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JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND FOOD debate -
Wednesday, 5 Jul 2006

Brazilian Livestock Production: Presentation.

Mr. John Bryan

I thank the Chairman and members for inviting us to attend this meeting today. We appreciate the support we received from this committee during previous meetings on separate issues such as the WTO, beef premiums and so on.

I wish today to focus on our visit to Brazil from 4 to 11 May. Members will be aware that an issue of concern to the IFA for the past number of years has been imports entering the EU from Third World countries and the standards applied in these countries as compared with the EU. In that regard, we decided to investigate the matter ourselves. The delegation which visited Brazil included myself, Mr. Kevin Kinsella and Mr. Justin McCarthy of the Irish Farmers’ Journal.

We made brief visits to Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay. However, we focused mainly on Brazil because it is the country about which we have the greatest concerns. We examined the standards there and how they relate to those in the EU. It is accepted that the EU, in respect of food produced by its member states, sets the highest standards in the world. There is a concern that equivalent standards do not apply elsewhere. We concentrated on the two provinces of Mato Grosso do Sul and Parana. There has been a recent outbreak of foot and mouth disease in those provinces, even though they were previously cleared for exports to the EU. Brazil is currently lobbying very hard to have them cleared again.

The picture on screen is one of the more shocking. It shows the standards that apply there. Every animal in the EU must be tagged from birth until death and there must be 100% traceability. Animals that die must be collected and accounted for through government-approved abattoirs. In Brazil, however, animals that die are left in the fields for birds to eat. We were told at the farm we visited that four cattle were being killed every week to supply the local restaurant trade.

We went to examine farming standards. We are not vets, but we looked at the standards as they apply at farm level. We concentrated on a number of issues. The first of these was foot and mouth disease control because there have been a number of outbreaks in Brazil recently. The second issue was traceability, such as tagging, central databases, registration and so on. We also considered the environmental standards that apply, concentrating on matters such as the rain forests and social issues. The church bodies and others have expressed serious concerns about the piratically slave-level standards that apply to farm labourers.

The findings from our trip were shocking. Most of the committee will have seen the articles in the Irish Farmers’ Journal relating to it. We found that the foot and mouth disease controls were completely inadequate. At all stages, they are relying completely on vaccination. We met Professor Augusto Pinto, who is one of the senior advisers to the Brazilian Government. He stated that its vaccination programme is not up to standard because many of the farmers are not vaccinating completely and are purchasing certificates. He is also concerned about the fact that there are 3 million wild buffalo in Brazil. The latter, which are not vaccinated, interact with the fixed herds in the country and foot and mouth disease is endemic. He was very concerned about border controls. We met officials from DG SANCO and they are willing to accept that the border controls with Paraguay are not adequate. Foot and mouth disease exists in Paraguay and it is not approved for export into the EU.

Professor Pinto highlighted the length it took from the initial outbreak until the time it was diagnosed. This was evident in Parana last year, where the outbreak occurred in October or November but was not confirmed until February. That was a long period and it provided ample time for the disease to spread. Professor Pinto was very clear that Brazil does not have proper controls and does not have the necessary systems and procedures in place. He was exceptionally concerned about the country's lack of proper laboratories and technicians. The Food and Veterinary Office report highlights the fact that money has not been spent to put proper procedures in place. Training is required to allow people to deal with matters such as the control of foot and mouth disease.

The lack of traceability was the most noticeable aspect of our trip. We visited 11 cattle farms. We went in at random when we saw farms with big herds of cattle. It was obvious that, with the exception of one farm, there was no traceability. On the farm to which I refer, the tags were repeated and there was no link back to the farm of origin. Two of the other ten farms had a limited form of traceability in the past but the farmers there had abandoned it. Instead of standards improving, which is what we were led to believe, it is clear that they are declining. There is no belief at farm level that traceability is of any benefit or that there is an ability to put it in place. We informed the officials from DG SANCO that we did not see any level of training and education. A farmer in Ireland has a level of school education and he will undertake training provided by Teagasc and so on. There is much training involved in reaching a stage where traceability is right, which includes maintaining herd registers and a central database. That is the minimum requirement for a robust traceability system. However, it does not exist in Brazil. It is a long way from being put in place. Farmers there do not understand the need for it.

The EU has a regionalisation policy in place for the control of foot and mouth disease in Mato Grosso do Sul and Parana. However, if there is no traceability, how can it be controlled? There is no way to control regionalisation. In the US, the stock approved for export to the EU is worth 30% to 50% more than the stock that is not approved. With very low weaning rates and unrestricted movement of cattle, it is obvious that it is impossible to control regionalisation. This means that regionalisation just does not work.

We also examined environmental standards. When European farmers have a quality control system linked to European supermarkets, the supermarket owners insist on information regarding traceability, animal welfare, animal health and so on. None of these standards exist in Brazil, so we wanted to consider the environmental standards. We visited a farm that was part of the rain forest only five years ago. There is a policy of slash and burn in place. The commercial timber is pulled out and the remainder is burned. Everybody is concerned about global warming but in Brazil there is a policy of expanding beef production at the expense of the rain forest, despite the long-term environmental damage that will do the rest of the world. Every inch of Mato Grosso do Sul was rain forest 30 years ago. In the picture on screen, members can see the burned stones and the grass regenerating. In recent years, they have been burning an area the size of Munster. Mato Grosso do Sul is much bigger than France. The proposals under the WTO are for a drastic increase in beef production in Brazil. If that is to take place, they will be obliged to burn an area of rain forest the size of Europe. The consequences of that are frightening.

We also examined the social issues. The international church bodies refer to landless people. In Mato Grosso do Sul, we met people living in plastic huts at the side of the road. There are 24,000 people living in these conditions. They were displaced as beef production expanded. They would have been called small tenant farmers 100 years ago in Ireland. They are sharecroppers who used to own approximately eight hectares and they shared 20% of the production with the Brazilian Government or the landowner. Much of the land in Brazil still belongs to the Government. The hut in the picture is probably much smaller than the middle ring of this room, yet we counted 20 children in it. That hut was on one of the ranches we visited.

The employment standards are atrocious. The workers are on slave wages. We travelled 27 km along a dust track and all of those children we saw will grow up in dire poverty. It is not true to say that getting access to the European markets improves living standards to the poor in Brazil. The people living on the side of the road and those living in that hut are certainly not benefiting from it. Many of the ranches are owned by big business people in America and in the cities. In Ireland, farming is understood in terms of a family farm of 40 hectares to 60 hectares. In the places we visited, a businessman might own 2,000 hectares to 6,000 hectares.

The conclusions drawn from our trip are clear. First, foot and mouth disease controls are inadequate and are far from being so. The main reason is that any control programme must have systems in place. However, the systems in Brazil are simply not up to scratch. This is partly due to a lack of education and partly to a lack of investment in laboratories and trained staff.

As for traceability, it is far from being a reality because any level of traceability must start at farm level. However, there is no willingness or degree of training or education at farm level. Moreover, the next link in securing traceability requires a central database in the relevant department. This is not in place and is not close to being so.

The story with regard to environmental controls is frightening. In 2005, Brazil exported 350,000 tonnes of beef to the EU and Argentina exported a further 150,000 tonnes. That is a total of 500,000 tonnes. Commissioner Peter Mandelson's initial proposal is to allow these exports to increase to 1.3 million tonnes. However, Argentina cannot produce the extra beef because its population is rising and its beef production is stable or falling slightly. Hence, the only place from which this extra production can come is Brazil and the only way in which the requisite additional land can be found is by burning the rain forest, which is frightening.

The argument being made at the WTO talks in respect of social issues or similar matters is far from the truth. As we have seen, the ending of the beet industry in Ireland has done nothing for poor farmers in Africa. Similarly, an increase in Brazilian beef production will not do anything for poor people in Brazil.

We decided to raise this matter at every level and appreciate the opportunity afforded to us by the joint committee. We have spoken to the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, in this regard and she has forwarded our report to Commissioner Fischer Boel. We have spoken twice to the Directorate General for Health and Consumer Protection, DG SANCO, about this matter because it is responsible for accepting the imports. Yesterday, Mr. Kinsella and I met top officials from DG SANCO, including the assistant chef de cabinet, in Brussels. He was quite willing to state on the record that Brazil is a subject of serious concern and is at the top of Commissioner Kyprianou’s agenda. The latter is so concerned that he has sent many more missions there. The missions sent in 2003, 2004 and 2005 all highlighted serious shortcomings, none of which have been rectified. The directorate general’s most recent report was issued last week and highlighted the fact that its visits of late November and December 2005 and early this year revealed that nothing was getting better and, if anything, matters were becoming more serious.

Yesterday, the assistant chef de cabinet was willing to state on the record that the directorate general is so concerned that it has sent its inspector back to Brazil to seek immediate answers. He stated that unless satisfactory answers are provided and Brazil can offer some proof that it is in a position to make huge changes in this regard, the directorate general will be obliged to extend the ban. He further stated that the directorate general is so concerned about the lack of border controls and sanitary provisions between Paraguay and the states of Mato Grosso do Sul and Parana, that it certainly will not lift the temporary ban on those states. As members are aware, in view of these serious shortcomings we have asked for a total ban on Brazilian imports.

Before Mr. Bryan completes his presentation, did the IFA party inspect the conditions and regulations in slaughterhouses?

Mr. Bryan

Most trips to Brazil are organised in Europe and agreement as to their destinations is made with the Brazilian authorities. However, we did the opposite by going without indicating our destination to anyone. We did so because we wanted to make independent inspections and, consequently, we visited farms at random. We tried to gain access to two slaughterhouses. At the first, we took a chance by arriving at the gate and introducing ourselves as Irish farmers. However, we were told that we could not enter. Although we secured an appointment to visit the second two days in advance, the visit was cancelled on the appointed morning. Hence, we failed to gain access.

I thank Mr. Bryan for his presentation and compliment him on taking on this task and trip. His report to the committee is extremely worrying and I expect that other members will emphasise this strongly. This matter is a subject about which the joint committee must hold further meetings, perhaps in the near future. It should invite different people to attend. One man who certainly should visit that country is Commissioner Mandelson. However, I am sure that if he did so, he would only be shown certain places. I again thank Mr. Bryan.

I welcome the IFA delegation and compliment it on its investigation in South America, particularly Brazil. This report is extremely comprehensive and worrying. From an EU perspective, double standards are being applied. On one hand, the European Union daily erects additional barriers to farmers in the form of additional rules and regulations. On the other, it appears to be turning a blind eye towards events in Brazil. This constitutes a damning indictment of the current system.

I wish to turn to the IFA's recent meetings with the Commission and DG SANCO. All the annual reports conducted by the EU Food and Veterinary Office have consistently highlighted significant flaws in the Brazilian beef industry's systems. Why have the reports not been acted upon? While the EU Food and Veterinary Office continually highlights similar problems, the practices appear to remain in place. In particular, the most recent report, which was published last week, is worse than its predecessors. However, the response has been to again seek the views of the Brazilian authorities in this regard.

The European Commission should make a definitive decision on the issue of beef from Brazil. In particular, the most recent report highlighted a number of difficulties regarding the importation of residues from animal medicines into the EU. Strict rules and regulations obtain within the EU and such products would not get onto supermarket shelves. As products are independently tested here, such residues would not be tolerated. However, although the food and veterinary report highlighted this issue, the Commission appears to be merely asking the Brazilian authorities for their views.

As for regionalisation, the situation is unacceptable. Animals that are moved from County Louth to County Meath will show up immediately on the cattle movement monitoring system, CMMS. Brazil does not have such a system. The point highlighted by the delegation regarding the movement of stock both within Brazil and from Paraguay gives rise to serious concern regarding the risk of the importation of foot and mouth disease into Ireland. In particular, as vaccinated and unvaccinated animals are mixed together, it is not possible to screen for foot and mouth disease in Brazil at present. In itself, this should halt the importation of Brazilian beef into Ireland.

After much lobbying on the part of public representatives and farming organisations, country of origin labelling has been introduced successfully regarding beef within the catering trade. This is a positive step because it is about time that consumers were made aware of exactly what they purchase and consume. However, I was disappointed to read this morning that the Minister for Agriculture and Food launched this initiative yesterday outside a restaurant that did not have the country of origin food labelling, which was supposed to be mandatory since last Monday. This shows the fear of the lack of enforcement that exists. On one hand, we must ensure that proper rules and regulations are in place in respect of the importation of food, in order that it meets the same standards that obtain in Ireland. On the other, however, we must also ensure that our own rules are enforced properly and that Irish consumers know exactly what they purchase and consume.

As there are only 15 minutes remaining, I ask members to pose questions rather than make comments. We will have a longer discussion on another day in respect of this important topic. There is another group to come before us. We arranged this meeting at very short notice to facilitate the IFA, as well as members, and I ask speakers to be brief.

I welcome the delegation and thank its members not only for today's presentation but also for the great work they did in travelling to Brazil to obtain this information at first hand. It is work which really counts. All the reports in the world cannot add up to hands-on experience.

The most recent report published by the FVO was the most damning of all. The report's most significant conclusion is that most of the deficiencies discovered in 2003 have yet to be rectified, while many of the promised actions were not implemented. I understand and appreciate that the IFA cannot indicate the action that can be taken to make progress in this context but can the witnesses explain the effect of the FVO's activities? Is it simply the case that it carries out a series of checks and tests, writes a report setting out a number of recommendations and presents it to the EU, only for no action to be taken? What can the IFA do to push the EU to take substantial action on obvious abuses in food safety? The first of the two issues of concern in this context is human health and consumer safety. Clearly, we import products that fail to meet the same standards as those which obtain in the EU. What confidence can we have in a system in which testing procedures are not in place and in which laboratories operate in a shambolic way?

The second issue of concern is the trading disadvantage. According to other reports I have recently read on Brazil, these problems do not relate solely to beef. There are also problems with fruit, in which context a very damning report was published just last week on residues in apples and, in particular, papaya. There is an obvious dearth of enforcement and establishment of the standards we demand from our producers and wish our consumers to enjoy. The focus of the discussion should be broadened from beef to a number of other products. I asked the Minister last week if we could identify from what regions the beef is coming and was informed that it is not possible to do so. I would like to hear the comments of the IFA on that matter.

I thank the delegation for its presentation and commend the IFA on its fact-finding mission, which, for those of us who have not seen matters at first hand, has been educational. The report will have a significant impact and set in train a process that will be very embarrassing for those who have accepted the substandard regulations in Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay on health and safety, which undermine those in the EU who produce to the highest standards.

The main argument relied on by those who advocate opening up the market is that the populations of third countries are in need. The IFA presentation and my instincts tell me that the only people who benefit from the opening up of markets are the operators of very large ranches and major landowners. As a result, people in need in Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay are probably worse off in economic terms. Can the delegates confirm that?

Did our guests meet representatives from sectors other than that relating to beef production to discuss the effect these practices have on them? Did they meet union officials — in areas where they are allowed to operate — to discuss their views on these matters?

The destruction of the rain forests in the interests of profit has done great damage to the ethnic groups who live in them as well as to the environment. Did the delegates witness this destruction and do they have comments to make in respect of it?

Sitting suspended at 12.05 p.m. and resumed at 12.30 p.m.

I apologise to members and witnesses as there may be more votes in the Dáil.

I welcome the IFA delegates and congratulate them on the initiative they have shown in their work and on the reports they have produced. We must ensure consumers are aware of the need to inform themselves. Apart from the country of origin labelling, people should, when eating out, ask the restaurant manager about the origin of any beef they consume. The IFA generated much publicity for this issue at the time its delegates went to Brazil and Argentina. It might now look at the possibility of launching an advertising campaign. It may be necessary to work in co-operation with the Department of Agriculture and Food on this. It is a worthwhile exercise to ensure consumers are aware of the issue.

I see another vote has been called in the Chamber.

I apologise to the delegates for this disruption, which is out of our control. We will return when all the votes are completed.

Sitting suspended at 12.30 p.m. and resumed at 12.45 p.m.`

I ask Deputy Crawford to be as brief as possible.

I will be brief. I congratulate the delegates on their work in Brazil and the other countries. From my experience as chairman of the livestock committee some years ago, there is nothing like seeing a situation at first hand. When I and other members of that committee first travelled to Brussels in 1979, we saw slaughter facilities that consisted of a wagon-roof shed with a cobblestone floor. There has been much progress in the intervening period.

The main issue of concern to me is that the IFA has clearly shown that there is no traceability. This is because there are effectively no regions in the sense that cattle can cross between different areas. When I raised this issue in the Dáil and questioned the practice of accepting beef from Brazil, the Minister informed me that, as far as the EU is concerned, in times of scarcity it must take the product from wherever it can obtain it. One may compare this to the situation of a farmer who, after making one mistake, may lose his or her premium for the year or perhaps suffer an even more severe penalty.

It is clear that we have a problem and we must ensure that our representatives at European level stress this point. The product in question may be dangerous. When Deputy Johnny Brady, other members and I visited the United States, we observed the use of various hormones, including stibestrol. When we raised this matter with the Taoiseach at Question Time, we were informed that we knew somewhat more than he did. This matter has been ongoing for some time. I extend my congratulations to the IFA. The issue now is: where can we bring the case from here and how can we make sure that what is going on does not continue? We must ensure farmers will not have to go to further expense to compete against a completely different product.

As a representative of the constituency of Cavan-Monaghan where poultry and pig production are important, I urge the IFA to keep pushing for traceability, not only on beef but also on other meat products because if they are not monitored, they will undermine other sectors of the meat industry, as imports will be cheaper owing to lower production standards.

I welcome Mr. Bryan and his colleagues. Their presentation was most interesting. Deputy Upton referred to the fact that the delegation had visited Brazil and seen at first hand the manner in which beef was produced in that country. It is in competition with beef produced in our regulated industry.

I acknowledge the significance of the launch of the new labelling system by the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan. That is a positive response to what has been presented to us. To clarify, the launch took place outside Fitzers restaurant where Irish beef was presented as such on the menu. I wish to correct the record in respect of what was stated by Deputy Naughten.

That is what is being reported today.

That is what is being reported in respect of what happened yesterday while members of Deputy Naughten's party were inside the restaurant. Perhaps they had different beef from that launched by the Minister yesterday. Fitzers presented Irish beef to which a clear reference is made on the menu.

A Deputy

Were the media present?

Order, please. The Deputy should be allowed to speak without interruption.

Where do we go from here? Advertising must form part of the answer. The IFA must work in partnership with the Department of Agriculture and Food and other interested bodies to develop an effective advertising campaign to promote Irish beef and highlight the manner in which we produce beef on grassland. Have other European countries undertaken similar efforts to the IFA which travelled to Brazil to highlight matters there and to help in the campaign being conducted at European level? I am interested to know if Ireland has taken the lead in this matter and how much assistance and support the IFA has gained from other European countries.

I echo the sentiments expressed by colleagues in thanking the IFA for the work it has done. The project in which it was involved was most practical. As has been said, seeing is believing. The report is most effective in that regard. As far as the committee is concerned, one of the practical things we can do is unanimously support the IFA's call for a ban on the importation of beef products from Brazil. If we could agree to this, it would be a practical first step.

On the points made by Deputy Upton on the fruit and vegetable sector, one can well ask if we are looking at a systematic failure on the part of the Food and Veterinary Office or is this a once-off?

I had a good discussion with the IFA delegation while the vote was taking place. I express my appreciation of the excellent report it has put before us. As the Chairman well knows, this is what some of us have been saying for some time and the report gives substance to that argument.

I support the call made by Deputy Ó Fearghaíl. We should unanimously support that proposal. Mr. Gaynor and his team, whom we met a couple of years ago, should be invited to return to the committee. When they came previously, they did not listen attentively to us. I do not mind saying this, now that our position has been verified by the IFA delegation.

Although this was stated in the course of private discussions with the IFA, there is no harm in saying it in public; there is a perception that Europe has become an area for the processing of imported beef, pigmeat and poultry. That is a major problem. I am most concerned about the approach taken by Commissioner Mandelson in the World Trade Organisation talks, at which we are being undermined.

I join other speakers in welcoming the IFA delegation which I thank for its presentation and highlighting this issue. I agree with what has been said by previous speakers and have no difficulty in agreeing to the proposals and supporting what the IFA intends to do. It is important for farmers, especially young farmers, that they can operate on a level playing pitch which is anything but level at present. I am aware of a young farmer who recently took some animals to the factory but because there was something wrong with the registration and tag number, an animal which had been slaughtered was immediately put into the bin. On the other hand, beef imported from Brazil is allowed in freely, in spite of the fact that there is no traceability. The circumstances under which we are operating are grossly unfair.

The use of hormones is another problematic issue. For example, in the United States beef production is enhanced through the use of hormones which have long been banned in this country and elsewhere in Europe. While I do not object to the ban, I call for fair play which is required for younger farmers who are definitely not getting it.

I compliment the IFA on its great work on this issue. We have spent millions trying to ensure traceability, disease control and so on. As the previous speaker said, there should be a level playing pitch and any beef imported into Europe should have to adhere to the same standards of traceability.

I invite Mr. Bryan to respond briefly.

Mr. Bryan

Many speakers have made the point that we have got as far as the EU Food and Veterinary Office. We have produced a report which highlights serious concerns. At this stage the matter is with Commissioner Kyprianou who is responsible for food safety and imports into the European Union. We have asked him to take action, which he has the power to do. He has several reports on his table, to which Brazil has not responded. I welcome the support expressed by several committee members for our call for a total ban. Given the lack of standards in Brazil, there is little else that can be done.

Deputy Naughten stated the previous report was damning as there were no proper systems in place in Brazil to ensure traceability. Both he and Deputy Upton welcomed country of origin labelling and it is now up to restaurants to put the scheme in place. The consumer is entitled to know what he or she is getting.

A few issues were raised. The problem is that systems are not in place in Brazil to ensure traceabilty. There is a major breakdown in this regard and something must be done. A question was asked about regionalisation. It is not even possible to guarantee that beef is not being brought across the border from Paraguay. It is not right to call it a joke but labelling counts for nothing. Certified meat products are imported into Europe but there is nothing to back them up except a piece of paper in Brazil.

Although Deputy Ferris is no longer present, I welcomed his question. No matter what anyone says, the WTO, with its agenda for the liberalisation of trade, does nothing for the poor. The reality is that it is the ranchers and businessmen make money out of it. As we saw on the ground, any expansion in industrial agriculture in Brazil was at the cost of the poor and served only to displace them from the land. There was no delivery for them.

I welcome Deputies' comments on our report. The idea was to ensure it would be independent. Given that the FVO has produced the reports for the Commission, the Chairman's proposal that its representatives address the committee might not be a bad one as they could account for the reports, the last of which was damning. We have been told that while different standards obtained abroad, they were equivalent to ours but the FVO has now recorded that they are inadequate and cannot be judged to offer guarantees equivalent to those provided by the European Union. The import is that the guarantees count for nothing. It is the same with pigs and poultry. We spoke to the Dutch farmers' organisation yesterday which is very concerned about poultry production in South America where products are used which have been banned for years in Europe. It is very concerned about the long-term damage this may cause to the whole market.

We have been leading on this issue in Europe. There is complacency about labels, given that it has been obvious that Brazil has not been meeting the standards claimed. We decided to make our independent trip, since which we have sat down with the farmers' unions of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland which have co-signed a letter with our chairman, Mr. Padraig Walshe, to Commissioner Kyprianou to the effect that they are not happy with the standards applying in Brazil. We have also sat down with and received strong support from Dutch farmers, COPA and the French. Too many people have gone on guided tours to South America and allowed themselves to be led to selected sites.

We are doing everything we can on this issue. I welcome the proposal made by members for greater promotion of Irish beef. In conjunction with the typical work of Bord Bia, there needs to be promotion of country-of-origin labelling, which we have sought for years and welcome completely. At a minimum, the consumer has the right to know from where a product comes and if that country applies the same standards as Ireland. When the consumer is told, he or she will choose Irish products. We have sat down with Bord Bia in recent days and explained that we expect it to spend money on an advertising campaign.

Mr. Kinsella

It is important that committee members are aware of the fact that a significant number of countries, including the USA, New Zealand, Australia, Japan and Korea, do not accept fresh beef imports from Brazil and other South American countries owing to health concerns and the lack of sanitary standards. Why should member states of the European Union accept a product which is not acceptable to the USA and others? The European Commission and the FVO should apply the highest standards of food safety in the world, which is what our consumers deserve. Why is there a policy in the Commission and Ireland which applies lower standards to those which obtain in the USA and elsewhere? It is a key question which political representatives should be asking of the regulators.

A number of Deputies spoke about product promotion. Farmers contribute between €5 million and €6 million to Bord Bia for the national promotion of our food produce, including beef. The IFA has asked the board to take up the challenge set out at this committee and launch an active meat promotion campaign on foot of the Government's positive legislative change on labelling. We welcome the committee's call for a total ban on meat imports from Brazil and the proposal to request FVO officials to provide answers on the results of their worthwhile reports on standards, residues and controls in Brazil.

I requested the clerk some time ago to ask Mr. Gaynor and his officials to attend. I understand a complicated protocol requires such a request to be approved by the European Parliament. We have visited them previously, which suggests it might be easier for us to go there than to ask them to come here. The office is located in my constituency, to which I would be very happy to invite members, and only 40 minutes from here. The committee will not have any difficulty visiting Grange. The request will be reiterated this afternoon. The committee supports completely a total ban on the importation of Brazilian beef. We will ask the clerk to pass on this information also.

While it is important to meet the FVO, its function is simply to produce reports and submit them to the European Commission. We need the Commissioner to come before the committee to explain exactly what action is being taken. The Commission is the body which is politically accountable for this matter. I propose we invite the Commissioner and his top officials to come before the committee to explain what action they will take on the basis of the reports presented to them by the EU Food and Veterinary Office.

I support the proposal fully. It will be done.

I also support Deputy Naughten's proposal. While the FVO reports are thorough and the recommendations set out are positive, the problem, as the follow-up report indicates, is the recommendations have not been implemented. The key question is: what sanctions are available? It is a waste of time and money to continue to import from a country in which the European Commission's recommendations are not implemented. Rather than produce further reports, we need sanctions to be imposed and decisions taken by those empowered to do so. Clearly, that is not the FVO.

Is Deputy Naughten's proposal agreed? Agreed. I thank the IFA delegation for attending and apologise for the interruptions caused by divisions which were outside our control.

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