Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Dec 2006

Vol. 629 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 21, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2004; No. 22, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2005; No. 6, the Social Welfare Bill 2006 — Second and Subsequent Stages, resumed; No. 33, Europol (Amendment) Bill 2006 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 7, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill 2006 — Order for Second Stage, and Second and Subsequent Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted not later than 11 p.m., Nos. 21 and 22 shall be decided without debate and in the case of No. 6 the proceedings of the resumed Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. today, the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall be brought to a conclusion at 6.30 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs; the Report and Final Stage of No. 33 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 9 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform; the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 7 shall be taken today, and the proceedings on the Second Stage, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to conclusion after 90 minutes, the speeches of a Minister or Minister for State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 11 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Finance. Private Members' business shall be No. 76, motion re public transport system in Dublin, resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are five proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 21 and 22 without debate, motions re service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2004 and 2005 agreed? I call Deputy Boyle.

Mr. Boyle

I wish to express the Green Party's reservations on this method of doing business in respect of these two motions. It had been proposed a number of weeks ago that they would be put on the Order Paper and a debate was agreed to at the time. The House should take an opportunity on an annual basis to discuss how the Defence Forces are being deployed in UN missions throughout the world. It should so do both to offer words of support and to examine questions as to whether they are being properly resourced. Placing two motions on an Order Paper like this, without even having the secondary option of having the motions debated at the Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights, is not a practice this House should adopt.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 21 and 22 without debate, motions re service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2004 and 2005, be agreed to" put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

We now move on to the third proposal. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 6, Second and Subsequent Stages of the Social Welfare Bill 2006 agreed? I call Deputy Boyle.

Mr. Boyle

I refer to the procedure being adopted, which has been adopted for several Bills in this last week of business. The idea of a single vote after a Second Stage debate has been exhausted without an opportunity for a Report Stage debate is not a good practice for this House. The House should not adopt this procedure as a standard practice.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

I wish to make a similar point regarding the import of this Bill. As a general practice, I do not believe this to be an appropriate approach to carrying out the business of the House. While all Members appreciate the importance of what is entailed, the continually repeated practice of cramming and ramming through legislation with guillotines in the last week of a session is inappropriate and does not make for good legislation.

Question, "That the proposal for dealing with No. 6, Second and Subsequent Stages of the Social Welfare Bill 2006, be agreed to" put and declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 33, Report and Final Stages of the Europol (Amendment) Bill 2006 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7, Second and Subsequent Stages of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission (Amendment) Bill 2006[Seanad] agreed? Agreed.

I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.

Mr. Kenny

I wish to ask the Taoiseach three questions. He is aware I may not be present tomorrow as I must attend a meeting in Brussels. The Dáil is to be recalled two days earlier than was previously expected to discuss legislation dealing with the nursing homes inspectorate. Opposition Members have called for that Bill on several occasions. Will the days in question be normal sitting days with Taoiseach's Questions and Leaders' Questions? If the Dáil is to be recalled, it should be recalled for its full purpose.

Second, a nationwide issue has been brought to my attention recently. A considerable number of parent-teacher meetings lack interpretation facilities to discuss children's performance with parents. While I am aware such a facility exists within the Department of Education and Science, it is not sufficiently widespread. I refer to Polish and Latvian people and so on.

In this context, when can Members expect the publication of the proposed education Ireland Bill? The Government's legislative programme suggests a date sometime in 2007.

Third, as this is the last week of this session, Members will not have a debate on the Harris report on the quality of spoken Irish in primary schools in this session. Perhaps the Taoiseach will remind the Government Whip to facilitate it some time in the next session.

The Taoiseach

The education Ireland Bill is due in 2007. As we have not seen the heads of the Bill yet, I cannot give Deputy Kenny a date in this regard. As there is a commitment to debate the Harris report, I will ask the Government Whip to arrange it. As for the sitting during the week in which the House will return, its purpose will be to discuss legislation and to deal with the legislation only.

Mr. Rabbitte

I agree with Deputy Kenny that the notion of a window dressing week in January is entirely unacceptable. At the last count, I understand that 11 guillotines will have operated this week. This is against the background in which the House was suspended three times in this term. It is now proposed that the House should return without an Order of Business, parliamentary questions, Adjournment Debates or Leaders' Questions. Members will have a sanitised week, which is a most unfortunate precedent and the Labour Party will oppose it.

Am I correct in deducing there will not be a referendum after all on the protection of the child? I read in the newspapers that the Taoiseach is retreating from his earlier position. He sent out his backbenchers to agree one thing at the committee, as well as two Ministers who, unusually, served on the committee. However, he is now minded to take a different view. I heard the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Brennan, state that whatever is decided, it is unlikely to be decided this side of the general election. Can the Taoiseach clarify the position?

The Taoiseach

I will do so gladly. What I said to the Deputy last week remains the position. While the Government will deal with the second issue shortly, the position is still that if we can get agreement, we will proceed. Just because I noted last week that people are entitled to express a view, that should not mean that I have changed from the discussion that took place at the committee. The Government must and will decide that.

Mr. Sargent

I am unsure whether Members are any the wiser.

The Taoiseach

Hopefully we will have a referendum in the spring. That is the answer.

Mr. Sargent

That is the answer. Very well.

I wish to ask the Taoiseach to reconsider the January sittings as it does not do the House any good to give the impression it is returning in January without Government accountability apart from the debate on the nursing home issue. While that issue is important, it is not what the Dáil is established to do in full. Government accountability and Taoiseach's Questions are also required. Perhaps there will be an opportunity between now and tomorrow to reflect on this.

I refer to promised legislation. Following the issues highlighted by the "Prime Time Investigates" television programme, it is particularly important for Members to see the promised legislation in the area of consumer protection. This matter is more urgent than ever following that programme, given the comparison between a salesman and a con man made on that programme which——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to the question.

Mr. Sargent

——should not be tolerated.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is no need to make a Second Stage speech in this regard.

Mr. Sargent

I wanted to highlight the urgency of the matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call the Taoiseach, on the question.

Mr. Sargent

I believe what was said, with the expletive, was nailing buyers to the effing wall. This is not the kind of consumer protection which is tolerable.

An Ceann Comhairle

Sorry, I ask the Deputy to——

Mr. Sargent

The legislation to which I refer is the proposed consumer protection, national consumer agency, Bill. It is extremely urgent and was due to be published in this session. It should be enacted. When will Members have access to it?

The Taoiseach

This session.

Mr. Sargent

By this session does the Taoiseach mean before the end of January?

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy McCormack.

Mr. McCormack

Is the Taoiseach aware of the difficulties being experienced by many non-Irish trained pharmacists? Some have had their Health Service Executive contracts withdrawn because of the three year rule. I have asked about the pharmacy Bill four times in this session and each time have been assured that it would be taken during this session. The Minister for Health and Children took the Order of Business three weeks ago and assured me it would be taken in this session and that it would resolve the problem faced by those pharmacists at present. At least one pharmacist in my constituency now runs his pharmacy at a loss.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to the question.

Mr. McCormack

Very well. It is clear the Minister for Health and Children misled the Dáil. She certainly misled me by telling me——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, on legislation.

Mr. McCormack

——this legislation would be introduced during this term. She should come before the House and apologise.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will hear the Taoiseach on the legislation.

Mr. McCormack

There is only one day left and I know it is not coming. It is quite clear that the Minister misled the Dáil.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy McCormack to allow the Taoiseach speak. As Deputy McCormack will be aware, colleagues of his are offering and we must move on to the next business.

Mr. McCormack

I am here all morning, as the Ceann Comhairle may have noticed.

An Ceann Comhairle

I appreciate that. If he allowed the Taoiseach to answer his question, we could get on with the business.

Mr. McCormack

I do not like being misled in this Chamber and giving that false information to my constituents.

An Ceann Comhairle

I ask Deputy McCormack to resume his seat. Let the Taoiseach speak on the question of the pharmacy (No. 1) Bill.

Mr. McCormack

I expect the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, to come in here to apologise for misleading the Dáil about not introducing that legislation in this session.

The Taoiseach

I certainly do not want to mislead Deputy McCormack, but the legislation is due this session. As I have stated on many occasions when legislation is promised to be published this session, the session runs until the day before the next session starts.

Mr. McCormack

I thank the Taoiseach for enlightening me, but I was not aware of that when I was informed.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would ask Deputy McCormack to allow Deputy Broughan speak.

Mr. McCormack

What does the pharmacist who has lost his contract do?

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

The Taoiseach is moving the goalposts.

The Taoiseach

It is an old rule from 1930.

Mr. McCormack

What is the Galway pharmacist, who has now lost his contract with the HSE because of this legislation, to do?

An Ceann Comhairle

I suggest Deputy McCormack put down a question to the Minister.

Mr. McCormack

I am not happy with that. What is the pharmacist in question to do?

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy McCormack does not resume his seat, we will move straight on to the next business. I call Deputy Broughan.

Mr. McCormack

I will resume my seat in deference to the Ceann Comhairle and the season that is in it.

Mr. Broughan

Three weeks ago yesterday the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, told me that, without fail, I could take it that the timeline will not be exceeded and within three weeks he would give a formal Government response on the report on behalf of the Stardust victims and relatives committee, Nothing but the Truth: the Case for a New Inquiry. Will the Taoiseach adhere to the deadline? Will he give a formal response to this important report?

The Taoiseach

The officials, the Tánaiste and I are dealing with that matter. It is more important that we get the response right, rather than meet the deadline, but we will do it.

Mr. Broughan

I was told. It is in black and white.

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the Taoiseach to answer.

The Taoiseach

I have just been dealing with a report which I told the House would be ready approximately two months ago and I stated this morning it will be extended until 14 February. It is better to get these matters right. We are dealing with something that occurred a quarter of a century ago.

Mr. Broughan

Exactly. It has not been dealt with.

The Taoiseach

We are doing our best with it. It will take a little time but if we want a quick answer, the answer will not be satisfactory. We are trying to find a solution.

Mr. Broughan

Is the Taoiseach saying the answer is "no"?

The Taoiseach

No. I am trying to find a way of being helpful to the people.

Mr. Broughan

Would the Taoiseach not appoint somebody to investigate it?

The Taoiseach

Wait another two weeks.

Mr. Broughan

It has been three weeks.

The Taoiseach

It has been 25 years.

Mr. Broughan

The Taoiseach was there.

Mr. Morgan

A Cheann Comhairle, as you and I will not encounter each other for the rest of this year, to our mutual relief probably, I wish you and everybody about the place a happy Christmas.

In 2005, 88 people were killed at work in Ireland, 73 of them here in the South and 15 in the North. There were only 40 prosecutions brought against employers resulting in fines averaging €7,000 — clearly, that is not a sanction. When will corporate manslaughter legislation be brought before this House to rein in these wayward employers?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is legislation promised?

The Taoiseach

There is no such legislation listed.

Mr. Morgan

My goodness.

Mr. Timmins

I wish to raise three issues. Would the Taoiseach ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to look at amending legislation to prohibit local authorities levying water rates on schools?

An Ceann Comhairle

The matter does not arise.

Mr. Timmins

Second, would he ask the Minister for Agriculture and Food to look at the ratio of farm inspections per farmer in County Wicklow because my understanding is it is high?

An Ceann Comhairle

Two questions to the Ministers concerned would elicit the answers Deputy Timmins requires.

Mr. Timmins

Third time lucky. Can we expect to see Nos. 3 and 4 on section A of the Government legislative programme, the Curragh of Kildare Bill and the defence amendment Bill, published before the end of this session?

Mr. P. McGrath

The extended session.

Mr. Durkan

On St. Stephen's Day.

The Taoiseach

The defence amendment Bill will be published. The Curragh of Kildare Bill, to the best of my knowledge, is still not completed.

Mr. Timmins

What about the school water rates? The Taoiseach knows how difficult it is for parents' committees to raise the money and they are paying up to a couple of thousand euros in some cases. He might ask the Minister to look at it.

Mr. Durkan

There is no money in the Exchequer.

The Taoiseach

We provided a large increase in capitation this year.

Mr. Stanton

I was told in July last that a decision has been made by the Government to transfer the community welfare service from the Department of Health and Children to the Department of Social and Family Affairs and that legislation is to be brought forward to do that. When will this legislation be published? What will be the title of the Bill or will it be part of another Bill?

The Taoiseach

No legislation is listed. Perhaps a question to the Minister would be appropriate.

Mr. Stanton

To be helpful, the Minister told me that no date has been set for completion of the transfer. The Minister indicated it is expected to bring forward legislation early in 2007. I just want to know when that legislation will be published and what will be its title?

The Taoiseach

If the Minister for Health and Children told Deputy Stanton she intended to bring in legislation in early 2007, she meant that.

Mr. Stanton

What will be the title of the Bill?

The Taoiseach

I do not have it listed.

Mr. Stanton

It is not planned at all then.

The Taoiseach

I do not have it listed.

Mr. Stanton

Could the Taoiseach let me know by written reply when it will be published?

The Taoiseach

I will pass on the query to the Minister.

Mr. Stanton

I thank the Taoiseach.

Mr. Stagg

Previously, I asked the Taoiseach about the proposal to change the law so that the Irish in Britain can receive Irish television signals from Ireland. I hope the Bill would be introduced today and there is still a possibility that this short Bill could be introduced tomorrow. Perhaps the Taoiseach will see what he can do in that regard.

The Taoiseach

I understood after the Cabinet meeting the other day that we had still a good chance of introducing it tomorrow.

Mr. Stagg

I heard that as well.

The Taoiseach

To the best of my knowledge, as of last night it was fairly close to completion.

Mr. Stagg

Perhaps the Taoiseach will give the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, a clip on the ear.

The Taoiseach

The Minister is helping me on this one.

Mr. Durkan

In view of the serious security situation that prevails at present, could I ask the Taoiseach if it is intended to take any particular precautions to protect postal workers and workers of other financial institutions?

An Ceann Comhairle

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Durkan

The postal and telecommunications services Bill——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will facilitate Deputy Durkan if he wants to raise the matter in another way.

Mr. Durkan

——was taken off the Order Paper. Does the Taoiseach wish to reintroduce it to address that issue?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach on the legislation.

The Taoiseach

No. The legislation was taken off the list.

An Ceann Comhairle

Before we move on to the next business, the Taoiseach wishes to address the House.

The Taoiseach

As I will be at the European Council tomorrow and Friday, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I would like to take this opportunity to wish you, your Office, the Clerk of the Dáil and all the members of staff here in the Houses of the Oireachtas every good wish for the Christmas period and to thank them very much for their co-operation throughout the year and for the long hours they put in to make this House function. I include in these wishes all of our staff, the ushers, the Superintendent of the House, the Captain of the Guard and all of the related staff, and also the clerical, administrative and secretarial staff who do so much work. The House has remained open far longer, and for longer hours, in recent years — perhaps more than the public believes — but it is through the dedication and support of all of the support services in the House that we all can do our jobs. I express my appreciation for their great efforts, which I know are appreciated by all Members.

I also want to thank the Oireachtas press corps who diligently report the issues of the House. I would wish them a happy Christmas in person if they were here, but I will do it in absentia.

Also over the past year on a number of occasions there have been expressions of sympathy here for former Members but also for relatives of present Members of the House, and it is fitting that we should remember the families of former Members and of deceased family members of present Members as well in our prayers over Christmas.

I would also like to extend best wishes to my colleagues on the Opposition benches, to Deputies Kenny, Rabbitte, Sargent and Ó Caoláin, and the Technical Group. While I spend my time answering all their difficult questions, it does not take away from my great admiration for them. We all have a hard job.

Mr. Sargent

Steady on.

The Taoiseach

We work hard and I can appreciate the job we all are doing. What the public think about us sometimes is unfair, but we all do our best to serve the public. I certainly admire my colleagues with whom I must deal every day. Even if we are fulfilling our parliamentary duties of being at loggerheads on this, that and the other matter, it does not take from my respect for them.

I thank my colleagues for their work during the year. Everyone associated with this House puts in a full and tough year. Christmas is the one time when we can collectively take a break and have the opportunity to relax and enjoy the season. On my behalf and on behalf of the Government, I wish everyone a very happy Christmas agus Nollaig faoi shéan is faoi mhaise daoibh go léir.

Mr. Kenny

I endorse the sentiments expressed by the Taoiseach and wish the Ceann Comhairle, his staff and the staff of the Houses of the Oireachtas a peaceful and happy Christmas. I thank them for their efforts during the year. I thank the Clerk of the Dáil and his staff for the smooth and efficient running of the House. I also thank members of the Garda, the press and everyone who does their jobs in the interests of democracy.

I wish my fellow party leaders, including the Taoiseach and the absent leader of the Progressive Democrats, a happy Christmas — I believe it is the Taoiseach's last Christmas on the Government benches.

The Taoiseach

As long as I am alive to see another one.

Mr. Kenny

I hope that all standing on the forthcoming hustings will be in good fettle for the fray in early January or whenever the Taoiseach decides to exercise his constitutional authority and responsibility in dissolving the Dáil.

I thank the Taoiseach for his remarks. As far as I am concerned, politics should never stray into personal remarks. We have a political job to do and everyone understands that. I endorse the sentiments expressed by the Taoiseach and wish all Members a happy Christmas and good fortune and health for 2007.

Mr. Rabbitte

Let me join the Taoiseach and Deputy Kenny in thanking the Ceann Comhairle and all the staff across the Houses for their unfailing courtesy and contribution throughout the year. I wish them and their families a very happy Christmas. That wish is also extended to all my colleagues. The spirit of Christmas has clearly already descended on the Taoiseach — he has been so inclusive that there must be a chance of him pulling a coalition partner out of somewhere.

Mr. P. McGrath

Is the Deputy's party on the list?

Mr. Rabbitte

Whatever the outcome of the election, I hope we are all well and alive to see it.

Mr. Sargent

I wish the Taoiseach well for his European Council meeting. Perhaps he can return with a clear Government position on climate change before breaking for Christmas.

I wish the Ceann Comhairle and the staff who keep the Houses of the Oireachtas working in such an efficient manner, notwithstanding all the challenges and unsocial working hours, a happy Christmas. On behalf of the Green Party, An Comhaontas Glas, I reciprocate the Christmas greetings to the Taoiseach and Deputies Kenny and Rabbitte. I hope that goodwill will extend beyond political differences and keep us focused on the challenges that face us. These go beyond any single party or the term of any Government, the energy crisis being the one that springs to mind most often.

The spirit of inclusiveness is reflected in the amount of colour on the Christmas tree on Leinster Lawn. It is indicative of an inclusive spirit that has descended on the decorators as well as on the Taoiseach. That the predominant colour is green is incidental, it is nonetheless interesting to see such a festively decorated tree compared to the bland but attractive colour schemes of previous years. Perhaps there has been a change of thinking.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

It may be a sign of a rainbow.

An Ceann Comhairle

On behalf of the Leas-Cheann Chomhairle and myself, I thank the party leaders for their comments. I take this opportunity to thank the Clerk, the assistant clerk, the ushers, the staff in my office and everyone in the House and its precincts who ensure that we are able to go about our business in a very efficient and effective way.

I know how hard my parliamentary colleagues work, not just when the Dáil is in session but also when it is out of session. I am sure my medical colleagues in the House will agree with me when I say that everyone should take a reasonable break over the Christmas period. I thank my parliamentary colleagues for their co-operation during the year and wish everyone in the House a very happy Christmas.