Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Jun 1999

Vol. 505 No. 7

Adjournment Debate Matters - Location of Victims' Remains: Statements.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. O'Donoghue)

I am grateful to the House for this opportunity to make a statement on what is an important and difficult issue.

First, our thoughts are with the relatives of the victims at what is an enormously difficult time for them. We earnestly pray that their hopes, which were built up after years of appalling suffering, are not dashed. Second, I wish to record my appreciation, that of the Government and, I am sure, all Members for the professional and sensitive way in which the gardaí are carrying out the difficult duties they have been called on to undertake in the search for the remains of the victims. The Commissioner and members of the force can be rightly proud of the manner in which they have undertaken this onerous task. It is only right too to acknowledge the role played by the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains and its staff in dealing with this matter.

The background to the search for the remains of the missing persons in question is as follows.

At its meeting on 29 March 1999, the Government approved the issuing of a statement concerning an initiative to locate the graves of missing people from Northern Ireland. That statement said that the Government, following indications from Sinn Féin that a genuine effort was being made to locate the graves of missing people, was prepared to facilitate the location of the remains by introducing legislation to the effect that evidence resulting from that process could not be used in the prosecution of offences. The British Government indicated that it would also introduce similar legislation. Very shortly afterwards the Provisional IRA issued a statement to the effect that it had succeeded in locating the remains of nine victims.

Detailed discussions took place with the UK authorities with a view to putting in place a framework for locating the remains of victims. This culminated in the signing of an agreement between the two Governments on 27 April. The main purpose of the Criminal Justice (Location of Victims' Remains) Act, 1999 was to provide for the independent international Commission, as established under the agreement between the two Governments, to facilitate the location of the remains of victims of paramilitary violence killed prior to 10 April 1998. The legislation provides that evidence resulting from the process of locating the remains of victims cannot be used on behalf of the prosecution in criminal cases. I acknowledge again, the co-operation of all sides of the House in enacting that legislation.

Subsequent to the enactment in this jurisdiction of the Criminal Justice (Location of Victims' Remains) Act, 1999 and equivalent legislation in the UK, the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains was established following an exchange of notes between the British and Irish Governments on 28 May 1999. The Governments appointed to the Commission, Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, the Victims Commissioner in the North and the former Tánaiste, Mr. John Wilson, who fulfils a similar role in relation to victims in this jurisdiction.

On 28 May 1999, the day on which the Commission was established, Mr. John Wilson, with the consent of Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, issued the following statement:

Intermediaries have contacted the Commission and indicated the location of certain graves. The Commission have given the knowledge of locations to the Garda Síochána. They will secure these sites and proceed with the exhumation. There will be a proper scientific presence. Relatives are being informed and will be treated with the utmost sensitivity. The remains will be transported to Dublin where suitable arrangements will be made for relatives.

Again on 28 May 1999, at approximately 7.30 a.m. the Garda Síochána took possession of a coffin at Old Faughart graveyard, stated to contain the remains of Mr. Éamonn Molloy who has been missing since 1975. In accordance with Section 11 of the legislation, an Order was made directing the coroner for Dublin County Borough to hold an inquest, and the remains were then conveyed to the city morgue, Store Street, Dublin.

I understand from the coroner that steps are being taken to verify the identity of the remains and once that process has been completed it will be possible to release the remains to the family for burial. I assure the House that no avoidable delay will occur.

On 29 and 30 May, Garda secured a further six locations which are stated to contain the remains of a further eight missing persons. The six locations are: Ballydonnel Brook, Ballynultagh, Blessington, County Wicklow; Kilmurray, Castleblayney, County Monaghan; Brogan, Carrickroe, Emyvale, County Monaghan; Templeton beach car park, Carlingford, County Louth; Oristown Bog, Kells, County Meath; and Coghalstown, Wilkinstown, Navan, County Meath.

The topography of the locations mentioned presents varying degrees of difficulty to the search teams involved. Details of locations are as follows.

Ballydonnel Brook, Ballynultagh, Blessington, County Wicklow is located five miles from Blessington in the Wicklow mountains. It is a very remote area of bogland covered with gorse, heather and ferns. Work has commenced at this area and a large area has been meticulously excavated down to the bedrock of the mountain without locating any remains. The terrain involved makes the task extremely difficult, painstaking and time consuming. The remains of Danny McIlhone, missing since 1978, are stated to be at this location.

Kilmurray, Castleblayney, County Monaghan is a bowl-shaped area of bogland which is extremely difficult to search due to the waterlogged nature of the area. Pumps are being used to drain the location and are pumping 20,000 gallons of water per hour. The meticulous excavation of the site is ongoing and will continue. The remains of Brian McKinney and John McClory, missing since 1978, are stated to be at this location.

Brogan, Carrickroe, Emyvale, County Monaghan is also an area of peat bog in a mountainous area. The site is being drained using pumps and the Garda search operation is ongoing with the assistance of engineers. The remains of Columba McVeigh, missing since 1975, are stated to be at this location.

Templeton beach car park, Carlingford, County Louth is adjacent to Templeton beach. An extensive area has been excavated without the remains indicated being located. Meticulous excavation work is continuing at the site. The remains of Jean McConville, missing since 1972, are stated to be at this location.

Oristown Bog, Kells, County Meath is a peat bog, a large area of which has been cut away for commercial purposes. Excavation of the site is ongoing. The remains of Brendan Megraw, missing since 1978, are stated to be at this location.

Coghalstown, Wilkinstown, Navan, County Meath is a wooded area with dense undergrowth and wild trees and scrub in a wet and boggy area. This location is being assessed with a view to establishing the most effective approach deploying search teams. The remains of Séamus Wright and Kevin McKee, missing since 1972, are stated to be at this location.

Work by gardaí is ongoing at each of the six locations. The terrain at all the locations is proving to be a particularly difficult aspect of the search operations. Where possible, the Garda search operations commenced at the point identified as the most likely where remains would be located. The search areas in these instances have since been extended. Gardaí have obtained the services of engineers where this is necessary and the technical expertise from the Garda technical bureau is on hand at each location. Specialised radar equipment has been used to assist in the location of the remains. All resources required to complete the operations succesfully are being used. To date, no remains have been located at any of the six locations.

I assure the House that the availability of resources is not an issue in these operations which are taking place in four counties. The Government is committed to doing everything possible to recover the remains of the missing persons and return them to their families. The Government has taken, and will continue to take every available step to ensure that the remains are located as quickly as possible. I know that in doing this the Government has the support of all sides of the House.

However, the level of success in locating the remains of the persons in question is dependent on the information which has been made available. While there is no reason to doubt that everyone participating in this process is acting in good faith, we are also aware of the distress and trauma being caused to the families and relatives of these persons arising from the prolonged searches. The Garda Síochána are maintaining close contact with families in all cases and keeping them informed.

The plight of the relatives of the victims is an especially harrowing one and there can be no doubt that the past few days have been particularly difficult. The relatives never gave up hope over the years that the remains would be recovered and given a proper burial and, even though progress has not been as great as we all would have wished, it would be wrong to lose hope now.

I am also conscious of the pain suffered by families of victims in respect of the location of whose remains no information has been furnished. I urge anybody who has information about secret burial places of other victims to make that information available to the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains. The pain and suffering endured by all of these families has gone on far too long. The least they deserve is for the remains of their loved ones to be returned to them for a proper burial.

I assure the House that the Garda Síochána will investigate any information given them by the Commission in an effort to bring this sorry affair to an end.

Mr. Currie

I agree with what the Minister said about the victims' relatives and the Garda Síochána. I hope the long purgatory of the victims' relatives will come to an end soon. That their hopes might be dashed is too awful to contemplate. I praise the Garda Síochána for the professional and sensitive way in which they are performing their duties in the gruesome task in which they are involved. The relatives of the disappeared to whom I have spoken would like to thank them for their sensitivity.

The behaviour of the provisional republican movement in recent days is typical of the barbarity with which it has treated the victims and their relatives over a quarter of a century. The disappeared were murdered by the IRA. In some instances they were tortured and their bodies buried in secret graves. Their relatives were lied to in the most horrible way and rumours spread to take away their good name.

The purgatory of the relatives has lasted for a quarter of a century but in some respects the agony of recent days has been the worst. They have had to relive their grief. Those of us who have lost near relatives thought at the time of their death that we would never recover so deep was our sense of grief but time heals. With the passage of time we come to terms with their death and do not remember them every waking moment. In this case there has been no focus for grief and no grave at which to say prayers. To admit that their relatives were dead appeared like betrayal to some. In recent days grief has returned in all its intensity but even in the midst of grief there has been hope that the IRA statement and the designation of the burial sites meant that their trauma was at an end. Apparently their hopes are being dashed. This is cruelty and barbarism at its worst. It ranks large in the annals of infamy.

The IRA demanded legislation in this House and at Westminster to protect it from the consequences of its murderous deeds as the price of indicating the burial places. We fulfilled our side of the bargain. The majority in this House, the House of Commons and the House of Lords had serious reservations about passing that legislation but we did it as it was the price we were prepared to pay in order that the bodies would be returned and the relatives would be able to give them a Christian burial.

The IRA has not fulfilled its side of the bargain. The information it has provided so far has proved too vague and imprecise to locate the bodies. The case in which I am most interested is that of Columba McVeigh who came from the village in which I lived before moving South – Donaghmore, County Tyrone. I have been pursuing the case for 25 years since the Hallowe'en evening he left a flat in this city to buy a packet of cigarettes and never returned. I count his mother, two brothers and a sister as personal friends. His father is deceased.

The area indicated extends to 3,000 square yards or three-quarters of an acre of bog. It is currently being drained. Why is the information so imprecise? A car park or houses have not been built on it. The only difference is the vegetation. Surely it is possible to be more precise as to where the body is buried.

In its statement yesterday the IRA cited a change of leadership as one of the reasons for the fiasco and why it had proved difficult to pinpoint the exact location of the bodies. The Minister knows as well as I do that there are individuals in leadership positions in Sinn Féin who were involved in the original decision to murder those now described as the disappeared, to hide their bodies and thus deprive them of a Christian burial, to lie to their relatives and to impugn their good name. They have a responsibility to identify the burial places accurately. If they do not know where they are buried, they know those who do. They should tell us exactly where the bodies are buried.

There is a chain of command in the IRA in these matters. Secret burials required a decision at the top of that organisation. The so-called execution of informers also requires a decision at the top. There is a person towards the top of the chain of command designated to take decisions in these matters. The person currently responsible is often seen on our television screens. He knows more about this than what we have been told.

The treatment of the disappeared contrasts with the IRA's attitude to its dead and the respect it demands from others for them. We know about the funerals, the graveside orations, commemorations and the great symbols of martyrdom. The National Graves Association looks after the graves. That is the way it honours, reveres and uses its dead. If the British Army, the RUC or loyalists were responsible for kidnapping, torturing and murdering republicans – even ordinary Catholics – and burying them in secret graves, what would be the attitude of the republican movement?

Remember the attitude towards bodies during the hunger strikes. We were told the bodies of the hunger strikers were temples of the Holy Ghost with which there could not be interference. That contrasts very starkly with the way they have treated the bodies of the "disappeared". It also contrasts very starkly with the way in which they booby trapped the bodies of their victims on occasions in order to blow up members of the security forces.

Gerry Adams had the effrontery to tell us that this was about human rights and justice. I find that stomach churning hypocrisy. Ed Moloney in the Sunday Tribune described the issue of the “disappeared” as the most shameful episode in the history of the IRA. He said far from being about the restoration of human rights, it is an issue the republican movement, Sinn Féin included, has exploited for selfish political reasons. I agree with that sentiment.

I am disappointed the Deputy for Cavan-Monaghan, Deputy Ó Caoláin, is not present, although I am not surprised. I have noted that on all occasions of this nature when serious questions are being asked of the republican movement, including Sinn Féin, he is never present. He comes into the House on occasions, pontificates to us and preaches about our responsibilities, particularly those of the British and Irish Governments, but he is never here when he might be asked serious questions and when he might contribute to our knowledge of events.

This is an issue for which the republican movement has no-one to blame but itself. They are wonderful people at placing the blame on other people's shoulders. They are particularly good at blaming the British, and Lord help us, the British have been responsible for many things over the years for which we can blame them. They are very good at blaming the loyalists and if it is possible to blame the Unionists for the loyalists, on to their shoulders the blame will go. They will blame this Government and would have blamed our Government given the opportunity. This time the blame is on themselves. They murdered these innocent people, hid their bodies and refused to disclose sufficient information. This is a challenge to them, not to the British, the loyalists or to the Irish or the British Governments. They have a responsibility to answer the questions being posed to them and to accept the full responsibility for the situation we are now in.

I will ask the Minister a number of questions, but will not be too specific in them. I do not wish to cause any embarrassment or to push things too far. There may be things about which the Minister is not in a position to tell us, and on this one occasion I will excuse him if he believes he should not be fully forthcoming to the House in these matters. A question many people are asking is, of the six sites which have been designated for the eight victims – there were two double graves – why has there not been success in any of them? One would have expected that there would have been some success in at least one. If the bodies are there, why has there not been some success so far? Why does the Minister believe the information provided has been so imprecise? It is almost as if they were reluctant, although we know they were reluctant and were forced to provide information.

I spoke to a known republican about this matter. He describes himself as a traditional republican – more Real IRA than Provisional IRA. He said they should not have given any information until the war was over and Ireland is united. That was his attitude to disclosure of this information. Does the Minister believe there is an element of that involved? Does it result from the spilt in the IRA, particularly in south Armagh where those who would know more about it than others happen to be disciplined republicans and are not, therefore, prepared to give the necessary information? Does it have anything to do with the fact they wish to hold this threat for future occasions because the way in which the bodies have been treated is considered to be a deterrent to others who wish to "inform"? Do they wish to avoid the torture of victims being exposed? What about the other seven victims, some of whom are from south Armagh? We should not accept that the IRA has responsibility for only nine victims. The IRA clearly has responsibility for others, but it has not been prepared to accept that. Perhaps the Minister will give us his views on those questions.

I expressed some scepticism on Second Stage of the Bill and said I would not believe it until I stood in Donaghmore graveyard and saw the body of Columba McVeigh lowered into the grave having been satisfied by DNA testing or whatever, that it really was his body. That scepticism, if anything, has increased since Second Stage. We are now in a position that we will probably have to shame the IRA and Sinn Féin into making proper disclosures and giving proper identification. If the speech I make contributes to that, it will be a good thing. All of us should shame them into so doing.

The deep anger and frustration I feel about this matter is felt more strongly and intensely by the relatives, and I know it is also shared by the Minister. I assure him that in any efforts he makes in this House, he will have our support, particularly in keeping the Garda on this job, as they wish to remain until the last lingering hope has ended, and in giving them the necessary material to do this job until we achieve success in locating the bodies.

Mr. Howlin

I thank the Taoiseach for agreeing to the request made this morning by the leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Quinn, that we should have a short debate this afternoon on the position regarding the search for the bodies of that group of victims of paramilitary violence known as the "disappeared". I am also grateful to the Minister for making himself available to make a statement to the House and respond to the debate at short notice.

Given the dreadful ordeal which the families of the disappeared have had to face yet again this week, it would have been unforgivable for the Dáil to have adjourned for more than one week without having the opportunity to hear a report from the Minister on the progress of the search to date and without affording us the opportunity to express our sympathy and solidarity with the families concerned and for us to jointly, as the Parliament of the Irish people, to exert whatever pressure we can on anyone who has knowledge of the location of these bodies and to press them to pass it on to the authorities without another moment's delay.

I found the Minister's speech depressing and upsetting, as I suppose everybody else did, including the Minister. It was depressing and upsetting to listen to the details of the lonely, isolated sites where men and women were placed having been murdered and abandoned. In more than 25 years of violence in Northern Ireland the paramilitary organisations have been responsible for appalling acts, mass murder, sectarian killings, the murder of children and mutilations. However, there can be few acts which can compare with the sheer cruelty and callousness of the IRA in regard to the disappeared. It is in no way to diminish the suffering of those who have endured the loss of a loved one killed or maimed in Northern Ireland to say that the relatives of those who were murdered and whose bodies have never been found have had to carry a particularly unspeakable burden of ongoing grief and pain, something Deputy Currie spoke about very succinctly.

All of us have suffered family bereavements and there is a consolation in going through the process of bereavement and grief, burial, prayer, remembrance and the periodic visitation to the place of rest. Those who know anything about death and dying must be aware that grieving and burial are essential parts of the process of trying to cope with loss. Other people who have lost family members, even in the most shocking circumstances, have been able to at least do that. The families of the disappeared have been denied even that small modicum of comfort and have been put through an ongoing ordeal which in some cases has continued for almost 30 years.

Among those kidnapped, spirited away from their families, in some cases certainly tortured, murdered and buried in secret were teenage boys, middle-aged men and a Protestant mother of ten. The only thing they had in common was to offend in some way against the vicious regime that the IRA inflicted upon Nationalist communities in Northern Ireland for most of the 1970s and 1980s. Over the past 30 years members of the republican movement were quick and eager to complain against breaches of human rights by the security forces, in many cases justifiably so, but what respect was shown for the human or civil rights of those taken from their homes, brought before some kangaroo court or other, dealt with without the benefit of anyone to defend them and executed without the benefit of right of appeal or comfort of a Christian burial?

With the declaration of the ceasefires by the paramilitary organisations, the evolution of the peace process and the progress made on a range of issues, rightly helped by all political parties in the State, we developed legislative measures, advanced the release of paramilitary prisoners, reopened Border roads and generally started the demilitarisation process. In that context it was understandable, indeed inevitable, that the plight of the disappeared would again come to the fore among our considerations as an issue we have to address before we put an end to the appalling suffering of the peoples of this island. We may all have been guilty from time to time of allowing the disappeared to slip from our attention, but their families never forgot them, gave up on them or ceased to have a yearning to give their loved ones the benefit of a decent burial.

It was largely as a result of the pressure maintained by the families that the republican movement, having ignored them for so long and in many cases having lied to them for more than 20 years, was at last forced to act. The announcement by the IRA that it was willing to identify the location of the remains of the disappeared was welcome, although it was neither total nor unconditional. Not all those kidnapped and murdered by the IRA were included in the list – a number of victims from south Armagh were particularly noticeable by their absence. Of course, the price society has had to pay to bring about the return of these remains was to give a guarantee that any forensic evidence recovered in the search would not be used to bring anyone to account for these brutal murders. We debated that price in the House. Reservations were expressed and I think it was with a heavy heart that we agreed to pay that price to bring about an end to the sufferings of the families concerned.

We all know now that the suffering of the families has not yet ended. Either through callousness or carelessness, the IRA has subjected the families to new levels of cruelty. Last Saturday the family of Jean McConville, who was snatched from her ten fatherless children and murdered in 1972 simply because she showed some sympathy and consideration for a British soldier who had been shot on her doorstep, went to Templeton beach in County Louth expecting at last to wit ness the recovery of their mother's body. Five days later they are still waiting, with the recovery of their mother's remains apparently no nearer. The families of other victims have watched searches in counties Wicklow, Monaghan and Meath with a similar sense of disbelief and a growing sense of anger and betrayal. I cannot believe that there are not people who know the precise location of the remains of at least some of these unfortunate victims. Even if the IRA as an organisation refuses to do anything more, there may be people no longer involved in the republican movement who deeply regret the acts of barbarism in which they may have been involved decades ago who have some information which would help the families locate these bodies. I appeal to those people to come forward, through intermediaries or anonymously if necessary, to help bring an end to the agony of these families.

I know the Garda have put in great efforts over the past few days in trying to find the bodies, and I join with other speakers in thanking and supporting them in their difficult task. However, they are clearly acting on the basis of incomplete information and operating in extraordinarily difficult terrain. Does the Minister consider that the number of personnel involved in the search is sufficient? Has consideration been given to increasing the number of personnel, for example, through involving the Army? Is the Minister satisfied that the technical equipment available to the Garda is totally adequate? Has he considered the provision of assistance to the Garda from police forces abroad who may have particular relevant experience of similar searches in other countries? I accept and welcome the Minister's comments regarding resources. However, can the Minister again reassure the House that everything that can be done will be done and that neither time nor cost will be a consideration in bringing an end to the pain and suffering of these most unfortunate families? What efforts have been made through the Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains to secure more accurate information in recent days? Have the political representatives of the Republican movement been called in and warned of the consequences of inflicting further suffering on these families? I join in the remarks of regret that the elected representative of the Republican movement in this House is not here to participate in this debate.

Mr. Currie

Particularly as he represents the areas where these bodies are supposed to be.

Mr. Howlin

That is a fair point.

I know that all parties in the House will want to express their total solidarity with the families of the disappeared in the awful ordeal which they have had to endure for so long and which has, in many respects, intensified in the past five days. The courage, determination and, above all, dig nity with which they have conducted themselves is in stark contrast to the cowardly, cynical and dishonest approach of the IRA.

Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. O'Donoghue)

I thank Deputies Currie and Howlin for their contributions to this important debate. While there is no doubt that everybody in this House wishes to see all of the remains recovered, equally there is no doubt that the terrain being searched is extremely difficult.

Deputy Currie referred to the late Columba McVeigh. I suppose his comments could be said to illustrate most startlingly the pain being suffered by all the families concerned in this horrific affair.

We all hope that further and more precise information would be made available to the commission to enable it to get on with its work successfully. That said, at two of the sites, Carlingford and Blessington, there was some precision in relation to the location of the graves but, unfortunately, nothing has been found at the precise points to date.

I am still satisfied about the good faith of people involved in this particular process but I renew the appeal that if there is information available to anybody which would be of further assistance, then it should be made available at this point in time.

I had the opportunity to meet with representatives of the families and those meetings were harrowing and heart-rending. One could not but have the deepest sympathy for the families involved. There was a palpable sense of hope among the families who were led to believe that their loved ones would be located in the not too distant future. There was, equally, a great sense of hopelessness and a deep sense of pain among those whose loved ones were not identified at that point. The human suffering, trauma and stress which has been caused in this dreadful matter cannot be gauged.

It is of considerable importance that we continue with the search. It is fair to say that if bodies were buried, for example, in remote locations in the dead of night it would present some difficulty to the identification of the precise locations. Nonetheless, it is true that the suffering which human beings are going through at present is horrendous. If, as I say, there are people who can be of assistance by the furnishing further information, then it is something which should be done immediately. In addition, if there are people who have information on the whereabouts of remains which have not yet been identified, I ask them, as a matter of humanity, to furnish the information to the commission. The suffering which the families have been and are enduring is appalling and it clearly has been accentuated by recent events.

With regard to whether or not, in Deputy Currie's words, there is a split, whether it is being used as a threat for the future or whether people are trying to hide the fact that their victims were tortured, my view is that those taking part in the process are acting in good faith. I have no reason whatsoever to believe otherwise at present.

Deputy Howlin asked whether the numbers and resources involved are sufficient and whether outside help should be sought. The Garda has engaged the resources and manpower required for the exercise. It has also specified the equipment which it requires. In so far as the Garda requires anything, I can assure Deputy Howlin that the Government is co-operating in providing everything that is being sought. It is our profound wish that the operation would be a success in all respects.

Deputy Howlin asked whether the Taoiseach or the Government had met Sinn Féin on the matter. The Taoiseach has, as the Deputy may be taware, been in contact with the President of Sinn Féin, Mr. Adams, and they both expressed the hope that the victims would be located.

It is important to record that what we have seen in the past few days must remind us of the dark years and will surely serve to concentrate the minds of those tasked with securing an acceptable conclusion in the impasse over decommissioning, which is the remaining obstacle to achieving new institutions and a new beginning. If the images on our television screens over the past few days can help to reinforce the resolve of those determined to pursue politics in a peaceful and democratic way, it may well prove to be the case that these deaths may not have been in vain.

I have said that those members of families who have lost loved ones have not lost hope over the years of the possibility of their remains being located. It is important at this time that we continue to hope that the ongoing searches will be successful. I stress that while searches have commenced at all locations, searches have not been completed at any location. I assure both Deputies and the House that these searches will continue down to the last lingering hope. We are determined to try to find these bodies so that they may have a humane and Christian burial and also so that those who were horrifically bereaved will have a place to grieve and will be able to be satisfied in their own minds that their loved ones have at last been located. It can be said that the return of victims' remains represents some recognition of the hurt and suffering caused to the victims, their families and society as a whole although it cannot be sufficient.

On whether I believe the IRA is playing games or is engaged in some form of subterfuge on this matter, I have no reason to doubt the good faith of everyone involved in seeking an end to this terrible business. If people have additional information in this regard, I urge them to come forward with it as a matter of humanity.