Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 Jun 2023

Vol. 1040 No. 1

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Job Losses

Deputy Johnny Guirke

I wish to discuss the imminent risk of job losses at Rehab Enterprises in Navan, County Meath. There is an experienced team of machinists who have been making personal protective equipment, PPE, for more than 20 years and supporting front-line workers, never more so than during the pandemic, when they all worked overtime to try to keep up with demand. Now, we hear that 11 of the 14 employees are in danger of losing their jobs. Deputy O'Rourke and I met the staff in Navan about ten days ago. These people go to work every day with a smile on their faces and love doing their work. To be told that their jobs may go will have an awful effect on them. Some of them have been working there for more than 30 years and others more than 20 years, with little hope of finding employment locally if these jobs go. I spoke with the HR director of Rehab Enterprises, who told me that in order to protect the other 110 jobs across the State, the plant in Navan would be hard to save. This will put these 11 people on the live register, where they will probably remain, as well as the effect it will have on them and their mental health.

Staff received a letter from Rehab Enterprises on 23 May, stating that they were advised that their roles had been placed at risk and that this meant their jobs were placed at risk of potential redundancy. It was also stated that it will not happen at that time and that Rehab Enterprises was going to see if there were any other options to prevent this from happening. There is a small window of opportunity to save these jobs and see the smile coming back on the faces of these workers. That is why I ask the Minister of State to engage with Rehab Enterprises to see if anything can be done to protect these jobs. In cases like this, it should not always be about the money but about doing what is right for people with disabilities.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

As Deputy Guirke said, there is real concern at this site towards the end of the 30-day period of consultation. Staff are working through their union but they have concerns and legitimate questions, such as why them - it is a busy facility and they are very productive. They say they have been stymied because they do not have a sales representative and pointed to areas in which they see opportunities for cost savings and expansion. A number of these workers have disabilities. There must be a major focus on holding onto these jobs; at worst, roles in the same building or in Navan could and should be explored. The risk of losing these jobs must be resisted as much as possible. There is concern more broadly in relation to Rehab Enterprises and its history in that regard in delivering redundancy packages at Limerick. I ask the Minister of State what supports he can provide in this case.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Sean Fleming)

I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coveney. I thank Deputies O'Rourke and Guirke for raising this matter. I listened very carefully to what they said. I confirm that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of Social Protection have not received a collective redundancy notification in relation to the employer mentioned, Rehab Enterprises. It is therefore not possible for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to comment on the specific matter because no notification of collective redundancy has been received. However, I accept that the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is aware of the potential redundancies. It is a huge shock for the employees affected. As the Deputy said, a letter was issued recently stating the people's jobs were potentially at risk, which is clearly an early-warning signal. The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and my colleague, the Minster for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, will be glad to liaise directly on this matter as quickly as possible now that the Deputies have highlighted the issue. Both the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of Social Protection will support the company and employees in any way they can. I have been informed that a dedicated team from the Department of Social Protection will be made available to work with the employees to ensure access to income support and to support them to secure alternative employment.

I recognise the particular nature of the people who work in Rehab Enterprises. There is a facility in Portlaoise, which I visited, so I am very conscious of the similar situation and that it is not as easy for the category of people in those areas to obtain employment. There will have to be further discussions, I think, with the employer directly, Rehab Enterprises, because of the particular nature of the work carried out. From my knowledge, employment has been quite strong in the County Meath area and across the country and Enterprise Ireland has been working closely with the county.

There is scope for Enterprise Ireland to look at this with an organisation like Rehab in terms of social enterprise. I think there is feasibility there. The Rehab Group is an independent, voluntary organisation. It is not a State organisation, though many people might think it is. It is heavily reliant on the State for funding for the work it does. It has been employing people with disabilities for more than 70 years. It is an internationally recognised company and charity that has enabled more than 10,000 people with disabilities to live a life of their own choosing over that period. Rehab is a strong, well-established organisation with a skill set in this area.

While the Department has not received official notification of collective redundancy to date, we will liaise directly with the Minister, Deputy O’Gorman. I thank the Deputies for raising the matter.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. I raise the devastating news for 650 staff at Tara Mines, their families, the thousands of indirect jobs in Navan and County Meath and the wider community. On my behalf and on that of Deputy Guirke, I extend solidarity to those workers and their families.

We hear this is temporary and related to the commodities market, the price of zinc, energy costs, general inflation and operational challenges and that the mine is to enter into a period of care and maintenance. We heard and read statements from the general manager, Gunnar Nystrom, and the Minister, Deputy Coveney. We heard from SIPTU official Adrian Kane. We know there is a commitment for continued engagement, for Enterprise Ireland to work with apprenticeships and for social welfare to work with workers affected, but this has come as a bolt out of the blue. There is huge uncertainty and real hurt about the way this was handled.

Deputy Guirke and I have written on numerous occasions to the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan, when there were concerns in respect of energy. We wrote to Mr. Nystrom as far back as the end of April. The question for workers is what “temporary” means. What more can Government do? Is there anything that can be done? It is clear energy costs are a huge factor.

Deputy Sean Fleming

First, on Rehab, I fully recognise the work carried out by the workforce. The Deputy said they had a major role during Covid and worked extensively in that time. They have a good sewing, trimming and cutting process, producing garments of the highest quality for clients in industry, pharmaceuticals, food and transportation. They have a very good reputation. It is important that Rehab talks to its parent Department, from which it receives most of its funding, as a matter of urgency.

The Deputy has mentioned the very serious news for workers in Tara Mines. It would be unreal if I did not respond. I do not have a script on it. I send our support from the Government. I listened to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment on the radio. He has spoken to the chief executive. In the interview on RTÉ Radio 1 this morning, as I recollect, he talked about a period of months. Over the coming weeks, while the work is winding down, the issue is to keep the mine in a safe condition so that when conditions improve, it can open quickly and there is not another six-month delay getting it back in order. I appeal to the company to keep the mine ready for opening, not just when there is a price increase. That would take another six months if it is not kept up to the required standard.

Everybody in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Social Protection will be involved with the workforce immediately. No details have been worked out, I understand, in the context of how long the period will be or what compensation will be paid. I understand there was a briefing on the matter for employees last night. I do not know the detail of what was discussed. It is a shock for the entire workforce, but it is a bolt out of the blue for the country as well to have a big employer of that scale taking a hit like this. Our thoughts are with the workforce and their families at this time.

Defective Building Materials

Deputy Paul Murphy

It is almost a year since the Government received the report of the working group to examine defects in housing. Laid out in the report is a shocking tale of builders cutting corners and using loopholes inserted by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in terms of self-certification with devastating consequences for apartment and duplex owners. The report suggests that a majority of apartments and duplexes built between 1991 and 2013 - between 50% and 80% - are affected by defects. That is an incredible figure. It means that between 62,500 and 100,000 apartments and duplexes are affected by a range of defects, mostly fire defects. The average cost to fix each apartment or duplex will be €25,000. I have no doubt that figure will increase rather than decrease over time.

Thanks to the campaigning of residents across the country, who came together in the Not Our Fault campaign, and the lobbying of the Construction Defects Alliance, at the start of this year the Government promised a 100% redress scheme that will include retrospection, which is extremely welcome. However, the devil is in the detail. The Government claims to have a 100% redress scheme in place for the people affected by mica. However, those people do not agree that is happening and are completely unsatisfied.

I have a number of questions. One is about the timeframe involved. The whole thing seems to be happening extremely slowly. There was the leak of a report of an advisory group set up to develop a code of practice in The Irish Times on Monday. That suggests, and it is reflected in the paper by the Construction Defects Alliance, that the timeframe the Government is looking at is heads of Bill developed by the end of the year and, hopefully, a scheme in place by autumn 2024. This seems to be extraordinarily slow. We have known this issue has existed for years and have had the details since July of last year. If the timeframe of autumn 2024 slips, then we are probably going beyond the timeframe of the next general election.

Second is a question about retrospection. There are hints in The Irish Times article of resistance in the Department to retrospection - the idea that, where people have paid out to fix their apartments or duplexes, that needs to be paid by the State, which it absolutely does. The State should then pursue the builders responsible.

The third and crucial issue is emergency funding. In January, the Minister spoke about the possibility of emergency funding. They were looking into it and so on. There is a reference now to interim funding in the report from The Irish Times. This needs to happen before the end of the year. Look at the fire that happened in Blanchardstown a couple of weeks ago. Fires can and will happen in multi-unit developments. If they have fire defects, as the majority built between 1991 and 2013 do, those fires can spread extremely quickly. It would be grossly negligent of the Government not to have emergency funding in place for the necessary measures, bearing in mind the majority of people living in these places do not even know they are affected.

Fourth, the Minister at the time spoke about speaking to the insurance companies to deal with apartment owners management companies finding it difficult to get insurance. It is not clear if there is any progress on that.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, Deputy Darragh O’Brien. I thank the Deputy for raising this and providing us with an opportunity to update the House on this important matter. I assure the House of this Government’s commitment to supporting homeowners and residents of many apartments and duplexes that have defects.

I fully acknowledge the stress caused when defects arise in the homes and buildings people live in. Since receiving Government approval in January 2023 of the draft legislation to establish supports for the remediation of defects, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has been working to progress the various programmes of work required to replace the remediation scheme on a statutory footing. The Deputy will appreciate it does take time to get a scheme like this completed and established on a statutory footing through a process in the Houses.

A key aspect of this work is developing a code of practice in the context of the Fire Services Acts to provide guidance to relevant professionals, including guidance on interim safety measures. The development of this code of practice was a key recommendation of the working group that the Minister established to examine defects in housing. The group working includes industry professionals and representatives of the local authority fire services, the Housing Agency and the Department. The work of the group is nearing completion, and the Department expects to be in a position to publish the code of practice for public consultation in the weeks to come.

The code of practice will be a key feature on which the operations of the statutory scheme will be based. It will support the development of a reasonable and practical approach to resolving fire safety defects and to ensuring a consistent approach nationwide to remediation. While the code of practice will apply to the remediation of fire safety defects, it could be built upon in regard to the remediation of structural and water ingress defects in due course. The Deputy can see the priority is in terms of fire safety. The issue of the remediation of structural and water ingress defects can be looked at subsequent to dealing with the fire safety issue. The Deputy highlighted the recent fire in Blanchardstown. Everybody will accept that we must deal with this aspect as an immediate and early part of the process.

The scheme will be administered by the Housing Agency nationwide. Interaction and interdependency with the local authority fire services and others will need to be considered, with the remediation of fire safety defects carried out to the satisfaction of the local authority fire services. An advice and information service portal within the Housing Agency is in the process of being established. In addition, work is under way to draft the required legislation, which will include the scope, eligibility and conditions of the remediation scheme. While the Department is working on the development of the scheme as a matter of priority, sufficient time is required to draft the legislation in order to ensure that the scheme is fit for purpose, provides value for taxpayers' money and contains appropriate oversight and governance measures.

Deputy Paul Murphy

I appreciate that the Minister of State is not the line Minister, but he did say he appreciated the opportunity to update the House on this important matter. He did not really provide that much of an update, however, apart from the fact, which we know from The Irish Times, that the code of practice, which has been referred to previously in the Dáil, is being developed. What is worrying is that mention was made of a code of practice "including guidance on interim safety measures". That would be welcome because we do need guidance on interim safety measures, but to make these happen, we need money.

Funding is needed, because the bottom line is that people cannot afford to pay €20,000 or whatever to make their homes safe. None of this is the fault of those people. They are not responsible for the situation and they do not have the money to pay for the remediation. If we identify that there is a serious fire risk in apartment buildings, in terms of the threat of a fire spreading rapidly, then we must urgently provide funding to ensure the work is done to make these apartments safe on an interim basis while the full scheme is rolled out. That is essential. It would be grossly negligent of the Government not to take this action in light of the information it has in front of it.

I did not get an answer, but perhaps the Minister will provide one in respect of the issues of retrospection and insurance. On the timeframe, I again stress the urgency regarding all of this. I encourage the Minister or any Member of the House to come out and meet the campaigners, who are people living in the conditions I have outlined. In light of the fire in Blanchardstown, they are thinking about these safety issues more. They are outside the Dáil every Wednesday from 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. Next week, the Not Our Fault campaign is planning a 24-hour protest. If people are free at any stage in the day, they can go out and talk to these people and get a sense of the urgency, especially in respect of emergency or interim funding, or whatever we want to call it. Money must be involved to ensure this work happens before the end of the year.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I again thank the Deputy for highlighting this issue. It is important to again assure the House of the Government's commitment to deal with the issue of defects in apartment buildings and to assist homeowners who find themselves in a difficult financial position. I fully appreciate that the affected homeowners want the remediation scheme to be established immediately. I assure the House that the Government shares this ambition. I did mention, however, that legislation must be enacted. Hopefully, this will get a good passage through the Houses once it is brought forward.

In the meantime, it is important that the owners' management companies do not pause the undertaking of important lifesaving work. For this reason, the Government has agreed that remediation works relating to fire safety defects entered into or commenced from 18 January 2023 will form part of the remediation scheme, subject to the proper terms and conditions. The details of this process are being worked out as a priority in parallel with the code of practice. This deals with fire safety defects where work was entered into or commenced from 18 January 2023 and is an element of retrospection.

As the works continue, the Minister looks forward to continuing engagement with key stakeholders and encourages all interested parties to participate in the public consultation on the code of practice when it is launched in the coming weeks. Primarily, in the first instance, it will deal with the fire safety issue. The code of practice will provide for a system of certification whereby fire safety remediation works, when completed in accordance with the provisions of the code and signed by the competent building professional and competent builder, will demonstrate that the defects discovered have been satisfactorily remediated. This will benefit all stakeholders. As I mentioned, local authority fire safety certification will also be required.

I will speak directly to the Minister about this issue. The Deputy mentioned the timetable. I have provided some dates. An element of retrospection is dealt with in that regard. I am sure it is not to everybody's satisfaction, but there is an element of retrospection regarding work commenced earlier this year. I am sure that the issue of funding, especially for fire safety work, will be dealt with once the document is published. I will bring the matters relating to management companies and insurance to the attention of the Minister later today.

Climate Change Policy

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this matter to be taken today and I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming, for being here. It is ironic that he is here because he now has responsibility for international aid and small islands and developing states. I am sure he is aware of the threat to small islands and developing states, like the Marshall Islands and elsewhere, from the rise in sea levels. Those states are very concerned that they may be completely wiped out because of rising sea levels.

Does the Government accept that sea levels are rising? Has the Government got any projections as to how much they will rise? I have been reading some material on this issue recently and one report indicates that sea levels could rise by as much as 300 mm, which is 1 ft, by 2050. We have a situation where sea levels are rising and they are doing so at an accelerating rate. Waters from the ocean are expanding as they absorb massive amounts of heat trapped by greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere. Glaciers and ice sheets are adding hundreds of gigatons of meltwater into the oceans annually. The land surface around coasts is also creeping up and down and affecting the relative sea level rise. People are feeling these impacts and will continue to do so.

What is our long-term plan in this context? Quite often, we work in cycles of five years as we move from one election to the next. The rise in sea levels is inevitable. The Dutch and others are taking this issue very seriously, as are some Americans. I read some recent reports from the Marine Institute here, which indicate that cities like Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick and others around our coasts will be severely affected. Many of our roads, transport, electricity and other services will also be impacted. We need to start thinking about this impact seriously.

I know we have set up a national adaptation steering committee. Perhaps the Minister of State might tell us what work it has been doing. There is also the national coastal change management strategy steering group. Has it issued a report? If so, what actions are the Government planning to take with respect to this issue? I am talking about long-term action in this regard and not something in the short term. I am not talking about flood defences. This is far more serious because it is the sea. I refer to the reports I have read. I also have a book here by John Englander, entitled Moving To Higher Ground: Rising Sea Level and the Path Forward, which deals with this issue in a big way.

If, as is being said, the sea is going to rise, it is not going to go back.

The rise is inevitable and will be permanent. Surely, as a State, we should now be planning for this. What are we going to do? Can we put up sea walls? Can we get people to move? The other issue that will be impacted in a big way, an issue the Minister of State will be familiar with from his previous role in the Department of Finance, is that of house insurance and property insurance. If your property is close to the coast and there is a threat of a rising sea flooding that property, no insurance company will take you on. What are those people going to do?

The Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I and many of us will be gone from here, perhaps to our eternal reward, by the time this happens but we should not be waiting. We should be planning for it now. I am not talking about floods or small works by the Office of Public Works, OPW. This is pretty big. It will cost a lot of money if we are going to have an impact. It means moving people from low-lying areas on the coast or putting up defences to keep the sea out. I read one report that talked about blockading the Baltic Sea to save all the cities on the edge of that sea if it rises up. We are also going to see other impacts. Bangladesh and Florida could disappear and much of New York and Boston will be in trouble. We will see movements of people like we have never seen before because of this.

Has the Government been talking about, debating and thinking about this issue in a serious way? I am not just talking about short-term solutions but the long term. I am talking about the next ten, 15 or 20 years. As I said, some reports are talking about sea levels rising by a foot by 2050. That is not that far away. If that happens, many of us and our children will really be impacted. I am interested to hear what the Minister of State has to say on this matter and in what adaptation measures are planned.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank Deputy Stanton for raising this matter, which is very clear to everyone who looks at it objectively. I am taking this debate on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. The challenge posed by rising sea levels is clear. The Deputy asked me to confirm whether the Government believes it. Yes, we do. It is clear for anybody to see. The practical implementation of measures to mitigate these risks, particularly for coastal communities, is of critical importance. I welcome the opportunity to bring some clarity on this particular matter.

Ireland’s coastal areas face many challenges associated with climate change not only due to projected sea level rises, but also from increased storm frequency and intensity. These challenges have complex and multifaceted effects and there is a need for a framework to inform key decisions as to how the State should best manage its changing coast having regard to such future risks and taking account of the complex interrelationships that result from the interaction between the marine environment and the terrestrial environment.

With respect to responding to coastal change, local authorities are generally responsible for the management of problems associated with coastal change and erosion in their respective administrative areas. Other coastal risks, such as risks to transport, agriculture and business, are addressed locally and through sectoral responses. I acknowledge that coastal erosion is a natural and ongoing process which takes place around the national coastline, the results of which are complex and multifaceted. Coastal change may well threaten infrastructure such as roads and may undermine and cause damage to properties. However, it should also be recognised that coastal erosion also has beneficial effects to the local environment, such as providing natural nourishment and supply of sediment to adjacent beaches.

Following a request by An Taoiseach, the Office of Public Works, OPW, carried out research on the impacts of sea level rises and coastal erosion arising from climate change on coastal communities. As a result of this, the Government established an interdepartmental group on national coastal change management strategy to scope out an approach for the development of a national co-ordinated and integrated strategy to manage the projected impact of coastal change to our coastal communities. The interdepartmental group is jointly chaired by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Office of Public Works and is supported by a technical working group. The scoping report on managing coastal change has now been finalised and it will be submitted to Government for consideration very shortly.

There are a number of ongoing programmes to inform how mitigation of the effects of coastal erosion can be tackled. For example, I understand that the OPW commenced a coastal monitoring survey programme in 2020. Five initial target sites at Portrane, Rosslare, Ballyheigue, Lahinch, and Rosses Point were selected based on their significant exposure to coastal erosion and change or on the recommendations of associated detailed coastal studies already undertaken. Additional sites are being added to this list on an annual basis. The information derived from the programme will inform and support the planning, design and construction of new critical coastal infrastructure and the ongoing assessment of the performance of such infrastructure and will also assist with the planning and preparation of any necessary future adaptation of same due to climate change.

It is acknowledged that there is a need for a longer-term co-ordinated approach to tackle the issue of coastal change to provide a framework for key decisions to be taken on how Ireland can best manage its coast, being aware of the future risks and the associated planning requirements.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Minister of State for his response. I will point out that I was told almost two years ago that the scoping report on the management of coastal change was almost finalised and would be submitted to Government shortly. It still has not been submitted to Government, which is a little bit alarming but we will wait and see. Perhaps the Minister of State will tell us when it will actually be submitted and what will happen as a result.

There is another curious issue in the Minister of State's response. He said that "it should also be recognised that coastal erosion also has beneficial effects [...] such as providing natural nourishment and supply of sediment to adjacent beaches." I am not talking about that at all. I am talking about the sea level rising, that rise not going away and the sea level staying up. There is a danger of mixing up erosion and rising sea levels. Much of the Minister of State's response was about coastal erosion, which is welcome information and the works being carried out to mitigate it are important, but permanent sea level rises are a totally different matter and far more serious. In the final paragraph of the Minister of State's response, it is acknowledged that there is a need for a longer-term co-ordinated approach to tackle the issue of coastal change. Again, I am talking about rising sea levels and not just coastal change, that is, sea levels rising because of the megatonnes of ice in glaciers that are melting. Most international studies and countries are saying that is the case. We do not have a plan to deal with rising sea levels, rather than erosion, that I am aware of. I emphasise that it is of great importance that we start taking this very seriously. I have already outlined the risks to our services, our roads, our transport infrastructure and our railways. Much of our electricity generation capacity is on the coast. Households will have to adapt in a big way or move. They will not be able to get insurance. It goes on and on. Most other countries across the world are taking this very seriously. I do not believe we are.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Deputy for his further remarks. The managing coastal change report has now been finalised. I am not sure what was said on the previous occasion. It will be submitted to the Government very shortly. The report is finalised and is not still being worked on. I mention that particularly.

It is clear that tackling coastal change management in response to climate change will be complex and multifaceted. A range of research, policy and consequent management responses will be required. Even with comprehensive monitoring systems and a policy of appropriate intervention, it is inevitable that the State will be faced with complex challenges that may mean that many people will have to make difficult choices in the future. Measures and mechanisms will have to be put in place to allow for a considered response that recognises at its heart that it is people and communities that have to be made safe and sustainable. A key objective is to put in place a roadmap for responding to these challenges in a structured and planned way to provide the basis for a long-term strategy for integrated coastal change management.

I take the Deputy's point that some of the response dealt more with coastal erosion issues than sea level rises. I will speak to the Minister directly on this matter later on today and I will highlight that the emphasis of this debate is on sea level rises rather than the coastal erosion that is happening in different spots around the country. The Deputy especially highlighted that sea levels are predicted to rise by 300 mm, or a foot in old language, by 2050. It is a much bigger challenge. The issue of coastal erosion arises in particular areas due to particular circumstances but this is a much broader global issue. I will speak to the Minister directly on the Deputy's behalf today.

EU Regulations

Deputy Jackie Cahill

I appreciate that the Minister is here to answer my questions on this issue despite his busy schedule. This issue has caused great anxiety among rural people.

The way the Commission has introduced this leaves a lot to be desired. Thankfully, we now see a significant pushback to these proposals, not only in this country but across Europe. Whether it will get through the environmental committee in the European Parliament now is open to question. The questions about and scrutinising of these proposals are long overdue.

Farmers and rural people have worked extremely hard and spent much money to make land productive. There is a view that they would be forced to rewet this land and let it go back to a wild state. As I said, much clarity needs to be brought to what the proposals are. The proposals need to be modified. The targets initially proposed by the Commission about the amount of land it wants to be restored and rewetted also, in my opinion, have to be readjusted. The whole knowledge of rewetting and rewilding needs to be investigated too. Yesterday, the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, which I chair, visited a timber facility in the west of Ireland. Some 180 people are directly employed there and 250 more are indirectly employed. Raw timber comes in there and an end product comes out which is suitable for construction.

Regarding the land that is now being proposed to be rewetted or rewilded to try to reduce our emissions, in my opinion, we have not done a full balance sheet on the benefits that timber products have in construction in our battle to reduce emissions. Outside the timber facility's office yesterday, there was a small parcel of timber ready to go into construction. There was a tonne of carbon stored in that timber. When that timber goes into construction, replacing concrete products, it will store that carbon forevermore. While obviously some lands are not suitable for forestry, I think the full balance sheet has not been worked out regarding when this land grows timber, the benefits of that timber in replacing other products, and its substitution for concrete products, which have many emissions attached to their production. We need to go back and look at that seriously.

We now have experts speaking about rewetting bogs, saying that for the next 50 to 80 years, it will increase the emissions rather than reduce them. They say methane will increase the most. The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, will be well aware of methane, the retention of our derogation and so on, and the battle we have on the emissions side in the dairy sector. The scientific expertise is now there to say that for the next 80 years, if we rewet our bogs, it will increase methane emissions. Much scientific and environmental research needs to be done to know exactly what the benefit of this would be.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)

I thank Deputy Cahill for raising this issue this morning. It is really important and every opportunity we get to communicate on it and discuss it is welcome. I absolutely accept that farmers have concerns about it and also that it is easy to create concern about it as well. The opportunity to engage, discuss and communicate where we are at and where we want to go is welcome. I, as Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and this Government understand the concerns farmers have and we are working to make sure they are accommodated to have a balanced, proportionate outcome here. Importantly, we need to have a good nature restoration law that provides the platform for ensuring we have strong nature and biodiversity recovery in the future, which is more important to farmers than everyone else.

I have worked closely with my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which is the lead Department for this legislation. I have also taken a leading role at European level with the Agriculture and Fisheries Council where, along with my EU colleagues, we have made significant progress in ensuring that the law is workable for our farmers and our country overall. This was initially published more than a year ago. While the public debate on it has really only been apparent in the last month or less, I have been working on this for more than a year, since the publications were first published by the European Commission.

Since the publication of the European Commission’s proposal last year, my Department has been working closely with our colleagues in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and across Government to develop our national position on the proposals. The proposed text has evolved significantly within the Council and we can now look forward to the vote on the Council proposals at the Environment Council next week. Article 9 in the proposal focuses on agricultural ecosystems, introducing targets for increasing trends of farmland bird populations, grassland butterflies, stocks of organic carbon in mineral soils and high diversity landscape features. Ireland is already delivering significant action towards these objectives through our CAP strategic plan and I was glad to be able to approve 46,000 farmers to join our flagship agri-climate rural environmental scheme, ACRES, recently.

Article 9(4) proposes binding targets for restoration of drained organic soils under agricultural management, a proportion of which must be achieved through rewetting. It is this target that has received the most significant attention. The Council's proposals set the following minimum targets for restoration of drained peatland soils under agricultural management: 30% by 2030, of which a quarter must be rewetted; 40% by 2040, of which at least half must be rewetted; and 50% by 2050, of which at least half must be rewetted. The flexibilities, which I fought hard for, within the Council's proposal allow for delivery of this ambition on land under a variety of current uses, not just agricultural area. Under the Council's proposals, the extent of rewetting required will also be at the member state's discretion. There are significant flexibilities, which combined with other provisions, mean that under the Council’s agreed position, which we fought hard to achieve at European level, we would have the capacity up to 2050 to be able to meet our rewetting requirement from State-owned land if necessary.

We will, of course, provide options to farmers to contribute to that and to pay farmers who wish to participate. I have no doubt that given the experience I have had, and as we have seen over many years and decades with the farming community in Ireland, that where there are good schemes, good payments and sensible approaches taken, farmers will step up to the market, because farmers want to see a balanced, proportionate outcome here and want to make their contribution too. Food production is at the centre of it but this has to be done in harmony with nature and has to see nature restored.

Deputy Jackie Cahill

First, I acknowledge the work the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, has been doing to bring commonsense to these proposals coming from Brussels. From various meetings I have had with the Minister, I know he is working hard to make sure that public lands will play a huge part in achieving the targets that will be set down for rewetting and rewilding. That is to be welcomed. On designation, the last time we had a significant amount of land designated in this country, it came in with significant fanfare. For the first number of years, there was a reasonable compensation scheme for farmers in those designated areas, but that compensation scheme quickly evaporated. The capital value of land that has been designated has been decimated. I would say it has reduced by about 80%. At the moment, designated land is probably worth 20% of the value of undesignated land nearby.

When farmers hear about rewetting, a shiver goes up their spine. They are extremely worried, if someone in their locality decides to rewet, about the impact it will have on their land that they want to keep in arable production. Bord na Móna in Offaly has been pivotal in bringing attention to this. There is a significant number of bogs in that area.

It would be a prime target for rewetting. They are looking for assurances that if large parts of those bogs are rewetted, that it will not have an impact on adjoining land or land in the locality. I would urge the Minister to find a resolution to that and to provide assurances to those farmers that if land is rewetted in their locality, it will not impact on their ability to produce.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

I thank Deputy Cahill again for bringing this up today, and bringing these concerns to the table. This is something I have been working on for more than a year since the policy proposals were first published by the Commission. It is something I have been working on with Government colleagues, and with fellow European agriculture ministers at Council of Ministers level. The changes we got and that have now been agreed with other agriculture ministers through the Council of Ministers deal with many of the issues and challenges I saw at the outset, and bring balance and proportionality to this law.

Much of the discussion in the last few weeks has been around what is happening at European Parliament level, because the Parliament is a co-decision-maker on this. I hope, and expect from the soundings I am taking, that we are seeing the Parliament now move closer to where the Council of Ministers has been at. If we see that, we will get a balanced and proportionate outcome.

It is important we get a nature restoration law to provide the policy and platform across the European Union to deal with the really concerning situation which concerns farmers and everyone in society, where we have seen nature diminished in the last generation or two. We cannot afford to see that continue. That is really important for food production and farm incomes, but also for the existence of us all and the health of the world around us. It is important we do this, but do it in a balanced and proportionate way. That is what I have been working to achieve. It is really important that we communicate that and provide the reassurance to farmers that we, as a Government, understand their concerns. We have worked to ensure that those concerns are reflected, and we will work with them to back them in the work that they have shown themselves to be willing to do. Witness ACRES, for example, and the very significant uptake on that. Farmers have shown they are willing to do this with the appropriate backing, and we will be giving them that backing. Importantly, we will be working to communicate what we are doing as well, and the fact we all want to work together to achieve something which is really important for all of us.