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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Mar 2016

Vol. 906 No. 1

Sub-Committee on Dáil Reform: Motion

I move:

"That, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders–

(a) the sub-Committee on Dáil Reform shall be chaired by the Ceann Comhairle and include not more than 14 other members of the House, of which three members would be appointed by Fine Gael, three members by Fianna Fáil, two members by Sinn Féin, one member by the Labour Party and five members representing the independent deputies and members from other political parties, and that provision be made for the substitution of members as allowed for under Standing Order 107(3)(b);

(b) the Ceann Comhairle shall announce the names of the members appointed under paragraph (a) for the information of the Dáil on the first sitting day following their appointment;

(c) Standing Order 93(2) shall not apply to the sub-Committee (in relation to using the d’Hondt system for the allocation of Chairman posts);

(d) any member or political party may make a submission on Dáil reform to the sub-Committee which shall review these submissions and report back to the Dáil within four weeks with a series of recommendations for the approval of the House; and

(e) the sub-Committee shall present an interim report on their working arrangements at a full sitting of the Dáil on 6th April, 2016 and that it will include initial consideration on appropriate rules regarding the establishment of technical groupings in the Dáil and arrangements for the management of Parliamentary Questions and the ordering of Dáil business in the interim period while the sub-Committee is sitting."

I congratulate the Ceann Comhairle on his appointment. I hope he will have easier days and harder days than he is having today.

As we have agreed motions 5a and 5b I wish to turn to motion 5c. We are proposing that we return to this House on 22 March for fewer than six hours to discuss three items. On the timing of the items, on the first issue, statements on the European Council meeting, 20 minutes will be available to every other Deputy, apart from the main spokespersons. On the second issue, statements on Council of the Agricultural Ministers meeting, 35 minutes will be available for the rest of the Deputies, apart from the main spokespersons from each of the groups . On the third issue, that of housing, which we all agree is so serious that even the Taoiseach and Deputy Martin said in their contributions that we cannot put these issues on hold, we cannot have a debate on housing and homelessness for only two hours and think that it will satisfy people who are about to lose their homes, or people who are sleeping on the streets tonight or people who are in emergency accommodation. A two-hour debate is an insult to those people. We have had many debates on housing and homelessness and I have no problem with having another debate on those issues but every Deputy who wants to make a contribution on these important issues should be allowed do so. What is being proposed in this motion is a two-hour debate, which allows only 35 minutes for every other Deputy, apart from the main spokespersons for each grouping. That is not satisfactory. That would mean that 21 Sinn Féin Party Members would be unable to speak on housing or homelessness.

I believe that the time can be extended, that we can regard it as the commencement of a debate that can continue.

I will be proposing an amendment to the motion. It was also very telling that Deputy Martin said, and he can correct me if I am wrong, he was very glad that the Chief Whip took on board his party's proposals in regard to 22 March.

I did not say that.

I stand corrected. We are returning to this House on 22 March for fewer than six hours. That is nothing but a charade. This is to allow the Government to say that it will not adjourn until 6 April and that there is no business being done. If we are serious about doing business, let us come back to this House for more than six hours.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Why are the Ministers not being brought in here? Deputy Martin said that Ministers no longer enjoy the support of the people. They are taking the people's money. They are being paid.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

They are getting ministerial salaries even though they have lost their seats. They should be sitting on the opposite side of the House and they should be held accountable by those of us who are elected.

The constitutional-----

They are getting paid. Ministers and Ministers of State are going to come into this House and make statements, why can they not come in and answer questions?

Deputies

Hear, hear.

If we are serious about reform, let us meet more than once between now and 6 April. There are many issues which need to be discussed in this Chamber. We have put down four motions and I want to formally move an amendment to motion 5c. The first part of the amendment is that the non-aligned Independents, who are not included under motion 5c, would be included under it. Second, I propose that we also discuss one of the motions we put down, which relates to the issue of water, given that there are nearly 100 Deputies in this House who are opposed to Irish Water and water charges, either through proposing their abolition or their suspension for five years or more.

There is no doubt this is one of the key issues which needs to be discussed. I formally propose a change to motion 5c that would include a substantive debate on water, not for two hours.

How many sitting days does the Deputy envisage would be required to deal with the issues he comprehensively raises?

I do not care how many sitting days it will take as I am willing to come in here every day and debate these issues because that is what I have been elected to do. I will come in on 22, 23 and 24 March but perhaps the Chief Whip might not want that. I propose that the House would sit on 22, 23 and 24 of March; that we would come in on the Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and debate all of the issues which we are elected to debate in here. Micheál and Enda can go off and have their discussions about who is going to be who and whatever else, but let us come in here and have the debates. I formally propose-----

We will take the amendment in due course.

We support the proposed amendment. I would also like to propose two other amendments to motion 5c. The first is that what is set down as a statement on housing and homelessness for a debate commencing at 6.30 p.m. and to last for two hours, would be brought forward to the start of the business of the day. It would be the first debate and would conclude after four hours rather than two hours, thereby at least doubling the time, but the debate would also include provision for motions to be proposed to the Dáil and for motions to be adopted by the Dáil.

The tsunami of homelessness and the housing crisis that was spoken about in the course of the election campaign has not gone away. In fact, it has got worse. All the empirical evidence in terms of people we meet is that the situation continues to worsen on a daily basis. Those people affected by the crisis, amounting to hundreds of thousands, cannot wait for a Government to be formed to resolve this crisis. They need action immediately. That applies to the 1,600 children living in emergency homeless accommodation. They cannot wait. It applies also to the 100,000 families on the social housing list. They cannot wait. It applies to the tens of thousands facing imminent rent hikes that they cannot afford. They cannot wait. In addition, it applies to those facing mortgages they cannot afford. They cannot wait. It also applies to the man living in a box 100 m from the Dáil. He also cannot wait. We need to have a substantive debate but we also need provision for motions to be proposed and adopted by the Dáil and, in particular, we need emergency action to resolve the housing crisis.

The second concrete proposal is that we believe there should be an additional debate and statements on Irish Water and the water charges. I hope Fianna Fáil will support the amendment of the day’s business along those lines. This is the elephant in the room from the point of view of the establishment parties. It was conspicuously absent from Deputy Martin’s listing of priorities. As a number of speakers have said, the elephant in the room on the one hand is the 70% of people who voted for parties committed to abolition or at least suspension of the water charges, which means there is clearly no longer a mandate for water charges or for Irish Water. The media have reported a stampede of people cancelling direct debits, tearing up bills and the growing boycott that will force abolition. It is approximately a year and a half since the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, declared that the Opposition was having its last protest against water charges on 1 November while we were having protests across the country. We had another protest today. The people at the ballot box had a very significant protest and I believe there will be another massive protest on the streets of Dublin on a Saturday in a few weeks' time to demand abolition.

It is only a few months since the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Alan Kelly, said that he spends 3% to 5% of his time thinking about the water charges. The evidence would suggest that perhaps he and the Labour Party should have spent longer thinking about them, the impact they are having on people and on its support. We need an immediate debate on water charges and Irish Water. We need it on the next sitting day and we need a recognition that Irish Water and the water charges have to go, but also a recognition by the establishment parties in here that people are not going to wait. They are not going to place their trust in negotiations between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to see the abolition of water charges. People are going to act decisively and force abolition and they are going to do so, correctly, by increasing the rate of boycott, by tearing up the bills and by cancelling direct debits, as is currently happening. That is why we need a debate on Irish Water and the water charges when we return.

Before I proceed to the next speaker – the list of speakers is growing – could I ask the House if it is in order to accept motion 5b, on the issue of Dáil reform and the establishment of a committee? We are all agreed on that, are we not, and everybody seems to be in favour of urgent action on it. Can we take it that motion is agreed? Agreed. I thank Members for their help on that matter.

Question put and agreed to.
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