Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 7 Oct 2008

Vol. 662 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 9, Supplementary Estimate for Public Services [Vote 31]; No. 10, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimate [Vote 40]; No. 11, motion re referral of Supplementary Estimate [Vote 40] to select committee; No. 12, motion re referral to select committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the instruments as contemplated by Article 3(2) of the Agreements on Extradition and Mutual Legal Assistance between the European Union and the United States of America; No. 22, Legal Services Ombudsman Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 23, Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed); and No. 24, Broadcasting Bill 2008 [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. 9, 10 and 12 and, subject to the agreement of No. 10, No. 11 — referral to select committee — shall be decided without debate and that any divisions demanded on Nos. 9 to 11, inclusive, shall be taken forthwith. Private Members' business shall be No. 49, motion re unemployment.

An Ceann Comhairle

There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 9 to 12, inclusive, without debate agreed to? Agreed.

Deputy Enda Kenny

I was going to ask the Taoiseach if the explosives Bill would be introduced next week, but perhaps I will not do so. In view of the fact that the guarantee for the financial institutions has not yet been approved by the Government, does the Taoiseach expect it to be laid before the House on Thursday or will that happen next week?

Will the Taoiseach clarify the position on the proposed referendum on children's rights, particularly in the context of statutory rape? I understand the Government will not be making a report to the relevant committee but that the members of Fianna Fáil who serve on the committee will do so. I do not know whether their report will be made on behalf of their entire party. Is it the Taoiseach's intention to have the committee complete its work or is he intent on following through on the commitment in the programme for Government regarding holding a referendum on children's rights?

The Taoiseach

The position on the second matter to which the Deputy refers is to see whether a consensus can emerge from the committee on the best way to proceed. Fianna Fáil members on the committee have brought forward a substantial submission in an attempt to assist in that effort to build a consensus. However, as the Leader of the Opposition stated, the Government has not yet come to a conclusion on the matter and is waiting to see whether the committee can arrive at an agreed way forward.

The scheme relating to the financial guarantee will be brought before the House as soon as possible and practicable. Deputy Kenny will be aware that the Minister for Finance is attending an ECOFIN meeting today, that he attended a Eurogroup meeting and that he met the EU Competition Commissioner last night. The Minister had a very constructive meeting with the Commissioner. What he is doing is informing the preparation, which is at an advanced stage, of the scheme and the framework being drafted. Based on the briefing issued on foot of these meetings, an effort is being made to examine ways we can assist in dealing with any queries the European Commission may wish to raise in order to address all of the matters outstanding.

Institutions outside the six named banks may wish to make applications to be covered under the scheme. We will give consideration to those applications but we cannot reach conclusions in respect of them until we identify the terms and conditions that will apply to such institutions and then discover whether they wish to proceed on the basis of agreeing to those terms and conditions. The situation is evolving. We are trying to obtain and provide a complete picture.

Deputy Enda Kenny

Does the Taoiseach expect the scheme to be laid before the House this week?

The Taoiseach

Hopefully. I will be meeting the Minister for Finance on his return in order to obtain an update briefing on where matters stand regarding the preparation of the scheme. I understand preparation of the scheme has been ongoing over the weekend. Developments have been made as a result of the meetings that took place. An attempt is being made to finalise the scheme in a way that it will, if possible, satisfy everyone. That is what we are trying to do. I will probably be in a better position tomorrow to indicate what might be the likely timeline.

Deputy Eamon Gilmore

When the legislation was debated last week, the Minister for Finance informed Members that the scheme would be brought before the House this week. It appears from the Taoiseach's reply that matters are beginning to drift. When does the Taoiseach expect the scheme to be finalised and brought before the House? Have any of the financial institutions concerned been involved in the discussions taking place on the content of the scheme? When it is brought forward by the Government, will the scheme be open to amendment by the House?

The Taoiseach

What is being considered is bringing forward the scheme and laying it before the Houses of the Oireachtas for discussion in order that people might give their views on it. I will be obliged to discuss with the Minister for Finance what will be the exact mechanics of the process. I am aware that he sought to provide an assurance that the scheme would be brought before the House this week. However, we want to get it right and deal with any emerging issues. As the Deputy is aware, this is an evolving situation. Many meetings took place in Europe at the weekend, the Eurogroup met last night and ECOFIN met today. The Minister is returning home from these meetings this evening and I will discuss the matter with him at that stage. I will be in a position tomorrow morning to update the House on precisely where matters stand.

Deputy Joan Burton

I am glad the Minister is introducing the scheme which was the subject of the Labour Party's first amendment on Committee Stage. However, a difficulty arises. Will the Opposition be briefed on a regular basis, particularly if implementation of the scheme is delayed? There are a number of serious and pressing questions. For example, has the Financial Regulator yet been empowered to increase supervision in respect of the applicant banks? Is there any protection for the economy in respect of the flow of "hot money" and other assets into this jurisdiction from those seeking to avail of the guarantee?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the detail of the scheme now.

Deputy Joan Burton

These are important questions——

An Ceann Comhairle

I know.

Deputy Joan Burton

——and we want to be briefed——

An Ceann Comhairle

We will ask the Taoiseach if there will be a briefing.

Deputy Joan Burton

——in order that we might gain some knowledge as to the likely shape of the scheme. The latter is important, particularly in the context of ensuring stability and security.

The Taoiseach

In the first instance, the Minister for Finance must be given an opportunity to brief me and the Government on the up-to-date position. We will then be obliged to take account of the various emerging and evolving issues. It is important that we get this matter right. In getting it right we must take into account whatever views are expressed at various fora. We must also show our co-operative spirit and make efforts to see if we can, to the greatest extent possible, address any concerns or issues being raised. The Government must give careful consideration to these matters. When they have been considered, we will proceed to finalising the terms and conditions of the scheme. The best I can do at this stage is to say I will be discussing the matter with the Minister later this evening. I will be in a better position to deal more comprehensively with the issue tomorrow morning. At this point, I can only provide Members with the information I have to hand.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

I wish to raise the matter of marine safety in the context of promised legislation under the International Convention for the Safety of Lives at Sea, SOLAS. Will the Taoiseach intervene in respect of the Irish Coast Guard station at Valentia? On 17 July 2003 the then Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Dermot Ahern, decided to close down operations in Dublin and expand those at Valentia and Malin Head.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot ask further questions on that matter.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

On 21 October 2003 the then Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, announced, for which he must receive credit, the closure of operations in Dublin and the expansion of those at Valentia and Malin Head.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must find another way to raise that matter.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

On 1 June 2004 an article in The Irish Times stated Irish Coast Guard staff in Dublin——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must desist. What he is doing is completely out of order.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

——had launched a petition in respect of the proposed closure plan.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy wishes to raise this matter, in order, he should please do so and we will try to facilitate him.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

I tried to raise it by way of a private notice question but was not allowed to do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot proceed in this manner. I call Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

The people of Valentia deserve——

An Ceann Comhairle

I have called Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

I appreciate that the Ceann Comhairle wants to deal with this matter but that he cannot do so.

Deputy Jim O’Keeffe

The Ceann Comhairle understands the Deputy's concerns.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

We have a colleague who can deal with the matter but he will not do so.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

I ask the Taoiseach to please intervene in respect of the Valentia Island Coast Guard station——

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy raises the matter properly, he will be heard. I call Deputy Bannon.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

The people there deserve——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must ask the Deputy to resume his seat. I do not like being obliged to do so.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

A Cheann Comhairle, I have——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must resume his seat when the Chair is on his feet. I promise him we will try to raise the matter in an orderly way. I will discuss it later with him in my office.

Deputy Tom Sheahan

I must do this. I know the Ceann Comhairle wants to raise the matter and deal with it, but because of his position he cannot. I am the only one here from Kerry South who can raise it.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will discuss the issue with the Deputy in my office to see how it can be raised.

Deputy James Bannon

Last June, while debating the Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008, I said I was surprised the Sale of Alcohol Bill had not yet seen the light of day. This Bill is now on the A list of the legislative programme for the coming session. Will the Taoiseach give us a guarantee that it will be dealt with during this session?

The Taoiseach

It is on the list because it is a priority set by the Department. However, whether it is taken this or next session depends on whether we make progress on the work involved. There are important Bills for the House this session. Given that the budget is being taken early, we will have to deal with the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill. We will have to see how we get on.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

The Air Navigation and Transport (Pre-Clearance) Bill provides for the introduction of pre-clearance facilities at Dublin and Shannon Airports for US-bound passengers. What is the position on progress and negotiations with the United States? When will the Bill be brought before the Dáil? In order to operate such a scheme, it is vital to have a sustainable transatlantic service. What is the Taoiseach's view on this, taking into account the proposal made by Aer Lingus today to no longer have a cabin crew based at Shannon? What effect does he think this will have?

With regard to the transatlantic service, it is vital to have a multinational sector. Will the Taoiseach confirm whether the Government has been informed, directly or indirectly, by Dell if it intends to leave Limerick?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

I tried to raise it twice on the Adjournment last week and wrote to the Taoiseach about it three weeks ago.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will have to do the same again. His matter may be selected this week. The Taoiseach on the legislation.

The Taoiseach

I understand the air transport pre-clearance legislation is due to be introduced next year.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

I would like the opportunity to raise this matter. Will the Ceann Comhairle allow me to raise it on the Adjournment? It is a vital issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

I cannot deal with it now. The Deputy should put the matter down for the Adjournment and I will try to facilitate him.

Deputy Joe McHugh

I welcome the fact that the Ceann Comhairle is willing to discuss the matter raised by Deputy Tom Sheahan with him. Would it be possible for me to join in that consultation?

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes.

Deputy Joe McHugh

Let me make a suggestion with regard to the legislation. In 2003 the then Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, showed prudence at a time when his colleagues were poisoning the Celtic tiger. He showed prudence by considering the suggestion that capacity at Malin Head and Valentia be expanded.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into that matter now. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Deputy Joe McHugh

At this time economic prudence——

An Ceann Comhairle

When the Chair is on his feet, the Deputy must resume his seat. That is the rule since long before he or I came to the House.

Deputy Joe McHugh

The Government must show prudence now. It is a matter of life and death.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is in danger of being given a red card.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

The dentists Bill has been removed from the legislative programme. This is long promised legislation. As a consequence of the withdrawal of the dental scheme, many people dependent on the medical card are suffering. What is the explanation for this and what steps does the Taoiseach propose to take to have the Bill returned to the legislative programme? Will he undertake to fast-track its introduction in the House?

The new social partnership agreement was finalised recently and is now the subject of debate across the trade union movement. When will the Dáil have the opportunity to debate it? Will we get that opportunity in the near future and is legislation required? The promise was made time and again, particularly after the Irish Ferries debacle, that there would be no repeat of what was experienced on that occasion. However, we now see Aer Lingus — Irish Ferries mark 2 — promising to replicate this devastating blow on Irish workers. Will legislation be brought forward and will we have the debate on the new social partnership agreement in the House soon?

The Taoiseach

On the dentists Bill, a consultative process was launched to lead to the development of a national oral health policy. This new policy is to involve a comprehensive review of service delivery, manpower planning and training and the regulation of the dental profession in Ireland. It will make wide-ranging recommendations on oral health policy for the next ten years. It was originally envisaged that the policy would be finalised by the middle of this year, but the timeline has been extended, at least to the end of the year, given the complexity and range of issues involved and to facilitate the widest possible consultation with the various stakeholders. It is envisaged that the policy will make clear recommendations on the need for a new regulatory regime for the profession in Ireland, the establishment of a new dental council and the development of a new dentists Bill to give effect to these changes. For these reasons, the dental Bill will not be taken until that policy input is assessed and agreed.

There is no legislation required for the ratification of the public service pay agreement. The transitional agreement agreed last month in draft form is being put and considered by the stakeholders. We hope it will be put to a vote with a recommendation of acceptance.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Will it be discussed in the House?

The Taoiseach

There will be an opportunity to discuss it in the context of the budget debate as part of public sector pay policy generally.

Deputy Phil Hogan

When is the designated land Bill likely to come before the House?

The Taoiseach

I understand it will not be introduced before next year.

Deputy Seán Barrett

When will the industrial relations (amendment) Bill be published? Will it be published in the next couple of weeks?

The Taoiseach

We hope it will be published this session.

Deputy Denis Naughten

When will we see the nursing home support Bill? Does the Government intend to have it enacted prior to the end of the year, seeing as we will have competing Bills such as the Finance Bill, etc.? When will the adoption Bill be published?

The Taoiseach

Both Bills will be published this session. I hope the nursing home support Bill will be published very soon.

Deputy Seán Sherlock

When will the forestry (amendment) Bill and the foreshore (amendment) Bill be published? May we have the exact dates for publication? With regard to the animal health and welfare Bill, given that this legislation has been included in the legislative programme for over a year and extensive consultation has taken place, why has the Bill not being brought before the House to date? Although I have been in the House for over a year, I have not yet received a proper explanation as to the reason the Bill has not yet been published. I am Labour Party spokesperson on agriculture and I am dying to get my teeth into legislation, but we have not had any from the Department during this time. We also deserve an explanation for this.

We go through the same charade every week. Members want to raise issues affecting their constituencies, but are prevented from doing so.

An Ceann Comhairle

We have to move on. The Taoiseach on the legislation.

Deputy Seán Sherlock

We need to have some light on the rules and regulations because this is an archaic institution in the way it is being operated.

An Ceann Comhairle

If it is, it is not my fault.

The Taoiseach

The first two Bills mentioned will not be published this year. I understand it will be next year at the earliest before they are published. With regard to the animal welfare Bill, a consultation process is taking place and until it is completed the legislation will not arise.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I wish to ask the Ceann Comhairle if I can be involved in his generous offer of discussions on services at Valentia and Malin, given that the former Minister and the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, is sitting in the front row.

An Ceann Comhairle

Yes.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

I have indicated that Dublin, Valentia and Malin are the best combination of sites on safety grounds.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot go into the matter now.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

My question for the Taoiseach concerns the plans of Aer Lingus and the implications for jobs in north Dublin, the mid-west and the Shannon area. I ask him to arrange for the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, to brief us——

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot deal with that matter now.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

——given that we are deep into a recession and may be heading into a depression——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must move on.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

——if the Government remains in power much longer.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must find another way of raising that matter.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

We urgently need to discuss all aspects of what is being planned at Aer Lingus——

An Ceann Comhairle

We must move on.

Deputy Thomas P. Broughan

——given the stated intention of its competitor, Ryanair, to take over and eviscerate the company.