Vol. 537 No. 2
5 Mr. Noonan asked the Taoiseach the costs which have accrued to date to his Department in respect of the commission of inquiry into the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14121/01]
6 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he has satisfied himself that the terms of reference given to the commission of inquiry into the 1974 Monaghan and Dublin bombings are adequate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14788/01]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.
The costs relating to the independent commission of inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings amount to £218,000. The Government also facilitated the legal engagement with the independent commission of inquiry of the group, Justice for the Forgotten, representing the relatives and victims of the bombings, and these costs amount to £398,330. Therefore, the total costs of the current examination of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings amount to £616,330.
The terms of reference were approved by the Government following consultations with Justice for the Forgotten and Judge Hamilton, and were accepted as satisfactory by all concerned. I understand that the independent commission is making satisfactory progress, but it is not possible to indicate as yet when it will report.
I have two supplementary questions. Is the Taoiseach satisfied with the co-operation which the commission receives from the relevant British authorities, such as the RUC and the Ministry of Defence? Given the current challenge to the remit of the committee inquiring into the Abbeylara incident, what steps will the Government take to ensure that an Oireachtas committee will be properly empowered to deal with Mr. Justice Barron's report when it is completed?
I understand from the independent commission that considerable progress has been made. Some material requested from the British authorities has not yet been received. Until it is and assessed, it is not possible to give a timeframe for the finalisation of the report. Much of the information requested was provided. It is a new aspect being pursued by Mr. Justice Barron and he is waiting for it. The matter was raised with the British authorities. We were told that although it is difficult to find and assemble the material, the request is being treated with the seriousness it deserves. Progress is slow, but Mr. Justice Barron requires the information and we believe that it will be assembled.
We agreed a process to examine the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and are in the first stage. We await the independent commission's report before proceeding to the next one. The case of Abbeylara is different from the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. We will proceed with the process that was agreed for the bombings. Regarding the overall context raised by the Deputy, the legislation is being examined and the court case this week is a challenge to any Oireachtas committee being able to investigate anything. That could have an effect, but I hope not.
I fully accept that the Abbeylara inquiry is not relevant to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. However, my point was that the Taoiseach's agreement with the Justice for the Forgotten group is that Mr. Justice Barron's report will go to a committee of this House. We must be sure that a committee of this House will be able to work on it, as the Taoiseach committed the Government to in discussion with that group. What material in particular, requested from the British authorities, is still awaited? Will Mr. Justice Barron and his assistants seek this directly or is his request reinforced by diplomatic activity and the Taoiseach's direct conversations with the British Prime Minister?
I accept the point in the first question. If the action against the committee were to win, we could not investigate anything. We are attempting to ensure that it is not the case. There are many aspects being pursued on the second issue. While Mr. Justice Barron's work is fact finding and assessing all aspects of the bombings and their sequel, including the circumstances, causes, perpetrators, investigations into them, including the Garda investigation which he has, and the RUC's, the handling of evidence, why no prosecutions took place, and particularly those aspects of the information he is endeavouring to follow through – aspects as to why no investigations or prosecutions took place and why investigations ceased very speedily – he is particularly anxious to get the full picture. All of the things the Deputy said are the means by which we are following through. We are diplomatically doing so through Departments with myself backing up Justice Barron's case. What the Deputy said is correct in that Justice Barron is making the initial review and then we will back it up.
The Taoiseach will agree with me when I express the view that this House is disappointed at the inevitable slowness that has been associated with this inquiry for reasons that have already been stated. In the light of that delay, will the Government indicate when it will move on the six recommendations of the Victims' Commission chaired by former Tánaiste, Mr. Wilson? Does the Taoiseach recognise that report is now nearly two years old having been published in July 1999 and that there are a number of specific recommendations that could give some comfort, recognition and monetary compensation to the victims about which there is no doubt in relation to where and who they are 28 years after the event? Has the Government considered moving forward on the implementation of these recommendations in advance of any final conclusions that Justice Barron may come to in respect of his report or, indeed, any committee that might subsequently investigate that report?
I am not totally up to date on the position but I know the Minister has moved on some of these recommendations. Some of those recommendations also deal with other cases and he hopes to bring forward his views on some of them shortly. He has also been working on the recommendations. If he has not moved on some of them, I understand his intention is to do so. I will bring the Deputy's question to the attention of the Minister. It is about two months since I checked it but, at that stage, some of the resource activities were being dealt with – issues around the Seamus Ludlow case and some other cases. I will check the latest position on that for the Deputy.
In answering these questions on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, I ask the Taoiseach to recognise that the victims of the atomic bomb in Hiroshima are in the Public Gallery today.
It is not in order to refer to people—
It is a coincidence and is quite poignant—
It is not in order—
We are talking about justice for the forgotten.
The Deputy should comply with Standing Orders.
I appreciate the ruling, a Cheann Comhairle. In relation to the £218,000 and the ongoing inquiry, where stand the concerns of the survivors and relatives of victims of the 1972 Sackville Place bombing and the 1973 bombing who are working alongside the victims of the 1974 bombings and who are wondering whether all the issues dealing with the 1974 bombings have to be dealt with first before their issues are dealt with? Is there any form of parallel treatment of their case which would ensure they do not feel left behind and overwhelmed by the huge amount of suffering in 1974?
As regards all these issues and bombings, hopefully, some information in the trawl and investigation might cast some light on the circumstances of the other cases. That would be helpful. The terms of reference include the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, that is, the explosions which took place in Parnell Street, Talbot Street and South Leinster Street on 17 May 1974 and the bomb in North Street in Monaghan on the same day. They also extended them to take into account what are known as the Dundalk bombings which took place during Christmas week of 1975 and they also offered to look at the Seamus Ludlow case but that offer has not yet been taken up, although there are considerations. They are the ones to which the report relates. I am sure information unfolded in any of those other examples would be used in those cases, but they are not part of the terms of reference.
Has Mr. Justice Barron indicated to the Government that his terms of reference are sufficient to carry out the full inquiry he believe is necessary to undertake his task and, if not, would the Taoiseach be willing to extend them to allow him to do so?
Yes is the reply to both those questions. There are no difficulties, but if it were necessary to extend them I would be agreeable to doing so.
I wish to return to the Taoiseach's original reply and to the point put to him by Deputy Noonan. The committee that sought to inquire into the Abbeylara affair found that existing compellability legislation is deficient, that there is a need for it to be put beyond reasonable doubt that this House has the power to call witnesses in committee and sub-committee and that issues of privilege are properly extended to Members not only in committee but when taking consultations and advice from advisers. As the Taoiseach is aware, short draft legislation was presented to the Minister of State to deal with that issue. Has the Government yet formed a view on whether it will bring forward that legislation, given that all committees, including the one that may have to deal with Mr. Justice Barron's report, will be effectively spancelled in their ability to conduct the type of inquiry that would be required?
Yes, the Government has formed a view. We are taking into account that legislation, which the parliamentary draftsman and officials in the Attorney General's office are examining. It is our view that it would not be appropriate to bring forward or publish legislation until the matter, which is before the court today and possibly for the next few days, is dealt with, as there is a fundamental challenge to the right of public representatives to in any way form part of these investigative committees. It is our advice that this issue must be dealt with and then the Government will bring forward legislation if that is necessary.
(Dublin West): Does the Taoiseach agree that the most important issue in regard to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings is to get to the nub of the matter and particularly to establish responsibility, and whether that responsibility includes involvement of any State? Has the Taoiseach spoken directly to the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, about this investigation and the papers, other material or information that need to be handed over by the British authorities? Is the tardiness in handing over such information the reason for the delay in holding the inquiry? If the Taoiseach raised this matter with the British Prime Minister, what was his reaction? If the Taoiseach has not yet raised the matter with him, will he do so to end the delay in holding this inquiry?
As certain elements of the Garda bitterly resented the Abbeylara inquiry, have all papers and necessary information in the possession of the Garda been handed over without question? The Taoiseach said he could not put a time limit on the completion of the report. Can he give the Dáil a ballpark picture of the time it will take to collect the remainder of the material and when we might expect the report to be completed?
Questions about the Abbeylara report are not in order.
(Dublin West): My last question relates to the collection of the remaining information for the Barron inquiry.
That question is in order.
In relation to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings inquiry, I cannot put a date on it, as it would be inappropriate for me to put a deadline on it. Information that was requested early on and in the course of the examination has been handed over, but as Mr. Justice Barron has gone through more detail, new issues have come to light on which he wishes to get further information. The difficulty perhaps is that that information is not there.
Mr. Justice Barron would like important information which he believes is required assembled and researched. To date, the British authorities have co-operated with us on these matters and I am sure they will do so in this instance. It is not the British Government that is creating difficulties but the relevant sections which must do the preparatory work. I hope the information will be forthcoming.
When does Mr. Justice Barron expect to complete his work and when will his report go to an Oireachtas committee?
I cannot put a date on it. It is more important that Mr. Justice Barron completes his work. To the best of my knowledge, I believe he would like to complete the work as soon as possible for his own reasons.
Are we talking about before the summer?
I cannot say because he is following up a number of matters.
