(Mayo): I wish to share time with Deputy Belton.
Adjournment Debate. - Garda Procedures.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
(Mayo): The Garda inquiry into the shooting dead of John Carthy at Abbeylara, County Longford, on Holy Thursday lacks credibility. It is not credible for an inquiry into the conduct of the Garda to be conducted by the Garda. The conduct of an inquiry by the chief superintendent into a Garda operation commanded by an assistant commissioner is simply not credible. The credibility of the inquiry has been well and truly undermined by the deliberate and systematic leaking of details of the inquiry to The Star four weeks ago, the Sunday Independent two weeks ago and RTE this morning. There is only one credible course of action for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to adopt. He must immediately establish a public sworn inquiry to be conducted by a High Court or former judge. The report of the Garda Síochána to the Garda Commissioner and the report of the FBI should be part of that inquiry. The role of the inquiry must also be to establish who was responsible for the scandalous and systematic leaks and those found guilty, if within the Garda Síochána or public service, should be fired forthwith.
The inquiry must establish the reason the request by John Carthy to speak with his solicitor, Mr. Michael Finucane, was neither acceded to nor conveyed to Mr. Finucane. John Carthy had indicated that he would only come out if he was able to contact Mr. Finucane. He needed a solicitor because of an alleged beating in Granard Garda station in September 1998. Had Mr. Finucane been allowed access Mr. Carthy could well be alive today.
Had Marie Carthy's request to speak with her brother been acceded to, for example, Mr. Carthy may well be alive today. She did not want to enter the house. She wanted to speak to him on the megaphone.
The inquiry must establish why John Carthy's request for cigarettes was not agreed to. To deny a highly emotionally disturbed heavy smoker a packet of cigarettes in a siege is unpardonable. To maintain Garda safety was a factor is not credible. Gardaí had no problem climbing on to the roof of the house to sever the television cable. Had Mr. Carthy been given the cigarettes he could well be alive today.
The purpose of a submachine gun or an automatic action shotgun is to eliminate the target. The inquiry must establish the reason automatic action shotguns and submachine guns rather than sniper rifles were used. Had the latter been used John Carthy could well be alive today.
The inquiry must establish the reason stun guns or rubber bullets were not available to the Garda Síochána for this type of relatively low key siege. Had they been available John Carthy could well be alive today.
The inquiry must establish the reason such a so-called highly trained elite group of marksmen were not able to maim or incapacitate the deceased instead of killing him. It must also establish why the deceased was shot twice in the back. The leaked reports all contend that on emerging from the house John Carthy threatened uniformed gardaí with his shotgun. One must ask and establish why uniformed unarmed gardaí were even in the vicinity of, let alone in close proximity to Mr. Carthy when he exited from the house. The inquiry must establish if the officer who was supposed to be in charge was actually present when the deceased emerged from the house, when gardaí opened fire or who exactly gave the order to open fire.
The public has arrived at its own conclusion, that is, that John Carthy need not have died. He was totally outnumbered, not holding any hostages, had deep emotional problems, was not an aggressive individual and did not have a previous conviction. The perception is that the whole affair was very badly managed. I share that perception. The already damaged reputation of the Garda Síochána in this instance has been further damaged by the calculated attempt to condition public opinion in advance of the official report coming into the public domain.
Given that the Garda inquiry has now been completed and the report on the FBI inquiry will be available to the Garda Commissioner within the next few days I hope the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will establish a public inquiry into this terrible tragedy, which is a source of much public concern. Many people want to be satisfied that the facts will be put into the public domain. The reports of the Garda Síochána and the FBI should be part of the inquiry which I hope the Minister will establish.
I am grateful for this opportunity to respond to the issues raised by Deputies Higgins and Belton concerning the death of Mr. John Carthy in Abbeylara, County Longford. I have made clear from the outset my view that the tragic death of Mr. Carthy resulting from the use of lethal force by the Garda Síochána raises serious questions which must be answered and serious issues which must be addressed. The use of firearms by what is still essentially an unarmed force is an exceptional occurrence and is strictly governed by Garda regulations. Their use by gardaí is always a serious matter and when, as in this case, it results in a fatality it is a matter which demands urgent and thorough investigation. The Garda authorities fully share this view.
The Garda Commissioner appointed a chief superintendent to conduct a thorough investigation into the death of Mr. Carthy. The investigation of the chief superintendent has just been completed and I expect to receive the report from the Garda Commissioner tomorrow. In accordance with standard practice the investigation file will be submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions and, in this instance, will be submitted also to the coroner in Longford. I am advised by the Garda Commissioner that the separate report being prepared by FBI officers into the operational tactics employed in this case will be with the Garda Commissioner within the next week.
It is deplorable that some details of the investigation would appear to have been leaked to the media. The leaking of this material is a very serious matter. It is damaging to public confidence in the process of investigating the death of Mr. Carthy and must be a source of considerable distress to the family and friends of Mr. Carthy. The Garda Commissioner shares my concern and has begun an investigation into the leak.
While I deplore the premature and unauthorised release of details of the material in question, I have previously made clear my commitment to making public the findings of the investigation at the earliest opportunity. It is important that the process of investigating the death of Mr. Carthy should be open and subject to public scrutiny, to the greatest extent possible. In this context, making public the findings of the investigation would enhance public confidence in the investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death of Mr. Carthy.
There have been calls – repeated tonight – for a public inquiry into what happened in Abbeylara but I took the view that it would be premature in the absence of more complete knowledge of all the circumstances to conclude that there were grounds for such an inquiry. I have always believed that we should first examine the facts established by the Garda investigation before we form conclusions as to further action.
Deputies on all sides will agree that the first step, given that we are dealing with a situation where a man was shot dead, is to allow the Director of Public Prosecutions the time he needs to examine the full investigation file in accordance with normal practice. It would be wrong to open the details of this to public debate before the Director of Public Prosecutions has had an opportunity of examining the papers.
As soon as I receive the report I will consider its findings with an open mind as to what further action may be needed. In doing so I will be mindful of the statutory obligations of the Director of Public Prosecutions and also of the coroner. I will contact the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights to arrange for the consideration by the committee of the findings at the appropriate time.
The investigation into Mr. Carthy's death has now been completed and the investigation file will be forwarded to the Director of Public Prosecutions. I repeat my commitment to make public the findings of the investigation as soon as it is possible and proper to do so. I will be in contact with the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights in that respect.
I take this opportunity to express once again my deepest sympathy to the family of Mr. Carthy, to assure them that the findings of the investigation into the circumstances surrounding his death and the FBI report, which is still awaited, will be considered openly and with scrupulous care, and to assure them that any lessons that can be learned from this tragic event will be learned. I acknowledge the restraint, patience and understanding which local Deputies Reynolds and Belton have shown throughout.
Deputy Jim Higgins has today been transferred to a new portfolio within the Fine Gael front bench. I thank him for his contribution to the Justice, Equality and Women's Rights area over the past three years. He was obliged to make detailed submissions in relation to no less than 33 Bills emanating from my Department, which have now been enacted. I thank him and congratulate him on that and wish him well in his new portfolio.
(Mayo): I thank the Minister.