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JOINT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, NATURAL RESOURCES AND AGRICULTURE debate -
Wednesday, 21 Mar 2012

Ocean Wealth Report: Discussion with Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine

The purpose of this meeting is to discuss the report on ocean wealth. I welcome the following: the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney; Mr. Cecil Beamish, Assistant Secretary, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine; Mr. Philip Hamell, Assistant Secretary, Office of the Taoiseach; and Dr. Paul Connolly, director of the fisheries science services team at the Marine Institute. I thank the witnesses for attending to brief the committee on the report on our ocean wealth.

On the matter of privilege, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence you are to give this committee. However, if you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and you continue to so do, you are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and you are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I ask the Minister to make his opening statement.

I think most members have the document before the committee. I thank the Chairman for asking me to come before the committee this morning. I asked if we could make a brief presentation to the committee on what the Government is trying to do in terms of putting an integrated marine plan in place for Ireland for the first time. Essentially, what this is trying to do is pull all of the strands of the potential of the ocean and our marine resource and capture that in a sustainable and a renewable way that can create jobs, wealth, employment and commercial opportunity as well as an environmental and leisure resource.

It is true that, historically, many people in Ireland would have turned their back on the sea and we are trying to turn our face to it now. There are some people in this room who know and, in some cases, have worked on the sea in the past and they will probably understand what I am talking about.

No Government has ever attempted to put together a comprehensive marine integrated strategy for the country that involves everything from ocean energy to shipping, marine leisure, fishing, marine tourism, oil and gas exploration and all of the other opportunities that exist. I remind members of the extent of the resource we have. For every 1 sq. km. of land in Ireland we have 9 sq. km. of seabed, and all of the sea above that. We probably have the most fertile fishing waters in the European Union. We have potentially a hugely rich seabed in terms of the natural resources that may be under that seabed and we have 7,500 km of coastline, much of it very dramatic and beautiful, that can and is already attracting large numbers of people from a tourism point of view. We have some of the most impressive natural harbours and bays in the world, never mind in the European Union, that offer significant potential in a series of different areas from aquaculture to marine leisure, shipping, cruise line traffic and so on. Some of these industries are being developed ambitiously and others are not.

In the same way the previous Government got the industry to put together a plan for the development of the agrifood industry that has pulled everybody in the same direction in terms of setting targets for growth and expansion, whether one is a farmer, a processor, a food company, an exporter or an academic, everybody has bought into roughly the same targets in terms of where we want to take the food industry, and it is working in an impressive way. We want to try to do the same for the marine sector, and that is an even more ambitious project.

A nice piece of dinner table or pub information is that if one were to take Ireland's marine resource as part of our sovereign territory, add it to our land resource and compare that to other European countries we would probably be the third or fourth largest country physically in the European Union. This is a huge resource. We are talking about 1 million sq. km. in terms of land and sea, and 900,000 sq. km. in terms of sea.

If we consider the opportunity, the marine industry internationally is worth approximately €1.2 trillion a year. Many people dismissed that at an early stage as accounting for mostly oil and gas but it is not. In terms of the way that is broken up, members will see that it is evenly spread across a series of sectors from seafood to aquaculture, offshore oil and gas, renewable energies, shipping, marine commerce, marine tourism and ocean survey work. The green middle pillar indicated is by far the biggest in terms of value. The right-hand side of the graph is predominantly around manufacturing of marine bio-tech, marine ITC, marine equipment and so on but the services sector is the biggest of the three.

If we look at all of those headings, Ireland has a piece in all of them. Regarding our expansion plans for seafood in terms of fishing and aquaculture, this year the Irish fishing fleet will have over €250 million of fish to catch in terms of quota which was negotiated in December. However, the most exciting growth area on the seafood side is in aquaculture and fish farming but we must be sensitive in terms of where we do that. We need a proper licensing system. We are being forced to do that by the Commission, and rightly so, but we will see a dramatic expansion of aquaculture and fish farming in Ireland in the next five to ten years, particularly in terms of deep water salmon farming. We have the first application for a site 6 km off Galway, 1.5 km east of the southern most Arann island in Galway Bay. It is an application for a salmon farm that will produce 15,000 tonnes of salmon a year.

When we consider that nationally we only produce 12,000 tonnes of salmon a year in total, this one farm alone will double the salmon output from Ireland, which is badly needed. Many of the fish processors in Ireland have to import their salmon from Scotland to fill their orders. Markets are not the problem in the salmon area. Supply and volume is the problem. We have very high quality produce here. It is organic Atlantic salmon. It has a price about 40% above international salmon prices that are produced in much more intense systems. We are planning to expand organic salmon farming in Ireland in a way that is responsible, sympathetic to the environment and very much sustainable but also in a way that will be commercially exciting. The licence is being applied for by Bord Iascaigh Mhara. The site has been chosen by the Marine Institute after much work and research and also working with environmental agencies within Government to make sure we get it right. If that licence is granted, we will then tender it to the private sector to operate it and the estimated turnover at current salmon prices is approximately €103 million a year for one farm. The employment dividend will be between 300 and 400 jobs and the capital cost of putting the cages in the water will be between €50 million and €60 million. This is big business and we hope to build a number of these along the west coast and possibly, the south-west and east coasts. However, one must get the environment right in terms of wave size and consistency and exposure and that is why we are lucky to have scientists of the calibre of Dr. Paul Connolly because the Marine Institute is leading the research.

This is a good example of a new opportunity in seafood is being taken by the Government. We understand that many coastal communities are concerned about the private sector taking the lead in choosing sites for salmon farming and we have decided to choose the sites through the Marine Institute and BIM, thus working with local communities in a positive and proactive way and giving people all the information they want and more in order that we try to bring them with us on this. The deep water salmon farming project will be of huge interest, particularly to communities on the west coast, because of the commercial opportunities available and because it is being done in a way that is sensible and sympathetic to the management of the environment and the stock that will be properly developed. One will be unable to see this fish farm from the mainland because it will be too far offshore. One will only see it, according to the modelling that has been done, from the Aran Islands on a clear day. The visual impact will be practically zero even through there will be a massive physical scale of production. This is an example of an opportunity Ireland has not taken in the past but will in the future and the way in which we plan to do that is sustainable, environmentally responsible and commercially exciting.

We can do in this in many other areas. Cruise liner traffic is an example. This year, 60 cruise liners will dock near Cobh in Cork harbour. Each ship will have an average of 3,000 people on board with each spending approximately €200 over a weekend. That is a significant capital injection into a local economy. Deputy Ferris will be glad to hear many of the passengers travel to Kerry by bus. We are looking to keep more of them in Cork. This is also a good example of an expanding sector. This year, 83 ships will dock in Dublin while the same number will dock in Cork next year. There are opportunities for other harbours such as Killybegs, Rossaveal and those on the south-west coast. We hope by midsummer to have an integrated maritime strategy that can take account of the potential and opportunity in all these sectors and not only in shipping, aquaculture and fishing from the point of view of tourism, manufacturing and offshore renewables and oil and gas exploration. This will also embrace more specialist areas such as seaweed farming.

The reason I wanted to address the committee at this stage is we are in middle of a public consultation process to get ideas and views. This document will give members a good flavour of the opportunities that exist and it puts numbers on some of them. One could read it in half an hour. It will give the committee a good basis for thinking about this issue in a constructive way. By the end of the month, we want to have the input from the public consultation process. I recognise that the timetable is tight from the committee's point of view. If the committee wants to make a submission, we will happily take it after the deadline. If members want to take a few additional weeks, that will not be the end of the world. However, the deadline will not be extended generally for everybody but because it was not possible for me to attend the committee before today, it is up to the committee to decide whether it wants to make a contribution. I would like to hear from members.

Rather than having an open ended public consultation process about the potential of the marine sector generally, we decided to publish ten questions at the back of the document for people to answer. If they want to express views on other areas, that is fine. It would be useful if the committee would try to answer the questions and give us some feedback because members have a wealth of experience and knowledge.

I am a passionate supporter of sustainable exploitation of the potential in our marine resources, predominantly off the west coast. However, there is a significant resource off the east and south coasts. We have this vast untapped resource. Some industries are developing in an exciting way to use that resource. Other industries are yet to be developed and the intention behind the integrated plan is to pull all of the ambition together in one document in order that people will know where the Government wants to take the marine resource and where Ireland is heading in the context of how to harness the potential of this resource. This will enable the private sector to act on that and make appropriate investments consistent with that.

With regard to investment in the food industry, because private sector operators have a clear picture about the ambition and targets of the Government sector by sector, a complementary growth story is emerging between private and public sector interests. We can do the same in the marine sector and I would be interested in members' comments on that.

I am accompanied by Dr. Paul Connolly of the Marine Institute. He is lreland's and probably Europe's leading expert in assessing fish stocks, as he works with the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, ICES. Mr. Cecil Beamish is the head of the marine section of my Department and Mr. Philip Hamell is assistant secretary in the Department of the Taoiseach. It says a great deal about this project that it is being led by the Taoiseach's Department. He will launch it. We are developing this through the marine co-ordination committee in government which pulls together a series of Departments that have an interest in the marine, including the Departments of Defence; Communications, Energy and Natural Resources; Transport, Tourism and Sport; Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht; and my Department. It is being led by the Taoiseach's Department, which requires every Department to co-operate in full and to make to people available for the meetings. That process has worked well so far.

I thank the Minister. It is ironic that the PowerPoint page refers to Norway's experience because we had a meeting yesterday with the assistant director of the Norwegian Ministry for Petroleum and Energy. The graph displaying the three pillars where wealth is generated out of the oceans gave us an informative insight into how Norway maximised that part of its resources. It is timely that today's presentation follows on from that and I call Deputy Ó Cuív first.

I welcome the Minister. It is timely for us to examine the great potential of the oceans. I also welcome the document because it puts together a short list of all of the different uses being made of the seas around our coast.

As a former Minister I believe it was a mistake to break up the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources. As can be seen by looking at the headings in the presentation, it was less complicated when one had most of the marine activities in one Department, including the functions given to the Departments of transport and agriculture. The current arrangement will be a lot more complicated and there will be a lot more turf wars. I know we started the break up of the Department but it was never explained, not even to Ministers, why the decision was taken. It seems to me that the previous Government did not give the kind of priority to marine affairs that the Government does now and I welcome that. We need a Minister to just manage a portfolio consisting of the marine and natural resources because it seems that a little bit of the fisheries sector was given to the Department of agriculture.

I welcome the document. The seas around us are full of unrealised potential. I know the Marine Institute has published the map for a long time and that its director keeps saying that we have more land under water than we have dry land and we should concentrate on it. One of my worries is the global plan and how quickly time will pass for the Minister. If the Minister gets five years in government - I presume the Government does not intend introducing a law to allow it to last for seven years, even though it might be permissible under the Constitution - he will find that time will pass very fast. One of the challenges he faces is that while he draws up a great new strategy and tries to pull everything together - he will probably tell me that he will have it all done in six months - he will probably have 90% of it done in six months, but then the turf war will start between him and the Department. He will spend another year trying to resolve the problem in order to get the final document published. That has been the experience of every Minister for the past 30 years. Writing a document and reaching a certain stage can be quite fast but getting different Departments to sign it off can take an age because they have a great ability to involve themselves in minor details. The Minister may tell me today, like we all did, that he is confident he will not be delayed. I hope that he is not but I will not bet on it. For that reason I suggest that he runs a parallel process. In other words, while he draws up a large strategy for this country to examine its ocean resources, he should go ahead with all of the issues that do not conflict with another part of the strategy and can be resolved. Oil exploration and all sorts of other issues will go ahead but other issues can also go ahead in parallel with him drawing up a large plan.

The marine leisure sector was one of the issues I concentrated on when I was the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. It includes everything from ocean going yachts which are attractive to Ireland because the larger they are, the more likely they are to sail into the west coast. The seas around our coast do not cause a difficulty for such large yachts. We also have a lot of sheltered waters all the way around our coast. If one examines the yachting sector, the stretch of coast from Dún Laoghaire to Cork is reasonably well developed but from Cork to Donegal and around Northern Ireland has not been developed in a co-ordinated fashion. There are a few marinas but no co-ordinated plan. When one examines the sector, including surfing, swimming, cliff climbing and every activity related to water, ranging from people who want to sail around Lough Atalia in Galway, the city's marine lake, to those who want to see Galway Bay, sail up the west coast in larger boats and find traditional crafts, one could create between 3,000 and 5,000 jobs. During my time in office it was possible to build a lot of basic infrastructure with a modest amount of public sector investment. We built sheltered harbours in places like Inis Mór, Inis Méain and Inishbofin and now it would be relatively simple to create a marina. Harbours cost the most but it would not cost much to create a marina now that we have sheltered waters. Are there any plans for the marine leisure sector? What about sea angling? I could go on all day about the possibilities for the industry to create jobs fast. It could be done in parallel with the development of a wider strategy. There is very little that cannot be accommodated within the existing procedures.

My party linked marine leisure with rural leisure and it led to a good synergy. Is there much difference between hang-gliding off a mountain and hang-gliding off a cliff into the sea? Is there much difference between lake angling and sea angling? When does salmon become inland or marine based? We linked marine leisure to rural recreation. Despite the progress made over the past five years since we set up Comhairle na Tuaithe, we only scratched the surface of rural recreation. We did a lot of work on walkways and we did a little bit of work on mountain bike trails but there are a lot of other activities to be catered for, even painting and all sorts of pursuits. I understand Comhairle na Tuaithe still exists but it does not hold any meetings, which is a pity. Will the Minister set up Comhairle na Tuaithe agus na Mara or a rural and marine recreation council involving all of the stakeholders? It could develop an expanding sector and create jobs in areas that might not otherwise get sustainable jobs. A lot of areas with high levels of unemployment have a very low prospect of other types of jobs, such as industrial jobs, and are ideal internationally for marine leisure activities.

As the Minister will know, this committee has worked on the oil and gas exploration issue. A lot of good work was done and I pay tribute to the chairperson for guiding us well. Obviously, aquaculture is of great interest too. My worry about fin fish farming is that it has a bad financial history here. There has been great investment followed by great losses, which seems to be cyclical. How has the Minister dealt with the problem? All things being equal, shellfish farming and natural aquaculture where food comes from the sea rather than importing food and dumping it in the sea, has a great attraction. How much effort and commitment will be given to that side of the aquaculture industry and seaweed and shellfish farming? The Minister will know that the industry is constrained because we do not have a base and one has not been surveyed for ecological interests.

Will a national strategy for cruise liners and attracting that type of tourist be created? It is a large market. We have renewable ocean energy, and we are told that wind energy from the sea may not be viable. Due to its predictability tidal energy seems to have huge attractions if it could be harnessed. I understand that if ever it becomes a viable technology there are areas in Ireland where it will be very viable. We also have wave energy.

An American ambassador I met told me that if we become the leading country in technology and invest in technology development through our universities and institutes of technology, in both renewable ocean energy and also in terms of oil and gas exploration which, because we are on a frontier, could lead us to be innovative in dealing with these challenges, we might make more money out of it. This is because we have the ocean on which to test the technology and we might make more money out of this than we might make from energy or oil production. Is there an intention to link up with third level institutions in terms of becoming a world leader both in ocean energy in general - I am aware the Marine Institute is doing work in that regard - but particularly in regard to renewable energy and offshore oil and gas exploration?

I wholeheartedly welcome the approach and the strategy behind this project. A great deal of thought has gone into it and it appears to come from a proactive point of view. I concur with what the Minister said in his introduction about making a comparison between the agricultural and the marine sectors. He said there was a joined-up approach in the agricultural sector but that was not the case in the marine sector or in coastal communities. This process is the way forward and it has huge opportunities for development, both from the point of view of the marine sector as well as marine tourism and commerce and the potential from offshore renewables. All of that augurs well if the political commitment exists and I take it from what the Minister said that there is a political commitment to bring that about.

The potential exists for everybody to see but what is lacking is a strategy or a cohesive or integrated plan. This process, if it comes to fruition, offers that opportunity. Along with anybody who lives in a coastal community I am very much aware of the number of young people who have left those areas in recent years and the number not going into the sector because of its lack of viability. Even from a fishing perspective, with the exception of a few small areas fishing has been in continuing decline for a considerable time and it needs an injection and a joined up approach. If a joined-up approach is taken, with complementary industries to sustain the fishing sector, that would augur well for the future.

The Minister mentioned at the outset the huge potential in the aquaculture sector. I do not disagree with that but I also see many problems in it. Dr. Paul Connolly may be able to give us a run-down on that, particularly in terms of contamination. The Minister mentioned the farm salmon project taking place, all things being equal, off the coast of Galway. I would be relaxed on that if I was assured that there would not be any cross-contamination with wild salmon. That would be a worry for many people. The same contamination worries arise in other sectors involved in aquaculture where wild fishing is taking place.

We had a presentation yesterday from the Norwegian assistant minister on the offshore oil and gas development in Norway. It was a huge education for all of us and it also showed how things can be done when the right approach is taken. What impressed me most were the negotiations with communities that could be affected by that project which were done prior to the project going ahead. In my view opposition to any project in that country was overcome because people could see the dividends in their communities. They also took every opportunity to ensure that they were not imposing something on a community if there was any fear in terms of the people or their children. There was a huge dividend going back to the communities, and that was seen as very important.

I was impressed by the mention of cruise liners bringing tourism into an area. That is another way to proceed. Many areas will be looking for something like that to be developed from a tourism perspective but there are very few ports around Ireland that would be capable of facilitating cruise liners of that size. It might be able to be done with smaller craft.

I want to approach this project in the most positive way possible. I understand the importance of a project such as this one, if it is to succeed, to rural Ireland in particular. It would be hugely important and could be the lifesaver in many parts of rural Ireland. I have no doubt this project is the way forward.

On the issue of renewable ocean energy, Deputy Ó Cuív mentioned institutes of technology and the technology aspect generally but when talking about tidal or wave energy, the importance of having that technology aspect complement what the Minister is trying to do in a practical way is something that must be examined. Whatever investment is necessary to go into that should be sought and put into it. I thank the Minister for the presentation.

I thank the Minister for the presentation. I refer to the presentation before the committee yesterday and what came across from it was the importance of mapping and the data on our continental shelf in terms of knowing what it can yield. What came across also was the importance of private companies operating in the areas around the continental shelf sharing their data and information with the Government, and that nobody should have a monopoly on the potential of any of these ocean areas.

I am greatly concerned about the conservation methods. We cannot continuously take from the ocean because it is so vast. Human beings have a tendency to think they do not have to put something back but it is vitally important that we get our conservation methods, and the entire area of sustainability, correct because we will not get a second go at conservation.

I welcome the strategy for tourism but our marine area should not be seen in isolation from our inland waterways. Are they being brought into the consultation? I am not sure if the Minister is aware of a really exciting project, on which Carlow County Council is taking the lead, encouraging people to sail around Ireland but they can then go through the port of New Ross up to St. Mullins. Uniquely people can navigate from St. Mullins through the whole of Ireland and come out in Northern Ireland. I am not sure whether the public are aware of it or if it is being promoted in any way. We should not deal with our inland waterways and our marine in isolation. That particular project marries the marine and the inland waterways. Using the sea and our inland waterways represents a great value-for-money tourism product and needs to be promoted as such. It is not excessively costly for tourists. While Ireland has always been seen as quite an expensive place to come and holiday, the waterways represent particularly good value for money.

I welcome the Minister and I welcome the document. One of the most important things we need to do is to change the mindset. While we hear it often enough and it is often said flippantly, we are a small island nation on the periphery of the European Continent. We do not think like an island and do not think about the marine by and large. Many people even those in coastal communities may well turn their backs on the marine. Too many people might see obstacles to trade and access that they regard as a problem. Many people see it as an opportunity and make their living from it. They spend their leisure time on it and it is their highway. However, we need to expand that and do so in a sustainable way. I am glad the Minister linked it in with the Food Harvest 2020 document. That type of lead approach is needed to raise the awareness to exploit in a sustainable way the potential the seas have. That will need to be done in many micro-strategies that are already taking place. That will need to be reinforced somewhat. Obviously the Minister has recognised the potential of aquaculture. Where suitable sites are identified and it is done in a constructive sustainable way with the private sector, there is potential for the sea to create jobs in areas that will not easily attract manufacturing or high-end jobs as IDA Ireland or Enterprise Ireland can do. It takes considerable investment as well as consultation and agreement. They are not quick fixes - it takes time and is welcome.

I am from Cork and the Port of Cork is working with local authorities on further developing cruise-line traffic beyond what may be the capacity of the Port of Cork and perhaps expanding it in a small but not insignificant way to other areas delivering immense benefit. That ties in with providing onshore facilities that will provide onshore jobs. For example, some people do not realise the provision of excursions is a marine leisure spin-off. Even though we are an island nation, we do not make that link readily as we should do. Many counties have their own marine leisure strategies and this strategy should be informed by those. I again refer to Cork, which I know best. It has identified small ports and areas that are suitable for different types of marine leisure. They will support infrastructure and projects to benefit those areas. We need that kind of joined-up thinking between this overall strategy and small local micro-strategies in coastal areas.

One of the most difficult areas to manage is that of sea fisheries. Fish stocks are finite and many are in difficulty, but some are not. The Marine Institute has done great work in this regard. In the south west a boarfish fishery has opened up. Further work could be done on those to provide more onshore jobs. The Marine Institute could have a major role in identifying the potential for processing, on which we need more knowledge.

Regarding the overall strategy, we need to change our consumer trends. While it is not inaccurate, I am oversimplifying it somewhat. The fish we eat we import: the fish we catch we export. That is not entirely true, but it is by and large. The English Market in Cork got great publicity at the time of the visit of Queen Elizabeth II. We should be trying to encourage that type of product on to the market rather than fish fingers, which are invariably imported. That is a huge job and will be a slow burn and a change of mindset. That is how we will add value to the sea fisheries. It will also provide for onshore jobs and ultimately on to the marketplace and link into our marine industry.

Many of the previous speakers have referred to yesterday's presentations by the Norwegian ambassador and the assistant director of the Norwegian Ministry for Petroleum and Energy. Their approach encompasses sea fisheries, transport, shipping, consultation and an overall plan. They said that the lead-in time for an energy-exploitation project could be up to 25 years. The interdepartmental approach Norway has taken is similar to the one the Minister is taking through the maritime council and the Department of the Taoiseach. It would be welcome to have an overarching department of the marine. Something like this involves up to half a dozen Departments, including the Departments of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the Environment, Community and Local Government, Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and Agriculture, Food and Marine. Almost half of all Departments would be directly impacted by this document. As they all have a role, I hope they will also make submissions on this.

To say we have untapped potential is an understatement. To manage it will be difficult and it will be long term. There are many other micro-strategies involving local authorities, private companies, State agencies, interest groups and even down to local communities. We should encourage people to read this document and give input. It would then be owned by those directly involved. I refer to the integrated coastal zone study in Bantry Bay in the early 2000s. While it was particular to Bantry Bay, it was a good template for planning for marine zones. Many stakeholders had to make difficult decisions. Unfortunately it seems to have been more or less shelved and is not referred to in many other documents. Such issues must be dealt with eventually in terms of how we zone our offshore resources in an integrated manner. This is a welcome strategy overall and one we should publicise. We need to change the mindset of many people in this country who sometimes forget that we are an island. There is not one house in the country more than two hours' drive or 50 or 60 miles from the sea. We are all coastal and we must get that message across. This affects everyone whether in Athlone, Dún Laoghaire or Galway. This has a direct impact on our well-being and it must be put forward in this way.

I welcome the Minister's attendance today. I also welcome the development of an integrated marine plan for Ireland. As the Minister indicated, it is badly needed and a testament to the work he has done in the Department since he took over. I wish to develop what Deputy Noel Harrington said about the need to change the mindset. Clearly we need to change the mindset but we must also change the mindset of local government. There is no point in the Government trying to move this on if local government puts up barriers or acts as a hindrance. I wish to highlight one illustrative example involving the town of Doonbeg in west Clare. The committee may be aware that Doonbeg has an important tourism infrastructure, including Doonbeg golf club. It is home to the west Clare drama festival and there is a famous seafood restaurant there. However, it has a very small fishing industry. The people of Doonbeg carried out fundraising to develop a pier there. It will be the only pier in west Clare. There is a clear need for piers in west Clare of the type that the former Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, delivered to all three of the Aran Islands during his term.

It was to two islands.

I left one for the current Government.

As the Meatloaf song goes, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad". Everything is in place in Doonbeg. There is a tourism industry there and there are possibilities for marine tourism. Clearly there are possibilities to increase seafood. However, those involved discovered that the planning permission they had obtained and which they had applied for in good faith from Clare County Council was deficient. Clare County Council had somehow forgotten to assess the impact it would have on the special area of conservation, SAC, which encompasses Doonbeg. The county development plan in Clare takes account of many areas and has much to commend it. However, it does not adequately acknowledge the marine potential of Clare. Will the Minister outline how he intends to impress upon local authorities the need to develop infrastructure for the marine? How will local authorities take account of the considerable potential of the marine in the local authority development plans and in their policies generally?

I thank the Minister and his officials for what is an easy-to-read document that opens the mind. As a member of committee from an inland county, the potential of the ocean was not something I had given any great amount of thought to before I joined the committee. Since then my mind has been opened on the energy and natural resource side as well as the fisheries side in respect of the vast potential which remains, in many respects, untapped. I agree with the sentiments expressed by my colleague, Deputy Harrington, who referred to the marketing of our produce.

Ireland is marketed as the food island and the green island with the picture of the cow grazing the lovely, lush, green grass. This is how we market the country to our own citizens as well as internationally. It is a welcome development to get people into the right frame of mind and to begin a national debate on tapping into the potential of our ocean and what it has to offer. I also welcome the fact that the Department of the Taoiseach is actively involved. It would be ideal if everything came in under one Department but that is not possible. Not only does this area cover natural resources and fisheries but it also covers tourism, the environment and so on. It is important for the Department of the Taoiseach to play an active role in this regard.

We need to get the economy back on its feet and examine where we go from here. I have stated repeatedly that we do not need to reinvent the wheel. We do not need to dream up many new things. We should examine what we have, including our natural resources and our natural talents as a nation. The Food Harvest 2020 report does this in many respects in the case of agriculture. This report has the potential to do the same for the marine. It is timely that we are examining this area in this way. Also, it has the potential to focus and create jobs in areas that are largely not urban areas and which are not built up. Such areas have serious difficulties with unemployment at present. Too often our focus is on high-quality jobs in large urban areas while the more marginalised areas get left behind.

The Minister's views on the challenges we face were interesting. One challenge is the low cost of imports. Does the Minister believe we should up the amount of fisheries we catch? Should we move to the higher end of fisheries? Should we focus on the processing end? I understand there is considerable potential to land greater catches. Although it does not fall under the remit of the Minister's Department, there a reference to the sustainable exploitation of resources. How does the Minister envisage our surmounting that challenge? There is not enough exploitation or exploration of our gas and oil reserves off the coast. How do we encourage this without giving away our grasp on it?

I call on the Minister, Deputy Coveney, to respond. Has the Minister had much engagement from the various interest sectors, including the fisheries organisations and those involved in aquaculture, energy and natural resources?

I will try to answer all of those questions. It is important to make the point that this document will not deal with the minutiae of all of these policies. It cannot do that and even if it attempted to do so, the issue raised by Deputy Ó Cuív would be a considerable barrier. I cannot do Deputy Pat Rabbitte's job in terms of oil and gas exploration. I cannot do Deputy Leo Varadkar's job in terms of shipping. However, I lead the Department with responsibility not for agriculture, food and fisheries but agriculture, food and the marine. From my first week in office I tried to pull more marine sectors into my Department from other Departments. The marine leisure and marine tourism portfolios came from what was the former Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands. Deputy Ó Cuív headed that Department for a time. There was a change in the structure of Departments. As a result the marine leisure portfolio had no budget. I wanted it because I have a real interest in the area and because I see great potential in it. We took marine leisure into our Department with a budget of €1.

It should have been there all along.

Let us be clear. Subsequently, I met the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, and I discussed the matter with Fáilte Ireland. Now, we are trying to put in place a mechanism that will allow us influence of marine leisure policy as it relates to tourism and sporting opportunities and so on. The aim is to share ideas, to get a budget from whatever Department and to allocate some resources into this area. Each of the Departments, including the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Department of Defence, the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the Department of the Taoiseach, the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, as well as the Attorney General's Office and the Marine Institute are on the marine co-ordination group. Some of the Departments already have documents in their sectoral areas. For example, a great deal of work has been done on offshore energy potential in Ireland. The relevant Department has no wish for its documents to have to feed into this document in minute detail. Instead, this is an overarching statement of ambition that takes the growth potential of all the sectoral plans and puts them into one document so that we can sell Ireland as a destination for investment in a series of areas and so that we can reinforce the message that Ireland is not only open for business but that it is ambitious to facilitate growth in this sector.

Most of the money that materialises in this sector will be private sector money. As much as we would wish to have tens of millions of euro to spend building marinas and piers and putting in place new jetties for shipping, most of the infrastructure that will be built to facilitate the growth of these areas will be private sector investment. This will be the case as regards aquaculture. We will use the power, influence and decision-making capacity of the State to give some leadership in this area and to demonstrate the State's policy. We are already attempting to resolve the crazy foreshore licence application process. Some members were involved in various campaigns to build jetties, piers or marinas and they will know there had been separate application processes for a foreshore licence and then for planning permission for any structure. There was no correlation between the two and they worked to different timeframes. A planning permission decision had to be given within two months while a decision on a foreshore licence could take two years. We are now putting foreshore and planning decisions into the one Department, with the exception of fishing infrastructure which stays in my Department. In time and by means of legislation, we need to make the process simpler for the development of infrastructure in Ireland and to send out the signal that the process will not take three to four years. We will ensure the process will allow for the protection of the environment, ecosystems and sustainability, as referred to by Deputy Phelan. The marine co-ordination group and the Departments concerned are all hoping this strategy will be launched by mid-summer. I hope there will not be departmental turf wars but I may well have to eat my words. Deputy Ó Cuív has much more experience in this regard. I am receiving much co-operation and people from all the Departments involved are excited and enthusiastic about the project. I agree there is a need for a parallel process. We need to facilitate the existing list of things to do in this area. I refer in particular to the aquaculture area and the fact that more foreign boats are being encouraged to land in Irish ports so that their catches can be processed here. A good example is Killybegs where Norwegian boats are landing blue whiting which is worth a fortune to the processing sector in Killybegs. This is a great news story. Killybegs has an excellent processing infrastructure which can process large volumes of fish. It is hoped to have French trawlers landing whitefish into our ports. Obviously we want to have Irish trawlers catching as much as is physically possible but the second next best option is to have fish caught in Irish waters being processed in Ireland. Most of the jobs in the fishing industry are in processing and added value.

As regards the marine leisure sector, it will not come as a surprise that I am a big supporter of marine leisure and I look forward to an exciting summer season with the Atlantic Challenge in Bantry Bay, Cork Week in Cork Harbour, the tall ships in Dublin, and the Volvo Ocean Challenge, which is the biggest event of all, in Galway for a second time in three years. On the last occasion it attracted 650,000 people to Galway and this time more are expected. It was worth €50 million to the local economy. This is big business and it is not just about people going out sailing in yachts, which is how it is referred to as being an elitist sport. These events support local jobs in the service and hospitality industries and it is a big tourism product which Ireland needs to develop. I have been fortunate to travel to lots of parts of the world by sea and there are very few countries anywhere in the world with natural beauty and natural harbours such as in this country.

I am a strong believer in the necklace philosophy of linking harbours with marinas. If we are to be honest, the way in which marinas were developed historically may not have been as strategic as it should have been. We need to put a proper spatial strategy in place to decide where this infrastructure is needed rather than driving infrastructure into areas where there happens to be a strong political influence.

On the question about paragliding, I regularly see paragliders flying off cliffs of the Cork coast. I have a coastal farm and people often arrive and help themselves to our coastline. I have spoken to Fáilte Ireland which is developing an exciting concept of an Atlantic way along the coast, starting in Cork and going up to Donegal and marketing the whole coastline rather than by county. A visitor from the United States does not make a distinction between different counties unless there is a family connection. Such visitors regard Ireland as a wild island out in the Atlantic with fantastic cliffs and coastal amenity and they want to travel along that Atlantic way. I agree with the suggestion about linking in with county development plans. It is hoped that this plan will become the basis for decisions by local authorities so that they will talk about the Atlantic way. For example, this means that Kerry and Clare will be able to talk to each other about how they can create tourism linkages.

On the question about the development of technology, I refer to the work of the Marine Institute's SmartBay project in Galway which is working with IBM and a series of software developers and telecommunications companies on the seabed technology which is analysing everything from currents to temperatures and other data in Galway Bay. Ireland is a world leader in this type of technology. The National Maritime College and the Naval Service base in Cork will be neighbours to a project called IMERC, which is the Irish Marine Energy Research Cluster. This will have what could be the best research facilities in the world for wave energy testing tanks. The biggest tank will be 34 m long by 4 m deep. This is big infrastructure which is being constructed with support from the European Union which will allow Ireland become a world leader in certain areas, just like the Norwegians and the Danes in specialist areas such as wind energy and offshore oil and gas exploration. Ireland can do the same for wave energy but investment is needed. Some of these projects are already in place.

I take the point about shellfish and aquaculture. Just because I talk a lot about the deep sea salmon farming potential does not mean we are not trying to get over the barriers around designated bays as special areas of conservation. We have tried to increase the pace of assessment in those bays so that we can take applications for aquaculture. The Department has granted some aquaculture licences in the past six to eight months for the first time in four years because the bays have been assessed and decisions have been taken on the basis of those environmental impact assessments. While I wish to expand this industry I will insist on only allowing aquaculture and fish farming activity where it is in sympathy with the environment of the bays. Our bays are a jewel of a resource which cannot be polluted or destroyed by over-commercialising some of the activities. It is a question of balancing the potential for growth in this industry with the delicately balanced ecosystems. Dr. Paul Connolly is the expert in this area but I listen and learn from him every time he speaks.

I refer to the points made by Deputy Ferris. This country has made great strides with regard to salmon farming in terms of licensing and in the control of lice and disease control in general. It is true that in the past the mechanism to deal with poorly managed salmon farms was not as good as it should have been but the opposite is now the case, certainly from the information I can gather. If any member would like a detailed briefing on salmon farming generally or on the deep-sea project they can come to the Department and I will bring in the experts and discuss it. I do not believe this is a big issue but it is a big issue in some people's minds, and that involves a combination of us putting the systems in place to ensure if a problem arises there is a trigger and a response to that trigger which deals with the problem comprehensively.

Ireland is dealing with the lice issue in salmon farms, for example, as efficiently if not more efficiently than any other country. That is because we had problems in the past and have put a system in place to try to deal with it. I would happily have that system tested and if what I am saying is incorrect I will listen to people's criticisms. My understanding is that we have made huge strides in this area and people should not have concerns as a result of that. If they do, I want to give the full facts and explanations that are needed.

Regarding investment in offshore energy, I am buoyed up by the oil and gas exploration potential because we have just had a find off the west Cork coast which may produce over 350,000 barrels of oil a day if we can bring that ashore. We should learn from the mistakes with the Shell fiasco in Corrib that have delayed the bringing of gas ashore much longer than should have been the case. Many people were at fault in that regard but there is an opportunity now to learn from those mistakes and bring oil ashore into Cork in a way that can guarantee a future for the oil refinery in Cork Harbour and also provide a significant dividend for the economy generally.

That is a good news story but we need more oil and gas exploration in Ireland in the coming years. I am trying to get the balance right between a taxation system that attracts private investment, which costs approximately $70 million per exploratory drill, while ensuring that if there is a find Ireland gets the right return for its natural resource. That is a constant balance that this Government will keep under review.

On Deputy Phelan's question about data collection, I am not aware of any project that has mapped a seabed as comprehensively as the Marine Institute has done within Irish sovereign territory and it is all available to the public. Deputy Phelan made the point that Norway maps the seabed and makes those data available to everybody but we do that too. We should recognise some of the good things we do. All of the information the Marine Institute has put together in the past ten years, and to be fair this is a process that has been ongoing and was progressed impressively during the reign of previous Ministers and is very much driven by the Marine Institute, is available for oil and gas exploration companies to examine and make educated decisions based on it.

The issue of the link between marine and inland waterways is somewhat frustrating for me in that people frequently talk to me about salmon. However, apart from salmon farming I have no remit to make any decision to do with salmon as it is under the remit of a different Department because of the link with inland waterways. We will try to take account of that in this document but primarily this is about a marine resource at sea. However, I take Deputy Phelan's point about the need to link with inland waterways. It probably links with the point Deputy Ó Cuív made earlier about this Department being split in the past but we have been trying to put it back together.

I have probably answered some of Deputy Harrington's questions. In terms of adding value to seafood, the BIM Seafood Development Centre in Clonakilty is an interesting template I would like to replicate in other food areas where, essentially, any seafood company can book time in the Seafood Development Centre to work with scientists there and learn how best to add value, meet consumer demands and so on in terms of the products they are catching. That has been a successful project and it has not cost a fortune. We should be doing the same in other food sectors. It is great to see the seafood sector and BIM leading on it.

In response to Deputy McNamara, I am not familiar with the case in Doonbeg in west Clare, but I share his frustration regarding that particular project. We have issued an invitation for submissions from local authorities which have relatively small coastal access to projects around piers and slipways, repairing piers and so on for some funding from my Department. I would love to have ten times what I have to spend in this area. This year we will have only about €1 million to spend, and we have received applications from many local authorities. Unfortunately, we have many more applications than we will be able to fulfil but over time we hope to be able to do that.

In response to Deputy Heydon's question on the marketing of Ireland, when people think about Irish food they think about green fields, primarily beef and milk and some lamb. I am very ambitious for the agrifood sector but in my view the potential for growth in the seafood sector eclipses the actual percentage growth potential in other food areas. I do not say that lightly because in the next 20 years the volume of dairy output here will probably double but we are talking about the potential for farming, aquaculture and developing new industries around new species such as boarfish. Three years ago no one had heard of boarfish. Two years ago there was no quota for boarfish. We now have a quota of 88,000 tonnes.

Mr. Cecil Beamish

Two thirds of the 88,000 tonnes.

Ireland has two thirds of the 88,000 tonnes. I want to be accurate in that regard. Boarfish were primarily a waste fish to be discarded. They then became a fish that was suitable for fish meal and now they have the potential for human consumption. Whether it is new wild fish species or dramatically developing our potential in an area like salmon farming, for example, there is growth. One farm alone will more than double the salmon output from Ireland. Scotland currently produces 150,000 tonnes of farmed salmon. Norway, which we have quoted frequently this morning, is up to well over 1 million tonnes of farmed salmon each year. We are at 12,000 tonnes. That is an indication of the potential for growth here. We could increase our salmon industry in volume terms ten-fold in the next five to seven years, never mind the next 20 years.

This is about harnessing potential in a sustainable and proper way that is consistent with EU directives and that protects the environment while at the same time fulfils the commercial potential. It is important to say that because people do not speak ambitiously enough about the seafood sector. They often talk about the frustrations we experience in terms of quotas and the amount of fish being caught in the waters around Ireland by foreign fleets, which frustrates people, but there is huge potential for growth as well. It is about realising that, and that is my aspiration.

On the Chairman's questions, we have tried to get this document out to as many people as possible. I spoke on it at a number of marine and maritime seminars including one in Howth and one in Cork. The Marine Institute is trying to get this document out to as many people as it can, as is the National Maritime College in Cork. The Naval Service, for example, is putting together a significant contribution to it. The sea fisheries bodies are aware of its existence. I would like to have had a year of consultation and perhaps eight months to put the measure together. However, to follow up on Deputy Ó Cuív's point at the start of the meeting, we do not have time for that. Ireland needs big good news stories at present to inspire confidence, encourage people and effect a stimulus. We have a resource that can provide that. I am very anxious to make progress quickly. Three months have been allocated for consultation. When they have elapsed, we will give our team another two to three months to put the package together. We will launch it in mid-summer around the time of the Volvo Ocean Race and the tall ships race. This will be a sensible time to launch it. That is the plan. I look forward to the committee's contribution, provided it has time to make one.

Regarding marine tourism and inland waterways, is there any linking up with the Assembly in the Six Counties in order to have an all-Ireland perspective?

The straight answer is that there probably is not. Perhaps we need to think about that. I have a very good relationship with my counterpart in the Northern Ireland Executive. I have been in the North speaking to farming bodies and have interacted considerably with my counterpart on fisheries, particularly in December. I am interested in reading Deputy Ferris's views on this matter if he puts them on paper. His point is a fair one.

When marketing Ireland as a food producer, we talk about the food island. An Bord Bia has a remit to promote food coming from Northern Ireland in addition to that from south of the Border. I need to think about how best we can deal with the matter. I would certainly like to be able to respond positively. I am sceptical as to whether we have time to seek a full submission from the Assembly on the matter. I would like to try to factor in some of its views.

Waterways Ireland has an all-Ireland remit and some information could possibly be channelled through it.

There has been a good airing. The Minister, Deputy Ferris and I will remember that, during the term of the last Dáil, one of the first steps the climate change committee took was to visit the Marine Institute. One of the first jobs it did was to put up the map. With a view to changing mindsets, as referred to by the Minister, we suggested at the time that a copy of the map should be in every classroom in every school and on the website to demonstrate the territory Ireland governs. We heard yesterday that Norway has a ratio of 7:1 and that it considers itself to have one of the wealthiest ocean resources, not only in Europe but in the world. Ireland is the same in many ways.

Placing the strategy in the public domain helps to change the mindset and focus. That growth in this sector could eclipse that in every other category of the agriculture sector clearly indicates the potential that exists. The breakdown into the three areas - manufacturing, resources and business - demonstrates the potential and what we have not estimated heretofore. The marine natural resource must be managed sustainably.

Given that the Minister is stating we can make a submission as soon as possible after the deadline - we will endeavour to do this - we will discuss at our meeting next Tuesday how best to make progress working from the ten-question template, bearing in mind the suggestion of Deputies Phelan and Ferris to have co-operation with the North on inland waterways.

Salmon farming in Ireland will become a big commercial story. I really want to try to bring everybody with us in that regard. Members of this committee have a big role to play in allaying people's fears. It would be very useful for members to invite to the committee representatives of BIM, the current applicant. The representatives should give a detailed outline of all the issues, how the current position has come about and what BIM has done to address potential concerns. The representatives should be given a good grilling so the committee will be satisfied it has answers to all potential questions that may arise in counties such as Kerry, Galway, Donegal and Mayo. There is one application at present but there could be from three to five on the same scale over the next two years. It is, therefore, important that everybody be very clear.

That can be replicated, be it in respect of wind energy and foreshore licences, wave energy products or-----

There is a specific concern about lice pollution in salmon fisheries. There are answers to the questions and I would like members to hear them. Rather than hearing political spin from me, the members should ask the scientists who will probably be involved.

Has the Department had objections from any of the fishing communities on the Galway coast?

If BIM representatives are to make a submission here and to be cross-examined, the objectors could be invited on the same day.

One of the successes is that there have not yet been any objections. I am sure there will be some because every development of this scale attracts objections. We are really talking about something very similar to what already exists off Clare Island in Mayo, namely, a salmon farm that produces 4,000 tonnes per year. What is proposed is a little bigger and would have slightly more modern infrastructure. I understand the inhabitants of Clare Ireland are very supportive of the farm there. The commercial opportunity the proposed development presents for people on the Aran Islands and in ports such as Ros an Mhíl is very significant.

I do not believe there will be objections such as those made four or five years ago with the ban on the drift netting of salmon. In order to preserve wild salmon stocks, we need to be well acquainted with the pitfalls associated with the project.

I have heard the BIM presentation a number of times and considered it really interesting.

I thank the Minister. We decided in private session to invite the Minister and his officials before us, mainly to brief us again on the CAP and EU regulations, perhaps after Easter. We plan to have a submission in by the end of May. We look forward to the next meeting.

I thank the members and the officials.

The joint committee went into private session at 12.28 p.m. and adjourned at 12.30 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 27 March 2012.
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