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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Mar 2001

Vol. 532 No. 2

Order of Business.

Bertie Ahern

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be as follows: No. 21, motion re removal of the reservation on Article 4.2.C of the Convention for the Protection of the Architectural Heritage of Europe; No. 49, Social Welfare Bill, 2001 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 48, Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill, 1999 [Seanad] – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m.; (2) No. 21 shall be decided without debate; and (3) Report and Final Stages of No. 49 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs. Private Members' Business shall be No. 111, motion re environment and local government (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

Rory O'Hanlon

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?

Ruairí Quinn

Mr. Quinn

Some weeks ago a Minister of State was bullied into resigning by an unelected official.

Dermot Ahern

Mr. D. Ahern

The Deputy's silence on the other issue speaks volumes.

Ruairí Quinn

Mr. Quinn

The press was misled. The Taoiseach bravely said, through his mouthpieces, that he would take action against Deputy Ned O'Keeffe if he did not resign secure in the knowledge that Deputy O'Keeffe had resigned an hour previously. The Taoiseach has been persistently discourteous in not replying to a letter of mine of 4 January which outlines a clear conflict of interest in that the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, is trying to raise the threshold of what can be spent on elections, to corrupt the outcome of Irish politics, while at the same time holding the position of joint treasurer of Fianna Fáil. It is not acceptable that the Order of Business should be agreed today. I am opposed to it.

Michael Noonan

Mr. Noonan

We are also opposing the Order of Business until the Taoiseach comes into the House to explain the reason Deputy Ned O'Keeffe resigned his office as Minister of State.

(Interruptions.)
Dermot Ahern

Mr. D. Ahern

He is not mentioned in the newspapers today.

Michael Noonan

Mr. Noonan

We will continue to oppose the Order of Business until the Taoiseach makes himself accountable to the House. All the false jollity on the other side will quickly dissipate in the next few weeks.

Trevor Sargent

Mr. Sargent

Tá an Comhaontas Glas ag diúltiú glacadh le Riar na hOibre chomh maith. Is beag is fiú faoin am seo an críoch déanach a chur ann mar go ndiúltaíonn an Taoiseach teacht isteach agus míniú a thabhairt dúinn ar éirí as an Aire Stáit O'Keeffe. Tá mé den tuairim chomh maith gur bheag gur fiú an críoch déanach mar nach mbíonn aon vóta ann ag an deireadh ar aon nós. Ceaptar go mbeadh go leor daoine imithe agus níl fhios agam cén fáth go bhfuilimid ag dul chomh déanach sin nuair nach mbeidh mórán daoine sa Teach.

Question put: "That the proposal for the late sitting be agreed to".
The Dáil divided: Tá 72; Níl, 66.

Tá

    Níl

      Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Bradford and Stagg.
      Question declared carried.
      Ahern, Bertie.
      Ahern, Dermot.
      Ahern, Michael.
      Ahern, Noel.
      Andrews, David.
      Ardagh, Seán.
      Aylward, Liam.
      Brady, Johnny.
      Brady, Martin.
      Brennan, Matt.
      Brennan, Séamus.
      Briscoe, Ben.
      Browne, John(Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.
      Callely, Ivor.
      Carey, Pat.
      Collins, Michael.
      Coughlan, Mary.
      Cullen, Martin.
      Daly, Brendan.
      Davern, Noel.
      de Valera, Síle.
      Tá–continuedDempsey, Noel.
      Dennehy, John.
      Doherty, Seán.
      Ellis, John.
      Fahey, Frank.
      Fleming, Seán.
      Flood, Chris.
      Foley, Denis.
      Fox, Mildred.
      Gildea, Thomas.
      Hanafin, Mary.
      Haughey, Seán.
      Healy-Rae, Jackie.
      Jacob, Joe.
      Keaveney, Cecilia.
      Kelleher, Billy.
      Kenneally, Brendan.
      Killeen, Tony.
      Kirk, Séamus.
      Kitt, Michael P.
      Kitt, Tom.
      Lenihan, Brian.
      Lenihan, Conor.
      McCreevy, Charlie.
      McDaid, James.
      McGennis, Marian.
      McGuinness, John J.
      Martin, Micheál.
      Moffatt, Thomas.
      Moloney, John.
      Moynihan, Donal.
      Moynihan, Michael.
      Ó Cuív, Éamon.
      O'Dea, Willie.
      O'Donoghue, John.
      O'Flynn, Noel.
      O'Hanlon, Rory.
      O'Keeffe, Batt.
      O'Malley, Desmond.
      O'Rourke, Mary.
      Power, Seán.
      Ryan, Eoin.
      Smith, Brendan.
      Smith, Michael.
      Treacy, Noel.
      Wade, Eddie.
      Wallace, Dan.
      Wallace, Mary.
      Woods, Michael.
      Wright, G. V.
      Barnes, Monica.
      Barrett, Seán.
      Bell, Michael.
      Belton, Louis J.
      Bradford, Paul.
      Broughan, Thomas P.
      Browne, John(Carlow-Kilkenny).
      Bruton, Richard.
      Burke, Liam.
      Burke, Ulick.
      Carey, Donal.
      Clune, Deirdre.
      Connaughton, Paul.
      Cosgrave, Michael.
      Coveney, Simon.
      Crawford, Seymour.
      Creed, Michael.
      Currie, Austin.
      D'Arcy, Michael.
      Deenihan, Jimmy.
      Dukes, Alan.
      Durkan, Bernard.
      Farrelly, John.
      Finucane, Michael.
      Fitzgerald, Frances.
      Flanagan, Charles.
      Gilmore, Éamon.
      Hayes, Brian.
      Healy, Seamus.
      Higgins, Jim.
      Higgins, Joe.
      Higgins, Michael.
      Hogan, Philip.
      Howlin, Brendan.
      Kenny, Enda.
      McCormack, Pádraic.
      McDowell, Derek.
      McGinley, Dinny.
      McGrath, Paul.
      McManus, Liz.
      Mitchell, Gay.
      Mitchell, Jim.
      Mitchell, Olivia.
      Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
      Naughten, Denis.
      Neville, Dan.
      Noonan, Michael.
      O'Keeffe, Jim.
      O'Shea, Brian.
      O'Sullivan, Jan.
      Owen, Nora.
      Penrose, William.
      Quinn, Ruairí.
      Rabbitte, Pat.
      Reynolds, Gerard.
      Ring, Michael.
      Ryan, Seán.
      Sargent, Trevor.
      Shatter, Alan.
      Shortall, Róisín.
      Spring, Dick.
      Stagg, Emmet.
      Stanton, David.
      Timmins, Billy.
      Upton, Mary.
      Wall, Jack.
      Séamus Pattison

      An Ceann Comhairle

      Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 agreed to?

      A Deputy

      It is not agreed.

      Ruairí Quinn

      Mr. Quinn

      The Taoiseach is continuing to abuse democracy in this House by refusing to account for his actions. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government is abusing democracy—

      Louis J. Belton

      Mr. Belton

      On a point of order—

      Séamus Pattison

      An Ceann Comhairle

      What is the point of order?

      Louis J. Belton

      Mr. Belton

      What is the point in controlling and conducting business when half the House is in disarray?

      Séamus Pattison

      An Ceann Comhairle

      That is not a point of order.

      Louis J. Belton

      Mr. Belton

      A Minister of State—

      Michael Woods

      Dr. Woods

      The Deputy would want to look the other way also.

      Ruairí Quinn

      Mr. Quinn

      We are being asked to agree to the Order of Business when, despite repeated requests from this side of the House, the Taoiseach arrogantly refuses to account for his actions as to the reason a Minister of State was forced to resign by one the Taoiseach's officials and the reason the Minister for the Environment and Local Government—

      Séamus Pattison

      An Ceann Comhairle

      The Deputy is being disorderly.

      Ruairí Quinn

      Mr. Quinn

      —is vetoing discussion on Committee Stage of a Bill passed unanimously on Second Stage? We are opposed to this order.

      Michael Noonan

      Mr. Noonan

      I put it to the Taoiseach that he has a hard neck to come into the House every morning and refuse the request of the Opposition.

      Dermot Ahern

      Mr. D. Ahern

      The Deputy has a hard neck to show his face here.

      Séamus Pattison

      An Ceann Comhairle

      Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 agreed to?

      A Deputy

      No.

      Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with No. 21 be agreed to".
      The Dáil divided: Tá, 72; Níl, 63.

      Tá

        Níl

          Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Bradford and Stagg.
          Question declared carried.
          Ahern, Bertie.
          Ahern, Dermot.
          Ahern, Michael.
          Ahern, Noel.
          Andrews, David.
          Ardagh, Seán.
          Aylward, Liam.
          Brady, Johnny.
          Brady, Martin.
          Brennan, Matt.
          Brennan, Séamus.
          Briscoe, Ben.
          Browne, John (Wexford).
          Byrne, Hugh.
          Callely, Ivor.
          Carey, Pat.
          Collins, Michael.
          Coughlan, Mary.
          Daly, Brendan.
          Davern, Noel.
          de Valera, Síle.
          Dempsey, Noel.
          Dennehy, John.
          Doherty, Seán.
          Ellis, John.
          Fahey, Frank.
          Fleming, Seán.
          Flood, Chris.
          Foley, Denis.
          Fox, Mildred.
          Gildea, Thomas.
          Hanafin, Mary.
          Haughey, Seán.
          Healy-Rae, Jackie.
          Jacob, Joe.
          Keaveney, Cecilia.
          Kelleher, Billy.
          Kenneally, Brendan.
          Killeen, Tony.
          Kirk, Séamus.
          Kitt, Michael P.
          Kitt, Tom.
          Lenihan, Brian.
          Lenihan, Conor.
          McCreevy, Charlie.
          McDaid, James.
          McGennis, Marian.
          McGuinness, John J.
          Martin, Micheál.
          Moffatt, Thomas.
          Moloney, John.
          Moynihan, Donal.
          Moynihan, Michael.
          Ó Cuív, Éamon.
          O'Dea, Willie.
          O'Donoghue, John.
          O'Flynn, Noel.
          O'Hanlon, Rory.
          O'Keeffe, Batt.
          O'Kennedy, Michael.
          O'Malley, Desmond.
          O'Rourke, Mary.
          Power, Seán.
          Ryan, Eoin.
          Smith, Brendan.
          Smith, Michael.
          Treacy, Noel.
          Wade, Eddie.
          Wallace, Dan.
          Wallace, Mary.
          Woods, Michael.
          Wright, G. V.
          Barnes, Monica.
          Barrett, Seán.
          Bell, Michael.
          Belton, Louis J.
          Bradford, Paul.
          Broughan, Thomas P.
          Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
          Bruton, Richard.
          Burke, Liam.
          Burke, Ulick.
          Carey, Donal.
          Clune, Deirdre.
          Cosgrave, Michael.
          Coveney, Simon.
          Crawford, Seymour.
          Creed, Michael.
          Currie, Austin.
          D'Arcy, Michael.
          Deenihan, Jimmy.
          Durkan, Bernard.
          Farrelly, John.
          Finucane, Michael.
          Fitzgerald, Frances.
          Flanagan, Charles.
          Níl–continuedGilmore, Éamon.
          Hayes, Brian.
          Healy, Seamus.
          Higgins, Jim.
          Higgins, Joe.
          Higgins, Michael.
          Hogan, Philip.
          Howlin, Brendan.
          Kenny, Enda.
          McCormack, Pádraic.
          McDowell, Derek.
          McGahon, Brendan.
          McGinley, Dinny.
          McGrath, Paul.
          McManus, Liz.
          Mitchell, Gay.
          Mitchell, Jim.
          Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.
          Naughten, Denis.
          Neville, Dan.
          Noonan, Michael.
          O'Keeffe, Jim.
          O'Shea, Brian.
          O'Sullivan, Jan.
          Owen, Nora.
          Perry, John.
          Quinn, Ruairí.
          Rabbitte, Pat.
          Reynolds, Gerard.
          Ring, Michael.
          Ryan, Seán.
          Sargent, Trevor.
          Shatter, Alan.
          Shortall, Róisín.
          Stagg, Emmet.
          Stanton, David.
          Timmins, Billy.
          Upton, Mary.
          Wall, Jack.
          Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 49 be agreed to" put and declared carried.
          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          The Taoiseach is no doubt aware that there is free movement of sheep and lambs from Northern Ireland if the sheep and lambs are of Northern Ireland origin, but that if they come from the United Kingdom, there is no such free movement. This morning it was stated that veterinary and other experts from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development and the Department of Agriculture in Northern Ireland are of the view that up to 8,000 sheep and lambs of English origin came from the North during January. This is an enormous level of smuggling and I would like the Taoiseach to give assurances to the House that all these sheep and lambs have been traced and that he is satisfied that there is no risk of infection from foot and mouth disease as a result of the continual smuggling of sheep and lambs of English origin into this jurisdiction.

          Ruairí Quinn

          Mr. Quinn

          I share the concern expressed by Deputy Noonan that the scale of smuggling is enormous. Is there any paramilitary involvement in such smuggling and have local residents on both sides of the Border been intimidated into either silence or compliance?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          The Minister has indicated that all records of potential imports from the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, have been traced back to 1 February. I cannot be certain that records were traced for all of January. As the Minister said yesterday, they are continuing to go further back in this process. Last week they had gone back as far as 1 February. There are a number of farms where currently or in the past there were suspicions. These account for some of the 567 farms which have been restricted for the purposes of precautionary veterinary examination. Clearly, in the last fortnight officials believe that they have managed to control the level of smuggling which did take place. Deputy Noonan's question concerned January in respect of which careful examination is necessary. Investigations have taken place in Carlow, Louth, Wicklow and a number of other areas. To reiterate what was said yesterday and what resulted from the interdepartmental meeting this morning, all the test results so far at all these locations and others are negative.

          We must continue to check and monitor as far back as we can. I cannot confirm the number as I do not know the level of smuggling. I do not know, therefore, if the figures mentioned this morning are correct. They are far higher than the figures mentioned here in the course of debate in recent weeks.

          Deputy Quinn asked about paramilitary activity. There have always been concerns about paramilitary involvement in the smuggling of cattle, sheep, fuels and other materials. This is continually kept under review. The enormous security operation on the Border, at least in our jurisdiction, has improved the position. There remains a worrying question, namely, the level of illegal movement in the Border area, which did not start yesterday, today or in this generation. It is a matter of concern for many reasons, not least animal health.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          Does the Taoiseach realise that Members on this side of the House are very concerned that the information being provided by way of parliamentary question is not accurate in respect of the smuggling of lambs? I draw his attention in particular to a letter from the Minister for Finance to Deputy Ring in 1998 apologising for the erroneous information given to him about the smuggling of lambs in connection with a VAT scam. I also draw his attention to a reply from the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development on 2 February last year which states: "I am not aware of any recent inci dents of illegally imported lambs or sheep". So, nobody knows anything about anything in the usual tradition of movement in these areas. As late as 12 months ago categoric assurances were given to the House that there was no smuggling of lambs, while two years ago there was an apology to a Deputy—

          Dermot Ahern

          Mr. D. Ahern

          He did not say that.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          I can give the Minister the reference and he can check it.

          Dermot Ahern

          Mr. D. Ahern

          That is twisting it.

          Pat Rabbitte

          Mr. Rabbitte

          The Minister is the man to check things.

          Jim O'Keeffe

          Mr. J. O'Keeffe

          He could try a few trees.

          (Interruptions.)
          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          Order, please. Deputy Noonan without interruption.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          I do not mind being interrupted by genuine Fianna Fáil people with Fianna Fáil backgrounds but I resent being interrupted by carpetbaggers.

          Conor Lenihan

          Mr. C. Lenihan

          Is it in order to refer to Members as carpetbaggers?

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          Would the Deputy care to make a statement about the time he was a consultant to Esat? Or was it Telenor?

          Conor Lenihan

          Mr. C. Lenihan

          I would be delighted to do so if the Deputy cares to make his allegations outside the House.

          (Interruptions.)
          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          Order, please. Deputy Noonan with a brief supplementary question. Deputies should not interrupt.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that he can stand over the information given to the House and sourced in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development about sheep being moved from the North to the South? There is free passage if they are of Northern origin but there is no free passage if they come from Carlisle. That is an issue of major concern and if the Taoiseach has any doubts, will he carry out inquiries in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development as to the veracity of the information being presented?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, his Minister of State and I have made it clear over the last ten or 12 days that while there is free movement on the island, and has been for a long time, any sheep coming in from elsewhere should not have been put forward as sheep just moving between North and South in the normal way. We know that in the Carlisle case and perhaps in other cases that there are suspicions about the procedure followed and one of the reasons for the legislation approved by the Government yesterday and due before the House this week is to tie down registration, controls and penalties. The Department has traced back to 1 February but will go back as far as it can. I have already said the exclusion zones in operation in north Louth and other suspicious areas will continue and tracing will also continue.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          Are the January imports going to be traced?

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          We must move on.

          Ruairí Quinn

          Mr. Quinn

          Now that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats have decided that the Joint Committee on Public Enterprise and Transport should investigate the circumstances of the granting of the second mobile phone licence, the Labour Party supports such an investigation. However, does the Taoiseach agree that it is totally inappropriate that Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats should retain the benefit of the £50,000 donation from Mr. O'Brien in the context of that investigation? Does the Taoiseach propose to give it back given the circumstances?

          Michael Smith

          Mr. M. Smith

          We do not have rich brothers.

          Brendan Howlin

          Mr. Howlin

          That is sad.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          Deputy Noonan has a supplementary question on this issue.

          Michael Noonan

          Mr. Noonan

          Prior to this matter being referred to the committee, and my party has no difficulty with that, will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Public Enterprise to examine the relevant files, which have been in her possession for three and a half years? Will she bring to the attention of the House anything within those files she regards as suspicious? It seems rich to me to refer something to a committee when the documentation that supports it has been in the possession of the Government for almost four years.

          Louis J. Belton

          Mr. Belton

          A witch hunt.

          Alan Shatter

          Mr. Shatter

          The Progressive Democrats are the Fianna Fáil mudguard. Deputy Molloy is outraged but he was not outraged by Deputy Lawlor and his £5 million.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          Deputy Shatter is being disorderly. The Taoiseach, without interruption.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          Two questions arise. One relates to what work the committee might undertake, which is of course a matter for the committee.

          Michael Creed

          Mr. Creed

          Except when the Government vetoes the committee.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          I am sure the Minister and the Department will co-operate. The second issue relates to these matters being examined. There are many other areas in which tribunals have contacted Departments regarding files – there are at least ten such areas – and I am sure that will happen in this case as well.

          Ruairí Quinn

          Mr. Quinn

          The Taoiseach failed to answer the question I raised. Does he consider it totally contradictory for Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats to call for an investigation into the granting of a second mobile phone licence while continuing to be the beneficiaries of a gift of £50,000 each from the person who won that licence?

          Noel Dempsey

          Mr. Dempsey

          Is the Deputy saying it is wrong?

          Ruairí Quinn

          Mr. Quinn

          I am saying it is inappropriate. Does the Minister not think so?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          As I said, whatever work goes on at the committee, it will get on with its business. I am not going to get into an argument about who gave what contribution. That is not relevant.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          We come to other questions on the Order of Business.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          I wish to raise two items, one of which may come under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill. There has been much concern expressed about the estimated 27 million slaves in the world but I was taken aback when an eminent academic said in an interview this morning that some of those slaves are foreign women in Irish brothels. This matter should be debated here and perhaps the Taoiseach—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy should consult the Whips on this matter which is not in order on the Order of Business.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          Does this matter arise because such people are not citizens? Perhaps we could raise the matter under the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Bill. Also, during the debate on the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, perhaps we could discuss the crisis in the blood supply. People are not being operated on and lives may even be at risk—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          That is not a matter that relates to promised legislation.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          This is an important matter.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          I call Deputy Howlin.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          This is serious.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy should resume his seat. He is out of order since he stood up. We are on the Order of Business, which is a limited way of raising matters.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          On a point of order—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Chair has called on the Deputy to resume his seat and he should oblige.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          On a point of order—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy cannot raise a point of order when the Chair is on its feet. I call Deputy Howlin. If the Deputy continues to be disorderly he knows what will happen.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          I will not be threatened—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Chair will not be threatened or intimidated either.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          I have resumed my seat.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy is not in his seat. He must resume his seat properly.

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          On a point of order—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy must leave the House. I call on the Deputy to leave the House. He has been out of order since I called him to speak. If the Deputy does not leave the House—

          Gay Mitchell

          Mr. G. Mitchell

          I am entitled to raise a point of order.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy is not entitled to raise a point of order when the Chair is on its feet. I have asked the Deputy to leave the House and he must leave the House.

          Mr. G. Mitchell withdrew from the Chamber.

          Brendan Howlin

          Mr. Howlin

          I raise the Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill, 2000. It is No. 100 on today's Order Paper. Its provisions permit the publication of advices from the Attorney General. When will that Bill be taken and, in the interim, will the Taoiseach accept the principle of the Bill and allow the advices he purports to have from the Attorney General, which forbid corporate donations to be banned, to be published?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          As I understand it, it is to be referred to the committee.

          Ruairí Quinn

          Mr. Quinn

          It has not been passed yet.

          Brendan Howlin

          Mr. Howlin

          Is the Taoiseach indicating that the Bill will be facilitated?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          We will see when it is moved.

          Brendan Howlin

          Mr. Howlin

          Will the Bill be facilitated?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          It is a Private Members' Bill. The Deputy should move it and see what happens.

          Deirdre Clune

          Ms Clune

          There are reports today that the Minister for the Environment and Local Government proposes to remove powers from local authorities to provide waste facilities and to transfer those powers to city and county managers. Will that be done through an amendment to the local government Bill or will there be separate legislation?

          Joe Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Dublin West): Having disastrously failed to take effective measures to reduce waste or to challenge the vested interests in industry, agriculture and construction which create the bulk of the waste, is it the case, as was reported in the press this morning, that dictatorial powers are to be given to county managers, overriding the democratic rights of communities and elected councillors to—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          What the legislation will do is not a matter for a question on the Order of Business.

          Joe Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Dublin West):—foist on them anti-community methods of eliminating waste?

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          The Deputy should put a question on legislation.

          Joe Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Dublin West): My question relates to legislation promised outside the House.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          Yes, but it should not deal with the content of legislation. I call Deputy Gilmore on the same subject.

          Eamon Gilmore

          Mr. Gilmore

          I asked about the purpose of this Bill during Question Time more than a week ago but the Minister declined to provide the House with information. Is it in order that, having declined to tell the House what the Bill is about, the Minister is arranging to have his spin doctors tell it to the media? Is that treating the House with the respect it deserves?

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          That question is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

          Brendan Howlin

          Mr. Howlin

          It is a question that is appropriate to the Ceann Comhairle.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          I call Deputy Olivia Mitchell on the same subject.

          Olivia Mitchell

          Ms O. Mitchell

          Is this the way legislation is to be conveyed to the House, through newspaper articles? Is it genuine legislation or is it another promise like the tax on plastic bags?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          The waste management Bill is before the Cabinet. Hopefully, it will be cleared and published shortly.

          Alan Shatter

          Mr. Shatter

          Does the Taoiseach have a date for when the human rights commission (amendment) Bill will be published so the human rights commission can be facilitated in getting on with its work as a statutory body?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          It will be published as soon as possible in this session. Work is well advanced on it.

          Michael D. Higgins

          Mr. M. Higgins

          Last week, understandably, the House changed its Order of Business. The bombing of Iraq and recent events in that country had been scheduled for discussion on Thursday. When will that discussion be rescheduled? The slot on Thursday this week is occupied by the human rights motion which was put down by the Government in 1997. It is a pity that something which had waited four years has dislodged the debate on Iraq, to which many Members wish to contribute. When is it proposed to re-order this discussion?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          Regrettably, that debate could not be taken last week despite my promise to Deputy Higgins. We will try to reschedule it to take place as soon as possible.

          Jim Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Mayo): Yesterday, the Chair ruled out a debate proposed by me under Standing Order 31 on the crisis in the electricity industry. We are facing imminent collapse.

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          That was dealt with on yesterday's Order of Business.

          Jim Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Mayo): This will destroy the Celtic tiger and undermine the national development plan. I have a number of questions for the Taoiseach. Will the Government please stop whistling past the graveyard in relation to this imminent crisis? Will the Taoiseach take control of the situation given that the Minister appears to be totally out of touch? Third, will the Taoiseach bring forward the electricity Bill, 2000 which is designed to restructure the electricity industry but which is not expected until 2002? This is a major crisis that is not being tackled by the Government.

          Emmet Stagg

          Mr. Stagg

          The legislation is No. 101 on the list and is scheduled for next year or the year after. The suppliers of electricity now say that one third of the country cannot accommodate factories of a certain size and in five years, two thirds of the country will be unable to accommodate them. There is an urgency about this issue so there would be support from all sides of the House if the Government were prepared to act. Urgent action is required. I ask that the legislation be brought forward.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          This is major legislation. It will bring all electricity Acts into a consolidated Act as well as dealing with the plc and other issues. However, that is not affecting the work that is ongoing in—

          Emmet Stagg

          Mr. Stagg

          There is no work going on.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          —changing from the low voltage distribution network over the next number of years.

          Jim Higgins

          Mr. Higgins

          (Mayo): Nothing is happening.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          A total of £1.5 billion will be spent on updating the system and that work is under way.

          Emmet Stagg

          Mr. Stagg

          The Government would not let a power station be built.

          Denis Naughten

          Mr. Naughten

          Will the Taoiseach allocate time to move motion No. 50 on the Order Paper? Will he give a commitment that the reports in the media today regarding the possible execution of a 26 year old mentally disabled person in Missouri—

          Séamus Pattison

          An Ceann Comhairle

          That should be raised in another way; it is not relevant to the Order of Business.

          Denis Naughten

          Mr. Naughten

          —will be raised by the Irish Government with the American Government and that the Government will use its influence on the Security Council to ensure it does not happen?

          Emmet Stagg

          Mr. Stagg

          Can the Government ensure there will be an electricity supply for the House?

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          That matter can be considered by the Whips.

          Liz McManus

          Ms McManus

          The debate on human rights had to be deferred because of the foot and mouth crisis. I have a question about an issue which I have raised on a number of occasions. Can the human rights of a particularly vulnerable group in society, people with psychiatric illness, be protected by means of the Government bringing forward Report Stage of the Mental Health Bill? We have waited for months but the Bill has been slow coming through the House. It has now reached Report Stage but there is still no sign from the Minister for Health and Children of the amendments he intends to put down on Report Stage so the Bill can be completed.

          Bertie Ahern

          The Taoiseach

          The Bill is awaiting order for Report Stage. The Deputy should raise the matter with the Minister for Health and Children.

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