clean and thus profitable and employment friendly horticulture.

I raised on the Order of Business a matter which came to my attention through an article in The Big Issues magazine entitled “New Legislation for Herbal Remedies”. The Taoiseach said this was a matter for the Department of Agriculture and Food; if so, I wish to know more than was printed in the article. The journalist discovered that vitamins, minerals and herbs are now legal medicines under new legislation which prohibits retailers from providing their customers even with medical tips about herbal remedies. One will now need a licence for items like garlic, according to this article. This raises questions which the Minister should clarify. The journalist also states that the Department plans to prescribe alternative health supplements — in other words basic preventive health care which has been practised and been found to be a way to avoid high medical costs must be prescribed while paracetamol and its like can be sold at the sweet counter at supermarkets.

Mr. Higgins

(Dublin West): When can we have the benefit of the Minister of State's newly found wisdom in his reply to the debate?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is a matter to be decided between the Whips.