Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022

Vol. 1029 No. 3

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Jack Chambers)

I move:

Tuesday's business shall be:

- Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2022 (without debate)

- Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Planning and Development (Exempted Development) (No. 4) Regulations 2022 (without debate)

- Statements on Science Week (not to exceed 2 hrs 25 mins)

Private Members' Business shall be the Motion re Retained Firefighters, selected by Sinn Féin.

Wednesday’s business shall be:

- Motion re Referral to Committee in relation to Section 9 of Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2022, Part (without debate)

- Motion re Supplementary Estimates for Public Service [Votes 27, 28, 30 and 35] (back from Committee) (to be moved together and decided without debate by one question)

- Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 5, 12, 13, 14, 17, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 31, 33, 34, 37, 38, 42 and 45] (without debate)

- Statements post European Council meeting of 20th -21st of October, pursuant to Standing Order 124 (not to exceed 2 hrs 5 mins, including 20 mins Q&A)

- Motion re Extension of Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 (to conclude within 55 mins)

- Credit Guarantee (Amendment) Bill 2022 (Committee and remaining Stages) (to be taken no earlier than 5.50 p.m. and to conclude within 90 minutes)

- Tailte Éireann Bill 2022 (Report and Final Stages) (to conclude within 60 mins)

Private Members' Business shall be the Motion re Energy Regulations, selected by the Rural Independent Group.

Thursday’s business shall be:

- Statements on Supporting the Development of Dublin City through Safety Initiatives and the Appropriate Provision of Emergency and Other Services (not to exceed 3 hrs 30 mins)

Thursday evening business shall be Second Stage of the Impaired Farm Credit Bill 2022.

Proposed Arrangements for this week's business:

In relation to Tuesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that the time allotted to Government business shall be extended for the purpose of allowing the Statements for Science Week to conclude, and private members' business shall be taken on the conclusion of the statements, with consequential effect on the commencement time for Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, topical issues and the adjournment of the Dáil;

2. the Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2022 shall be taken without debate;

3. the Motion re Referral to Joint Committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Planning and Development (Exempted Development) (No. 4) Regulations 2022 shall be taken without debate; and

4. the Statements on Science Week shall not exceed 145 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 135 minutes, following which a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, and members may share time.

In relation to Wednesday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the following extent:

(i) the SOS shall be taken on the conclusion of the Statements post European Council meeting of 20th -21st of October, pursuant to Standing Order 124, which shall be taken on the conclusion of Parliamentary Questions to the Taoiseach pursuant to Standing Order 46(1), with consequential effect on the time for the commencement of Government business; and

(ii) the weekly division time may be taken earlier than 8.45 p.m., and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of proceedings on the Tailte Éireann Bill 2022;

2. the Motion re Referral to Committee in relation to Section 9 of Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2022, Part 2 shall be taken without debate;

3. the motions for the Supplementary Estimates for Public Service [Votes 27, 28, 30 and 35] shall be moved together and decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair;

4. the Motion re Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 5, 12, 13, 14, 17, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 31, 33, 34, 37, 38, 42 and 45] shall be taken without debate;

5. the Statements post European Council meeting of 20th -21st of October, pursuant to Standing Order 124 shall not exceed 125 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements shall not exceed 100 minutes, with speaking arrangements in accordance those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, followed by 20 minutes of questions and answers; (ii) on the conclusion of the questions and answers, a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and (iii) members may share time;

6. the Motion re Extension of Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 55 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the order of speaking and allocation of time shall be as follows: - opening speech by a Minister or Minister of State – 10 minutes; - speech by a representative of Sinn Féin – 10 minutes; - speeches by representatives of the Labour Party, Social Democrats, People-Before-Profit-Solidarity, the Regional Group, the Rural Independent Group and the Independent Group – 5 minutes per party or group; and - a speech in response by a Minister or Minister of State – 5 minutes; and (ii) members may share time;

7. the Order of referral of the Credit Guarantee (Amendment) Bill 2022 to the Select Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment is hereby discharged and the proceedings on Committee and remaining Stages of the Bill shall be taken no earlier than 5.50 p.m., and shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; and

8. the proceedings on Report and Final Stage of the Tailte Éireann Bill 2022 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Housing, Local Government, Heritage.

In relation to Thursday’s business, it is proposed that:

1. the ordinary routine of business as contained in Schedule 3 to Standing Orders shall be modified to the extent that topical issues may be taken earlier than 7.24 p.m. and shall in any event be taken on the conclusion of the Statements on Supporting the Development of Dublin City through Safety Initiatives and the Appropriate Provision of Emergency and Other Services, with consequential effect on the commencement time for the Impaired Farm Credit Bill 2022 and for the adjournment of the Dáil; and

2. the Statements on Supporting the Development of Dublin City through Safety Initiatives and the Appropriate Provision of Emergency and Other Services shall not exceed 210 minutes, with arrangements in accordance with those agreed by Order of the Dáil of 30th July, 2020, for 200 minutes, following which a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed 10 minutes, and members may share time.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is the Order of Business agreed?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is not agreed.

Deputy Paul Murphy

It is not agreed.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We should have statements this week on the serious issue of allegations of child sexual abuse that have been made arising out of the RTÉ documentary and disclosures since then into the Spiritans, Blackrock College and other schools. It is a huge issue. My colleague, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, and many others have called for an independent inquiry and survivors have also been looking for that. It would be useful for us to hear the Government’s response to these very serious allegations this week and to have the opportunity to debate this issue. I know we have a busy schedule generally but we have two-and-a-half hours of statements on Science Week this afternoon. We could schedule time this week or next week for a debate on these allegations.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am very unhappy with the scheduling and the way the Government handled, managed and scheduled the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 last week. The Minister for Justice gave us to believe that we would have the opportunity to put down amendments on Report Stage but we were debating Second Stage here last Thursday and the date for amendments had passed before we commenced Second Stage. This is shocking, it does not comply with Standing Orders and it is completely wrong. What is the Government's indecent haste in trying to rush this hate speech legislation through, breaching the procedures set down by this House, namely Standing Orders? Dáil procedure does not allow for that; there is a correct way of doing it. The Minister said she was not rushing it but she is rushing it in an inordinate hurry.

Deputy Paul Murphy

We have written to the Business Committee seeking a debate on the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, this week. It is vital that we have such a debate. It is clear that the Taoiseach has not read the judgment on CETA but the whole House needs to familiarise itself with it because it is clear that the legislation is not sufficient. It states:

...while such legislation is necessary, this in itself would not be sufficient. The Constitution does not permit the Government to ratify CETA nor the Oireachtas to enact the appropriate legislation giving effect to that decision for so long as the defences...to enforcement of a CETA Tribunal award under the ICSID and the New York Conventions respectively remain as circumscribed as they currently are. The gravamen of the constitutional objection which I have upheld is that, upon ratification of CETA as is currently proposed, the High Court would be virtually powerless to refuse the enforcement of a CETA Tribunal award.

It is also incorrect to say the agreement is about the expansion of trade and so on; this is about an investor court system. It is also incorrect that being in the EU gives us protection. We should look at the Canadian mining company suing Romania and another Canadian company is suing Croatia so we need to debate it this week.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

I echo the call from Deputy Bacik on a debate on the abuse in Blackrock College and the Spiritans. The revelations over the course of the past week have been absolutely horrifying. It is clear that there will need to be a response from the State that will need to be thoughtful, considered and in line with the needs and wishes of the survivors and those who have bravely come forward. That would benefit from being discussed on the floor of the Dáil and I support that request.

The Taoiseach

I would concur with what the Deputies have said about the sickening and shocking nature of abuse at Blackrock College and the scale and nature of that abuse. We have time and next week might be a better opportunity. We had some preliminary discussions at Government level on this and we have to take some advice as well in respect of any current cases that are ongoing. I know the Garda has issued contact numbers and so on for people to contact it. I have no issue with having discussions with Members of the House. It is one thing to call for an inquiry but it is completely different to try to develop one. It must be a bespoke model that meets the needs of victims and survivors and that gets resolution. We should learn from experience as best we can and I am open to engaging with Members on that.

We are all in general for the Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022. We will vote on Second Stage tomorrow night so Committee Stage can start this week.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

That is not my point. My point is that the date was gone-----

The Taoiseach

That is not a matter for me; I cannot deal with that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy was raising an issue with amendments.

The Taoiseach

That is not a matter for me either; it is a matter for the House.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

It is a matter of Standing Orders.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There were other issues the Taoiseach was going to address before he was interrupted.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Ó Laoghaire raised the same issue as Deputy Bacik.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is also the issue of CETA.

The Taoiseach

Deputy Paul Murphy is of the view that no one has read the judgment but he wants a debate today on it. That is not feasible either so I suggest that we pencil a debate in at some stage. CETA has been provisionally in operation since 2017. We will not rush any response to this; we want to give due consideration to the judgment and the conclusion from the Supreme Court that amendment to the Arbitration Act 2010 would deal with the issue. It is not something that has to be rushed either this week or next week but I have no objection to a debate on CETA at some stage. We have already had debates on CETA in the House by the way.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Those are the responses. Are the proposed arrangements for the week's business agreed to?

Deputy Mattie McGrath

They are not agreed.

Question put: “That the proposed arrangements for this week’s business be agreed to.”

The Dáil divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 46; Staon, 0.

Tá

• Berry, Cathal.
• Brophy, Colm.
• Browne, James.
• Bruton, Richard.
• Burke, Colm.
• Butler, Mary.
• Byrne, Thomas.
• Cahill, Jackie.
• Calleary, Dara.
• Cannon, Ciarán.
• Carey, Joe.
• Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
• Chambers, Jack.
• Collins, Niall.
• Costello, Patrick.
• Creed, Michael.
• Crowe, Cathal.
• Devlin, Cormac.
• Donnelly, Stephen.
• Duffy, Francis Noel.
• Durkan, Bernard J.
• English, Damien.
• Flaherty, Joe.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Fleming, Sean.
• Foley, Norma.
• Grealish, Noel.
• Griffin, Brendan.
• Harris, Simon.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Heydon, Martin.
• Higgins, Emer.
• Kehoe, Paul.
• Lawless, James.
• Leddin, Brian.
• Madigan, Josepha.
• Martin, Catherine.
• Martin, Micheál.
• Matthews, Steven.
• McAuliffe, Paul.
• McConalogue, Charlie.
• McEntee, Helen.
• McGrath, Michael.
• Moynihan, Aindrias.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Naughton, Hildegarde.
• Noonan, Malcolm.
• O'Brien, Darragh.
• O'Brien, Joe.
• O'Callaghan, Jim.
• O'Connor, James.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donnell, Kieran.
• O'Gorman, Roderic.
• O'Sullivan, Christopher.
• O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
• Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
• Ó Cuív, Éamon.
• Rabbitte, Anne.
• Richmond, Neale.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smyth, Niamh.
• Smyth, Ossian.
• Stanton, David.
• Varadkar, Leo.

Níl

• Bacik, Ivana.
• Boyd Barrett, Richard.
• Buckley, Pat.
• Cairns, Holly.
• Carthy, Matt.
• Clarke, Sorca.
• Collins, Joan.
• Cronin, Réada.
• Crowe, Seán.
• Cullinane, David.
• Donnelly, Paul.
• Ellis, Dessie.
• Farrell, Mairéad.
• Funchion, Kathleen.
• Gannon, Gary.
• Harkin, Marian.
• Healy-Rae, Danny.
• Healy-Rae, Michael.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kenny, Gino.
• Kenny, Martin.
• Kerrane, Claire.
• McDonald, Mary Lou.
• McGrath, Mattie.
• McNamara, Michael.
• Mitchell, Denise.
• Munster, Imelda.
• Murphy, Paul.
• Mythen, Johnny.
• Nash, Ged.
• O'Callaghan, Cian.
• O'Reilly, Louise.
• O'Rourke, Darren.
• Ó Broin, Eoin.
• Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
• Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
• Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
• Quinlivan, Maurice.
• Ryan, Patricia.
• Shanahan, Matt.
• Sherlock, Sean.
• Smith, Bríd.
• Smith, Duncan.
• Stanley, Brian.
• Tully, Pauline.
• Whitmore, Jennifer.

Staon

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Jack Chambers and Brendan Griffin; Níl, Deputies Mattie McGrath and Danny Healy-Rae.

Question declared carried.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are moving on. I note there are just under 22 minutes for this slot and 17 speakers have indicated a wish to contribute. I am not sure if we can achieve that.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Alliance for Insurance Reform has stated that insurance companies are taking their policyholders and the Government for a ride when it comes to the insurance reform plan. Business and voluntary organisations have seen no reduction in their insurance premiums while a report published today shows that motor insurance has fallen by only 2% in the past year. The value of awards has reduced significantly but that is being pocketed by the insurance companies. All the while, as the Taoiseach knows, the industry has seen record bumper profits. We must ensure the insurance industry passes on the savings from reduced awards to customers. That is what Deputy Doherty's Bill, which is currently before the Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach, would achieve. Is it not now time for the Government to end its opposition to that necessary legislation?

The Taoiseach

The Government deserves to be commended and the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, in particular should be commended on the work he has done in respect of insurance reform. I take the point that a significant range of reforms has now been enacted and while the cost of motor insurance has come down, other insurance premiums have not. The Government will be examining the issue to ensure we get premiums down.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I commend the immense courage of all of those who have come forward in recent weeks to disclose abuse by the Spiritans and other religious orders following the powerful "Blackrock Boys" documentary on RTÉ radio. I thank the Taoiseach for agreeing at my request to schedule a debate on these allegations and the horrific and widespread abuse that appears to have been perpetrated. In advance of that debate, we must acknowledge the need for a public inquiry arising out of the disclosures of abuse. We owe it to survivors, many of whom have contacted me and my colleague, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, in recent days. An inquiry is necessary not only to uncover the scale of the abuse but also to examine the cover-up. It must be a survivor-led inquiry and may have to extend beyond one order because it seems that organisations other than the Spiritans were also involved. We can, if necessary, approach the inquiry process in a modular fashion. I ask the Taoiseach to commit to meeting the survivors and hearing from them what is now needed.

The Taoiseach

A Member of the other House has been in touch with me about meeting survivors and I have no difficulty in doing that. I have said we are open to a debate next week. We need to discuss the matter but we do not in any way wish to impact any prosecutions that may take place. We also need to discuss the most effective way to inquire into the matter. It is shocking and sickening, especially when one considers the scale of it. As the Deputy said, there may have been a premeditated attempt to cover it up.

Deputy Gary Gannon

This week is Transgender Awareness Week, ending with Transgender Day of Remembrance on Sunday. According to the latest survey conducted by BeLonG To, the LGBT youth organisation, which surveyed more than 1,200 LGBTQI+ students from across the country, 76% of students reported feeling unsafe at school. As one can imagine, feeling unsafe in a school environment is bound to have a detrimental effect on the quality of education a student receives. The survey also states that three in ten LGBTQI+ students missed at least one day of school in the past month because they felt unsafe or uncomfortable. Very worryingly, one in ten LGBTQI+ students are unsure whether they will complete the leaving certificate.

That survey was released today. What can the Government do to enhance and protect those students, the LGBT community in schools, who are feeling unsafe?

The Taoiseach

We can do a number of things, first through curricular reform but more importantly through an ethos of tolerance within schools creating a safe environment for the entire LGBTI+ community, particularly the transgender community. There are issues. We also need to deal with the bullying issue, which is related. More broadly a whole-of-school approach is key to enabling people to feel safe in schools.

Deputy Bríd Smith

It has been 17 months since the House passed the Second Stage of the Industrial Relations (Provisions in Respect of Pension Entitlements of Retired Workers) Bill 2021. It has been nine months since the consultation process was started by the Tánaiste's office but not a single proposal has come from either the Minister of State, Deputy English, or the Tánaiste regarding the progress of this Bill. Can the Taoiseach get guarantees from that office that attempts will be made to move this Bill to Committee? Will he give the more than 500,000 retired workers some guarantee that the Bill will be aired and given a chance to pass through the Oireachtas? I know we are all getting older. They are getting older. They are retired workers and not retired voters and how they will respond to what the Taoiseach's office does or does not do matters.

The Taoiseach

I will talk to the Tánaiste and the Minister of State, Deputy English, to see how they intend to address the issue.

Deputy Denis Naughten

Some 247 months ago Margaret Best and I attended a meeting with the Taoiseach and his officials at the then Department of Health and Children regarding the introduction of a no-fault vaccine compensation scheme. Over the past two decades, while Governments have been committed to the introduction of such a scheme in the interests of both public health and the individuals concerned, we have always remained one report away from action. We now have claims related to adverse reactions from the Covid vaccination programme. When can we expect the commitment promised for so long to be implemented?

The Taoiseach

Work has been done on this. There is ongoing consideration of it within the Department of Health. I will come back to the Deputy on it.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

The temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, was announced with fanfare some months ago after the budget as being the saviour of many rural and urban businesses. It has now transpired that many businesses in rural areas if they do not use gas - we do not have gas in many towns never mind in rural areas - and if they use oil for instance as their main way of creating industry, pressing the laundry industry and industries like that, will be denied access to this TBESS. That is totally discriminatory against rural Ireland again because such people do not have an opportunity to have piped gas in the towns. Many towns do not have it, never mind the countryside. Something needs to be done about this anomaly if it is a fact and I am told that it is. It is discriminatory against rural businesses and it must be changed.

The Taoiseach

The good news is that I believe the Minister will be in a position to advance the TBESS through amendments to the Finance Bill. Good progress is also being made on the commission. We hope this can be operational before the end of the year. I will again talk to the Minister about the issue the Deputy has raised regarding the use of oil, for example. There is no intended discrimination.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I wonder with the Green Party.

The Taoiseach

Many of these schemes depend on the methodology of payments and how best one can organise the scheme.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

A bill for oil is the same as one for gas.

The Taoiseach

We will come back to the Deputy.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I want to raise the inadequacy of the service provided by the pain clinic at Sligo University Hospital. Over the past two years, I have submitted a number of questions about this service and the most recent response stated that the HSE had received funding to establish the clinic on a permanent basis. Previously it was established on a pilot basis. However, 11 months after the pilot programme finished, patients tell me that the pain services are inadequate with waiting times of 12 months and in some cases up to 24 months, and inadequate facilities to carry out the procedures. It is called a pain clinic for a reason. For many people it is the final step in a long journey of chronic and unremitting pain. I have written to the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, and I am asking the Taoiseach to raise this matter with him.

The Taoiseach

It is a very good point. Pain clinics are essential for many people. I will talk to the Minister.

Deputy Willie O'Dea

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for enabling the House to commemorate the life and work of the late Vicky Phelan. It is much appreciated.

The budget provided for a once-off €500 payment for certain categories of social welfare recipients. All those social welfare recipients can do training courses, short courses lasting three or four months, under the aegis of SOLAS to enable their reintegration into the workforce while at the same time continuing to receive their social welfare. Based on a reply dated 25 October it has now transpired that if the €500 payment date occurs while they are on the course, they are not entitled to that €500. This is even though they are not materially better off than they were beforehand because all they are receiving is their basic social welfare payment. Would the Taoiseach agree with me that this is either an oversight or a glaring anomaly that needs to be rectified?

The Taoiseach

I kind of would, yes. I will pursue it. I do not think it is our intention. The intention of these schemes is to help people on low incomes or social welfare payments. They contribute to alleviating the pressure they are feeling at the moment because of the extraordinary energy price increases. I will pursue it with the Minister. I think we can resolve this. I thank the Deputy for raising it.

Deputy Brian Leddin

I commend the Taoiseach on the genuine and effective leadership he showed on the international stage last week. He told the international community that we do not have a minute to lose in our efforts to combat climate change. There is a missing piece in this country in how we communicate the importance of climate change to our communities across the country. Climate action at ground level means bringing in different policies that affect people's lives. This may relate to land, transport, bus lanes and cycle lanes. These are very difficult and challenging problems at local level. There is a link between that action and addressing the worst impacts of climate change. We are missing a piece in how we communicate the importance of climate action at the local level.

The Taoiseach

I agree with the Deputy. One of the great takeaways from COP27 is the immediacy of climate change now. It is not something on the distant horizon and we have seen devastating weather events that can occur because of climate change. The presentations from Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Somalia and the small island states of the Pacific all reveal the immediate consequences of this. Personal behaviour change is key. Collectively we need to focus on offshore wind energy, for example, the national retrofitting programme and the electric vehicle, EV, programme. We can make great progress. I was reading a book last evening and we sometimes forget the progress we have made on renewable energy with increases in onshore wind energy. I think it was 1% of electricity generation at the beginning of this century and it is close to 43% now. It is the same with recycling of plastic, for example, with the plastic bag levy. It shows that we can do it.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

Mar is eol don Taoiseach, bhí scéal ann i dtaobh míle leanbh i gConamara a chaill amach ar bhéilí scoile de bharr gur tharraing an comhlacht a bhí ag soláthar na mbéilí amach. The Taoiseach may be aware that in Connemara recently, 1,000 children lost their school meals because the provider ceased to provide them, citing financial pressures. This problem is spreading. It has become clear that there are problems with the school meal programme in the context of the cost-of-living crisis. The Taoiseach may have seen that we both received an email from St. Maries of the Isle, a school with children attending from homeless shelters such as Edel House. Some of these children have now lost their school meal because the providers have pulled out. It is clear that financial pressures from the cost-of-living crisis are undermining the delivery of the school meals programme. Obviously, this is no one's intention but it is a very serious problem. We cannot allow meals to be swiped away from the neediest. I urge the Taoiseach to ensure this is reviewed at the earliest juncture.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are over time. I call on the Taoiseach to respond.

The Taoiseach

Labhróidh mé leis an Aire Oideachais agus leis an Aire Coimirce Sóisialaí chun an cheist seo a scrúdú agus réiteach a fháil. Tá sé ríthábhachtach go mbeadh leanaí na tíre in ann an tseirbhís seo a fháil. Tá sé práinneach. I will discuss this with the Minister for Social Protection and the Minister for Education in respect of the issues that arise when companies are in difficulty to see if we can ensure the continuation of the provision of meals for children who need them.

Deputy Claire Kerrane

Rural communities that have welcomed Ukrainian refugees in recent weeks are under pressure, particularly when it comes to healthcare and education. This is of course mainly due to the lack of and loss of services in rural areas, which existed long before the war. I see it in my own hometown of Ballaghaderreen, which welcomed Syrian refugees as far back as 2017. We were one of the first towns to welcome them here. Greater resources are needed in all our rural communities. Yesterday on the radio, the Taoiseach said there will be additional supports and that that would be important for communities. Can he tell us what those supports will look like? Will they include additional GPs and additional supports for local schools?

The Taoiseach

First, I accept that many communities have responded magnificently to the terrible wartime situation we are in by facilitating Ukrainians. More generally, there are specific supports that we will implement through health and through education and more generally in terms of communities that have taken a higher number of Ukrainians. In particular, this happened early on when there was availability of accommodation in some locations, so there were relatively high numbers there when compared with other locations. We will see in terms of general community infrastructure how the Government can assist in providing additional resources there through funding.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

I want to raise some serious road safety concerns that I have in relation to the R489. That is the main road linking Portumna and Birr and it is at the very end of my constituency and my county. Because of its geographic location, the road does not get the resources that it deserves. For 1 km from the Ferry Inn in Portumna and Lorrha the road gets extremely narrow and trucks have to stop to pass. There is a blind bend there which is extremely dangerous. I would like for Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, and Tipperary County Council to work together to put the necessary resources in place to alleviate this serious safety concern. Residents in the area are willing to give their property to facilitate this progress.

The Taoiseach

I accept Deputy Cahill’s deep concerns about road safety on the R489 between Portumna and Birr. I will communicate directly with the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and indeed with the CEO of Tipperary County Council asking them to come together to seek resolutions to this.

Deputy Colm Burke

The national development plan 2021-2030, clearly sets out the need for major infrastructural development and part of that infrastructural development is the building of three new elective hospitals in Cork, Galway and Dublin. The HSE South-South West submitted its plans in January. Robert Watt confirmed to the Joint Committee on Health on 28 September that we would have a decision by mid-October. I understand there was a meeting between the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform last Thursday. When will we get the decision on the new elective hospital for Cork? We have had a huge increase in population. It has increased over 170,000 in the last 20 years. We need new medical facilities. When will we have that announcement about identifying the site, getting on with the design and with the building of that facility?

The Taoiseach

As the Deputy knows, I am very keen to get this under way. This was originally announced six or seven years ago. The Minister for Health will be bringing a memo to Government shortly in respect of this. Progress has been made and when we have news I will come back to the Deputy on that.

Deputy Gino Kenny

We all know that there are enormous challenges in our emergency departments currently. Recently, the Irish Examiner reported that over 27,000 people were in emergency departments and they left without being treated. That is extremely worrying and it is a terrible reflection on the Government’s health policy. Is this a reflection that the health policy of the Government has failed?

The Taoiseach

The health policy is much broader than just emergency departments, although access is extremely important. We need to create alternative centres for treatment. Particularly for me, the enhanced community care programme is a far more effective way to go. There has been huge progress on the enhanced community care programme in regions across the country whereby senior citizens and people in general can access a whole range of services, from respiratory centres, to cardiac care, diagnostics, rehabilitation for senior citizens and mental health programmes for young people all on the one campus with multidisciplinary teams in place. That is the future. Emergency departments in tertiary hospitals and major trauma hospitals are for people who are seriously ill or who have had serious accidents and require attendance at a tertiary hospital. We need to develop alternative centres, minor injury clinics, enhanced community care, prevention etc. to deal with many other issues.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

When a person is being Garda vetted, I ask that the vetting be valid across the board for at least three to five years. It is ridiculous that some people have to be Garda vetted a number of times in any one year. There is so much time lost for someone who has secured and lined up a job and must then wait to be Garda vetted. It must be unduly cumbersome for the gardaí to operate this procedure repetitively. For example, take school bus drivers who when transferring from one operator to another have to be Garda vetted again. The same is the case for hospitals, health services and childcare services. There could be people involved with the GAA club, the youth club, the swimming club, the coffee morning etc. and they all have to be Garda vetted individually for these different clubs etc. The same person must be vetted a number of times in any single year and it does not make sense. Could the Government streamline this?

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy. We will now hear 30-second questions.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

As the housing crisis worsens, severe pressure on emergency accommodation is becoming insurmountable. Homeless families are being sent further and further away to bed and breakfasts outside of their hometowns and catchment areas. A huge chunk of their already very low income is being swallowed up by expensive transport costs in order to make sure their children keep attending their local school with their local friends. What is the Government’s policy to provide financial assistance towards the cost of transport for the purpose of homeless children being able to attend their own schools from which they were dramatically shunted?

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

Budget 2023 proposed €65 million for section 39 funding and yet I am still waiting to see any action on that funding. I met with representatives from Holy Angels in Carlow this week. As the Taoiseach knows, the funding is to support community-based voluntary organisations in the provision of disability, nursing home and hospital services across the country. I was told the funding would be there by the middle of the month. We are now in the middle of the month but I spoke to the HSE last week. I rang them and they told me that they had received no funding and they were not aware of when it was coming. As the Taoiseach knows, section 39 organisations depend on this really good funding that was announced in the budget. I ask that it be given out as soon as possible.

The Taoiseach

I have sympathy with Deputy Danny Healy Rae’s point about the vetting but it is in the legislation and we would have to review that legislation to see if it can be streamlined with a view to making the whole vetting process more practical.

In relation to Deputy Mythen’s point, I covered housing earlier in a different question, but we simply need to build more houses, more rapidly to deal with the broader issue of housing, which manifests in the manner that he has identified.

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Sorry, I asked about the homeless children and their transport costs.

The Taoiseach

Which, sorry?

Deputy Johnny Mythen

Homeless children and their transport costs to school.

The Taoiseach

Yes, what-----

Deputy Johnny Mythen

The Taoiseach spoke about building houses but I asked about-----

The Taoiseach

The Deputy raised housing as a crisis. What is the specific-----

Deputy Johnny Mythen

What is the Government's policy on providing financial assistance towards the cost of transport for the purpose of homeless children being able to attend their own schools from which they were dramatically shunted?

An Ceann Comhairle

The question relates to people who may have moved out of their areas to somewhere else returning to their local school.

The Taoiseach

Sorry. At the moment, the existing school transport scheme has to cater for-----

Deputy Johnny Mythen

It does not cover it, no.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has raised an anomaly. I will discuss the point raised with the Minister for Education.

In terms of Deputy Murnane O'Connor's question in respect of section 39 funding, I will talk to the Minister for Health.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

I thank the Taoiseach.