Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

The Order of Business today shall be No. 12, motion re Ministerial Rota for Parliamentary Questions; and No. 1, Opticians (Amendment) Bill 2002 [Seanad] – Second Stage.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 12 shall be decided without debate; the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 12.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 14 May, 2003, and the sitting shall not be suspended from 1.30 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. Private Members' Business shall be No. 34, motion re Decentralisation.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the Adjournment of the Dáil today agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 12 without debate agreed to? Agreed. I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

When I was a child a famous song in the west began with the words, "It's just a year ago today". Does the Taoiseach recall 13 May 2002 and a letter sent on his Government's instructions to the then leader of this party, Deputy Noonan, to the effect that no significant overruns were projected and no cutbacks were planned in secret or otherwise?

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy Kenny, that might be more appropriate for a Leader's Question but it is not appropriate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

Under the Money Advice and Budgeting Service Bill 2002 in view of the cutbacks in health, education, roads, Garda overtime and so on—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy can ask about a Bill. We cannot discuss the contents of the Bill on the Order of Business.

Mr. Durkan

Let the Taoiseach answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

On the legislation, Taoiseach. It is appropriate to ask about the legislation at this stage of the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

—will the Taoiseach now take the opportunity, one year into his second term in Government, to say this is one of the most despicable con jobs ever perpetrated on the electorate?

An Ceann Comhairle

On the legislation, Taoiseach.

Mr. M. Smith

Some 58,000 houses built.

Mr. Kenny

The Minister went to Littleton school, spoke to all the people there, and it is not being done until 2007.

Mr. Durkan

Another broken promise.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Minister for Defence, I ask you not to interrupt and allow the Taoiseach to answer Deputy Kenny's question on legislation. Minister for Defence, please. Deputy Kenny must not allow himself to be provoked by the Minister for Defence. He should sit down and let the Taoiseach answer his question.

The Taoiseach

The Money Advice and Budgeting Service Bill will be debated in this House during this session.

Mr. Rabbitte

I am curious to know why the Ceann Comhairle did not act against the Minister, Deputy Smith. He was far more unruly than Deputy Allen was earlier today. Is there a reason for that? Is it different for Fianna Fáil?

An Ceann Comhairle

I did rule on him. Perhaps the Deputy did not hear me. The Deputy cannot challenge the ruling of the Chair.

Mr. Rabbitte

The left ear, sir—

An Ceann Comhairle

It appears to be.

Mr. Rabbitte

We will get it syringed out and see what we can do in future.

An Ceann Comhairle

Something appropriate to the Order of Business, Deputy.

Mr. Rabbitte

With regard to a copy of a letter I received yesterday, written by one of the Taoiseach's more eminent backbenchers, to the shop stewards committee in Comerama, relaying the decision of the Tánaiste to commit to making the redundancy payment Bill retrospective to cover their circumstances the Tánaiste accused me in the House last week of being wrong. If I am wrong, the Taoiseach's backbenchers are wrong.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, Deputy, that is not a matter appropriate to the Order of Business at this stage.

Mr. Rabbitte

In respect of the redundancy payments—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has put her rebuttal on the record, Deputy, and it is not appropriate to challenge it.

Mr. Rabbitte

It is not appropriate to challenge it?

Mr. Howlin

She simply denied it.

An Ceann Comhairle

On the redundancy payments Bill—

Mr. Rabbitte

She will have to get used to it, Sir, and so will you. It is appropriate.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to find another way of doing it.

Mr. Rabbitte

Deputy McGuinness is on record, as are the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Aylward, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, four or five SIPTU officials and a handful of shop stewards, yet the Ceann Comhairle tells me I am not entitled to challenge her rebuttal. Is he saying the Tánaiste is infallible?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is not entitled to challenge it at this Stage. He can only ask about the legislation. Allow the Taoiseach to reply.

The Taoiseach

The Bill will be taken in the House on Thursday.

Mr. Sargent

I am seeking promised legislation with regard to the trade justice campaign. A number of Bills are proposed under the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment but, in advance of the Government taking part in the World Trade Organisation talks in Mexico in September, a debate on that matter will have to be held in this session so the Government's position can be clearly set out. Although there is no promised legislation on the matter, will the Taoiseach indicate, given the importance of these talks, whether such a debate will be held?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the Whips.

Mr. Sargent

It is a matter for the Whips but it is also up to the Government to indicate whether the Whips will be wasting their time talking about it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Mr. Sargent

Is there any indication the Government will discuss this?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Given the call of the National Association for the Mentally Handicapped of Ireland for Ministers to stay away from the official opening of the Special Olympics, will the Taoiseach ensure that the disabilities Bill is expedited? Will he also explain the reason this Bill was one of the first mentioned by the Chief Whip in the programme of legislation but there is no publication date for it in the list of publication dates circulated to Members last week?

The Taoiseach

I dealt with this matter last week but perhaps Deputy Ó Caoláin was not here. It was decided, and there is substantial agreement on this, that we should deal with the education for persons with disabilities Bill first.

Mr. Neville

They are different Departments.

The Taoiseach

I am trying to be helpful. When that Bill is passed, we will proceed with the disabilities Bill.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Does the Taoiseach not realise that the Bill is urgently needed?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the content of the Bill.

Mr. Kenny

In this country there has always been a presumption of innocence until one is proven guilty. During Question Time today, Sir, you made a ruling in respect of Deputy Allen, who made an intervention in respect of the Taoiseach's reply.

An Ceann Comhairle

Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. Kenny

I wish to give you notice, Sir, that I intend to write to you and have this Standing Order changed so that if you make a decision to throw somebody out, that decision will be voted on immediately rather than have somebody deemed guilty until so proven or otherwise the following morning.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy writes to me, we will deal with the matter. However, it is up to the House to change the Standing Orders.

Mr. Kenny

It may have been your first day back in the House but you did appear to be rather tetchy today, a Cheann Chomhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

My understanding is that a change in Standing Orders must be done by the appropriate Dáil reform committee.

Mr. Kenny

I am giving you notice, Sir, of my intention to write to you to change this Standing Order.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair does not change Standing Orders.

Mr. Kenny

I understand that.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is entirely a matter for the House—

Mr. Kenny

I am giving notice of my intention to write to you, Sir, about the change in Standing Orders.

An Ceann Comhairle

—and the Chair will be only too pleased, as I have stated on many occasions, to implement the Standing Orders, whatever they are.

Mr. Kenny

That is the reason I will write to you, Sir, so that you will be fully aware of my intent.

Mr. Naughten

The Minister of State, Deputy Lenihan, told the House earlier this afternoon that there were no Garda station closures since the Government came into office six years ago. There is moss growing on many of the Garda stations in my constituency because they are unmanned. Deputy Finneran will be able to elaborate on their locations. They are closed in all but name throughout the country.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask a question appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Naughten

When will the Garda Síochána Bill be introduced? Will the Taoiseach ensure that the unmanned Garda stations are provided with resources?

Mr. Rabbitte

It is so bad, John McGahern is writing about it.

The Taoiseach

The heads of the Garda Síochána Bill are expected at the end of this month. The Bill will be drafted immediately afterwards.

Ms Shortall

There is a degree of public concern about the safety of taxis. Last January, when there was a series of sexual assaults involving taxi drivers, the Minister for Transport promised that a statutory regulator would be in place by this summer. There is no indication that the legislation this would require has been given priority. Why is that the case? There is a good deal of concern because this sector is unregulated at present. We urgently need a statutory regulator.

The Taoiseach

The heads of the taxi regulator Bill are being drafted. The Bill is urgent but—

Ms Shortall

Will we have it before the summer?

The Taoiseach

I am not sure. The regulator is in place in an acting capacity.

Mr. Naughten

The regulator has no powers.

Mr. Ring

Like this House.

Mr. Cregan

We have it on this side.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow Deputy Timmins to speak.

Mr. Timmins

The Taoiseach attended the Agricultural Consultants Association conference on Saturday and spoke quite well at it. Concern was expressed at the conference about the ongoing dispute in the Department of Agriculture and Food and the impact it is having on the industry, particularly with respect to food safety. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food to intervene in this dispute, which has gone on for several weeks? There seems to be complete inaction—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on food safety legislation.

Mr. Timmins

Could the Taoiseach also say when we can expect to see the land Bill?

The Taoiseach

It is hoped that the heads of the Bill will be brought to the Government for approval next month. The Bill was previously called the land commission Bill but the heads have been changed since then.

Mr. Timmins

Are there any plans to resolve the dispute?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Boyle.

Mr. Timmins

The Taoiseach is the Ronan O'Gara of this House. He would make a good outhalf, kicking things to touch.

Mr. Boyle

What is the status of the legislation programme with which we were presented during the past week? There are 112 Bills under section C. More than one in five of them carry the legend: "publication expected" or "not possible to indicate at this stage". This applies to all three Bills from the Department of Education and Science and 13 of the 25 Bills due from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. If this is to give us an indication of what legislation will come before the House and when, it spectacularly fails to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a statement. Has he a question?

Mr. Boyle

Will the Taoiseach or the Chief Whip give us a legislation programme that more accurately informs Members when these Bills are due to come before the House?

The Taoiseach

It is a fair question. The Whip has put the Bills to be dealt with in this session in section A. That programme is generally followed quite accurately, if not 100%. The other Bills are those to be dealt with in the lifetime of the programme and are spread out over a longer period. The Members know the Bills that will come before the House before the end of this session and have a good indication of what Bills will come forward in the second half of the year. Predicting any further into the future is too far.

Mr. Neville

The disabilities Bill is the responsibility of a different Department from that with responsibility for the education for persons with disabilities Bill, so both can be dealt with concurrently. The disabilities Bill required amendment. The basis of the Bill was published in the last session and withdrawn as it needed amendment. Why has it been postponed indefinitely? Is it an indication that it has been sent to the recycling bin?

An Ceann Comhairle

That question has been dealt with today.

Mr. Neville

No, the Bills in question involve two different Departments.

The Taoiseach

I answered this question at length last week and briefly today. Both Bills were put back last year. An enormous amount of consultation has taken place over the last year. It is the view of those who are authorities on this issue that the education for persons with disabilities Bill should be brought forward and passed first. There are many overlapping areas and many of the changes that have been made to the draft Bill of last year demonstrate that.

The work has not stopped on preparation of the disabilities Bill but the view is that the other Bill should be passed first. In many areas that will provide a framework for the ongoing work that is taking place on the disabilities Bill. It has not been put back to the long-term. As soon as the education for persons with disabilities Bill is dealt with, which we hope will be in this session, we will bring forward the other Bill. However, there are many overlapping areas. The points have been made by all the groups who took part in the consultations in the past five months on this issue.

Mr. Howlin

In light of the concern of which the Taoiseach and every Member of this House are aware, about the number of deaths and serious injuries that occurred on building sites last year can he, as Head of Government, explain why the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill is now listed on the revised schedule as not being available until the end of the year? I was assured it would be published and introduced in May and we are already in May. Given that a huge gathering of workers and trade Unionists outside this House demanded it, surely they deserve a better response than that.

The Taoiseach

It is not Question Time but I could answer that. However, the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Bill will be brought in later this year.

Mr. Howlin

Why has it slipped?

The Taoiseach

This Bill is only consolidating and updating the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act 1989 which well covers the issues of the construction industry.

Mr. Howlin

Why has it slipped?

An Ceann Comhairle

The question regarding the legislation has been answered.

Mr. Howlin

Can I ask a question, a Cheann Comhairle? There is little point in us asking about the date of legislation if there is no value in getting replies.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's question was answered. The Chair has no control over the answers.

Mr. Howlin

I am addressing the question to you, a Cheann Comhairle. You have a responsibility to every Member of the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has no responsibility for answers to questions either at Question Time or on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Ring.

Mr. Howlin

A Cheann Comhairle, if you would listen to me and let me pose a question to you. It is important that when we are given a commitment that legislation will be introduced in May, for example, and that does not prove to be an accurate answer in the House, surely there is some explanation warranted. Is that not your job?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair has no control over the accuracy of answers in the House or over the answers in the House.

Mr. Howlin

In other parliaments it is taken seriously.

Mr. Ring

Thousands of people are waiting to sit driving tests. The Government promised a number of months ago that it was going to get the existing staff to work Saturday and Sunday and even some overtime. However, there has been no agreement within the Department. What is the up-to-date position in this regard? What is happening? People are losing jobs because they cannot sit their driving tests.

An Ceann Comhairle

What legislation is the Deputy raising?

Mr. Ring

The Bill to which I wish to refer is the driving test agency Bill. So this is in order.

Mr. Durkan

When was that legislation last seen?

The Taoiseach

There are 40 sections in the legislation. Heads are being drafted. The Bill is expected in the autumn and it will be next year before the legislation is passed.

Ms Shortall

There are half a million people driving on provisional licences.

Mr. Morgan

In view of the nonsensical claims by the Minister of State with responsibility for housing, Deputy Noel Ahern, that rent in the private sector is coming down, and the questionable commitment of the Government to tackling the crisis in the private rented sector, when will the residential tenancies Bill be coming before the House?

The Taoiseach

It will be published this month.

Ms McManus

The legislative programme includes a Bill that we passed last year – the Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill. It has to be reintroduced in the House or repealed and re-enacted because of Government incompetence and the failure to carry through proper process regarding the EU. When are we going to see this Bill in the House so that we can ensure there are safeguards, particularly to protect young people against cigarette smoking?

The Taoiseach

This legislation should be in the House in the autumn.

Mr. Crawford

Is the Taoiseach aware that thousands of farmers are waiting on REPS payments, overdue grants and many other payments and will he give this House an opportunity to have a full debate on agriculture at the earliest possible time?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a matter for the Whips.

Mr. Crawford

The Taoiseach can order the Whips to do that and it is vital that this issue be properly discussed.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. Crawford

It is extremely appropriate.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should allow his colleague, Deputy Richard Bruton, to speak.

Mr. Connolly

It is appropriate. The Department of Agriculture and Food is a sham.

Mr. Crawford

It is appropriate. Things are breaking down all over the place.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not appropriate to the Order of Business. If the Deputy wishes to submit a question to the Minister for Agriculture and Food—.

Mr. Crawford

We have done that umpteen times. It is a waste of time asking questions.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should allow his colleague to submit his question.

Mr. R. Bruton

The Deputies are making valid points. I am quite happy to allow them to make those points.

An Ceann Comhairle

They have to find the right forum in which to make them.

Mr. R. Bruton

Indeed. I would like to ask the Taoiseach about what I think he is calling the health and social care professionals regulatory Bill. This is about bringing quality care to the public. How can the Taoiseach be devoting the parliamentary draftsman's time to this Bill when Government cutbacks have speech therapy waiting three years, orthodontic services waiting four years, disabled persons grants in every county being abandoned?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot discuss the content of the Bill.

Mr. R. Bruton

The lack of quality care has nothing to do with regulating the professionals.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.

The Taoiseach

The health and social care professionals regulatory Bill will be published in this session.

Mr. Sherlock

Will the Taoiseach tell the House whether it is the intention of Government to bring in the ground rents Bill? If the answer is in the affirmative why is it taking so long for his legal department to scrutinise this Bill and to allow it to be presented?

The Taoiseach

I do not know the answer to that question, to be honest. There has been a long debate with the legal people. Some of them believe we can do it a certain way, others disagree.

Mr. Howlin

The Taoiseach has no intention of bringing in any legislation.

Mr. Kehoe

There is no point in asking the Taoiseach anything.

Mr. Rabbitte

What does Deputy Woods think of it?

The Taoiseach

He still believes we can do it.

Mr. Rabbitte

Bring him back. The Taoiseach needs a young man in there.

Mr. Kehoe

It is great to hear the Taoiseach telling the truth about something because he does not know the answer to any question. In regard to the closures in the Wexford County Hospital in the past week in the accident and emergency department, the maternity unit and the striking ambulance drivers—

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 13 May 2003

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 May 2003