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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Dec 2000

Vol. 528 No. 2

Other Questions. - Social Welfare Benefits.

Thomas P. Broughan

Question:

30 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the numbers of carers who will receive the carer's allowance and carer's benefit in 2001. [29718/00]

Emmet Stagg

Question:

56 Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs his plans to extend the duration of carer's benefit. [29696/00]

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

60 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs his views on whether social welfare recipients are normally among the poorer section of society; the way in which he can justify excluding them automatically from carer's allowance; and the number of such social welfare recipients who are carers who will be excluded under the recently announced new means test guidelines. [29807/00]

Jan O'Sullivan

Question:

72 Ms O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs if he has considered producing a White Paper on caring and carers. [29708/00]

Bernard J. Durkan

Question:

178 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the extent by which he will extend the number of carers to whom payments are made; if his attention has been drawn to the growing need to provide increased support, in view of the age profile of the population and changing work patterns; his views on the estimate by the Carers Association of the total number of persons involved in caring; his further views on large numbers who provide care facilities without any assistance at present; if he will establish a programme to address this; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29951/00]

Frances Fitzgerald

Question:

180 Ms Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the percentage of the 5,000 carers, who will now qualify for a carer's allowance under the budget proposals, who will receive only a partial allowance; the number of recipients of the allowance who will move from a partial allowance to the full rate as a result of the budget; the percentage of carers in receipt of the allowance who are in receipt of a partial payment; the minimum amount paid to carers in 2000 in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30032/00]

Frances Fitzgerald

Question:

182 Ms Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the number in receipt of the carer's allowance; the number of carers who receive no compensation under the scheme based on those refused since the scheme was introduced; his views on the estimate of the Carers Association that there are 120,000 carers in the State; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30034/00]

Frances Fitzgerald

Question:

183 Ms Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs if he will introduce a cost of care payment for carers. [30035/00]

Deirdre Clune

Question:

185 Ms Clune asked the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs the provision he will make for widows, particularly young widows under 60 years, in a budgetary context. [30041/00]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 30, 56, 60, 72, 178, 180, 182, 183 and 185 together.

The carer's allowance is a means tested payment for carers on low income who look after people in need of full-time care and attention.

The review of the carer's allowance, which was published in October 1998, noted that it is difficult to estimate the number of full-time carers in the country. While care groups have stated this figure to be around 120,000 carers, they have provided no supporting basis for this figure. The high number may be due to their definition of carer, whereby a person visiting or assisting an older person may consider himself or herself to be a carer.

It must be borne in mind that the purpose of the carer's allowance is to support carers providing full-time care and attention for persons who are medically assessed as having such a serious disability that they require care for at least 12 months. Based on the research carried out in the review, the number of full-time carers is estimated to be 50,000 people, covering carers of older people and adults and children with disabilities.

At the end of November 2000, there were 16,405 carers in receipt of carer's allowance – of this number, 13,543, or 83%, were in receipt of the allowance at the maximum rate and 2,862, or 17%, were in receipt of the allowance at a reduced rate. A total of 13,011 claims have been refused in the ten years that this scheme has been in operation.

These figures show that 33% of full-time carers are in receipt of carer's allowance which is an increase of 78% in the number of carers in receipt of the allowance since this Government took office. This large increase is reflected in the expenditure on carer's allowance, which was £36.5 million in 1997 and is projected to be £108.4 million next year, representing an increase of almost 200%.

The carer's benefit scheme was introduced on 26 October this year. This new scheme is specifically intended to support people who must leave the workforce temporarily to care for someone who is in need of full-time care and attention. The scheme involves two central elements. The first is a weekly income support payment to be operated and paid by my Department. This will be based on PRSI contributions paid by the carer. The second is the protection of the carer's employment rights for the duration of the caring period, which is a key feature of the scheme. My colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with special responsibility for labour affairs, Deputy Tom Kitt, is currently drawing up carer's leave legislation to protect the employment rights of the carer. It is planned to publish this Bill very shortly.

The maximum duration of carer's benefit is set at 15 months, as it is considered that employers would experience difficulties in preserving an employee's rights for a longer period. This time period of 15 months will facilitate carers who have to leave the workforce temporarily to care full time.

It is estimated that eventually there could be in the region of 6,800 people on carer's benefit, but it must be recognised that it will take some years before this scheme reaches maturity. In the meantime, I expect that the scheme will have in the region of 500 to 1,000 recipients in the first number of years.

In the recent budget, in addition to the substantial rate increases of £8 for carers aged under 66 and £10 for carers aged over 66, I also announced a number of other measures to support carers. In particular, I made provision for a substantial increase from April 2001 in the income disregards in the carer's allowance means test from £75 to £125 for a single person and from £150 to £250 for a couple. This will enable more than 5,000 new carers to qualify for carer's allowance and almost 3,000 existing carers to receive an increased payment. It is not possible at this time to determine the rate of carer's allowance that each of these new carers will receive. However, the effect of this increase will ensure that a couple with two children, earning a joint income in the region of £15,100, will qualify for the maximum rate of carer's allowance, while a couple in receipt of £25,100 will qualify for the minimum carer's allowance, plus the free schemes and respite care grant.

The means test applied to the carer's allowance is one of the more flexible tests in terms of the assessment of household incomes and the measures that I have introduced further enhance the qualification criteria for this scheme.

On a point of order, will there be time for questions?

The Minister is entitled to six minutes as these are oral questions. He still has a minute remaining.

He seems to have been speaking for ten minutes.

It only sounds like it.

It is all a good story. The Deputy is trying to curtail me.

In view of the many supports required by carers, particularly in the community care and respite care areas, I do not consider that abolition of the means test, at a cost in the region of £180 million, to be the best way to support carers or the best use of resources. That was also the case in the review of the carer's allowance.

The income disregards I have introduced already exceed the income limits for the minimum wage rate for joint income households and ensure that carers receive a maximum allowance. As I announced in my budget speech, I envisage moving towards what I see as the optimum situation, whereby all carers, whose joint family income is at average industrial earnings, will qualify for carer's allowance at the maximum rate.

The primary objective of the social welfare system is to provide income support and, as a general rule, only one social welfare payment is payable to an individual.

Additional informationThe review of the carer's allowance examined the question of paying the carer's allowance in conjunction with another social welfare payment and concluded that, in view of the fact that the allowance is an income support payment and not a payment for caring, limited resources should not be used to make two income support payments to any one individual. Of course, a person qualifying for two social welfare payments will always receive the higher payment to which he or she is entitled.

One of the many measures I introduced in 1999 was a new annual respite care grant payable to all carers in receipt of carer's allowance and to carers who are caring for recipients of a constant attendance or prescribed relative's allowance to use in whatever way they choose. There has been very positive feedback on this payment and with this in mind, I also made provision for an increase in the amount of the respite care grant from £300 to £400. Respite care is one of the most important services required by carers. Regular planned breaks and emergency cover can assist a carer and reduce the stresses on them. In addition, carers who are caring for more than one care recipient will be entitled to a double respite care grant of £800. These increases will become effective in June 2001, when the grant is next due, at a full year cost of more than £3 million.

Other supports that I have introduced in my last three budgets for carers in receipt of the carer's allowance or carers who are caring for recipients of a constant attendance or prescribed relative's allowance include eligibility for the free schemes, the "full-time care and attention" rule has been relaxed to allow carers in receipt of carer's allowance to take up paid employment for up to ten hours per week, the residency condition has been relaxed to allow for each non-resident care situation to be assessed on a case-by-case basis, carers are no longer required to satisfy the "13 paid contribution" rule when claiming disability benefit, carers now qualify for credited PRSI contributions, carers who have ceased their caring responsibilities are now eligible for the back to education allowance and back to work allowance and the introduction of the carer's benefit scheme.

The review of the carer's allowance examined the issue of a cost of care allowance and considered it to be within the remit of the Department of Health and Children, as is the question of producing a White Paper on caring and carers. The estimated cost of introducing a monthly universal cost of care allowance of, for example, £100 would be in the region of £60 million based on the current number of carers.

In the review of An Action Programme for the Millennium, the Government pledged to put in place a co-ordinated approach to address the needs of carers. One of the key priorities we set was to develop a partnership model to facilitate the development, by the State in conjunction with the private sector, of an improved system for meeting long-term care costs.

To this end, I recently initiated a consultancy study on the future financing of long-term care. The study will examine the strategic issues involved and will involve an assessment of alternative financing and funding approaches and their feasibility in the Irish context.

The study, which also involves the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Finance, will encompass the financing of personal long-term care needs both in the community and in institutional care and the potential of the private sector or a combined public-private sector approach to develop new initiatives in this area. I look forward to the completion of this study by the middle of next year.

The many measures I have introduced for carers clearly indicate my personal commitment and that of the Government to carers and are a concrete expression of our appreciation for their valuable role in our society. In addition, my colleagues the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister for Environment and Local Government have also brought forward proposals in the recent budget to assist carers.

(Carlow-Kilkenny): A marathon runner must write these answers.

It is because I have made so many changes.

Not before time.

Please allow Deputy Broughan to ask his supplementary question.

I often wonder if, when the Minister, Deputy Ahern, is finished his political career, he will consider a career as an illusionist –"Dermot the great illusionist".

Does the Deputy have a question?

Carer's benefit was announced a year ago. However, until recent weeks, only 11 people had qualified for this benefit.

Does the Deputy have a question?

Is one of the main reasons for that that the Minister did not bother all year to bring in the carer's leave Bill? He and the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, let a whole year pass without introducing a carer's leave Bill. Second, the Minister allocated less than £50,000 for carer's benefit this year. Third, he allowed people partake of carer's benefit for only 15 months, knowing that many senior people need long-term care. The Labour Party has proposed that should last for at least—

The Deputy's minute is concluded.

—three years. Will the Minister consider making the limit three years in the social welfare Bill?

The Deputy obviously did not read my budget speech last year, let alone this budget.

I know it off by heart.

Which budget speech? There were three last year.

It was indicated in that budget that the carer's benefit, a brand new scheme brought in by this Government, would not come in until October of this year.

It has not been published yet.

No, the benefit would not be brought in.

Please, Deputy Broughan, there are other Deputies anxious to ask questions.

That is the reason the figures the Deputy gave, which are already out of date, are so low. It is only a new scheme starting off.

The carer's leave Bill was discussed at Cabinet this morning and will be published in the very near future. That Bill is required. However, irrespective of the Bill, the concern is to protect the employment rights of people. The carer's benefit is part of that.

(Carlow-Kilkenny): The Minister has outlined the importance of expanding the qualifications. Does he not accept that giving an £8 increase to a carer to keep a person out of hospital is absurd because the carer is providing a nursing care that would cost a couple of hundred pounds in hospital? The increase is totally unacceptable to those involved in caring.

All Ministers would like to give more than an increase of £8, but it must be considered in the context of the improvements I have introduced. Any objective examination will confirm the dramatic changes I have made to the carer's allowance since becoming Minister. Virtually all the recommendations of the carer's allowance review have been implemented, bar one.

(Carlow-Kilkenny): What about the money? The Minister is rambling.

The Minister, without interruption.

We are moving to implement the outstanding recommendation. The carer's benefit was introduced by me as Minister because I regard it as a good new non-means tested scheme. It will allow people to take time off work as of right.

(Carlow-Kilkenny): I did not ask the Minister about that. What about the £8 per week increase? The Minister never answers the question put to him.

I welcome the improvements to the carer's allowance. For two years I have asked why the plight of a widow who becomes a carer has again been ignored in the budget, despite my ongoing campaign? Will the Minister indicate the number of carers who have become widows in any one year? Does he consider it fair that a carer who becomes a widow loses the car er's allowance when she qualifies for the widow's pension despite the fact that she may continue to be a full time carer for a doubly incontinent bedridden person in her own home? Does he not consider that a person in that situation would be entitled to the carer's allowance as she continues to be a carer on a full time basis?

I have answered the Deputy before on this question. The review looked at the issue of two social welfare payments and recommended that the principle of paying one social payment should not be broken to ensure the resources at our disposal go to those most in need. The continual care payment is the answer to those who lose out in the context outlined by the Deputy. It was discussed before he entered the Chamber. It cannot be put in place until the needs assessment scheme is established at health board level to determine those who deserve or need the payment. The issue is currently being discussed by me and the Minister for Health and Children.

Will the Minister indicate the number of carers affected in any year? I doubt if it is more than five.

I call Deputy Crawford.

This issue is very important. Only a small number are involved. The widow or widower usually ends up looking after the deceased's parents or loved ones. It is a disgrace that somebody should be left in that situation. Will the Minister not take political responsibility for addressing this issue? We like to blame committees for decisions of this kind but will the Minister, as a political leader, ensure that the widow or widower who becomes a carer is justly rewarded?

I welcome the changes in the means test for families involved. They are the first in three and a half years. Will the Minister relax the criteria regarding the residence of a carer? It is very important. Persons caring for loved ones are entitled to that.

Does the Minister agree it is time to put into law a range of minimum rights to which carers should be entitled?

The rights disregards are very welcome. Why did the Minister not decide on £300 per couple? How many carers would have been included if he had accepted the average industrial wage as a benchmark?

I have indicated that we should set a target where the average industrial wage would be the benchmark where a couple with a joint income equal to the average industrial wage would qualify for the maximum of the carer's allowance. We hope to do that next year.

The issue of close proximity was included in the regulations I introduced to try to take account of situations where people were living beside each other. Up to then the criteria were very rigid. We have removed the issue of close proximity. Each case is determined on its merits. The test is whether or not a person is giving full time care and attention, irrespective of the business. They must live relatively closely to enable full time care and attention to be provided.

On the question of minimum rights for carers, I am responsible for the carer's allowance, not the carer's benefit. Very significant changes have been made over the last three and a half years. In this year's budget a co-ordinated approach was taken by the Ministers for Health and Children, Environment and Local Government and me. Each Minister introduced changes for carers. I introduced changes to the carer's allowance and the care grant. The other Ministers dealt with the disabled person's grant. A number of other initiatives were taken. Tax changes were made by the Minister for Finance. For each of the past few years changes have been made by those Departments.

We now move to Private Notice Questions to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the temporary release of persons convicted of the killing of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe.

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