Ruairí Quinn
Question:5 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the functions or responsibilities his Department had in 2000 which have been transferred to other Departments; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1765/01]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Departmental Functions and Responsibilities.
Responsibility for the Sports Campus Ireland project has been transferred to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. An allocation of £10 million was included in my Department's Estimate for 2000 to facilitate the start-up of the project. Now that the project is off the ground, responsibility for taking it forward has been given to the responsible line Department.
Does the Taoiseach accept that he initiated this project? Does he further accept that he is identified with it in the public mind and also in the mind of bodies such as the FAI whose deputation wishes to meet the Taoiseach and not the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid? In a project of such national importance, does the Taoiseach not accept that he should retain responsibility for something he initiated?
Why, on 30 and 31 January, did the Taoiseach seek to have questions on this subject addressed to him on the Order Paper transferred to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation? Why is the Taoiseach abandoning this child? Why will he not take responsibility for his progeny?
The dirty ball has been passed over.
If my memory is correct we debated this issue in the House a fortnight ago but I do not know if the debate was based on the questions to which the Deputy referred or other questions. Over the years the Department of the Taoiseach has been involved in feasibility studies and the early examination of the setting up of numerous projects, following which the projects move on. Deputy Quinn will be familiar with the Department's work on the IFSC. The same was the case with Temple Bar and several other projects and programmes. This does not mean the Taoiseach of the day loses interest in this or many other projects.
Under the national plan we are spending £41 billion and I deal with the NRA and other projects. However, it would be impossible for me to follow day-to-day progress. On this and other projects, I do my utmost to meet as many groups as possible. In the case of Sports Campus Ireland, I met all the major national bodies and many of the smaller bodies. I met the schoolboy leagues, the AUL, the United Churches league and several other bodies and I will continue to do so. I also met the National Community Games. However, it is unrealistic to expect the Taoiseach to be involved on a day-to-day basis with all the projects which require hands on management, boards, chief executives and many staff.
I was involved at the initial stages of Sports Campus Ireland through the feasibility study, the master plan, the early work on the aquatic leisure centre and the design phase. The Minister will shortly announce the framework plan and I am sure the project will proceed with my support and assistance whenever necessary.
I wish to clarify the allocation of responsibilities. Am I correct in saying the Taoiseach is responsible for the front of house operations? He meets the schoolboy leagues, other sports groups, the FAI, national groups and deals with the design officials and so on. What does the Minister do?
I did that but I will not continue to do it because I could not physically continue to do so.
I would not say that. It is not any bother to the Taoiseach.
I did the same with Campus Ireland and with the multimedia centre. When the work is at a stage where it can be followed through, it is realistic that the line Department should take responsibility. That is the practice followed in the Department of the Taoiseach for the past 30 or 40 years.
Does the Taoiseach agree that notwithstanding the developments which have taken place so far – I welcome the proposals in relation to the provisions for the Special Olympics – the key questions in relation to the occupancy of this stadium, its scale and size and other matters relating to its usage have not yet been resolved and that the project is still within the incubator stage? If the Taoiseach accepts that and that it is not a fit and well running child capable of being run as a line Department project, his abandonment of direct responsibility for answering questions in this House is extraordinary. His colleague, the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, does not know what is going on. Does the Taoiseach agree that the people involved in this project are the former Secretary-General of the Department, an eminent former civil servant and a senior civil servant who has been seconded from his Department and is still on the payroll of the Department of the Taoiseach?
Members should confine themselves to questions.
The Taoiseach has seen fit to go against the express wishes of the General Office. A question which was directed to him was transferred against its express request on 30 and 31 January. The project is not yet fully up and running; it is still within the ambit of the person who brought it forward. I cannot understand why the Taoiseach has transferred responsibility for this project to a Department which says it does not know what is going on.
Perhaps the Taoiseach is doing a Pontius Pilate on it.
The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation is extremely competent and well briefed on this issue. I have heard him dealing with it at numerous meetings and presentations and in this House. He knows more about the details than I do. The PricewaterhouseCooper feasibility study, which was carried out some time ago, set out the price structure. It is a campus development. I hope Deputy Quinn does not fall into the same trap as those people who believe that the stadium is the only development. It is a 600 acre development.
The architectural and environmental framework plan is finished and that will show a logical and coherent approach to the development of Sports Campus Ireland and all the facilities. There was an enormous response from international and national architectural firms to the competition which was conducted under the auspices of the RIAI. I was involved throughout that process. The winner of the competition will be announced shortly. It will show the campus and the entire layout of the facilities. The transport work has been completed. A small group of people is now working on how that will fit in with future plans. The proposal for the aquatic and leisure centre, which needed to be finalised, was cleared up before Christmas. It must be ready by December 2002 in preparation for the Special Olympics.
Discussions have taken place with all the major national sporting bodies. The board is up and running and its staff is fully in place. There are ongoing consultations with local public representatives and local community representatives. It does not need the Taoiseach of the day to hold its hand on an ongoing basis. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, who is as keen a sports person as I am, can now do it and he will have more time.
Is it the case that as soon as the Taoiseach had milked this project for all it was worth, including photocalls, meetings and high profile work, he quickly passed the dirty ball across to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation so he could take the flack when clients decided they would not use the new stadium? Will the Taoiseach or the Minister be in the photocall when the winner of this competition is announced? I strongly suspect the Taoiseach will be there taking the glory for that. Will he tell the House who is responsible for dealing with the Costello report, published last week, in which there was severe criticism of the Government about the lack of sporting facilities throughout the country and the over-emphasis on one single capital project as opposed to supplying sporting and recreation facilities all around the country? I suppose the hapless Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, will have to deal with the outcome of the Costello report. The Taoiseach will certainly not touch it.
What exactly is the role of the principal officer in the Department of the Taoiseach who has been sent to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation? Is it just to keep the Taoiseach informed when there might be a good photo opportunity or when something nice is coming up on this project? What exactly is his role, seeing as he is still attached to, and being paid by, the Taoiseach's Department?
The stadium will be well and truly managed by Campus Stadium Ireland Development Limited and the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. They have been involved in it from the outset. I do not really know why the Deputy is so disingenuous and against the project, although I am glad to see that all the Fine Gael councillors, bar one, strongly supported it a few weeks ago.
The Taoiseach should be spending a bit more around the country.
Not the councillors in west Cork.
I am also glad to see that her constituency colleagues have reprimanded her party's former leadership and have said they made a grave mistake in going against it. That was Councillor Boland.
The Costello report is clearly saying exactly the same thing.
The Costello report was talking about the period when the Deputy was a senior Minister and £13 million was spent on sport. Some 700% more is now being spent, which is £117 million.
The current report.
We are now doing something about it. We have moved beyond the stage of just piping up old nonsensical talk about sport. We are actually bringing in real infrastructure. Whether it is in Limerick, Cork, Dublin, Waterford or elsewhere, at last we are seeing real sports facilities. Unlike what we were doing a few years ago, 680 projects are now being funded all over the country, from scouts' dens to big football projects. Thankfully we have done that. Apart from the fact that the Deputy has to take a political line, I would think that, in her heart, she would be glad to see over 100 acres of parkland and 500 acres of development taking place in an area not too far from her own. That is something that will be truly worthwhile. My only hope is that I will live to see it all being completed.
With the Taoiseach's name in lights.
Does the delegation of this function to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation indicate any waning of interest by the Taoiseach in the project? Is the Government for turning on this project? Will the Taoiseach indicate the latest estimated cost of the project?
First, may I congratulate Deputy Mitchell on assuming his new position as Deputy Leader of Fine Gael. He is a constituency colleague and I wish him well. I assure Deputy Mitchell that I am 100% with this project. Planning permission for the first part of it has been in since 22 December and the architectural plan has been completed. Other aspects of it are moving forward and all the consultation has taken place. Wherever I can be useful, I will of course support it. The cost of the stadium, as outlined in the original PricewaterhouseCoopers' feasibility study, was and remains £230 million. The study also gave an initial guideline cost of £51 million for a campus of sporting excellence.
On the basis of further work that was carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers and the professional estimate for the commercial facilities planned, the stadium company estimates the cost of the campus, excluding the stadium, at £320 million. This gives a total cost of £550 million. Because the project is being put to the market on a public/private partnership basis – the commercial aspects of this were advertised in the paper a week or two ago – the private sector will be prepared to invest £150 million in the project, mostly for commercial facilities. So when the private donation of £50 million from J.P. McManus is taken into account, the latest cost to the Exchequer of Sports Campus Ireland, including the stadium, will be £350 million.
Can I take it that, notwithstanding the escalation of costs, neither the Taoiseach nor the Government is for turning on this issue?
I have given the costs. Deputy Mitchell will be aware that practically every project, including roadway projects, in which we are now involved has not come in under tender because of the escalation in wages and the upturn in the economy over the last few years. All these factors are contributing to escalating costs. I have given the Deputy the figures on this project until it goes out to tender. All the elements will not go out to tender in one go but as they go out, we will see what the costs are. As I understand it, the tender costs in regard to the aquatic centre were quite attractive because there was big international competition. On the international dimension to this, I think 11 of the top 14 companies in the world have shown an interest.
The question I asked the Taoiseach, which he did not answer, was, regardless of the cost, is he going ahead with this project?
Based on the costs that are there, I am going ahead with it.
So that means there is a question about the Taoiseach's commitment to this project if the costs continue to escalate.
The costs will continue to escalate over time. This will be done on a phased basis. In regard to the PricewaterhouseCoopers work, which was done in 1999 and reported at the end of 1999 to early 2000, those are the costs I have given. Elements of this will not happen for some time. It is unlikely that the costs then will be less than what they were in 1999. Could the Deputy, as Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, give me an example of where that has happened? I do not think that has ever happened in a project involving costs and services. These are the costs unless they escalate out of control, and I do not think there is any reason they should. The feasibility work was done on a good basis and I hope good design will be used and good international companies. I hope we will get competitive tendering. I see no reason, therefore, that we should consider not completing every aspect of this within a five or six year period.
Will the Taoiseach put on record the other costs associated with this project, including the cost of moving the State Laboratory and the State farm? Those are other costs which would be included in the overall cost of this project. Will the Taoiseach put those costs on the record as clearly as he did the other costs?
I do not have those costs but I know the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources have put those costs on the record so they are in the public domain. In some of these instances, while they are added on or, at least, put down as extra costs, it is a good idea for these companies to move, particularly for the Agricultural Institute to use up very valuable land and good resources.
The State Laboratory has only been built.