Gay Mitchell
Question:1 Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Taoiseach if he will report progress on the work of the Cabinet sub-committees chaired by him. [11484/01]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Cabinet Committees.
I chair Cabinet committees on asylum seekers, children, European affairs, housing, infrastructure and public private partnerships and social inclusion. As I have outlined to the House on a number of occasions, Cabinet committees are an integral part of the Cabinet process. Questions as to the business conducted at Cabinet or Cabinet committee meetings have not ever been allowed in the House on the grounds that they are internal to Government. The reasons for this approach are founded on sound policy principles and the need to avoid infringing the constitutional protection of Cabinet confidentiality. As always, questions on particular policy issues should be tabled to relevant Ministers.
What progress has been made on social exclusion, particularly the problem of drugs which is relevant to the sub-committees mentioned by the Taoiseach?
This question is about progress made by Cabinet committees chaired by the Taoiseach and it is not in order to seek to broaden the ambit of the question by raising matters of Government policy and matters covered by the committees. The Deputy's supplementary question concerns Government policy.
My question concerns the progress of the work of Cabinet sub-committees. I am asking about the sub-committee on social exclusion. What progress has been made on social exclusion by the sub-committee, in particular the issues that feed into the drugs problem in Dublin and the rest of the country?
The Taoiseach may reply on various specific policy matters.
The national drugs strategy, which has been presented following about 15 months of work, develops what has been done in relation to drugs in recent years. It has a broader remit and extends into many more areas than current measures. The strategy sets out 100 positive actions, agreed following the deliberations of the sub-committee and including suggestions from all groups that have a role in dealing with this problem. The strategy will take effect throughout the country, including the 13 areas where drugs are most prevalent.
Has the sub-committee considered, on a cross-party basis, the effectiveness of methadone? Is the substitution of methadone for heroin working? What assessment has been made on a cross-party basis of rehabilitating people to get them back into the mainstream of society? What progress has been made? What measures are used to indicate the level of progress?
The methadone programme, while perhaps not entirely effective, has been enormously successful. Research shows that people get off drugs through methadone programmes. It is not the final result for many heroin users, as many of them find it difficult to get off methadone and need further rehabilitation and treatment. It is not as common as it once was to go through a detoxification system. Attempts are being made to extend the methadone programme to more areas, although the substance of the programme will remain as it has been since 1995.
More methadone facilities will be developed in communities so that people can attend treatment centres locally, rather than having to travel to large centres where difficulties ensue. Research recently carried out by the Minister of State, Deputy Ryan, in conjunction with the national drugs strategy team and local area teams shows there is support in local areas for community treatment centres and for more centres dealing with fewer people. Programmes like those I have mentioned will continue under the national drugs strategy.
Is the Taoiseach aware that research carried out by Area Response Crumlin and others shows that about 20% of those who abuse heroin sit the leaving certificate, compared to an average of about 80% nationally? Have the Taoiseach and the sub-committee on social exclusion examined that issue?
The sub-committee is a matter of Cabinet confidentiality.
Will the Taoiseach comment on the fact that people who have little opportunity for second level, let alone third level, education are among those most likely to fall into the trap of abusing hard drugs? Is that issue being considered on the agenda as a social exclusion issue?
Yes, but again it is not just within the committee; it is also due to the work and research of all the people involved, whom I should thank for the work they have put in over the past 12 to 15 months in the preparation of the national drugs strategy and their plans for the future. All of these communities were involved in devising the plans and arrangements to try to deal with this issue.
It has always been a fact that people in the most marginalised and disadvantaged communities are targeted and, unfortunately, are more likely to engage in using drugs of one form or another. For that reason the efforts of the social inclusion committee across all Departments has been to try to put in place the necessary rehabilitation, medical, paramedical and recreation facilities in those areas. A range of projects under sports grants, recreation grants, in the health area and the children area have been introduced in those areas.
The combination of these problems many of which have been going on for a number of years and other new ones which are the subject of new research, and the issues involved in addressing them, which are outlined in the drugs strategy programme, is having an effect. A large number of people are still on drugs and that has an effect on the most disadvantaged communities.
The Taoiseach is chairing the sub-committee on housing infrastructure and public private partnerships. In respect of public private partnerships, I put it to the Taoiseach there is a perception that the projects are stuck, that after four years in Government nothing in coming true that would suggest PPPs will build roads, bridges or tunnels. With regard to the public private partnerships that are being proposed to finance, design, construct and manage projects, will the Taoiseach confirm there is a problem with the financial side in so far as the typical proposal received suggests the investors would put in 10% of the cost and are seeking a 17% return on that—
That matter relates to another Department.
It does not really. The Taoiseach is chairing this committee and it is a matter that—
Questions cannot be asked on what was discussed at the meetings of this committee.
I am not asking that question.
It is not in order to go through every responsibility of every Minister under this question. The question before us is specifically about the progress made by the committee, not about the content of that.
That is right. Any of the items I mentioned are merely for the Chair's information, to put my question in context so that the Taoiseach will understand the context in which I am putting the question. I am not asking him to answer those issues. I am providing the context and I am coming to my question.
Matters that are not within the direct administration of the Taoiseach are not in order.
I will rephrase my point. Given that the finance of public private partnerships depends ultimately on whether roads, tunnels and bridges are tolled and that the two main Dublin toll bridges are threatened with closure today, what is the Government—
That is outside of the ambit of the question. The Deputy should stick to the precise nature of the question which is about the progress of the committee. The industrial dispute at the toll bridges is nothing to do with this question.
With respect, the Taoiseach—
I ask the Deputy to accept the ruling of the Chair. That is the only way we can proceed. The Chair has ruled on this matter.
I accept the Chair's ruling. May I try again? I put it to the Taoiseach that he chairs a committee called the housing infrastructure and public private partnership committee. In the context of that committee, has it yet made progress on deciding—
Questions cannot be asked on what the committee decided or discussed, as that is a matter of Cabinet confidentiality. That is quite clear. Any question about what this committee discussed is not in order.
The Chair told me I could ask what progress was being made.
Yes, the Deputy may ask a question about the progress made but not on what the committee discussed.
It has to discuss but it makes progress. Does the Chair understand that?
The Deputy should accept the ruling of the Chair.
I accept it. I know the Chair has a difficult job with difficult Deputies like me. What progress has the Taoiseach made in resolving the issue of whether it is Government policy to toll roads, tunnels and bridges which are built privately? Has he taken into account that for the first time in our history roads can be closed by industrial action and that that could not happen if tolls did not apply? What is the Government's position on tolling roads and has the committee made progress on that?
One of the two toll roads in question has been tolled for over 20 years – that toll system has run for 30 years – therefore there is nothing new in that regard. On the overall question, without saying what happened at meetings, there are 11 projects on roads, several projects on water schemes and several projects on sewerage schemes. There is a large amount of interest. I am not aware of any particular financing problem but I am sure if the Deputy wants to give information on that to me or to my colleague, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, that Minister will certainly consider it.
The first two road projects, the Waterford and Kilcock-Kinnegad projects, are at tendering stages and a number of other ones are at various stages of negotiations, including the Limerick ring road and the contract for the second Westlink bridge. The work on the Westlink bridge, which is one of the bridges to which the Deputy referred, commences this month.
The Taoiseach referred to the Government's drugs strategy announced last week. Will he explain what he has in mind when he refers to the additional allocation of gardaí to the areas most affected by the heroin problem? No doubt there is a huge demand for additional Garda resources in those areas. What scale of numbers is he talking about, what timescale does he have in mind and from where will these gardaí be drawn?
Again it is a matter of detail but once the Taoiseach has mentioned it in his answer, he may clarify the issue.
It is set out in the strategy. It is to commence at the end of this year and it will be prioritised. The number of gardaí is growing – there are up to 12,000 gardaí at present. The intention is that gardaí who are taken off other security duties, those who are at present involved in Border duties on the foot and mouth disease issue, and new gardaí will be able to come back to some of these duties later in the year and that priority would be given in line with what the drugs strategy team is trying to do. The intention is that additional numbers – I cannot recall the numbers and the Deputy would need to table a question to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to find that out – would be assigned to these areas and that has been worked out on an operational basis with the Garda Commissioner.