David Stanton
Question:59 Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Transport when he expects the issues of funding for the new terminal at Cork Airport to be resolved; his views on same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21904/06]
Other Questions.
State Airports.
Billy Timmins
Question:135 Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Transport the initiatives he has taken to resolve the issue of the cost relating to the terminal at Cork Airport; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21921/06]
Bernard Allen
Question:168 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Transport if his attention has been drawn to when the new terminal at Cork Airport will be fully operational; if he is satisfied regarding its delayed opening; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21923/06]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 59, 135 and 168 together.
As stated previously, funding of the new Cork Airport terminal will be obliged to take account not only of what is commercially and financially feasible for Cork Airport but also of what is commercially and financially feasible for Dublin Airport. Future plans for both Shannon and Cork as independent airports must have regard to the capacity of each to contribute to its own capital investment programme.
Under the State Airports Act 2004, before assets can transfer to the Shannon or Cork airport authorities, both the Minister for Finance and I must be satisfied as to the financial and operational readiness of both bodies. Accordingly, each of the three airport authorities is required to prepare a comprehensive business plan and obtain our joint approval for these plans before assets can be transferred to the airports. The three airport authorities are working on the preparation of these plans, with the Dublin Airport Authority, DAA, co-ordinating the process. A range of issues need to be carefully considered in this work, including the optimum mechanisms for the financing of the new terminal in Cork and the allocation of airport assets among the three airports.
These are complex issues that the airport authorities must consider carefully and, as stated previously, I have not imposed artificial deadlines for the completion of this process. My Department will continue to liaise with all three authorities on the business planning timetable, taking account of the key issues that I have mentioned. The capacity of Cork Airport to operate on a fully commercial basis will be fully assessed as part of this process and will be factored into the decisions to be made. I look forward to the finalisation of the business planning process because of its importance in facilitating the development of dynamic, independent and financially sustainable State airports. The Government objective of airport restructuring will be achieved in a manner that underpins the financial sustainability of all three State airports.
The delay in the opening of the new terminal at Cork is an operational matter for the DAA and Cork Airport Authority and I have no statutory functions in this regard. However, I understand that construction of the terminal will be completed within a matter of days.
The Minister's predecessor stated in the House that, when established on a statutory basis, the independent Shannon and Cork authorities would both "commence business free of debt". At the time, he also inquired whether anyone believed he should allow Cork Airport to pay off the debt while still developing an airport and stated that the burden of the debts in question should be lifted from the shoulders of the airports to allow them to develop properly into the future. What was the basis of that commitment? Was it Government policy three years ago? If so, what, other than the appointment of a new Minister, changed? Was the Minister of the day speaking on behalf of the Government?
Nothing has changed. I am in the same position as my predecessor. People have selectively quoted from various documents but the opening contribution to the debate on the State Airports Act 2004, provides absolute clarity. I agree with the board of Cork Airport, which wants its independence much earlier than was envisaged when the legislation was introduced. It would be good if that were achieved but a number of complex issues must be addressed, such as the distribution of assets and the reserves that must be in place to facilitate this. Cork Airport is in a good position because it has a new terminal and, in light of the growth in the market, it can quickly become fully independent. If any changes were made, they concerned the timeframe because, while it had been understood Shannon would be facilitated first, followed by Cork, the board of Cork Airport has considerably shortened that timeframe. I agree with that decision but it will give rise to different challenges in terms of achieving the target.
Is the Minister accusing his predecessor of making of a mistake by stating "they will both commence business free of debt"?
My predecessor's statements accord with mine. Cork, Shannon and Dublin airports have to remain financially viable and must be turned into commercial successes. The three boards and my Department are engaged in that process, with the advice of a myriad of advisers, and will reach a conclusion once the areas of disagreement are resolved. This is not a game and serious financial issues are involved for the airports and their customers. I have every intention of ensuring Cork Airport is in a strong commercial position when it becomes independent and the same applies for Shannon and Dublin airports.
Does the Minister agree this Government's cock-up and betrayal of a promise made by a Minister in Cork will result in the imposition of significant charges on passengers travelling through Cork Airport? Does he further agree that the level of debt forms a noose around the neck of the Cork Airport Authority which will hinder future growth?
At a formal meeting in Cork last November, we were told by authoritative sources that the terminal would be ready by December but, due to operational reasons, would not open until January. We were then told in January that it would open in time for the Easter travel period. Now we are being told it may not open until September or October. Will the Minister get his Department's act together to deal with this appalling time delay? The extension of the completion date from January to September defies explanation. Will the Minister make a clear statement with regard to these events?
Will he take a strong line with the Dublin Airport Authority in respect of the arrangements it is imposing on Cork? Dublin Airport Authority cannot even get its act together to erect a marquee on the roof of its own terminal, yet by putting its heavy hand on Cork Airport, it caused the development of the new terminal to be delayed by nine months. Will the Minister make a statement on this delay and the implications for the future development of Cork Airport?
I understand the terminal will be completed in a matter of days. Deputy Allen may be expressing a lack of confidence in the board of Cork Airport arising from its inability to meet the deadlines it gave to the Deputy and others over the past eight months.
Somebody could not meet the deadline.
I would have preferred that the Cork Airport terminal development had been delivered on time and within budget. While I will await the outcome of the matter, it is certainly not on time and does not appear to be within budget. That is somewhat disappointing but the reality is we have to take account of these issues.
Who is responsible for the failure to complete the terminal on time or within budget?
We can be confident that Cork effectively has a new airport, which will bring tremendous benefits to Munster and the south. The success of this fantastic new facility will be important. It will attract millions of passengers to Cork and I do not doubt the airport will attempt to dramatically expand its short-haul services and take advantage of new long-haul destinations. That is all good news. We must focus on the future in a sustainable way with an active, commercially viable Cork Airport with a sound financial base. Everybody involved in this process wants that and I am determined to deliver it.
Does the Minister agree that certainty on Cork Airport is urgently needed? He has not answered my question on whether this commitment was given by his predecessor. "Yes" or "no" will suffice. Does he agree or will he comment on what Mr. McGann recently said, that the Dublin Airport Authority would need approximately €300 million of distributable reserves before the airports could be split up? What are the gross borrowings of the airport? Is it true that they stand at €472 million? Does he plan to introduce legislation if they exceed €700 million?
As the Deputy has raised a range of questions that were not part of the question I have answered, I do not have some of the specific answers. If the Deputy will put down a question I will get the specifics for him. Cork Airport is ready to go and we must make a decision. We cannot operate State companies outside the companies law.
Tell the Minister, Deputy Brennan.
Why did he make the statement?
Some people have put it to me that because they were State companies we could ignore proper accounting procedures and fiscal and business management.
The Minister, Deputy Brennan, made that assumption.
He did not.
He said it to the Minister in the House.
If one reads what was said in the House in 2004 from start to finish, as I have, not selectively——
The Minister should read his letter. He says it here.
Deputy Stanton has just read it out.
The former Minister for Transport stated there would have to be a finance lease arrangement between Cork and Dublin airports to facilitate the independence of Cork Airport.
Did he say it would be debt-free, yes or no?
That was stated——
Did he say it would be debt-free? I have asked four times. Is it yes or no?
That was stated on the record in this House. The issue of having distributable reserves is complex. It is fine by me if we wait until all the distributable reserves are available to Dublin Airport. The board of Cork Airport does not see it that way. It does not want to wait and it is right. It wants to become independent quicker. If we want to wait for that timeframe to be completed we can have everything on our wish list. In the meantime Dublin Airport will have to run Cork for the foreseeable future.
The root of this problem is political indecision, as it has been with so many Ministers for Transport.
There has been no indecision on my part. I have had enough meetings with Cork Airport management. I have not changed my views since the first time I met them.
When it comes to aviation the Minister is always one peg short of a tent. A political decision must be made. Dublin, Shannon and Cork airports cannot produce realistic business plans. The Minister says he will not put pressure on them to produce business plans and will give them an indefinite timescale. It will be an indefinite timescale because they cannot make a business plan until they know how the debt is to be apportioned. The airports need to know. Cork Airport has already lost flights. Dublin Airport needs to know what it has to invest in its enormous and delayed expansion plans. The Minister is the only person who can make a decision. We read in today's newspaper that Dublin Airport has decided to postpone a decision. To put it back in the Minister's lap it is getting another report, which it will send to the Minister because the airports cannot make that decision. It is a political decision and it must be made politically. It is down to the Minister to make it. He must do more than make announcements and re-announcements.
I disagree with the Deputy. She knows well that I have made all the decisions and will make the decision on Cork and Dublin airports. I would prefer if people on both sides of this argument took the political baloney out of this. I choose my words carefully. It would be easier to resolve if they did, but some people chose to make a political football of this——
No.
——and this was to the detriment of good, sound, financial business decisions being made. I have met Cork Airport management on every occasion on which they have sought to meet me. I have had numerous meetings with them. I made arrangements for them to go to London recently, where they met people who are analysing their future. That was a successful meeting. They asked me to facilitate it and I did so. Those reports are being concluded and will be sent to me. I have not received them, and the board of Cork Airport asked me to allow its input into the conclusion of those reports before I made a decision. I agreed to that from the point of view of both Cork and Dublin airports. Those reports are almost finalised and I will make the decision the minute I get them. I hope everybody will support the decisions.
Did the Minister say the terminal will be finished in days or open in days? There is a difference.
I said it will be finished in days.
I warn the Minister that he is following the same road he did with his electronic voting debacle. He lectured the Opposition about playing political football and accused us of being Luddites. He is using the same tactics now. Former Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, introduced the only political element when he wrote a letter saying Cork Airport would inherit a terminal debt-free. It is as clear as that. I do not know what else the Minister is reading into it. The people of Cork expect a political delivery on this. I differ with the Minister when he says Cork will have a new airport. Although Cork will have a new terminal, its future growth will be stymied by the fact that it needs extra capacity for airport stands and runway expansion. That cannot happen unless the burden of debt is lifted. The Minister should not tell us we have a new airport. We have a new terminal, which is approximately eight months overdue, and a potential debt of almost €200 million. We need clear-cut statements. It is make your mind up time for the Government because it was a Government decision and statement. When will the terminal open for operations and when will the Minister make a decision on the debt?
I am glad the Fine Gael position is clear. It wants to ladle all the debt from Cork Airport on to the passengers at Dublin Airport.
Here we go.
Did somebody on this side of the House say that?
Did somebody say that here?
Fine Gael wants to ride every horse in every constituency around the country with no accountability for anything.
The Minister fell off the horse on electronic voting.
I wish Deputy Allen good luck with that. The truth of it will emerge in time.
Good luck to me, not much good luck for the taxpayer.
Cork Airport wants a debt in excess of €200 million to be landed exclusively at the door of the Dublin Airport Authority. I do not know what the north Dublin Fine Gael Deputies or hopeful Deputies feel about that.
We want a decision from the Minister today.
The Minister, Deputy Brennan, promised it.
It is not Fianna Fáil's position to do that. We want a balanced outcome for the development of all the airports and we will get it.
The Minister's predecessor said all this.
The game-playing that goes on with Fine Gael trying to play off both is unsustainable, as Deputy Allen knows. We will have a conclusion on this in the next few weeks. I told Deputy Allen the terminal will be completed in the next few days. I did not say when it would be opened.
When will it open?
That is a matter for the Cork Airport Authority. If it cannot open the terminal after getting €200 million for it, that is a poor look-out for the future.
Driving Tests.
Phil Hogan
Question:60 Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Transport the terms of the new deal to allow the outsourcing of the driving testing service; when this scheme will commence; the impact it will have on the waiting times and numbers awaiting a test; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21915/06]
Arthur Morgan
Question:81 Mr. Morgan asked the Minister for Transport if agreement has been reached with IMPACT regarding clearing the driving test backlog; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21913/06]
Martin Ferris
Question:117 Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Transport the way in which he will address the driving test backlog. [21911/06]
Breeda Moynihan-Cronin
Question:141 Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Transport his proposals on minimising the high number of driving test cancellations. [21987/06]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:147 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for Transport the situation with the driving test backlog; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21907/06]
Thomas P. Broughan
Question:151 Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Transport his target for the number of driving tests in 2006 and 2007; and the way in which these will be sourced. [21959/06]
Bernard J. Durkan
Question:285 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Transport the extent to which he can expect an increased throughput in respect of driving tests; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21870/06]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 60, 81, 117, 141, 147, 151 and 285 together.
This question should have been taken earlier as it is repetitive. I refer to Priority Question No. 55 which I answered earlier.
As I have consistently indicated, the delay in providing driving tests is a matter of regret to me. It not only represents a poor service to the public but it also hampers the development of initiatives which I wish to pursue and which will contribute further to road safety. The driving test and those who deliver it are a key element in the road safety strategy.
It is my objective to eliminate the backlog of driving tests by mid-2007. That means having a waiting list of no more than 50,000 that can be scheduled in a ten to 12-week period. The measures in place to deal with this are as follows. Seven civil servants from the Department of Agriculture and Food commenced working as driver testers in April this year and will conduct tests in 2006 and 2007. This gives an annual additional capacity of about 10,000 tests. Six further driver testers on two-year contracts are due to commence training on 12 June, with another five being trained shortly thereafter. These will provide additional capacity of approximately 15,000 in a full year.
A bonus scheme for driver testers has been operating since February 2006. The testers have the potential to deliver up to 40,000 driving tests over the course of the year in the evenings and on Saturdays. The final element in the package to eliminate the backlog of driving tests was to outsource a block of tests to an outside agency. Negotiations on this aspect reached a position last week where Mr. Kieran Mulvey, chief executive of the Labour Relations Commission, acting as an agreed mediator, recommended proposals which would enable my objective of using this option to be implemented. I have accepted the proposals and I understand these are to be considered by union members this week and I sincerely hope they will accept them.
The proposals envisage that a contract would be in place by 1 July of this year. This would be a contract solely for the purpose of achieving a defined number of completed tests to assist in eliminating the current backlog of applications. It could be extended to 45,000 tests if necessary. I expect to see a marked reduction in the waiting list by the end of this year and will formally review the position, taking account of all the above measures, at that stage.
Does the Minister accept that, on the basis of these figures, his proposals to cut the waiting list will not work and will not reduce waiting times to ten weeks by 2007? Does he intend to end the provision for unaccompanied drivers? Why has the effect of this not been factored into the projections for the next few years?
Is there not a serious problem with the IT system, contributing to the lack of return for the investment in the service? I presume the Minister is aware the head office in Ballina is incapable of communicating with other test centres by e-mail. It must use the postal system. Even though one can apply for a driving test on-line, each application must be input manually in Ballina. Operating as if we were not in the computer era is a ridiculous waste of resources in what is supposed to be a modern service. What is the Minister's intention in respect of the IT system? When does he intend to replace it?
I do not agree with Deputy Shortall's assertion that the proposals, which I hope will be agreed this week, will not have an impact. They will have a substantial impact.
They will have an impact but will not reduce waiting times to ten weeks.
They will have a substantial impact on the backlog. Both sides agree this. I have agreed to review the process and the achievements later. We need to radically overhaul the driver testing system from two points of view — the system of delivering tests, and the criteria for someone driving on the road and the licensing system that should be in place. The new chief executive and the board of the Road Safety Authority are examining both systems and policy. The process is well under way. We need a new modern system to deal with the necessary changes, of which the public is conscious. That someone can receive a provisional licence and drive a vehicle without doing a test is fundamentally flawed. We need a new learner permit system.
When will the IT system be replaced?
The chief executive is examining the requirements.
Has the Minister any plans to do so?
The Road Safety Authority has plans to do so and the funding is available.
Is funding available for this year?
If the Deputy tables a question I will seek the answer from the chief executive.
Talk about passing the buck. The Minister is responsible for this. He should be able to answer a question rather than suggesting I table another one to see what the chief executive states.
I responded directly to what the Deputy asked. The new chief executive, the board and over 300 members of staff of the Road Safety Authority have been put in place. It is their job to run the authority and they are well paid to do so. I will deal with the policy area. I have agreed that the systems are not capable and that more modern systems are needed. I have agreed our policies are poor in respect of the ease with which those with provisional licences can drive. I have changed this. I do not know what Deputy Shortall wants me to do, apart from travelling to Ballina and running the Road Safety Authority headquarters.
The Minister has presided over the shambles that is driver testing for over two years. When I ask if funding is available for a new IT system, it is a little rich for him to state he will ask a chief executive appointed only a few weeks ago.
I made proposals that were blocked by the union, supported by Deputy Shortall. I do not want to hear a load of baloney. I have answered the question three times.
The Minister has dodged the question as usual, passing it on to someone else.
I have not.
It is over a year and a half since the Minister first proposed outsourcing 40,000 tests, a meagre and timid ambition which would not have solved the problem at that time. It certainly will not work this year because each year an additional 40,000-45,000 test applications are made. Currently, approximately 130,000 people are awaiting tests. If the Minister's proposals are agreed, there is no prospect of more than 40,000-45,000 being cleared. That is the limit of the agreement mediated by Mr. Kieran Mulvey. Some 130,000 test applications will remain. The only contribution to clearing the backlog is the promise of increased productivity. Does the Minister really expect that increased productivity will clear the backlog of 130,000 people awaiting the test and reduce the waiting time to ten weeks? Even a ten-week waiting list is grossly inadequate for the systems referred to in the legislation to function. A waiting time of two weeks is required, such as exists in Britain. As Deputy Shortall states, if the measures envisaged in the legislation are announced 4,000 drivers on provisional licences will apply. How does the Minister propose to clear the backlog of 130,000 and the 45,000 applications that are made every year? The Minister's proposals have no hope. He may be able to walk off into the sunset but this problem will persist unless he increases the capacity of the current workers to do the work.
I hope we will carry out 180,000 tests this year. I agree the system as it was would not eliminate the backlog. In spite of every effort to thwart my plans to outsource tests, I stuck to my guns. I was successful at every level in terms of resolving this issue but I wish I had received better co-operation. Despite people telling me to abandon the matter and to give up, I did not do so. There will now be a three-pronged approach involving driver testers testing at night and at weekends, additional staff from the Departmental of Agriculture and Food and contracted staff being put in place and outsourcing. We are now in a position to see a radical reduction in the backlog.
I agree with the Deputy that ten weeks is not satisfactory and, ultimately, the period between a person applying for and sitting a test must be reduced to six weeks. That would be a good system. I expect, in light of the figures factored through the system, that this will work if all of those involved deliver on their commitments. I expect that they will do so.
The Minister referred to radical reduction and a significant effect on the backlog. I accept his statements on the difficulties involved with regard to human resources etc. In the context of current difficulties, has the Minister considered prioritising those areas where substantial backlogs exist? I refer, in particular, to areas where significant numbers of road accidents occur. Has there been any attempt to reduce the backlog in those areas? The Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Gallagher, is sitting beside the Minister and the area in which he resides would be an example. Is there a way of examining the position regarding areas where many accidents occur and the provision of resources therein?
I also wish to refer to areas where there may be high unemployment or a lack of transport. People need transport in order to travel to work. Is there a possibility, taking into account existing problems, of prioritising testing in those areas? It may be outside the scope of the question but perhaps something could be done, even in the context of the resources currently available.
I agree with the Deputy. I have made my views known to the Road Safety Authority, RSA, that it should prioritise areas that are clearly in a bad position regarding the number of tests that remain to be completed. I hope the resources used will be allocated on a basis that will tackle the worst areas and take into account some of the factors to which the Deputy referred. That is common sense and I hope the authority will apply it when the position in respect of tests is finalised.
The new system has been in place since in February, at least on the existing driver testers' side. There has been a large increase in the number of tests carried out, particularly in the evenings and at weekends. If we can maintain the high level of productivity and the pace involved into next year, there will be a substantial reduction in the backlog. I intend to review the position at that stage to consider how to proceed.
Cancellations and those who do not attend for their tests are making the system even more inefficient. I have heard from some people waiting for tests that they are almost afraid to go on holidays because they fear that notification of their tests will arrive. Those to whom I refer have waited a substantial period for tests.
It seems that market research could be carried out in respect of people who have not attended for or who cancelled their tests. People often schedule tests when they obtain provisional licences because they know that it will be a long period before the test comes up. It may not prove, in such cases, to be sufficient time to prepare for the test. This adds to the inefficiency. It would be quite a useful exercise to query the people who have cancelled or not attended.
The matter will not come down to something as simplistic as increasing the cost of the test. There is a financial advantage for someone with a full licence with regard to insurance or the freedom to drive without a full licence holder in the car. I would not like to think that such a factor would exclusively be a reason for no-shows or cancellations. People have to wait a long time in any event.
Will the Minister consider carrying out research among those who have cancelled their test or not attended in order to see if issues are arising which, if taken into account, could reduce the number of cancellations and no-shows?
I agree with the Deputy in that the number of people who are not attending for tests or who are cancelling them is unacceptable and it has a significant impact on the efficiency of the system as it exists. There is no doubt about that. On the system side, we require mechanisms that are far more capable of dealing with cases where people do not attend in the context of obtaining replacements quickly. In some other countries, modern text messaging systems are used and there are lists of people on the systems who can be reached quickly if there is a short-notice cancellation. Such people may be available within an hour or two hours to sit their tests.
The Deputy is correct to argue that the system should be better and more efficient. However, there is a blasé approach to applying for a test and turning up to take it. There are a number of people who do not bother to show up at all, and they do not telephone or send any notification. That number is unacceptably high, and it impacts on the ability of the system to deal with people who legitimately want to sit their tests. We want to facilitate people who need and want quick facilitation for a test.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.