Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 30 Apr 2008

Vol. 653 No. 3

Leaders’ Questions.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Everybody in the country recognises the scale of the challenge facing our economy and our people as a nation. The announcement by the Dell Corporation yesterday will send shivers down the spine of many involved in employment. Dell is an iconic employer, listed No. 34 on the Fortune 500, with massive revenue all over the world. These job losses in Cherrywood and in Limerick are obviously a cause of concern for everybody, principally because those involved are mainly young workers and this is happening at a time of deterioration in our economy, which means it will be a great challenge for Government. In that sense, the loss of competitiveness in recent years is a cause of serious concern.

The fact that there are nearly 200,000 people on the live register, we have had the highest inflation rate in the euro zone in recent years, this situation leaves almost 100,000 young people facing negative equity, there is a collapse in the housing market and a virtual total collapse of the second-hand car market are also causes of concern to many people. The Tánaiste and Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, will be acutely aware of the implications of all this.

We are leading into a position where the Government enters seriously pay talks at a crucial time. This is obviously a matter of grave concern to workers and unions who represent them. From that perspective, the Tánaiste spoke out last week about the high pay increases given to persons in the private sector. He will recall that the pay increases recommended for Ministers and members of the Government are directly linked to those pay increases. In the context of those crucial pay agreements, will he, as Tánaiste and Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach elect, show an act of leadership by rejecting, instead of deferring, the recommended pay increases for Ministers in view of the fact that workers all over the country are being asked to tighten their belts?

The Tánaiste

On the situation Deputy Kenny refers to regarding the slow-down in global growth, from which we will not be immune, it is clear that the issue of competitiveness and higher productivity is critical to ensuring that we come through this period in the economic cycle better than others, as we did in the past. In the context of pay talks, which have just commenced, I indicated the need to focus on increased productivity as a criterion that needs to be addressed in the context of any suggested pay increases because it is the only way in which we can maintain jobs and not see a deterioration in job security in the economy generally.

The Deputy referred specifically to the remuneration body which came forward with benchmarking for higher paid officeholders, including politicians. As he will be aware, we made a differentiated decision on politicians vis-à-vis other high earners. The pay talks have just begun and I do not intend to anticipate the outcome of those discussions except to say that obviously the Government is anxious to sit down with partners and address the issues in a way that will meet the requirements of everybody.

Deputy Enda Kenny

The Tánaiste will be well aware that what one might call ordinary TDs are linked to principal officers and in terms of their pay there were no recommendations under the benchmarking system. The recommendations for pay increases of between €30,000 and €38,000 for members of the Government were directly linked to the private sector pay increases that the Tánaiste spoke about last week. He stated here on 3 April last that this House should have the courage to change recommendations of independent commissions if it saw fit and if it thought that a wrong should be put right. In the context of his reply to Deputy Bruton last week, when he stated that the Government has not revisited this decision, does the Tánaiste have a personal view, as the Taoiseach elect, on whether it is appropriate for members of the Government to receive pay increases of between €30,000 and €38,000 when every other worker in the country is being asked to accept realistic pay increases and to tighten their belts?

In the context of his words about his political role models, the late Seán Lemass and, indeed, the late Paddy Hillery, does the Tánaiste, on his assumption to the seat of power next week, intend to show political leadership to every worker in the country by rejecting the ministerial pay recommendations? This would send a clear message that he means business in meeting the economic challenge faced by the country and that everybody, including those from the top down, can play their part in that.

The Tánaiste

The higher remuneration body referred to the pay comparability of officeholders with the lower quartile of the private sector. The references I made last week were in respect of the highest earners who were earning millions of euro that they were obtaining obviously with shareholder approval, which is in compliance with company law but which, in terms of the message it sends — I was simply making the point — was important in the context of pay talks.

On Deputy Kenny's specific question about the Government decision, the decision, to which I was a party, was taken to defer the increase. That decision does not apply to other persons who will receive pay awards under that pay body recommendation. We deferred the increase for a year and then it will be paid over three further years.

The issue here is that the pay talks have begun and a contribution from all sides can be made in the context of those pay talks and those negotiations, but not beforehand.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

Did the Tánaiste see the RTE "Prime Time" programme last night about homeless people? If not, I recommend that he take a look at it. The programme showed that seven homeless persons died in this city over Easter. It showed the reporter on the programme trying to make telephone contact with the 24-hour emergency homeless service. He started ringing it at 10 p.m. but did not get through until after midnight and was then told there was no bed available. The programme went on to explain that a number of facilities which have been built and provided with public money are either not open or are operating under capacity, because the money has not been provided to staff them. The programme gave an example of a 30-bed unit on James's Street that was built for €7 million but which is not yet open because the money has not been provided for staffing. It showed that in Cork Street, only half of the 23 units designed for families are in use. Only seven of the 17 units in Brunswick Street are in use, while a facility on Abbey Street for homeless people congregating on the river boardwalk is not functioning.

I raised this very issue with the Tánaiste on 28 February, when I drew his attention to reports at the time that cutbacks by the HSE would result in facilities for homeless people not being made available. The Tánaiste told me at the time that there were no cutbacks in existing services and there would be no cutbacks in new services. Following last night's programme, does he now accept that there are in fact cutbacks? Does he accept that these services are not operating? When will these services for homeless people be fully operational and when will the money necessary to staff them be provided?

The Tánaiste

I did not see the programme, although I heard about it. If I can get an opportunity to see it, I will do so in due course. The homeless issue is important and something we need to address. Resources have been increased in this area from €12.5 million a few years ago to over €52 million this year, and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government provides this funding to meet accommodation related running costs of homeless facilities, as well as capital funding for their development. The responsibility of funding care-related costs of homeless facilities rests with the HSE, which is providing €33 million this year. Therefore, there have not been any cutbacks in the provision of services over and above previous years.

The issue that seems to be arising is the co-ordination between capital projects coming on stream from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the concomitant availability of resources from the HSE to deal with care-related costs that arise therefrom. It would appear that the situation highlighted in last night's programme points to the need to co-ordinate the availability of revenue resources as the capital projects become available.

The Deputy also mentioned specific cases, such as the 30-bed facility aimed at providing long-term supported accommodation in James's Street. I understand that the facility has only recently been completed. It is expected to help ease pressure on emergency accommodation, allowing improved response levels to those seeking such accommodation on a nightly basis. Haven House has 15 single units, 17 family units and two rough sleeper beds. The single units and the rough sleeper beds are currently operational and there are seven of the 17 family units open. These will be additional services to what has been available last year, so I do not accept that there have been cutbacks. What is required is the need to co-ordinate the availability of revenue resources once the capital projects are completed. I have asked the relevant Ministers and Ministers of State in the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government to meet on this issue and see if it can be improved in the short term.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

The Tánaiste's reply is a description of a failure of the Government. There is a national homeless strategy in existence. The different agencies got together and agreed how all of this would be tied up. The Tánaiste has described a failure of the Government to co-ordinate it and make it happen. The fact is that beds for homeless people have been provided and they are available, but they are not available to homeless people. A person can call up at 10 p.m. and will find it difficult to get somebody on the phone, but when someone gets to the phone two hours later the person is told that there is no bed available. There is no bed available because somebody somewhere between the Minister of State with responsibility for homelessness, the HSE, the homeless agencies, the local authorities and the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government does not have their act together to ensure the beds are provided.

Meanwhile, anybody who cares to walk around these streets after 9 p.m. will find where the homeless people are. I invite Ministers to get out of their cars and take a walk around these streets to look for examples. They include the doorways of St. Anne's church on Dawson Street, the European Parliament building which is just down the road and the old Habitat shop on St. Stephen's Green. They will be in those doorways from about 8.30 p.m. until about 9.00 a.m. because somebody on that side of the House has not got the finger out to make sure that the money and the resources are provided, so that these beds provided from taxpayers' money are made available to the homeless people. There is a need for some urgency to be put into this. These beds are available, but the doors are locked on them. When will they be made available to the homeless people who are lying in doorways around the streets within a half mile of this building?

The Tánaiste

It is somewhat unfair to suggest that the Government is indifferent to this issue, or that it has not been making significant progress in this area. Anybody who is dealing with the issue would recognise that additional resources have been provided and that improvements have been made. The emergency accommodation in major urban centres has been addressed and sleeping rough around the country has been significantly reduced, especially in Dublin, where the new homeless agency has improved co-ordination. Discharge protocols are in place for those at risk of homelessness who are leaving acute or psychiatric hospital. The new strategy proposes to build on those successes through longer-term options such as social housing, the rental accommodation scheme and long-term supported accommodation with on-site specialist care.

Improvements have been made, but what was highlighted relates to an issue that requires further discussion between the Departments and the agencies to see how we can improve the current situation. As I understand it, the capital projects may have come on sooner than expected for the revenue that was due to be made available. That has happened on many occasions. It is a question of figuring out how that can be improved upon.