Vol. 564 No. 5
14 Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Finance the proposals the Government has for decentralisation, following the publication of the national spatial strategy; when specific decisions will be made with regard to locations and the offices or bodies to be decentralised; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9731/03]
32 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Finance his plans to make a decision on the decentra lisation of Government offices in the near future; if the ISDN proposal which includes a joint application from Listowel, Kilrush and Newcastle West will be successful; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9565/03]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 32 together.
The Government is committed to moving forward the progressive decentralisation of Government offices and agencies taking the national spatial strategy into account. The decentralisation issue will be reviewed in light of recent developments relating to the spatial strategy. In addition, other matters which will impact on the success of a new decentralisation programme are under consideration. It is vital that all involved are consulted, be they staff concerned about their future or departmental management concerned about the delivery of the public services for which they have responsibility.
Given these wide-ranging considerations, it is not possible for me to state at this time when the Government will be in a position to take a decision on the issue of decentralisation. Deputies may be assured that all of the submissions and representations which have been received by my Department, including those received on behalf of Listowel, Kilrush and Newcastle West, will be taken into account as part of the deliberative process.
Is the Minister aware that the promise to decentralise 10,000 Civil Service jobs from Dublin was first made in 1998? This is another promise, on which the Government has delivered nothing. Now that the national spatial strategy has been published, will the Minister inform the House when action will be taken or will the Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats parties wait until the next election to make another round of promises? Do they believe they can fool some of the people in the towns the Minister mentioned, all of the time? No action, except reviews and ongoing studies, has been taken while, at the same time, Dublin grows apace. The city is choked with traffic and people are unable to move around it while towns around the country are crying out for decentralisation. Is the Minister also aware that some of the decentralisation projects are now referred to as PPs – pet projects on which Ministers can play to their constituencies – rather than thought-out programmes?
Again, I remind the House of the one minute time limit on questions and replies.
Given that a number of budgets have been passed since the commitment on decentralisation was given, it could hardly be deemed to have been an election promise in the run-up to an election. It has taken considerable time to have the matter concluded, primarily due to the fact that more than 120 urban centres decided to pitch for Government offices or agencies. We have received large numbers of representations on the issue, which stirred up a considerable degree of interest. The matter is desirous of close consideration.
Apart from these factors, staff must be consulted. Decisions must be based on a consideration of all the issues I have outlined. I hope, I will dispose of the matter well before the next general election.
The issue of decentralisation has caused great hurt in many areas. For instance, there were hopes in the Border region of Cavan-Monaghan that under the Good Friday Agreement it would benefit from becoming the location of a sizeable decentralisation project or cross-Border offices, of which one of the major ones has been located in Cork. There are some 60 young people from Clones, a town which recently lost 140 jobs, in the gallery today. Will the Minister give a commitment that the Border region will benefit from decentralisation?
Our Taoiseach and two very important persons are meeting in Hillsborough today. On paper, there seems to be a major commitment to the Border region, both North and South. The young people in attendance today want answers. They want jobs and decentralisation is one way of providing guaranteed employment in Clones and the Border region.
The facts to which Deputy Crawford refers will be taken into account. As I pointed out previously, I have gone to great pains not to exclude or include particular areas or draw up criteria that would include or exclude a particular area. I will certainly bear those matters in mind when the Government makes decisions about decentralisation to the Border region. I am conscious of the needs of the region, having shared an office for ten years with former Deputy, Jimmy Leonard, from Smithboro. I know more about areas of Monaghan than I do about other parts of the country.
Clones is still waiting.
I am aware of the Clones area, in particular, given that former Deputy, Jimmy Leonard, came from Smithboro, which is not far from there.
Is there a need for consistency in the spate of reports to Government on infrastructure in terms of combining them with the national spatial strategy? The strategy referred to certain towns becoming hubs and gateways, yet other studies, for instance, on the prioritisation of the roads programme under the national development plan and the strategic rail review published last week, make different comments about towns in various parts of the country. If a decentralis ation programme is undertaken, where will be the consistency to make sure all these components are equal and the programme can be progressed as quickly as possible?
My specific area of responsibility relates to the question of decentralisation and, in conjunction with my Government colleagues, I hope to finalise the programme in the very near future. Other aspects of Government policy will certainly have a bearing on decisions regarding decentralisation but they will not be the decisive criteria in decision-making on decentralisation.
Does the Minister agree the national spatial strategy has been contradicted by the strategic rail review, which was published last week? The rail review will not provide the network for the hubs, spokes and necklaces mentioned in the national spatial strategy. What system is in place to ensure the various departmental plans will build on the strategy? All Ministers are washing their hands by engaging expensive consultancy reports that produce proposals, which do not relate to the strategy at all. Someone needs to take the strategy by the scruff of the neck and drive it. Will it be the Minister or another specified Minister?
The national spatial strategy is primarily the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. The deliberative process on the strategy was conducted by his Department and, therefore, questions on it should be put, in the first instance, to him.
I accept these consultants' reports are expensive. Perhaps when Deputy Bruton and I leave the House, we can buy ourselves a word processor and produce many reports at enormous fees. We would make a much better living than we would in the House. A great deal of good can come out of consultants' reports but they are quite expensive. If one pays for expensive reports, one should make good use of them.
The Deputy referred to the implementation of the national rail strategy in conjunction with the national spatial strategy. He should put those questions to my colleagues, the Ministers for Transport and for the Environment and Local Government.
Is the Minister for Transport the man with unrealistic plans?
I am shocked that the Minister said there are no criteria for the selection of areas and towns—
I said there are no exclusive criteria. There is a number of criteria.
The Minister is saying the strategic rail review, the national spatial strategy and the various expensive consultants' reports do not necessarily have an input into his selection of areas for decentralisation. He received 1,000 submissions but if there are no criteria to determine which towns are selected, does he feel all those towns that went to the expense of commissioning consultants' reports in a bid to attract a Government office deserve to be treated with respect by being told what criteria the Government will use to draw up the list of towns for decentralisation?
I said there is no exclusive list of criteria and since the announcement regarding decentralisation was first made I have been at pains to exclude any area or set out a list of qualifying criteria and give weightings to them.
Is the Minister saying there is a secret list?
There is no list, secret or otherwise. Deputy Crawford made a good point regarding why certain parts of his county should be included because they lacked economic and regional development and an even spread of public service jobs. The national spatial strategy, the strategic rail review, the proximity of third level educational facilities and access to Dublin will be taken into account and, most importantly, we do not want diminish effective administration. All these factors will be taken into account.
It will not be like the changes made by the previous Government, of which Deputy Burton was a member, which woke up one morning and happened to put big slices of the Departments of Agriculture and Food and the Environment and Local Government in Wexford. It was no coincidence that the Ministers for Agriculture and Food and the Environment and Local Government were from Wexford. That would never happen on my side.
Did something happen in Clane?
That concerned three people and the first I heard about it was when it was announced by somebody else.
What is in Kildare?
Nothing.
The Minister should go to Westmanstown, outside Lucan.
All Government agencies want to relocate to Dublin or from Dublin to Meath, Kildare or Wicklow. This is the difficulty.
The Minister expressed admiration for the proposal put forward by Listowel, Kilrush and Newcastle West.
I mentioned them in my reply.
He complimented the group who made the proposal on the quality of its bro chure. If he takes issues such as unemployment, population loss and job losses into account when making decisions on decentralisation, Listowel should come strongly into the reckoning because the town has lost 600 jobs over the past five years. The recently published preliminary census report highlighted that Listowel was the only area in Kerry that suffered a loss in population and one of the few towns in the country to do so. Will the Minister give favourable consideration to the innovative proposal made by these three towns when he makes a decision?
The joint submission on behalf of Listowel, Kilrush and Newcastle West was of a high standard and I will certainly give it the consideration requested by Deputy Deenihan as I will in regard to the inclusion of other areas for decentralisation. The Deputy referred to criteria for that area but he should have a chat with Deputy Boyle to ascertain whether they will coincide with the criteria he requested for consideration in making such decisions. I hope we will be able to dispose of these matters in the near future.
