Vol. 558 No. 2
51 Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the action he has taken or intends to take to deal with late night and early morning disturbances in towns and cities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23813/02]
54 Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the way in which he intends to combat the growing level of crime and vandalism, having regard to the fact that the allocation for the Garda Síochána in the Book of Estimates for 2003 has been increased by less than half the expected rate of inflation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23700/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 51 and 54 together.
The Deputy will be aware that the gardaí have extensive powers under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994, to deal with late night drinking and disturbances. In addition, as the Deputy is probably aware, in June last I reintroduced the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill, 2002, which had been published by my predecessor in the Department, Deputy O'Donoghue, and which is today resuming at Second Stage in the Dáil. This legislation will, when enacted, give the gardaí significant additional powers to assist them in dealing with drunkenness and disorderly conduct which, as most people would accept, are contributing to street crime and violent assaults. The purpose of the Bill is to augment the law so as to tackle the problem of drink related late night disturbance and the growing problem of late night street violence which has its origins in or outside licensed premises and fast food outlets. It will apply to pubs, off-licences, discos, night clubs, dance venues of all types, amusement arcades, chip shops, take-aways and mobile food vehicles.
In addition, Garda operations which target such behaviour play a vital role in combating this type of crime. Operation Encounter is focused on all issues of public order occurring in the community. Particular attention is paid to night clubs, fast food outlets and other venues at which large numbers of people congregate and where there is potential for disorder. The target hours of the operation are determined locally, based on the specific circumstances prevailing at each location. Particular attention is being paid to ensuring that the owners and managers of such premises are fully aware of their responsibilities and the duty of care they owe to their patrons and other members of the public.
The Estimates for the Garda Vote for 2003 show an increase of almost €19 million over the corresponding provision for 2002, which is an overall increase of 2%. It is too early at this stage to say if Garda services will be affected in 2003 as detailed budgets have not yet been prepared. However, the priority will be to maintain the existing level of front line policing services to the public by focusing on key services, increasing efficiency and getting best value for money.
Perhaps one of the ironies of life is that the more gardaí are put on the streets at night in the circumstances referred to, the worse the crime figures appear later because more offences are detected and put into the PULSE system.
The Minister should call all the gardaí off the streets and see what happens. He is using reverse psychology.
Extra gardaí on the streets do not simply have a deterrent effect. A much greater proportion of crime is recorded.
Does the Minister agree that late night opening of licensed premises contributes hugely to the problem? Has he any plans to review the decision of the previous Government in that regard? Many late night disturbances are also associated with people congregating in the vicinity of fast food outlets. Has the Minister any views on our drinking culture which, according to some commentators, is contributing to many problems in health, crime and social problems? Has the Government any plans or strategy to deal with our drink culture in terms of the advertising and portrayal of drink, especially for younger people?
I agree that late night drinking is one of the problems. In the course of a recent debate in the Seanad, I raised the possibility that local authorities might be given discretion as to their preferred bands of opening hours, either in the whole of their functional areas or in particular portions. That would make it possible, for instance, for a quiet rural town to close down, effectively, at midnight if that was the local preference, without prescribing the same closing time for, say, Temple Bar in Dublin or other places. The Commission on Intoxicating Liquor Licensing, chaired by Mr. Gordon Holmes, hopes to have its final report available to me a few months from now.
The Deputy is correct in saying the last Government extended the licensed opening hours. However, in case the blame for any consequences is directed at this side of the House, I remind the Deputy that many in his party said there should be no restrictions of any kind and criticised my predecessor, Deputy O'Donoghue, for the narrowness of his perspective. In the context of public order legislation from the other side of the House, the red skirt of Galway West, Deputy Michael D. Higgins, accused me of making war on an entire young generation of Irish people by introducing these measures.
The Minister is simply wasting time so that we cannot put questions to him. Perhaps he is a little flustered. He is confusing detection and commission of crime. If there are more gardaí on the streets, more crime is detected but it is also likely that less crime will be committed. Does the Minister agree there is no alternative, in terms of dealing with crime, to having gardaí on the beat? Does he agree that what he has got in the Estimates to date is a 2% increase, which is less than half the current rate of inflation and that that will not increase the number of gardaí on the beat or the ability to combat crime? Further, does he agree that the crime figures published yesterday show the situation has become dire and that special urgent measures are required?
I agree totally that if more gardaí are put on the streets that has two results. First, one detects more crime and, at the same time, one deters more crime. There is a combination of both factors involved. However, the exact balance is not as obvious as one might imagine. Frequently, the effect of sending out more gardaí is that, at the end of the night, more material is put into the PULSE system. That feeds into the annual report and, in the last analysis, the situation appears to be getting worse although in fact, on the basis of the Deputy's very wise observation, it is actually improving.
In relation to the amount of money available, I agree the 2% increase for the Garda Síochána will present challenges. However, now is the time, in present circumstances, to allocate resources and prioritise their use to the maximum possible extent. We have to look at every available euro at all levels to ensure we get best value for money in terms of maximising on the street operational functions and reducing other functions. The message I and the Garda Commissioner have been sending out is that we have to manage this very substantial budget as best we can. He is as determined as I to ensure we get value for money in that regard.
Based on the Minister's theory of correlation between detection and the number of gardaí on the streets, does he agree his predecessor was incorrect in stating that zero tolerance was effective in reducing crime levels? If zero tolerance had been working effectively, detection levels would have increased. Does the Minister also agree that, in addition to the issues he mentioned with regard to late night violence, it is also a matter, in many cases, of people who feel excluded hitting back at society? Is he aware that in studies carried out in some juvenile delinquent centres, up to 50% of inmates suffered from dyslexia? Will he agree to look at this issue over the next few years? I raised it several times in the last Dáil but it was not followed up. Educational exclusion at a young age often results in people hitting back at society, particularly where reading difficulties are involved.
I agree completely with Deputy Timmons's comments. It is all very well to constantly focus on the response to crime and confronting crime but there also has to be another approach based on tackling the causes of crime. Those causes are manifold, as the Deputy will appreciate, and educational under-performance and drop-out are part of that. This Government and the last Government have put together a new statutory framework for the provision of education to vulnerable young people, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds. I believe that will have a positive impact in future in addressing deprivation, marginalisation and the drug culture. These this are mutually reinforcing factors – especially in certain urban areas – which tend to suck vulnerable young males, in particular, into criminality. I agree implication in the with the Deputy's question that we must, if possible, avoid incarceration where other methods may be used.
I agree with that.
Youth diversion programmes are the way forward and I intend, as far as resources permit, to promote their use.
Would the Minister agree that the fact that there are too many pubs in certain areas contributes to late night violence and that our antiquated licensing laws are killing off traditional town and village pubs by allowing them to double and treble in size while simultaneously preventing the opening of pubs in the newer suburbs? Would he agree that an updating of the licensing legislation is an important part of the task of combating the late night violence which occurs in certain areas?
I agree with my colleagues that the issue of late night drinking and problems in towns and villages is out of hand and that it is vital to have front-line staff, namely, gardaí, out on the beat. It may have been last minute cutbacks – designed to make the figures look good – that resulted in a lack of gardaí on our streets, but it is important that people are able to live in their peacefully homes. Will the Minister employ civilian staff in order to release front-line staff on to the beat to make sure that people can walk the streets? He has already admitted that, in light of financial difficulties, it will be difficult to proceed with the plan to put 2,000 extra gardaí on the streets.
Does the Minister agree that the current position vis-à-vis crime is extremely serious? Will he inform the Cabinet that urgent action is needed because people are afraid in their homes and in the streets? People are being attacked, robbed, raped and killed. What does the Government propose to do about this?
I agree with Deputy Stanton's view that the current figures are disappointing and a matter for great concern. However, we must also deal with the causes of crime.
Deputy Crawford inquired about civilianisation and releasing gardaí on to the beat. I dealt with that matter earlier, but I am agree with the Deputy in respect of it.
I agree with Deputy Cuffe that if the present licensing system is conducive to the establishment of super pubs, the capacity of the management of those establishments to control the sale of alcohol on their premises and maintain a reasonable level of sobriety among their customers is hugely impaired. I have spoken about the need to have a licensing law which does not slowly eliminate smaller pubs and replace them with larger ones. At present, it is a serious criminal offence for any publican to serve alcohol to any person, young or old, to the extent of making them drunk. The time has come for that to be brought home to publicans. They must be made aware that they cannot just shovel out drink and, if they do so, they will end up in court.
