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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Oct 2009

Vol. 691 No. 4

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Departmental Staff.

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

1 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the number of staff, broken down by grade, currently employed in the Attorney General’s office engaged in the drafting of legislation; the number of vacancies in such grades or positions; the vacancies in the Attorney General’s office which have been advertised since the beginning of 2008; the positions which have been filled; if he is satisfied that there are sufficient staff and resources available to the Office of the Attorney General to facilitate the prompt and efficient drafting of legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30231/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

2 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number of staff currently assigned to the Office of the Attorney General; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35605/09]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

I am advised by the Attorney General that currently the sanctioned complement of permanent staff in the Office of the Attorney General is 133. There are 117 staff members serving and 16 vacancies. The office also currently has 13 contract staff. The breakdown among the various parts of the office is as follows: the advisory side of the office currently has 33 permanent staff serving with one vacancy and, due to part-time working arrangements, the equivalent of one further vacancy.

The Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, OPC, currently has 23 permanent staff engaged in the drafting of legislation. There are also four vacancies at assistant parliamentary counsel grade II, which is the entry level for drafting staff. The breakdown by grade of permanent drafting posts is as follows: one chief parliamentary counsel; one first parliamentary counsel; four parliamentary counsel; seven assistant parliamentary counsel grade I; and 14 assistant parliamentary counsel grade II, including the four vacancies. In addition, there are currently five consultant parliamentary counsel engaged on a contract basis in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel to the Government to draft legislation.

The administrative side of the office has 61 staff serving and ten vacancies. Due to the moratorium on recruitment and the need to make savings, there are no plans to fill these vacancies. Eight other contract staff are engaged by the office. Four are legal researchers, three are the Attorney General's private staff and one is engaged as a research assistant. Two legal researcher positions have been left vacant since last autumn as cost saving measures. The complement of staff in the Office of the Attorney General is kept under constant review to ensure it is sufficient to meet the demands of the Government's legislative programme.

I thank the Taoiseach for putting on record quite an amount of detail in respect of the staffing of the Attorney General's office. He said the total staffing complement is 133. The an bord snip nua report states the staffing complement in 2007 was 138. Will the Taoiseach explain this difference? Is it due to temporary contracts? Are there vacancies and are they likely to be filled? How many temporary contracts have been renewed? In particular, how many have been renewed since March 2008 when the ban was imposed on the renewal of such contracts? Is the Taoiseach satisfied the staffing complement in the Attorney General's office is sufficient to meet the office's requirements and, in particular, to meet the requirement to maintain the flow of legislation to the House?

I refer to the tenure and duties of contract staff. The office currently engages 13 staff on a contract basis. Three are engaged in the Attorney General's private office and their tenure is directly linked to that of the Attorney General. Two provide clerical support and one is his special assistant. Five are engaged in drafting legislation with their contracts set to expire in April 2010, two in June 2010, July 2010 and August 2010. Four are engaged as legal researchers to ensure the legal staff involved in advisory and drafting work can concentrate on the more complex aspects of cases or legislation. Their contracts are due to expire between April and August 2010. One is engaged on a part-time basis on the statute law revision project to identify obsolete legislation and bring a Bill to the House to remove it from the Statute Book and that contract expires in November 2010. The office is fully supportive of the Government strategy to reduce public sector numbers. It has ten vacancies for permanent staff and two for contract research staff, which it is not seeking to fill due to the need to make savings.

The number of drafters of legislation has increased since the last parliamentary question in February 2008. There are 23 permanent drafting staff and five consultant drafters now, with a further person expected to join the permanent drafting staff shortly, compared with 19 permanent drafting staff and four consultant drafters when Deputy Gilmore's parliamentary question was last answered in February 2008. Also, a recruitment panel is in place following a competition last year.

The Attorney General's office is considering approaching the Department of Finance to discuss the filling of some of the remaining drafting vacancies. The intention is to eliminate the use of contract drafters once sufficient permanent drafting staff are in place.

We should do something about questions to the Taoiseach. They come up every month or six weeks and the same rota is used. It might be better if we dispensed with these ordinary questions. We might have them twice a month but choose priority issues that the Taoiseach would have notice of, such as Northern Ireland or whatever. This rota is used all the time and the same questions are raised by myself and Deputy Gilmore. I believe it is a waste of time but I will ask my question anyway. The Chief Whip might take note of that element of Dáil reform.

I am glad the Taoiseach mentioned an increase in the permanent staff in the legislative preparation section of the Attorney General's office. It never ceases to amaze me why, year after year, we produce lists as to the legislation it is intended to be produced yet the Bills rarely see the light of day on time. We are waiting for the noise pollution Bill, the roads Bill, the amalgamation of quangos legislation — FETAC, HETAC and the National Qualifications Authority of Ireland, NQAI — and legislation covering the regulation and licensing of public and private hospitals. I accept it takes particular expertise to become a drafter of legislation but it would appear that we need a more defined schedule as to when the Bills can be produced. The Taoiseach might indicate something in that area.

Arising from the recent agreement between the Green Party and Fianna Fáil, I understand the animal health and welfare Bill, which will put an end to fur farming and stag hunting, will be produced eventually. Does the Taoiseach have any idea when that is expected or will it be at the end of 2010?

The Taoiseach might respond to some of those points.

The questions relate to the staffing arrangements in the Attorney General's office. I would make the point that Opposition Deputies ask about this Bill or that Bill and if it is put on a B or C list and then removed in the interest of being more accurate, we are asked why——

It might be for some suspicious reason.

——and told to put it back on.

Perhaps the Taoiseach has a long B list.

We need a thread of consistency in that regard. We must streamline the situation but sometimes the argument becomes circular.

Regarding the Bills published so far this year, there was a large number of them compared with recent full years. In 2005 there were 28; 42 in 2006; 38 in 2007; 33 in 2008; and to date in 2009 41 have been published. Some long, complex Bills including the NAMA legislation and other financially related legislation have been included in that. The throughput has been exceptional given the complexity of the legislation. We sometimes look at volumes of legislation without considering whether Bills are simple or complex in scope. The NAMA legislation has rightly taken up a huge amount of time as a priority and the Attorney General and his office have been outstanding in seeking to bring all that together, with others, including the National Treasury Management Agency.

On the other issues the Deputy raised, those are usually dealt with by licensing arrangements and can be dealt with in that way.

How many drafters are on contract? The Taoiseach said that will be phased out, which is appropriate, but how many are on contract? Are they resident here or are we using drafting contractors from abroad, as was the case previously?

I said in my earlier reply that there were four contract drafters but it is important to point out that a recruitment panel has been drawn up. It is the intention over time to replace contract staff with permanent staff. We are constantly trying to build up expertise. We also know that from time to time it is appropriate to seek some assistance in the private sector through legal firms or whatever that would assist in the drafting of legislation. It must be pointed out that no matter how well that is done it comes back to the Attorney General's office for validation and checking by the Attorney General before it can be taken as a Government Bill. It is always a question of trying to mix and match what is the most efficient and effective way of proceeding. Ideally, it is about making sure that in this very technical area the expertise built up over many years is transferred to permanent staff complements in the office to ensure that institutional memory and expertise is retained. Despite the constraints in terms of recruitment, staffing, resources, etc., that impinge on the Attorney General's office no more than anywhere else, he has been doing a very good job in that respect.

Is there redeployment or inter-transferability between the varying staffs of the Office of the Attorney General, the Advisory Council, the Parliamentary Counsel, the Chief State Solicitor's office and the statute law revision unit or are their respective specialisations a barrier to that interchangeability in terms of staff movement? Will the Taoiseach indicate if there is the prospect for a range of experiences in terms of those who take up posts within the broad ambit of the Attorney General's office?

Recruitment panels have been drawn up based on those who indicate an interest. In the broad State-legal apparatus it is possible for personnel from various related activities to do the appropriate tests to determine if they can get on those panels. I am sure there have been occasions when the people working in the Chief State Solicitor's office transferred to the Attorney General's office. Sometimes people come directly into the Attorney General's office having qualified at the Bar. Depending on the grades and the level of expertise required it may be possible to take in directly people in the legal profession or build up expertise from within the office or related offices.

EU Summits.

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

3 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he has received an agenda for the EU summit in October 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30232/09]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

4 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with other EU leaders since the June 2009 summit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30233/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

5 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach when he will next meet with the President of the European Commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30621/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

6 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent contacts with other European Union Heads of Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30625/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

7 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he has received an agenda for the October 2009 meeting of the European Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30629/09]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Question:

8 Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach his priorities for the next meeting of the European Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31177/09]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

9 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the special meeting of EU leaders in Brussels on 17 September 2009 to coordinate the EU position in advance of the G20 summit. [33519/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

10 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the special EU summit meeting in Brussels on 17 September 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33520/09]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

11 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the Lisbon referendum on 2 October 2009. [35228/09]

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

12 Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach if he has had discussions with other EU leaders regarding the outcome of the Lisbon referendum on 2 October 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35229/09]

Enda Kenny

Question:

13 Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contacts with other European Union Heads of Government following the constitutional referendum on the Lisbon treaty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35231/09]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 13, inclusive, together.

I have received a draft annotated agenda for the European Council in Brussels on 29 and 30 October. Discussions at the Council will focus on institutional issues, climate change, the economic situation, macro-regional strategies, illegal immigration and external relations. I will also take the opportunity to brief my colleagues on the "Yes" vote in the Lisbon treaty referendum.

As I said in my statement on the outcome of the referendum last week, the resounding "Yes" vote was a good day for Ireland and a good day for Europe. The Irish people have ensured that the European Union functions more efficiently and effectively for all its citizens in dealing with global problems such as climate change or international crime prevention, to name just two. They have signalled to the other 26 member states that they want to remain at the centre of a stronger, fairer and better Europe. I believe Ireland's membership of the European Union is vital to our future prosperity and growth and the result of this referendum clearly shows that I am not the only one who believes this to be so.

I also reiterate my words of thanks to all those who contributed to the "Yes" vote, including my own party members and Government colleagues, the other parties in this House, the civil society groups, business groups, trade unions, community organisations and the various other people who lent their support to the treaty.

I spoke with a number of my colleagues from the European Council, including the President, Prime Minister Reinfeldt of Sweden, Chancellor Merkel, Prime Minister Brown and President Sarkozy, following the "Yes" vote on that date. I have since spoken with Prime Minister Zapatero and Chancellor Faymann. They congratulated the people of Ireland on the outcome of the vote and said it was an important day for all concerned. They said they were looking forward to moving past the institutional changes that had been the focus of the European Council for so long to other pressing issues which face all our countries and citizens.

I would like to put on the record of the House my appreciation for the efforts of all my colleagues at the European Council who listened to the concerns of the Irish people and made sure that they were met. I travelled to Brussels on 17 September for an informal meeting of Heads of State and Government. The meeting was called by Prime Minister Reinfeldt to ensure a co-ordinated EU position for G20 talks on recovery from the financial crisis. Discussions at the meeting focused on improving international financial regulation to ensure that there is no repeat of the financial crisis, and climate change, where the EU continues to lead in the build-up to the December Copenhagen conference. I also used the meeting to brief colleagues on the Lisbon treaty referendum campaign.

There are three areas in which I want to ask supplementary questions of the Taoiseach. I share the Taoiseach's welcome of the decision in the recent referendum on the Lisbon treaty and join with him in expressing the appreciation of the Labour Party, particularly to the many civil society groups which participated in the referendum campaign.

What is the Taoiseach's current understanding of the Czech Government's position on the ratification of the Lisbon treaty? My understanding is that President Klaus is refusing to sign the ratification instrument of the treaty and is seeking some kind of an opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights for the Czech Republic. I saw press reports to the effect that the Czech Government intends to bring that issue to the summit meeting in October.

In regard to the October summit, three sets of appointments must now be made. The first is the appointment of President of the European Council. The name of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair has been mentioned in that context as a possible candidate. Is it intended to make that appointment at the October summit and what is the position of the Government on appointing a President of the European Council? Does the Government have a preferred candidate or is a range of candidates being considered?

What is the position on the appointment of an EU high representative, which I understand is also to be made at the October summit? Have candidates been considered for that and what can the Taoiseach tell us about the issue?

When does the Taoiseach expect the rest of the Commission to be appointed? There has been some speculation in European capitals that the rest of the Commission will be appointed at the October summit. The Taoiseach previously said to me that it was not intended to do this at the meeting and the only intention was to appoint a high representative, with the rest of the Commission being appointed at a later stage. Will the Taoiseach give an update to the House on the appointment of an Irish representative and what progress is being made from a Government perspective on the identification or nomination of an Irish member?

My understanding of the September summit is that a case would be made to the G20 summit, which was to take place afterwards, on the limiting of bonuses paid to bankers internationally and the establishment of a new global financial supervisory system for banks. I do not recall any outcome from the G20 summit in respect of those requests, which I understood were agreed at the September summit by EU leaders.

The Deputy raised the position of other countries, particularly the Czech Republic. Following our decisive referendum result on the Lisbon treaty, we are keen to see it enter into force as soon as possible. I appreciate this position is shared by the majority of Members of the Oireachtas.

In that context I welcome the signature of the Polish instrument of ratification by President Kaczynski last Saturday. There has been speculation, much of it unhelpful, about what it will take to satisfy Czech President Václav Klaus so that he would sign the Czech ratification instrument. We need greater clarity on what exactly the Czech Republic is seeking in the first instance, which is a matter for the Swedish Presidency to ascertain in consultation with the Czech Republic. I would then expect consultation with other member states either before or at the next European Council scheduled for 29 and 30 October. In the meantime, it is not helpful to add to speculation.

I repeat that we wish to see the treaty enter into force as soon as possible and we are conscious of the role of the Presidency in the matter. It is important we obtain institutional certainty for the reasons outlined in other parts of the Deputy's question. I am aware of a meeting involving the President of the Commission and the Czech Prime Minister, Mr. Fischer, yesterday but there is a need for the Presidency to be allowed some time and space to deal with this matter in a way that I hope will see ratification of the treaty as quickly as possible.

On the question of the position of Presidency of the European Council, I spoke to President Barroso on the day it emerged that we would approve the referendum ourselves. He made the point that the question of the position of high representative, which would be a vice president of the Commission, must be designated by the European Council. There is a current issue in that there is institutional uncertainty as a result of the Czech position as to whether the next Commission will be established under the Nice or Lisbon treaty.

When I spoke to President Barroso, I reminded him of the importance to the Irish people of the Commission and Commissioner issue, as was evident in the context of our referendum. We discussed the matter further. Regardless of the treaty basis, each member state is currently considering who they will nominate and for my part, I am now giving careful consideration to the matter.

On the issue of the President of the Council itself, there are no officially declared candidates as I understand it. Speculation has arisen about the matter and in the immediate aftermath of our referendum I was asked a question on a programme for UK television about former Prime Minister Blair. I said that if Mr. Blair is declared to be a candidate, we will favourably consider that candidacy in view of our knowledge of him and the contribution he has made to this country during his tenure as Prime Minister. We will wait to see if other candidates are declared but I wanted to indicate the esteem in which that person is held in this country in view of the contribution he made to bilateral relations and progress on this island when he was Britain's Prime Minister.

The Deputy raised another issue relating to the G20 meeting. The G20 leaders last month agreed to launch a framework laying out the policies and ways to act together to generate strong, sustainable and balanced global growth. They also pointed to the need to shift from public to private sources of demand and to establish a pattern of growth across countries that is more sustainable and balanced, and to reduce development imbalances. G20 members pledged to avoid destabilising booms and busts in asset and credit prices and to adopt macroeconomic policies, consistent with price stability, that promote adequate and balanced global demand. They also undertook to make decisive progress on structural reforms that foster private demand and strengthen long-run growth potential. They called on their Finance Ministers and central bank governors to launch the new framework by November by initiating, with the assistance of the IMF, a co-operative process of mutual assessment of our policy frameworks and the implications thereof for the pattern and sustainability of global growth.

In response to the economic crisis, the G20 agreed to continue support for economic activity until recovery is assured. This approach has also been endorsed at EU level and is consistent with the strategy underlying the European economic recovery programme. The G20 leaders also agreed that the reform of pay and bonuses for bankers is a priority issue and that it must be dealt with in order to avoid a business-as-usual attitude creeping back into the financial sector. The main changes envisaged involve the reform of remuneration practices in order to increase financial stability. These changes include avoiding multi-year guaranteed bonuses; ensuring that compensation for senior executives and other employees having a material impact on a firm's risk exposure will be aligned with performance and risk; and making companies' compensation policies and structures transparent by means of disclosure requirements.

It is only fair to reflect on the clear decision given by the people in respect of the Lisbon treaty. In essence, the result represents the removal of a stone from the shoe and will allow us to concentrate on other matters.

The difficulty being caused by President Klaus of the Czech Republic must be a cause of serious concern. I met Mr. David Cameron, MP, in his office at Westminster last year and he clearly indicated that, assuming he wins the forthcoming British general election, it would be his intention to hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty if it has not been fully ratified. In light of the nature of the euroscepticism that exists in Britain, it is probable that there would be a "No" vote in any such referendum and that the good work done in respect of the Lisbon treaty during the past ten years would be negated.

President Klaus is seeking an opt-out in respect of the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which will become legally binding once the treaty is signed off on. This has been referred to as an artificial obstacle and I do not in any way wish to interfere or make comments about the Czech Republic and the way it and its President do their business. President Klaus did not so refrain when he visited Ireland.

Has the Taoiseach raised this matter with President of the European Commission, Mr. Barroso, particularly in view of the fact that in the recent past Ireland was the focus of the attention of the remainder of the 500 million people who live in the EU? As Head of Government, the Taoiseach must discuss this issue with his counterparts. The Lisbon treaty is critical to the Union in terms of its ability to measure up to meeting the global challenges of climate change, immigration, employment creation, food security, etc. The years dedicated to achieving agreement will be set at nought if this matter cannot be dealt with by the end of the year. I hope the Taoiseach will raise the issue with his counterparts in Europe.

When campaigning in respect of the recent referendum on the Lisbon treaty, I was struck by the awareness of people throughout the country in respect of the competency that will be given to the Union with regard to dealing with drugs and the transport and distribution thereof across member states. The saddest event I witnessed during the entire campaign occurred near the gates of Dublin Castle following the declaration of the official result. Some 100 metres up the street I saw a drug pusher selling drugs to a young girl, who was in a terrible condition, at the back of a van. I reported what I had seen to the gardaí who were on duty outside Dublin Castle.

I hope the Taoiseach will highlight this issue. The question of drugs and the destruction of an entire generation of young people is particularly relevant to Ireland. As an island nation — and despite the good work of Garda drugs units — Ireland does not have the capacity to deal as effectively as possible with the menace of drugs on an inter-country basis. I hope the Taoiseach will raise at the meeting of the Council the matter of the Union being given competency to deal with drugs, those who push them and the destruction of young people's lives. From the point of view of social justice, we could certainly major on this issue.

As stated earlier in respect of the situation that is developing in the Czech Republic, the European Union is leaving it to the Presidency to ascertain the position and obtain the clarity that is necessary. Member states will then be consulted on and with discuss how that situation will be tackled. This is preferable to different Heads of Government acting as if they were President of the Council and then everyone else getting involved.

It would be better, in the context of the various considerations and the importance of bringing about institutional certainty, to ensure that the ratification of the treaty be completed. The treaty has been ratified in accordance with constitutional traditions in each country. The main issue outstanding relates to the President of the Czech Republic signing off on the treaty. In addition, a small number of Senators from the Czech Parliament have brought a constitutional case to the country's constitutional court. It will be a matter for the court to decide how it is going to dispose of that case and it is not for me to anticipate how, if or when it will do so. At the most recent meeting of Heads of State and Government which I attended, there was evidence of a strong desire on behalf of all states to the effect that this matter be dealt with as expeditiously as possible in a way that will allow for the institutional arrangements to come into play in an orderly manner.

As already stated, this is a matter for the Swedish Presidency to deal with in the first instance. The Swedish Presidency is competent in this regard and will deal with the matter on behalf of the entire Union. We will be informed in due course with regard to how it is proposed to progress this matter. It would not be prudent or correct for me to comment further prior to the discussions that need to take place.

Deputy Kenny also referred to the area of justice and home affairs and the fact that under the Lisbon treaty there will be an enhanced and improved competence at EU level in respect of intensifying co-operation and ensuring that certain matters which simply cannot be dealt with in the context of the nation state. Matters such as international criminal activity, drug trafficking, etc., must be tackled on an ongoing basis. Interpol plays a role in this regard and there is co-operation among police forces. In recent months, significant caches of illegal drugs have been seized by the Garda and by customs officers. Such activity is an important aspect of the fight against crimes of this nature.

Everyone acknowledges that the type of activity to which Deputy Kenny refers is pernicious in nature and that it destroys the lives of the many people who suffer from addiction. The need for our judicial and policing authorities to co-operate with those of like-minded states in trying to quell the problem is an ongoing priority. It is an issue to which I can refer when I report on the outcome of the referendum campaign here.

I also wish to take this opportunity to thank all those who were involved in presenting the "No" case analysis from a progressive point of view. I also compliment the hundreds of thousands of people who stood resolutely by the "No" analysis on referendum voting day. They too are to be commended on their position and participation in a democratic debate and decision-making process. I was delighted by the role that Sinn Féin has played and how the results have shown the considerable impact my party had in informing the electorate. It was something of a David and Goliath contest, which probably explains the stone in Deputy Kenny's shoe.

On the issue of the question before Members, I note from the Taoiseach's initial response that the agenda for the summit on 29 and 30 October includes, among a number of others, economic issues. In that context, will the European Council be discussing the unemployment crisis? I refer in particular to the use by the campaigning "Yes" side of the fear and worse, the prospect, of an increase in the rates of unemployment were people were to vote "No" again, as well as of the prospect of a further decline in our economic condition and a dissuading of potential inward investors coming to these shores. The counter to such suggestions was the "Yes" campaign's underscoring of what it sought people to believe, that is, that jobs and recovery would result were people to vote "Yes".

What about the false information that appeared on the poles nationwide?

Deputy Ó Caoláin, without interruption.

With respect, I am addressing the Taoiseach. Will an accelerated jobs strategy be placed before the European Council when it next meets? What special measures for this country will be undertaken? Will the Taoiseach avail of the opportunity to raise the European Commission's approval of the Polish Government's decision to allocate €54.5 million in an aid package to Dell to assist its relocation of 1,900 jobs from Limerick to Poland? Has the Taoiseach noted what was stated by the European Commission when announcing its decision on 23 September? It stated that the Polish Government's aid package to Dell was acceptable because of its "contribution to regional development and job creation in a disadvantaged [area]". Does the Taoiseach agree it is a scandal that the European Union should be encouraging a giant multinational to take 1,900 desperately needed jobs from one of the most economically deprived regions of one member state and relocate them to another member state, albeit in an equally deprived region? Does he agree that, put simply, this defies logic and understanding? What kind of perverted jobs strategy does this represent?

Given the stone ended up in Deputy Kenny's shoes, it is no wonder that David did not slay Goliath this time. The Deputy's stonethrowing was misdirected. To take the serious point that has been raised by the Deputy, the economic situation and macroregional strategies will form part of the agenda, as indicated thus far, on 29 and 30 October. This matter has been at the heart of the discussions taking place at both the European Council and at the European Council of Finance Ministers, ECOFIN, on an ongoing basis in an effort to respond to the depth and range of the crisis with which we are dealing in both economic and financial terms. The European Union, through its membership of the G20 and its work through that process, is influencing global strategy on how to restore world economic growth as quickly as possible and will continue to do this.

It is unfair to blame the European Union for the redundancies at Dell in Limerick. Given the excellence of the workforce and management there, the maintenance of that Dell manufacturing facility for such a length of time was a major achievement. Moreover, the reorganisation of the Dell business model, which unfortunately saw the relocation of manufacturing capacity to Poland, also was part of ensuring that Dell would maintain a presence, albeit much reduced, in the mid-west, albeit and much. However, it is important that Members should acknowledge the contribution this company made for a long time in the mid-west region and that in the event of it not changing its business model, the prospect of any jobs remaining in Ireland or in other parts of the world would have been put at risk. Unfortunately, while such developments are not welcome, we also must avoid suggesting it was possible to maintain the status quo on a sustainable basis over the long term. The flexibility, responsiveness, initiative and creativity of the management and workforce at Dell, Limerick, kept that manufacturing facility there for as long as it was possible to so do, given the costs involved. The fact that so much was achieved there is an indication of how flexible they have been.

Moreover, the President of the European Commission, Mr. Barroso, stated in Limerick that the Commission had approved an application from Ireland for co-financing under the European globalisation fund to assist redundant workers at the Dell computer manufacturing plant at Raheen, as well as ancillary enterprises throughout the mid-west. Instead of portraying the European Union as being the cause of the loss, it would be more accurate to refer to the European Union in respect of the assistance it is giving to those who unfortunately have lost their jobs. This is the reality with which we are obliged to content and therefore I do not agree.

There are issues in respect of state aid. Ireland provides assistance as part of its industrial policy to attract jobs here. If an investment comes to country A, be it Ireland or anywhere else, on foot of the provision of assistance that is within state aid guidelines, such a policy is as applicable to other member states as it is to Ireland. The European Union did not provide assistance regarding investment in Poland by Dell or any other company. It was provided by Polish taxpayers within a framework of stated guidelines that apply a level playing pitch throughout the European Union. The existence of such a level playing pitch has been of great assistance to Ireland's ability to attract investments as it prevents large countries from simply using their economic muscle to provide aid to industries regardless of rules that are implemented or imposed by the European Commission. The European Commission has been the best guarantor of fair play to small countries in respect of inward investment policies. Again, the negative portrayal of the European Union in this regard is both wrong in its analysis and unfair in respect of what the Commission does generally as the guardian of the treaties and in ensuring fair play to all countries.

The Commission approved the Irish application for €22.8 million under the European globalisation fund, of which the European Union will contribute €14.8 million and the Government €8 million to retrain, upskill and offer further educational opportunities to up to 2,400 affected workers. The European Union, through its funding initiatives, is providing prospects of retraining to 2,400 workers who have lost their jobs as a result of a decision by Dell and not as a result of a decision by the European Union. The European Union, through its policies, is providing assistance to those who unfortunately have lost their jobs. This is the accurate portrayal of the European Union's involvement in this issue. To portray it otherwise is to do it a disservice because it would not be an accurate portrayal of what happened.

With respect, I find the response of the Taoiseach incredible. His efforts to paint my pointing to the factual situation, that the European Commission approved the Polish Government's €54.5 million grant aid to Dell to relocate 1,900 jobs from this jurisdiction to another within the European Union, as being grossly unfair are amazing. That is as close to balderdash as I have ever heard from the Taoiseach. It is incredible that the European Union has given approval to state enterprises regarding their promotion of investment in Poland to secure jobs there. It is fine that they were here for so many years but we do not have to cravenly thank them so much for having been here——

The time for Taoiseach's questions has expired.

I am asking a question. We do not have to cravenly thank them for having been here. Dell did very well when here and the motivation behind leaving was that it was able to move from this jurisdiction, displacing 1,900 Irish workers, in order to make more profits by transferring the work to lower paid workers in another location within the European Union. It is an absolute travesty and the Taoiseach should not try to discharge the European Union from any responsibility in this. The Commission gave approval and these are the facts. During the period of the Lisbon treaty referendum, when this became apparent in the later stages, there was nothing but deafening silence from the "Yes" side in respect of this matter. This is at the core of what we are talking about, namely protecting jobs in Ireland. I am asking the Taoiseach, in respect of his attendance at the meeting on 29 and 30 October, if the issue——

Can we have a question Deputy?

This is a question and there have been several of them. I know this is Deputy Kirk's first day as Ceann Comhairle and I wish him well.

Time overrun is the problem.

I have asked a series of questions, with respect. The Ceann Comhairle is from the same neck of the woods as I am and will understand the same way of asking questions. I want to know what strategy the Taoiseach will bring forward seeking approval from other members at the Council meeting on 29 and 30 October to address the jobs crisis in this State and the ongoing decline in the state of the economy. That is the key and kernel of the matter. Will the Taoiseach stand over future decisions such as this that will see the loss and haemorrhage of critical jobs in this jurisdiction to other locations in the European Union? Shame on him if he does.

I do not accept Deputy Ó Caoláin's opportunistic efforts to use the fact that there have been job losses in Dell in that region as a means of giving vent to his anti-EU rhetoric.

Is it the case that this did not happen? The Taoiseach should answer the question.

I am answering the question. I answered it at length in my initial response because I do not accept the simplistic portrayal of Deputy Ó Caoláin, which is easy to put across. Redundant workers welcomed the European globalisation fund initiative and said it would be of assistance to them in finding retraining opportunities and seeking other opportunities as they seek to positively move from where they are to where they want to go. That was the reaction on the ground in Limerick. Deputy Ó Caoláin suggests that the European Union facilitated something. The decision was taken by the company and the company takes that responsibility.

The investment within Poland is within state aid rules that apply in this country as they do in other countries. That is how it operates and it was not a question of the EU providing any moneys to the Polish authorities. That is their own money. While I would rather Dell had been able to stay in Limerick, the company still has a presence there and I acknowledge that the company made a strong contribution while it was here. I would rather that it could remain here but we must deal with the situation as it is. As a result of that company's decision, the European Union stepped in to assist these workers through the EU globalisation fund. To portray the EU negatively on that basis is an unfair charge against the EU.

The Commission's approval gave rise to the project proceeding. These are the same people who will not allow state intervention to protect jobs at home.

Those guidelines are the same that apply here when we get approval.

That concludes questions to the Taoiseach.

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