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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 13 May 2003

Vol. 566 No. 3

Private Members' Business. - Decentralisation Programme: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann condemns the Government for:

– its failure to fulfil its plans to decentralise 10,000 civil servants announced in 1999 from Dublin; and

– its failure to develop a comprehensive plan to decentralise Government Departments in a manner which is consistent, and achieves coherence, with the national development plan, the national spatial strategy and sectoral plans such as the strategic rail review;

– notes that these failures are symptomatic of a general failure by this Government to deliver joined up Government which effectively delivers strategies which will provide urgent relief to the daily level of chronic congestion suffered in Dublin and which will promote balanced regional development; and

– calls on the Government to outline:

– its strategy on the decentralisation of Government Departments;

– the criteria on which decisions on decentralisation will be based;

– how it will ensure that these criteria are fair and open and immune from politically driven opportunism;

– to what extent the cities and towns named as gateway and hub towns in the national spatial strategy plan will be given priority in any new decentralisation plan; and

– a specific timeframe for the implementation of its decentralisation proposals.

I wish to share my time with Deputies Naughten, Hayes and Deenihan.

Is that agreed? Agreed.

This Fine Gael Private Members' motion is the only opportunity afforded to the Members of this Dáil to contribute to a debate on the national spatial strategy, decentralisation of Government Departments and other related matters. It provides an opportunity to test how the Government intends to implement the policies already announced and how it has reneged on its commitments since it took office one year ago and over the longer period of its previous five years in Government.

A number of basic factual points need to be addressed at the outset. The 2002 census of population shows that there are 3,917,336 persons living in Ireland now, compared to 3,626,087 in 1996. This is an 8% increase in six years. While the census report shows that the population in Dublin increased at a lower rate than the national average, there was an explosion in the commuter belt serving Dublin. The Lucan-Esker area trebled its population and there was a 61.9% increase in the population of the Blanchardstown-Blakestown area. Castleknock, Swords, Tallaght, Glencullen and Firhouse village experienced dramatic population increases in that six years. However, there was a 20% or more increase in population since 1996 in counties Kildare and Meath. Westmeath's population increased by 13.8% and Wexford's by 11.7% while the populations of Laois, Louth and Carlow also increased substantially, reflecting a widening of the Dublin commuter belt beyond Meath, Kildare and Wicklow.

It is now estimated that more than 2.2 million people reside in what could be described as the Dublin commuter belt on the east coast. However, the 2002 census shows that the population decreased in several district electoral divisions of the Glenamaddy rural area of County Galway. Ballinakill lost 14% of its population between 1996 and 2002 while in the same area, Kiltullagh lost 6.2%, Templetogher lost 14% and Shankill lost 7.9%. These figures clearly show a huge imbalance of population. Even if there were a static national population base over the next six years, the normal growth dynamic of a population of that size would ensure a continual steady rise in population on the east coast. For all other regions, with the possible exception of Galway city, no such dynamic is at work. Unless sensible, workable, well researched strategies are put in place, therefore, there will be an even bigger widening of the gap in the population structure in six years' time.

It is interesting to note that while all counties experienced inward migration between 1996 and 2002 it was again the counties of Meath, Kildare, Westmeath, Wexford and Laois that showed the biggest increases. In other words, these are the real growth areas for population increases and no doubt such huge increases in population contribute to the chaos that is Dublin city traffic. Ireland is regarded as one of the most centralised countries in Europe with no country with a similar population having so great a population residing in such a concentrated area. Can anything be done to slow down the population increase on the east coast and, at the same time, breathe new life and vitality into the regions, irrespective of how far away they are from Dublin?

The feeble efforts of Fianna Fáil over the past 20 years have certainly not been successful. This country, for example, did not have a spatial strategy debate from 1966 until this year when the Government announced its gateway and hub towns. These, we are told, will receive priority infrastructural investment together with industrial development, housing and the other amenities needed to grow a population centre. What does the Government have in mind for decentralisation of Government Departments? I consistently ask both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste in the Dáil when this decision will be announced. I constantly get "in the near future" as a reply.

I believe a war is taking place inside the Cabinet, with Ministers obviously sulking in the knowledge that their county towns may be omitted. Certainly, the Government backbenchers are on overtime. I call on the Government to produce a blueprint for decentralisation providing the public with clear, unambiguous, transparent eligibility guidelines on which towns, cities and regions may be entitled to get a decentralised Government Department. I ask the Minister to outline how many Departments he has in mind for decentralisation and what sort of negotiations he has had with the various unions involved about this so-called major transfer of civil servants from Dublin to the country. The Tánaiste informed me at a meeting in her Department some months ago that gateway or hub towns already identified in the national spatial strategy plan would not get a decentralised Government Department.

This Government and its predecessor were clearly Dublin-orientated in that the vast bulk of the infrastructural investment in roads, railways and transport went to the capital city. It is true that all areas benefited from the Celtic tiger but a few examples show how the areas outside the Dublin commuter belt were left out in the cold. Take, for example, the National Roads Authority allocations to local authorities for 2003. The schemes are the N1 in Dundalk, the Carrickmacross bypass, the Kilcock bypass, the Monasterevin bypass, the Naas Road, the Cashel bypass and the Waterford city bypass. Only one of them is in the BMW area. There appears to be more trouble in store for areas in the west and north-west where grandiose preferred road routes have been identified. These projects are dropping fast to the back of the queue. Look at the National Development Plan 2000-2006. It now appears that the projects situated far from Dublin will not be completed until 2016, possibly ten years later than planned.

We are told that the financing of the Dublin Port tunnel, when completed, will have major implications for other schemes in the country in that there may well be more money available for projects outside Dublin. However, will there be sufficient funding for those projects even then? It seems to be a fait accompli that public-private partnerships will be established to build most of the motorways. The higher the volume of cars going through the toll plazas, the more profit they will make and the nearer they are to Dublin, the better the profit will be. Should private enterprise not be interested in road building, many parts of the country such as Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo, Leitrim and parts of Galway may be shunted to one side and their roads may never be completed.

I want to take the opportunity to give a balanced overview of where people work and live, and how they get to their work; how one part of the country is overcrowded and the remainder is sparsely populated and starved of infrastructural development. In many cases the population base is so fragile that the ratio of births to deaths is a negative factor. For a national spatial strategy to work properly it must address all the factors that influenced the huge unmanaged growth in Dublin and on the east coast. At the same time in complementary terms it must provide a framework, a vision, an energy and an enthusiasm to introduce strategies to stabilise decreasing populations and to plan for viable towns and cities to counterbalance the growth of the east coast.

For daily commuters travelling long or short distances to work in this city every day, their only hope lies in a combination of better transport access by road, whether by bus or private car, rail, Luas, using park and ride facilities and then by the relocation of the 10,000 existing commuters away from the city to different centres around the country. This Government is in flagrant breach of a solemn commitment given before the last general election by the Minister for Finance who stated that 10,000 civil servants would be relocated. Deputy Harney told me on several occasions in this House that an announcement to this effect was imminent.

What would 10,000 civil servants relocated from Dublin mean for Dublin? Everybody knows what it would mean for the regions. In Dublin the Minister refers to three Luas systems being cleared in one swoop and said it takes 165 buses morning and evening, with 60 people in each, to convey those 10,000 commuters to their work in Dublin every day. The Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, aired the decentralisation theme at their party's annual conference a few weeks ago. The Minister told worried community leaders and the 300 workers at the ill-fated Square D factory in Ballinasloe that the Government was urgently working on plans to decentralise Departments and that an announcement in their favour would be made shortly. That was three months ago but in his Dáil reply last week the Minister for Finance seems to have gone cold on the idea. He has to deal with a plethora of confrontations despite the fact that he has had since 1999 to do that.

I put it to the Minister for Defence that there is a serious row going on in the Cabinet. It is not able to agree where to send the civil servants because it does not have a blueprint for where they should go. When the Minister speaks in this debate I want him to refer to the 120 applications he has from cities, villages and towns made at great cost to themselves. They genuinely believed their best hope was to get some part of a decentralised Department. I put it to the Minister and his Government that they cannot slide out of this promise. They cannot blame, for instance, overseas investors who may or may not want to come to the BMW region. Right or wrong that is what the Minister says. The Minister is in control of the decentralisation programme. He said he was going to shift 10,000 civil servants. He has done almost nothing. The plan is stillborn and is not going to happen.

If the current demographic trends continue, even on a modest economic growth pattern, Ireland is likely to have 4.4 million people in 20 years or about 500,000 people more than at present. This will happen without any of the significant net migration into the country that we have experienced over the past four or five years. Parallel with this population increase we can expect an explosion in car ownership. It now looks as if the number of cars using our roads will double over the period to 2016. There were 1.1 million cars in 1996 and we are told there will be 2.2 million in 2016.

The Deputy is absolutely flying it.

Absolutely flying it but can the Minister say to where we are flying? That is the problem. We are flying into one another.

Please allow the Deputy to speak without interruption.

If not managed properly the demographic profile will make Ireland so lopsided that if the country were a boat it would sink. The strategies that will deliver quality housing at affordable prices, linked to reasonably accessible job centres, based on the ability of modern communications technology such as broadband and greater use of the commuter rail facilities, are now of paramount importance. Unfortunately this Government has done nothing, apart from get involved in slick public relations games on the spatial strategy and decentralisation. This Government has shown no willingness to do anything about this imbalance.

No Government in the past 20 years seems to have come to grips with the age old chestnut, in spatial policy terms, of whether the investment in infrastructure follows the population growth or whether new strategies are put in place to encourage people to come and live and work in certain areas. Contrary to what Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats are always saying, one of their senior Ministers, Deputy Ó Cuív, made a remarkable statement at a function I attended in Claremorris a week ago. He said that unless a Government got the imprimatur or blessing of people on the east coast and their representatives, it would not be possible to rethink our infrastructural development before a population increase in the west of Ireland. If that is the way our Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the rest of the Government think, God help the regions.

This Government is not leading. It is a Government of parts. Each Minister seems to have a hobbyhorse of his or her own and thereby denies the country any possibility of seeing the full picture at one time. That is missing on this issue. Fine Gael believes it is possible to achieve all the aims. It is important to have a vibrant Dublin as the shop window of Ireland for the world but not at the expense of the rest of the country. It is not a contest between the regions and Dublin. I hope that the Government will take this seriously for the sake of the 120 communities that feel let down because they do not see decentralisation coming. The Minister will have a lot of answering to do the next time he crosses the Shannon.

I compliment Deputy Connaughton on tabling this motion. Dublin city and the surrounding counties are bursting at the seams and being choked by traffic congestion. The Government's solution is to force people from cars into an inadequate and haphazard public transport system. This Government's ineptitude in tackling Dublin's traffic has reduced the average travel speed on some Dublin city routes to 5 km. per hour. That is slower than travelling by ass and cart a hundred years ago. The average car journey to the city now takes 57 minutes, that is up 25% since this Government took office. At present people are forced to commute 50 and 60 miles, or up to three hours every day to get to and from work. The gridlock in the capital is costing city businesses more than €650 million per annum. We need as a matter of urgency to take a new approach to the current rudderless situation and the lack of action since this Government and its predecessor took office just over six years ago. The abject personal failure of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, to expedite a solution to the escalating transport crisis in the Dublin area is a perfect example of the Government's gross inability to deliver projects.

We all remember the hype over Luas. Fianna Fáil and the Progressive Democrats promised, in the 1997 programme for Government, to re-energise it. The project is already late and well over budget, and it is now running a further three months behind schedule. The Red Cow interchange is a joke and will cause traffic chaos as soon as it commences operation. On top of that, plans have been put in place to provide a park-and-ride facility at Newlands Cross without including either an underpass or an overpass, meaning that everyone using it will have to cross over the southern side of the Naas dual carriageway.

The Government is confusing public relations with public life. It cannot differentiate between announcing a project and delivering on it. Grand schemes overshadow practical, inexpensive and short-term solutions. How can there be any balanced regional development given what is happening in Dublin? There is no organisation or co-ordination. However, people will continue to locate in Dublin and the surrounding counties, and resources will have to be made available to provide schools, hospitals, roads and other infrastructure because of the demand. The problem is that if the members of the Government are going around like headless chickens trying to manage what is happening in the capital, how can they show leadership on regional development?

The following is typical of e-mails which I received recently regarding the Adamstown development in west Dublin. A constituent complained of trouble getting out of the estate in the morning, never mind getting off the M4, and asked what would happen when there were an extra 20,000 cars trying to get on to it. There is a railway line about 400 yards from that estate, but it is not much good because there is no station. Why has no station been built for Lucan? Does the population have to be over 100,000 before we see action? Dublin city needs decentralisation and regional development more than anywhere else. Congestion will never be resolved if we do not ease pressure by removing demand from the capital's infrastructure. New roads, rail and bus services are vitally important but can only help alleviate the misery rather than resolve the fundamental problem. In conjunction with those developments, we must provide regional development which will bring balance to the growth of recent years.

The State must assist the growth of regional centres by deliberately assisting the development of basic infrastructure and lifestyle-enhancing facilities in those centres, which will assist in attracting people to them. If we are not proactive in spreading such facilities around the country, our capital city will slowly choke to death. To achieve that, we must address the infrastructural deficit outside the capital and take a proactive approach to decentralisation. The Government has no desire to improve infrastructure in the regions and it is pursuing a laissez-faire policy on decentralisation. It keeps promising but does not deliver.

The railway system should be deliberately chosen by the Government as the primary artery for national development. However, if we look at the Government-commissioned strategic rail review, we see that it has no plans to enhance the rail network. The most basic errors are blatantly obvious in the report, yet the Minister did not have it redrafted. It completely contradicts the Government's spatial strategy, which is evidently not worth the paper it is written on when compared with the strategic rail review. The western rail corridor is shelved, even though it would link Sligo, Ballina, Castlebar, Tuam, Galway, Ennis, Shannon, Limerick and Cork. The Government has shelved the rail link between Mullingar, Athlone and Tullamore, yet the sole purpose of the strategic rail review was to review the feasibility of that link when the then Minister, Senator O'Rourke, announced it. The strategic rail review is nothing more than "Pale rail". All the new developments are into and around Dublin except for one project, starkly contradicting what is stated in black and white in the spatial strategy, yet it was not redrafted by the Minister.

The Minister for Transport stated that he was disappointed with the rail report, which he felt was not ambitious enough, but he did not have it redrafted. The Department of Transport's position is that the strategic rail review is not cast in stone but is its broad policy view. The Department does not believe that the rail report is at variance with the spatial strategy. As Deputy Connaughton pointed out, the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs came out with the most astonishing comment regarding the strategic rail review, that it could only be changed to include projects such as the western rail corridor or the link between the three midland towns of Mullingar, Athlone and Tullamore with the approval of the people of the east coast and their representatives.

If we examine the Government amendment before us tonight, we see that it "commends the Government for its careful consideration of the many and varied factors which it must examine in order to fulfil the commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government to move forward the progressive decentralisation of Government offices and agencies, taking account of the national spatial strategy." Is there careful consideration? In fairness, members of the Government are taking careful consideration, of their own political necks, and ensuring that this matter is shelved again until after the next election. The Government claims to be taking account of the national spatial strategy. The designation of a hub town is about as important as a hub cap on the side of the road.

The national spatial strategy itself is nothing more than a headline-grabbing sham, and the Government has treated rural Ireland with contempt. For example, the midlands triangle of Mullingar, Athlone and Tullamore does not even have a decent road to connect the three towns, and the National Roads Authority has stated that there is no funding available to develop such national secondary roads. Another hub, Ballina and Castlebar, has a first-class rail line connecting the two towns, but no train service and no plans to provide such a service. The strategy proposes to develop Sligo, Galway, Ennis, Shannon and Limerick, yet, after its publication, the Minister for Transport gave Iarnród Éireann the green light to pull up the line.

Let us examine the national development plan, which is designed to provide modern Ireland with the infrastructure it needs. Of the 34 road projects planned for this year, only 12 are starting. The Minister for Transport has shelved even the new motorways servicing some of the new hubs for another three years. The amendment looks more like "Comical Ali" tabled it rather than the Minister for Finance. Services provided by the Government must be decentralised in conjunction with the development of top-grade broadband telecommunications. As part of that process, we want to see entire Departments move out of Dublin.

While the Government is talking the talk and the Tánaiste is promising decentralisation to towns as if it were snuff at a wake, it seems the Government is more interested in the cost of decentralisation and the provision of infrastructure than the benefits they will bring. Over 18,000 applications are with various Departments from civil servants who wish to transfer out of the capital. However, three and a half years after the Government's 1999 decentralisation pledge, it is still sitting on the fence. The applications are well in excess of the 10,000 sought by the Government. It is a further example of a Government which cannot distinguish between delivery and commitment in its promises. Relocating 10,000 workers from Dublin to towns outside the capital would benefit both the capital and the regional towns. It would help reduce the pressure on traffic and house prices in Dublin and bring jobs and investment to other locations as well as stimulating further investment in them.

The most farcical example of the Government's commitment to decentralisation was the announcement by the then Taoiseach and leader of Fianna Fáil before the 1992 general election of the decentralisation of the General Registry Office to Roscommon town. Over ten years later, we still await publication of legislation which would allow the transfer. There have been 2,317 applications from civil servants based in Dublin to relocate to County Roscommon and surrounding towns, but, yet again, the Government continues to drag out the process. The Government's failure to deliver on that plan is consistent with the lack of connectivity shown between the national development plan, the spatial strategy and the strategic rail review. If one examined the three, one would think that they had been produced by three different Governments in three different parts of the world because they do not tally. It is typical of Government policy regarding the development of the regions. I commend the motion to the House.

Last Wednesday, members of South Dublin County Council voted to approve development plans for Abbotstown beside Lucan, County Dublin. This development of 10,000 new houses will see up to 25,000 people move to the area directly adjacent to Ireland's fastest growing town. Not surprisingly, local residents are worried about the impact of such a large new development. The Minister should try sitting in a car for one or two hours a day travelling to and from work and he might appreciate the frustration involved. Try getting children into schools which are trying to cope with a local population explosion of the past five years. Try watching every piece of green space close to your home being turned into row after row of new housing. Add another 25,000 people to the mix and see the local services stretch to breaking point.

Future generations will condemn the Government for its abject failure to develop certain parts of the country while presiding over an expansion of Dublin that is unplanned, unfocused and uncontrolled. The Government has failed entirely to capitalise on the fact that sensible and constructive decentralisation would act as a pressure release valve for Dublin city while also bringing much needed investment jobs to many other parts of the country. In short, decentralisation is good for Dublin and for the regions.

Almost four years ago, in December 1999, the Minister for Finance announced that 10,000 civil servants were to move out of Dublin in a large-scale decentralisation programme that would see half the Civil Service based outside the capital. The Minister wrote to his Cabinet colleagues in an attempt to ascertain which offices were most suitable for decentralisation but then allowed the scheme to go off the boil. The decision on which Departments should be moved was postponed until summer 2000, then until autumn of the same year and then put off for the foreseeable future. There are many ways in which the Government has squandered the vast resources it has had at its fingertips in recent years. Even more depressing is the total failure to capitalise upon the huge benefits that would accrue from sensible, well-planned decentralisation.

Decentralisation offers the Government a key approach to tackling urban development and urban sprawl at the same time. We all know of the severe pressures that our capital city is under at present with regard to housing, rail and public bus transport services, park and ride facilities, the availability of serviced lands for development and the availability of schools and health care services. Many communities are crying out for the shot in the arm that decentralisation represents.

On paper Ireland has experienced a booming economy in recent years, but we all know that the fruits of this boom did not reach all parts of the country equally. In parts of my constituency, for example, average disposable income is almost 15% lower than the national average. Tipperary town was given a commitment in regard to decentralisation not once, not twice but three times in three consecutive elections, not by ordinary Deputies or county councillors but by Ministers. What has happened in my constituency, a county that has never experienced decentralisation, is deplorable. Given the drop in income that Tipperary has experienced because of serious unemployment problems, it is disgraceful that the Government did not see fit to decentralise offices there. I rest my case.

Spatial strategy here exists only on paper. As a Deputy representing a rural constituency on the western seaboard, I observe every day the concentration of investment in Dublin and on the eastern seaboard, and the total neglect of the west in terms of basic infrastructure such as roads, broadband provision, sewage treatment and a quality rail system.

I would like to refer specifically to decentralisation and especially to a proposal by the three towns of Kilrush, Listowel and Newcastle West, otherwise known as the ISDN proposal, the integrated Shannon decentralisation network. The integrated Shannon decentralisation network was established by the local authorities and community councils of the towns of Kilrush, Listowel and Newcastle West with the support and assistance of Shannon Development to promote and advance the concept of decentralisation of a Department to their towns. The proposal is based on the Government's stated preferred intention to decentralise Departments in their entirety rather than on a piecemeal basis. This proposal forms part of the three individual submissions already made by the towns involved.

The ISDN offers the Government the opportunity to decentralise one entire Department to three medium-sized towns in a region that is on the periphery of the west. It offers an opportunity for civil servants to follow a career path within their Department as all three towns are within commuting distance. It facilitates the Government spatial strategy as outlined in the national plan. It will facilitate partnership between communities, local authorities and agencies in line with Government policy. It will provide civil servants with a broader choice and improved quality of life and help to kick-start development in three locations that would enhance and improve future prospects at those locations.

The three towns in question have a wide and varied range of associations, activities and facilities related to theatre, entertainment and sport. In addition, there has in recent years been a substantial increase in the number and variety of good quality restaurants in the environs of each town. The towns of Kilrush, Listowel and Newcastle West have been brought together by Shannon Development to provide a creative and unusual solution to Government to promote peripheral development in a most effective way to the advantage of all. The proposal is cross-boundary, cross-constituency and cross-party. It has brought together local authorities, community councils, Oireachtas Members and Shannon Development in co-operation and partnership in a way not previously experienced. I have recommended this proposal in the past to the Minister for Finance and he has expressed his admiration of the project in the Dáil on a number of occasions. It is time he acted.

I would like to refer specifically to Listowel, my home town. Census figures show a decline in population in Listowel of 2.8%, from 19,275 in 1996 to 18,735 in 2002. It is one of the few rural areas in the country to show a decline in population. That is a very strong reason Listowel should be recognised for decentralisation. The live register figures for September 2001 to September 2002 show an increase of 8% and recent live register figures show a further increase. In relation to household disposable income per head in 2000, according to figures recently released by the Central Statistics Office, Kerry is fourth from the bottom of the league table. Below Kerry are Offaly, Donegal and Laois. The figure for Kerry is 84.9%. It is now 23rd in the league table. Kerry, especially places like Listowel, is dying. It needs decentralisation immediately if it is to be revived. If the Government's spatial strategy is to have any credibility, places like Listowel and Kilrush should be identified immediately for help.

Recognising Deputy Connaughton's motion, what is needed in these areas across the country is positive action and preferential treatment, which they are not getting at present. The Government is posturing. It is feeding the people in these areas with plans and promises but it is not delivering. Every day I come to Dublin I see the differences between investment in Dublin, to which I have no objection. All we want on the western seaboard, in the midlands and across the country, is fair treatment. That is not what we are getting. I can say that as I represent a constituency that is dying on its knees because of lack of Government initiatives, lack of Government investment and lack of Government recognition.

I hope we will hear from the Minister that the Government will not just act on promises, but that it will act on the ground and that we will see tangible results starting in the immediate future.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"commends the Government for its careful consideration of the many and varied factors which it must examine in order to fulfil the commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government to move forward the progressive decentralisation of Government offices and agencies, taking account of the national spatial strategy."

I wish to share my time with Deputies Fleming, Finneran and Cregan.

I apologise to the House for the absence of my colleague the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, who is in Brussels at an ECOFIN meeting. The Minister will be here tomorrow to contribute to this important debate.

I am particularly pleased to contribute to this debate given my long-standing support for the principle of decentralisation. In my constituency of Tipperary North, several sections of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners were relocated to Nenagh a number of years ago. These Government offices are now a well established feature of the town and their importance to the commercial life of the town and its hinterland cannot be underestimated. That programme of decentralisation had been promised by Fine Gael and the Labour Party some years earlier but was abandoned.

These decentralisation programmes have proved to be an outstanding success, not only for the locality and the community to which those transferring brought new vitality but, most importantly, for those who have benefited from the quality of life which they enjoy in north Tipperary. I look forward to similar benefits accruing to Roscrea following the relocation of the headquarters of the Civil Defence.

As an advocate for decentralisation I am convinced that a significant programme of decentralisation will be a win-win situation for all involved. It will make a contribution to lessening city centre congestion in Dublin and will be a statement of the Government's intent in this regard. It will be a significant boost to those centres to which Departments and offices will be relocated and beyond, as people choose to live in neighbouring towns and villages. It will bring economic benefit to the regions and, I hope, act as a powerful catalyst for further economic development in towns throughout the country.

In adopting the national spatial strategy, the Government re-affirmed its commitment to the objective of balanced regional development. Decentralisation can also contribute in this regard by strengthening the potential of towns selected for the location of Government and public agency offices to attract inward investment and enterprise development, in addition to the public service employment which is being relocated.

Notwithstanding the benefits for towns throughout the country, perhaps the greatest beneficiaries of decentralisation will be the individual members of staff. It will be a quality of life issue. For many it will be the end of the endless commuting grind that is coming into and out of Dublin city centre. Commuting times will be slashed and those living much closer to their workplace will suddenly find themselves with considerably more family time available to them. For those who have the opportunity to relocate in or close to their native areas, it may mean greater proximity to ageing parents and other family members.

It is important to emphasise the extent to which civil servants are already located outside Dublin. There are, at present, approximately 36,000 civil servants and 2,500 public servants in non-commercial State-sponsored bodies. Following the earlier decentralisation of Department and offices and the well-established presence of networks and regional and local offices of the Department of Agriculture and Food, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the Office of the Revenue Commissioners, there are now 14,000 civil servants located outside Dublin. Effectively almost 40% of the Civil Service already works in the provinces.

Given the increased sophistication of and dependence on information technology, I am satisfied there is no good reason the current concentration of civil and public servants in Dublin has to be maintained.

Furthermore, I believe there is sufficient interest among Dublin-based civil servants to ensure the success of a new and substantial programme of decentralisation.

I would caution, however, against putting too much store in the figures quoted by Fine Gael in its statement yesterday and again in the House this evening. It has been selective in the manner in which it has presented these figures and even Fine Gael must realise that the presentation of figures suggesting that in excess of 80% of the Dublin-based Civil Service is interested in relocating to provincial towns, is at least overly ambitious if not totally misleading. I know the Minister for Finance is conscious of the calls made upon him, and other members of the Government, to use the vehicle of decentralisation to address job losses in various parts of the country.

Like many others, I appreciate the concerns of Deputies in this regard but I know they will real realise there are a host of factors which will influence Government decisions on the issue. The process is not as simple as listing off a series of qualifying criteria against which the merits of the various towns can be measured. For Fine Gael to suggest otherwise is opportunistic and cynical.

I know what the merits will be.

In this debate the Deputy's contributors were seeking decentralisation to their own areas. As there are 43 constituencies that would give us an idea of where one is going.

I would like to add a word of caution to those who seem to see decentralisation as the answer to localised job losses. Decentralisation will not, of itself, create jobs in any locality. While I am certain that the establishment of a new Government office in any provincial town has the potential to act as an economic catalyst for that area, it ought not to be as the necessary solution to job losses. The issues are distinct and ought to be seen as such.

I am well aware of the many meritorious cases which have been made for inclusion in the new programme. I have come across several persuasive and compelling cases. While I know these will play their part in the decision-making process, I am also conscious that they are but one part of what will be an elaborate process.

It is only appropriate to acknowledge the quality of the submissions made by local interest groups throughout the country, be they local authorities, chambers of commerce, community associations, etc. Many of those I have seen are of a high standard and, quite apart from the issue of decentralisation, make an impressive case for private sector inward investment. I hope that the work and time which groups have invested in making the case for the relocation of Government offices can be harnessed after this process has been completed to continue to work to attract inward investment.

Fine Gael has issued two statements regarding decentralisation in the past two days and has added to those during this debate. The first does not have one constructive suggestion in it. It is typically condemnatory and takes no account of the work that has been done over the past few years. I am not sure just what it expects the Minister for Finance and the Government to do. It is right and proper that decisions of this significance are taken against the background of appropriate consultation. The Minister and his Department are to be commended for them diligence in ensuring that decisions of such significance are taken only after all of the implications are fully examined.

I have already said how I consider Fine Gael is being deliberately selective in its interpretation of figures derived from a recent series of parliamentary questions. Its survey was of 11 Departments and its conclusion was that over 18,000 Dublin-based civil servants had expressed an interest in transferring out of the capital. Had the survey been more complete and included large offices, such as the Office of the Revenue Commissioners, there would have been even more transfer applications. It may have been that there would have been more applications than there were civil servants in Dublin. Presumably at that stage the recommendation would have been made that the entire Civil Service be relocated out of Dublin.

That is a flippant response.

Anybody looking at these figures who has the slightest semblance of knowledge of the Civil Service knows that it is impossible to draw the conclusions made by Fine Gael. All of us, especially those of us who represent non-Dublin constituencies, are aware of the determination of some people working in Dublin to transfer back to the country. We all equally know that the determination of some is such that they would apply for any or all locations close to home. The inevitable conclusion, therefore, is that many of those expressing a wish to transfer will have made multiple transfer applications. Consequently, the number of applications has to be discounted by a significant factor. I cannot believe that the Fine Gael Party does not appreciate this and, therefore, I can only assume that it has presented the figures in a deliberately misleading way to suggest that in some way the Government is responsible for holding back a massive outflow of civil servants from Dublin to provincial Ireland.

I must also take issue with the by now tiresome suggestion that the Government has failed to deliver on its commitments. This is the first of a five year term and I challenge those on the other side of the House to sustain their arguments at the conclusion of our full term. The Government will shortly publish the first progress report of this Administration. Many of those accusing us of non-delivery will be surprised at the extent of progress made across every range of Government activity during our first year in office, notwithstanding a much more difficult economic climate.

Today the Fine Gael Party issued a second statement which asked if the Government has given decentralisation the elbow. It gives me great pleasure to assure Deputy Connaughton and his colleagues that we have not. The party's statement suggests that it has no appreciation of the complexity of determining the shape of a significant programme of decentralisation and less of an idea of how to implement it.

We all know of the population pressures on the eastern seaboard. While it may have escaped the notice of Members on the other side of the House, the Government has moved to address this issue through the publication of its national spatial strategy, to which full regard will be had in the decision-making process on a new programme of decentralisation. Deputy Connaughton and his colleagues should have no doubt about the Government's resolve to progress a new and substantial programme of decentralisation. When it is announced it will be a statement of the Government's intent to address the congestion issue in Dublin city.

I hope that when as a Government we prove our ability to deliver so many efficient and effective public services from various locations throughout the country, it will act as an encouragement to various private sector enterprises and that it will become apparent to them that it is not necessary, as they appear to think, to place such a high dependence on having a city centre presence in Dublin. Decentralisation is an integral part of the Government's commitment to balanced development. All of us who have seen the benefits it can bring to urban centres throughout the country will welcome the new programme, which will be substantial. Those on the opposite side of the House should be in no doubt about the Government's commitment in this regard. I commend the amendment.

I thank the Minister for sharing his time. This is a very important issue and it is also important that in the first year of its term, the Government study the process carefully with a view to making the right rather than quick decisions. I was surprised at the motion where the Fine Gael Party calls for exact criteria, rules, regulations and formulae by which decentralisation can be judged and suitable locations selected. We are concerned here with people, not numbers, and I would oppose that type of approach. A more holistic view must be taken that considers people and quality of life issues. The Fine Gael motion reminds me of a children's colouring book, where colouring is done by numbers. The party appears to want decentralisation done by numbers. Life and Irish society is much more complicated. Much greater consideration must be given to this issue than merely compiling rule books to govern the location of new offices.

I would like to see the programme of decentralisation commencing as soon as possible, although I accept it will take a period of years to implement. It is important that we do not transfer civil servants from one over-crowded congested city to another. We must consider the large, medium and smaller provincial towns which are best suited to decentralisation. Decentralisation will have a positive impact on these towns. A new Government office will make a big contribution at local level and enhance the quality of life of residents. We often hear of law and order incidents and late night disturbances, but people know that such problems are not as severe in provincial towns as in the major urban centres.

I put my cards firmly on the table and call for decentralisation to include the town of Portlaoise, which is approximately 40 to 50 miles from Dublin. Every day, hundreds of civil servants commute from the town to Dublin city on the national primary roads and the rail link. It is a waste of national resources to construct motorways and bypasses to enable people commute from what is effectively the commuter belt to the greater Dublin area. It makes far more sense to allow those living in the midlands to work there rather than spend four or five hours every day commuting. That would constitute real sustainable development. It is what regional development is about. We must transfer large numbers of civil servants out of Dublin.

I was disappointed to learn recently that disposable household income in County Laois is one of the lowest in the country. There are structural reasons for this, which include Government investment and IDA Ireland's abysmal failure to act for the people of County Laois. The number of people in IDA Ireland supported industries in the county is a fraction of what it was ten years ago.

The Minster rightly says that decentralisation is no substitute for inward investment. It is a different issue and both attract different types of employees. Decentralised jobs do not constitute new, but a transfer of employment. Such a move would represent a structural change in County Laois and I would like to see it implemented by the Government.

The Government faces serious choices. At the last count, 110 submissions were made from 110 towns across the country and I am sure every local authority has contacted the Minister seeking a meeting to press the case for these towns. That is not the way to proceed. Each town must be judged on its merits, and some are well merited while others are not suitable.

Portlaoise fits all the necessary criteria. The town is served by excellent road and rail transport services. The quality and pricing of housing is good and the quality of life is improving. When making its decisions in the coming months I ask the Government to give the town favourable consideration. In this regard, I will enlist the support of my constituency Cabinet colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, to work on behalf of the constituency. Although he is an Offaly man I expect he will be happy to support the case for Portlaoise.

None of these matters can be resolved by the application of simple formulae. I therefore ask that all the relevant factors are taken into consideration by Ministers when final decisions are made. I look forward to this happening as soon as possible.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate on decentralisation and I support the amendment to the motion and the Government's record and approach to the issue. I wonder why the Fine Gael Party moved the motion. It does not have a regional policy.

When the issue of Objective One status was debated nationally many Deputies, particularly those on the east coast, were ambivalent about an important Government decision for the midlands and the west, including my constituency. It may be the reason Fine Gael is reduced to three Deputies in the Dublin area. The party might have abandoned Dublin having decided that its lot lies in the midlands and the west. If that is the case, the party is reverting to the old Clann na Talún position, but I hope it is not. Fine Gael has played a part in the public life of the country.

To some extent, there is an opportunistic, political motive behind tonight's motion which may not be in the best interests of decentralisation. Decentralisation is an important matter, which involves people, jobs and towns. Many people have indicated to us as public representatives their wish to transfer from Departments in Dublin to offices in the regions. As the Minister stated, many of those people have submitted multiple applications and the figures presented by Fine Gael are very misleading.

They are not half as misleading as those Fianna Fáil provided of 10,000.

I was not here to interrupt Deputy Connaughton, but I would not have wished to do so if I had been. I hope he will not interrupt me as we have an issue in common. We represent neighbouring constituencies and I hope we can work together in terms of what is important for Ballinasloe, Roscommon and the constituencies of east Galway and Longford-Roscommon.

We will do our best.

We have done that in the past and I welcome the opportunity to contribute tonight to this debate. Given where I come from and what I represent, I believe there is a strong case to be made for decentralisation to the midlands and the west. I must pinpoint here the opportunity that exists for the Government to decentralise to Roscommon town, County Roscommon generally and the constituency of Longford-Roscommon. I record my support for the case for decentralisation to Ballinasloe.

Many of my constituents have worked and work in the town, which has been the market centre for a great area of south Roscommon. While I was not here for Deputy Connaughton's contribution, I support any case he has made in that regard.

When looking at the Government's spatial strategy, it is obvious to examine gateway towns. Roscommon town is ideally situated to provide a link between the population centres of Athlone and Sligo and Mayo. A town like Roscommon offers great opportunities as it meets many of the infrastructural requirements which would entice and be appreciated by people moving from Dublin to the west. I mention in particular the refurbished county hospital at which a major development is under way. A major leisure and swimming pool centre has recently been opened in Roscommon town which also has an 18 hole golf course and an excellent road and rail network. I record my gratitude for the recent decision of the independent appeals board of An Bord Pleanála which grants permission to proceed with a Government office block of 50,000 square feet in the town. There will be much spare capacity in the block which should be considered when decisions are made regarding decentralisation.

The Government has made a commitment to the regions which others failed to demonstrate when they had the opportunity to do so. I consider the decision on Objective One status and the rural renewal decisions made by the Government to be very important regional policy developments. Nobody else in the history of the State attempted to implement any such policies.

They tried to drain the Shannon for a long time.

I do not know what the Labour Party ever did. Labour had a bit of a party in our place at one time, but it disappeared about 30 years ago. Jack McQuillan, the Lord have mercy on him, kept it going for a time, but it has been gone for a long time.

In its time in government, Fianna Fáil has addressed these issues in a productive manner. We are conscious of the increasing population in areas which were previously denuded of people over many years. The increase is definitely the result of sound Government policies in regard to Objective One status and rural renewal which are important matters now and will continue to be in the future.

The next important decision which will hopefully be made in favour of Roscommon will concern decentralisation. The town's location favours a positive decision to decentralise there. I agree with the previous speaker that it would not be appropriate to create further traffic problems where centres of population are identified. No one would want to see that happen.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on this matter. I support the Government amendment to the motion and I compliment the Minister for Finance for the steady hand with which he has directed the national finances. When others wilted this man showed himself to have the best interests of this country's long-term economic development at heart. I have no doubt that when the time comes he will look with a favourable eye on the proposals coming forward from me on behalf of my constituency.

I thank the Minister and my colleagues for allowing me the opportunity to say a few brief words on this important issue for my constituency of west Limerick and the country as a whole. I support the amendment in the strongest possible way and I offer the Minister for Finance my strongest support for the manner in which he has handled the issue of decentralisation.

Prior to the general election, it would have been very easy for the Minister for Finance to look around the country and do something opportunistic in terms of our party by promising decentralisation to certain places. I was a member of a deputation which met the Minister three years ago to impress upon him the reasons my constituency should benefit from decentralisation. The Minister listened very carefully, but he has yet to make a decision. The reason he has not is that it is his firm intention to base on merit what is a pertinent and important decision for the regions and for provincial and county towns like Newcastle West. I welcome that as it is important the Minister conduct his business in that manner.

I wish to dispel the myth put about by the Opposition parties that there are 18,000 public service employees who are ready to decentralise to the regions. There may well be 18,000 applications to decentralise, but that is a very different matter. For example, if a civil servant working in Dublin wishes to further his or her career in Limerick, he or she will naturally apply to every Government office in the greater Limerick area, which could amount to some six or eight different offices. Throw in five or six different Garda stations and one has one civil servant making an application to move to the region on 12 different application forms. It is a myth that there were 18,000. To his credit, the Minister is now confident he has enough people in the Civil Service who are prepared to travel and be decentralised. We must also remember that it is not just about civil servants, it is about their families, furthering their careers and having the right opportunities.

Newcastle West, Listowel and Kilrush have made a unique application. I wish to pay tribute to the three county councils, Shannon Development in the mid-west region and everyone who was involved in putting this worthwhile and valid proposal to the Department of Finance three years ago. It is unique because it gives an opportunity for transfers within the three areas as well as enhanced career opportunities. None of the three towns would be capable in its own right of having a substantial Department. We were realistic about this and decided that coming together in a geographical triangle would be important to show that we were dealing with our business seriously and that the proposal had merit. Newcastle West could be very attractive. I have lobbied the Minister for Finance to ensure that the town benefits, because it has not benefited from industrial jobs for at least the last 20 years. We need these jobs in Newcastle West.

I wish to share time with Deputies Penrose and Crawford.

If decentralisation is to proceed, the Government must be prepared to take the hard decisions now. However, I am sceptical of whether the Taoiseach is capable of making such decisions, where the public good comes before narrow political advantage. We are one year away from local and European elections, when the Government will be seeking to curry favour with all the towns where local Deputies or Senators have hinted or directly promised that their town will benefit as a result of decentralisation.

The merits of decentralisation are agreed by all. If properly negotiated, many civil servants would happily relocate from large cities to smaller towns and many would be happy to escape Dublin's traffic gridlock and exorbitant house prices for a much easier life in the country. The Government could also save substantially on expensive city office space and, with effective telecommunications infrastructure, the public could be served just as well from outside, as opposed to inside, the capital. There are probably only a small number of senior civil servants who need to be close to the Dáil. There is probably an argument to be made as to why some Ministers should be located outside Dublin, perhaps in the suburbs, so they can keep in touch with the economic realities of ordinary people.

The success of decentralisation has already been demonstrated by the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social and Family Affairs and other Departments which have successfully decentralised over the last ten years. Towns like Longford and those in Donegal and Sligo have also benefited significantly from decentralisation. As someone who worked in the Department of Social and Family Affairs and still has, like many Deputies, dealings with the Department, I can say there has been no impact on the quality of services offered to the public. Many of the staff are happy to have relocated to those towns.

Why, therefore, is the Government delaying making further decisions on this matter? Decentralisation was launched and re-launched from 1999 onwards. The Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, referred to the end of year assessment of the Government's first year in office. The Government is coming to the end of its sixth year in office and it has precious little to show for it.

There are 300,000 more people working. Unemployment is 4.6%. The Deputy is talking balderdash.

I can only conclude that the failure to make a decision about decentralisation is just one more example of pork-barrel politics by the Government. It is afraid to face up to its election promises and to the towns that have failed to make it onto the decentralisation list. The Minister for Finance must have a list but he is most likely afraid to face up to those towns which have failed, for one reason or another, to make it on to the list.

Fianna Fáil's election promises are a debased currency. People are already waiting in the long grass to avenge the myriad broken promises—

That is what the Deputy hopes. We have been listening to her party saying that for the last 50 years.

—from the health service chaos to the disappearing 2,000 gardaí, of which we heard much but never saw them.

There are more gardaí than ever on the streets.

Why not face the music on decentralisation? It is time to make the decision to make Government more efficient and get on with it. The Government may find that the public is actually grateful for seeing at least one election promise fulfilled. Some areas may get bad news but people are not fools. We know the Celtic tiger has all but disappeared over the horizon, but we want what could be a helpful policy and a substantial contributor to the wealth and development of the regions. It should be proceeded with.

The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, is the Government's auctioneer with his gavel at the ready, yet where are the Progressive Democrats Deputies? They have had nothing to say about this. However, the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, has promised and re-promised on this issue every year. The only policy statement I could find from any member of the Government was a statement by Deputy Harney that she did not think decentralisation should be spread too thinly. However, given that 130 towns have requested decentralisation and that, even by the most generous assessment, only 20 towns can benefit from it, quite a number of towns will be disappointed. Deputy Fleming made an eloquent case for Portlaoise and Portarlington, Deputy Finneran spoke about Roscommon town and Ballinasloe to assist the case of Deputy Connaughton, and the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith, made eloquent cases for the success of decentralisation in Roscrea and Nenagh and what would happen in Roscrea in the future.

I have a few towns too.

This is an example of the depth of the provincialism with which we are dealing. The Minister is from Tipperary, yet he could not find it in his heart to even mention Clonmel or Carrick-on-Suir, which have made powerful cases in the context of the job losses they have suffered and the jobs and development Carrick-on-Suir never got under the Government. In a parade of five Fianna Fáil speakers, we heard of dozens of different locations. I almost wish Deputy Parlon was in the House to hear the bids, as the Government's auctioneer, and perhaps make a decision.

In the national spatial strategy there is a bewildering array of hub towns, gateway towns, spoke towns and satellite towns. All we lack is the wheel. These things are dependent on a wheel, but where is it? All we have seen in relation to the 130 proposals, the national spatial strategy and the broadband infrastructural project are consultants' reports that now lie a mile high, in which, understandably, town after town has put in its bid under the myriad headings the Government has offered. All these so-called strategic initiatives – the national spatial strategy, decentralisation – are carrots, or bits of carrots, dangled in front of every substantial town in the country.

Unfortunately, there is a sinister side to all this. The potential, in planning terms, to be one of the favoured few is leading to significant rezoning in towns everywhere. Where there is space and realistic opportunity to develop either inward investment or decentralisation, it makes for sensible planing, but where it is inappropriate – in some cases, towns have been dangling for more than four years – it is leading to a massive upsurge in land prices based on speculative hope. The downside is that, as happened in west Dublin for many years under the Minister's former colleagues such as Deputy Burke—

Former Deputy Burke.

—the speculative profit will not benefit the community already in those towns or those coming to the towns. It is going into the hands, exclusively, of landowners. Where a town is selected for this kind of development, some of the benefits of the rise in land value that follows such a programme should be used to fund community infrastructure – schools, community centres, the road network and the public transport infrastructure. That would be sensible planning. Unfortunately, with the Government's attempt to please all the people in all 130 towns, plus Fianna Fáil's builders, the consequences will be particularly unfortunate.

Fine Gael and the Labour Party control Cork County Council and have done so for the past 50 years. I speak for Cork.

For a number of years I have been a strong advocate of decentralisation, as the Labour Party's spokesperson on agriculture and rural development. I was extremely disappointed with the Government's initial approach to the decentralisation programme. It was like a bull in a china shop. It made a number of ad hoc decisions to relocate elements of Departments and boards, with the sole criterion that locations have strong links to Ministers. At that time, little regard was given to the needs of the civil servants involved or the suitability of locations. That was a huge problem.

I welcome the Government's decision to pursue the process of decentralisation. Its success will depend on the Government's will to ensure that the recipient towns are provided with the necessary infrastructure and supports to capitalise on an increasing population. This is not a simple matter of locating civil servants in towns throughout Ireland or rewarding towns in which there is a sitting Minister, regardless of the town's employment or economic needs. The process is far more complex than that.

The national spatial strategy should have come out a long time ago. Mullingar is part of a triangle in the midlands consisting of itself, Athlone and Tullamore. It has designated gateway status, and it is absolutely essential that this is sustained. Mullingar is the only town of the three that has not so far benefited from decentralisation, but when the infrastructure is put in place for designated gateway status, it must follow. Unless logic is torpedoed out the door, decentralisation of a Department, board or major semi-State body is essential. I see Deputy Connaughton is here – I advocate something like that for Ballinasloe also. It is no use designating these places for special status unless it is followed through.

The Tánaiste said they would not come.

Three years ago, I contributed to the debate on the Town Renewal Bill. I stated that local authorities should be given greater autonomy for planning the social, physical and economic infrastructure of their towns and villages. Local autonomy and the devolution of central Government is a central ingredient in the success of the decentralisation process. Ireland is sufficiently small to ensure that a decentralised form of government can work successfully. The case was well made for Mullingar by Westmeath County Council in co-operation with Mullingar Town Commission, as it then was, the Westmeath County Enterprise Board, the Mullingar Chamber of Commerce, the Mullingar District Trades Council and the Westmeath Community Development Board. These groups made a presentation to the Minister for Finance in March 2000 on the reasons Mullingar would be an ideal centre for decentralisation. The most recent quarterly national household survey clearly showed that the midland and Border regions have benefited least from employment growth. The jobless rate in those regions still hovers at around 7%. That statistic should be borne in mind when decisions on decentralisation are made.

Mullingar has been bypassed on a number of previous occasions. We are not into the politics of begrudgery in Westmeath, as that achieves nothing. However, many towns around Mullingar have benefited from the transfer of Departments. We have seen that and we want to be part of it. Jobs and infrastructure have resulted. I am delighted by the success of the decentralisation process, which is important for the reinvigoration of rural Ireland and the reduction of congestion in and around Dublin. Many civil servants from Mullingar and the surrounding towns and villages in north-west Meath travel to Dublin and elsewhere on a daily and weekly basis. They would welcome the opportunity of transferring back to their homes or an area nearby. They would also welcome the opportunity of applying for transfers to other decentralised Departments or agencies which may be located in Mullingar. The statistics in this regard are available in the Departments. If these people were presented with the opportunity of moving back home they could avail of a cheaper standard of living and more affordable property prices. Some commuters travel daily on a rail service which can prove problematic. They would welcome the opportunity of working in a decentralised Department in Mullingar.

I will briefly outline some of Mullingar's virtues, with which the Minister of State, Deputy Aylward, will be familiar. It is located only one hour from Dublin and is the county town of Westmeath. With its rural hinterland, the town displays the best rural and urban aspects of contemporary Irish life. It offers a high-quality lifestyle, with first-class schools, excellent health care services and an enjoyable social atmosphere. Mullingar is a friendly, outward-looking town which combines modern facilities with a co-operative, supportive and welcoming environment. Those are important qualities for any town wishing to attract a decentralised Department.

Mullingar is known as the capital of the lakelands. An ideal location for leisure and recreation, it is located close to Loughs Owel, Derravaragh, Ennell and Lene. We have an excellent 18-hole championship golf course, horse-riding enthusiasts can avail of a choice of equestrian centres, and the town's swimming pools offer top-class facilities. We have one of the best arts centres in the country and the jewel in the crown is Belvedere House park and gardens. I am proud to come from the town and I am sure the Government cannot turn a blind eye to the most deserving place that has been mentioned tonight.

I thank Deputy Connaughton for raising this important issue. I was somewhat amused by the contributions of some of the Government spokespeople, which questioned our right to put forward this motion, raised issues about the figures the Deputy used in his speech and so on. Those figures were obtained from replies to parliamentary questions and they only state the number of applicants. The Government stated that it would decentralise 10,000 people, and that is the figure we must question tonight. How many of those have actually been decentralised, apart from those who went to the constituency of the Minister, Deputy McCreevy?

We all know this city is jammed with people. We know how difficult it is to get into the city centre compared to six, eight or ten years ago. That is good, because it has economic benefits, but what has happened down the country? I represent the Cavan-Monaghan region. People are travelling to Dublin from Virginia in County Cavan, even from Cavan town, on a daily basis. There is a poor bus service and no train service. People travel from Carrickmacross by the busload because there are no decentralised offices there. Some of them take the train from Dundalk, but Monaghan town is just too far away. I beg that a town such as Monaghan be considered for decentralisation. That town has lost Monaghan Poultry, St. Patrick's College, McCaldin's bakery and Montex, and Monaghan General Hospital is being wound down. Unlike some of the other towns mentioned it does not have a swimming pool. We hope the Minister with responsibility for this area will deliver what his predecessor promised the week prior to the last general election.

The issue of social welfare was mentioned. There is an office in Monaghan town in which there is room to accommodate at least another ten people, yet queries concerning minor matters have to be passed to the office in Dundalk for decision. I beg the Government to rectify matters such as that.

There is an excellent district veterinary office in Ballybay town and there is ample space beside it to increase the numbers there, which would avoid some of the problems we have encountered in recent times where numbers do not allow for upgrading the skills of the staff. That office has been available for the past few years, yet the Minister of State, Deputy Parlon, who has been in situ for one year has done nothing about it. This and the previous Government have had all that time to act. There was also the closure of the CPV plant in Clones.

The Minister said we cannot provide replacement jobs through this measure, but they are not being provided in any other way. This is one of the aspects we can use to address that need.

The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, made an important statement in response to a question I put a month or so ago. He said that one needed to have good roads, broadband access, sports facilities, etc., before one could justify decentralisation. I am concerned for areas such as Monaghan which still have a long way to go in terms of having good roads and which have no rail service or swimming pool. Those are the issues the Government must address in the period in which it will take to decide on decentralisation to ensure that Border areas such as Monaghan and Cavan do not lose out.

I remind the Minister that there was an opportunity to provide decentralised bodies in the Border region under the Good Friday Agreement, but the body dealing with food production was based in Cork. That opportunity arose as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. How could that decision be justified? Northern Ireland folk could not understand why they were not able to drive by car across the Border to this body rather than having to board a aeroplane to go to Cork to where this body is based to discuss matters relevant to their own area.

County Monaghan produces two thirds of all mushrooms and poultry produced and it is a good dairy farming county. Cavan ranks second largest in pig production in the country, yet the decentralised body dealing with food for the Border region and Northern Ireland was based in Cork. Does that make sense? Can we be assured that when the Minister, Deputy McCreevy, makes a decision on decentralisation it will not be made solely on the basis of the number of Ministers in a constituency or in respect of the power such persons have?

I appreciate the additional time afforded me to speak on this matter. This is an important issue. It is vital for the BMW region. I urge that when decisions are made they will be made in a positive way.

Debate adjourned.
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