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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Wednesday, 18 Oct 2006

EU Council Agenda: Ministerial Presentation.

Our quarterly briefings from the Minister serve as important updates for the joint committee on EU matters. They are an important part of the EU scrutiny process to enhance the role of the Oireachtas in the EU legislative process. I welcome the Minister and his officials and thank him for his continuing engagement with the committee in advance of the quarterly meetings of the EU Council of Environment Ministers. His briefings are an integral part of the committee's annual work programme. It thanks him for the time given by him and his officials to attend this meeting.

We took note of the Minister's recommendations at our last meeting and endeavoured to familiarise ourselves with some of the issues raised such as the EPA technologies programme and the national parks and wildlife service. More recently, we scrutinised a proposal for EU legislation, COM (2006) 16, which proposed to assess and manage floods, an issue the Minister discussed with us at his briefing before the June Council meeting. He will recall discussing the aim of that proposal and how Ireland welcomed it and actively participated in its development. If he has any further recommendations or updates for us, we would welcome them.

I propose that following the Minister's presentation there should be a question and answer session. Our time is limited, as we must conclude by 11.30 a.m.

I thank the joint committee for taking up the offer to have a look at the national parks and wildlife service which is one of those gems that does not receive enough publicity, particularly for its work on national parks. It does extraordinary work and I was delighted the committee visited Killarney. It is the jewel in the crown of the service.

With regard to the floods issue, my colleague with responsibility for the Office of Public Works yesterday initiated the website providing flood information. It gives those buying property the type of information they need, as well as general guidance on flooding and living in flood areas, something my departmental colleague would have valued a number of years ago. When people are moving into an area, they do not necessarily know its history. The website is a good development from a consumer protection point of view.

I communicated with the committee on a number of other issues and enjoy my engagement with it. It is valuable and helps us to prepare for Council meetings. As the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has a wide remit, engaging with people from across the political spectrum in the Oireachtas on some issues is a win-win situation. I was particularly impressed at the last meeting by some comments made by one of the Opposition spokespersons: I believe it was Deputy O'Dowd but I am not certain. When we were discussing the voting register and the project currently under way, he mentioned that it would be a good idea for the committee to give some consideration to it. I would be delighted if it could devote some time to it.

The work on compiling material finished on 11 October. Bringing the material to the councils to prepare the register which will be published on 1 November is under way. A new website to check the register will be operational from 2 November. I would welcome the input of this committee. As practising politicians, we have a real stake in this and could bring some expertise to bear on the exercise. If you wish, Chairman, I will have my office contact yours with a view to holding a specific meeting on the subject. I am anxious that the key period between 2 and 25 November be used by people from all political sides to ensure the register is proofread and that any additions which should be made are made.

I am speaking at length on this issue but it is a hobby-horse of mine. There were several hundred thousand errors in the register. Those errors will now be corrected. Several hundred thousand people who should have been on the register were not on it. They will be put on it. There will inevitably be errors in that process and it would be good if all parties took possession of this issue. It is not an issue just for Government but for every Member of the Oireachtas. A related issue has arisen in recent days regarding the Trinity College register and the electoral register for universities. It will be discussed later this week with the all-party committee on the Seanad and is a matter on which the committee should have a view.

I would welcome a meeting with the committee on these two issues. If we listen and implement the combined wisdom of all sides of the Houses, we will produce the best register ever. I am prepared to listen.

We cannot have a discussion on the register of electors now.

Perhaps the Minister is not aware of the fact that some people who have been on the register for up to 50 years have been removed from it. In some parts of the country at least 20% of the people have been removed from the register. They have been issued with a letter stating that if they want their names put back on it, they must contact their local authority. They are aggrieved about this. The enumerators called during working hours but many of the people concerned commute from places such as Longford and Westmeath to work in Dublin. They are away from their homes for up to 12 hours each day. They believe they should not have to undertake the unnecessary task of reinstating their names on the register. This is causing much anger and frustration. Is there any way to address this problem?

This is the type of issue we should discuss. Every house was called on three times before a notice was issued. People received a notice and an application form to complete. We have a problem with the register. It has not been systematically edited for well over a decade. The names of thousands of dead people were still included on the register and tens of thousands of people had moved home but their details had not been changed. If we care about democracy, we must ensure that the register is updated because it is the first step to full and democratic elections. Great efforts were made to update the register and 1,500 enumerators were employed for this purpose and €10 million was spent on the project. Where people were not available to verify their details on the register, notices were left for them by the enumerators. People should not feel resentful that such notices were left for them. It is part of every citizen's responsibility to ensure that the register is not fraudulent. Everyone was concerned about press reports in that regard earlier in the year.

Matters of this nature must be discussed before the committee and I would be delighted to do so. I am prepared to listen to anyone. I received one or two good suggestions and these have already been taken on board. For example, the names of people who have died are now automatically crossed off the register. The latter should have always been the practice. As already stated, I am prepared to listen because if we pool our resources, we will have the best register in the history of the State.

I have indicated on many occasions that my ambition is to see the establishment of an electoral commission. However, the first thing we must do is ensure that we would be in a position to provide it with a proper register. We could not give to such a commission the mess that previously passed for a register. Every politician is aware that the register was a disaster and those who canvassed during the last election know that the names of hundreds of people should have been on the register and that those of hundreds more should not have been included on it. The committee should discuss this matter and I would welcome such a debate.

Why is it necessary for middle aged or elderly people to be asked to provide their date of birth? Some individuals take exception to being obliged to do so.

We are entering into greater detail on this matter than I had envisaged. Part of proving one's identity is the provision of one's date of birth. This is required on the registration form. We are creating a fresh register. There was anger on all sides of the House when it emerged earlier in the year that the electoral register contained hundreds of thousands of errors. One item of academic research indicated that there were 800,000 errors on the register. No politician who cares about democracy could be satisfied with that and we have taken action to correct the position. If one makes corrections that will inevitably impact on hundreds of thousands of cases, one will be obliged to ask people questions, including some relating to their date of birth.

Allegations and assertions were made in the House that efforts had been made to fraudulently include people on the register. To establish people's identities, it is important that certain questions be asked. This is a matter of major importance and I would be willing to listen to any advice or views members of the committee wish to offer. I apologise to the Chairman for commenting at length on this matter.

We must move to the Minister's presentation on the EU Environmental Council meeting.

I thank the Chairman and members for the invitation to come before the committee. I value these sessions because they provide me with the opportunity to outline my brief.

This will be the first formal Environment Council of the Finnish Presidency. I already attended an informal meeting that the Finns hosted in Turku in July. The main theme for that meeting was "Going global on eco-efficiency — towards a new generation of environment policy". We had a good and wide-ranging discussion at that meeting regarding the general topic of the global nature of eco-efficiency and the challenges of dealing with environmental impacts and energy issues.

We also had the opportunity to hear about the challenges of managing the Baltic Sea environment and to engage on issues of common concern in respect of the marine environment. I was somewhat amused by the European Environment Agency's rather negative comments about some aspects of Irish coastal waters. As the Chairman is aware, I am a swimmer and I decided to swim in the Baltic Sea. However, there was no bathing place within miles of where we were staying and certainly not one that a person would, in his or her right mind, enter. This goes to show that our problems are as nothing to those which exist elsewhere.

There are five substantive items on the Council agenda for next week's meeting, namely, air quality, climate change, the sustainable use of natural resources, the shipment of waste and the marine environment. The Presidency hopes to reach political agreement on the new air quality directive. This is a key element of the thematic strategy on air pollution which the committee discussed with my officials earlier this year. We have discussed it on a number of occasions at the Council, most recently in June under the Austrian Presidency. The Austrian President of the Council had originally been hoping to achieve political agreement on the directive at that meeting but this could not be done because of the timing of discussions in the European Parliament. However, I believe progress will be made on this issue.

Ambient air quality in Ireland is very good, among the best in Europe, but our lifestyles are creating pressures on all aspects of the environment, including air quality. Similar pressures are being experienced across the EU. Despite major improvements in air quality, significant negative impacts on human health and the environment will persist, even with effective implementation of current legislation. In order to address the situation and deal with this problem, the European Commission has identified specific objectives, based on a medium-term perspective to 2020. The current proposal addresses fine particulate matter, PM2.5, for the first time. The case for further measures to control particulate emissions is beyond question and the proposal is welcome. The measures proposed will enable real progress to be made in this area, building on existing legislative provisions for coarser particulate matter, PM10. Compliance with the proposed 2015 limit value will require a significant upgrading of the national monitoring regime operated by the Environmental Protection Agency.

Within the Council, there is a substantial level of agreement on the proposal. There is only one outstanding issue on the part of the Netherlands. I expect that issue to be resolved and that the Presidency will facilitate the reaching of political agreement at the next meeting. Ultimate agreement is, of course, a matter for co-decision with the Parliament. From its first reading, I understand that the Parliament will put forward a significant number of amendments and it is likely, therefore, that it will be some time before the directive is adopted. I will be encouraging my Council colleagues to press for the proposal to be progressed as quickly as possible. Ireland is in good order regarding meeting the requirements in the directive.

In the run up to the 12th conference of the parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change and the second meeting of the parties to the Kyoto Protocol in Nairobi in November, it will come as no surprise to the committee that climate change is again on the agenda. The Council will consider draft conclusions for the Nairobi meetings. Essentially, these provide a negotiating mandate for the EU delegation. I have not yet received the final text of the draft conclusions and it is impossible, therefore, to state what will be the wording.

From the discussions at official level, however, I can inform members that they will give a clear and strong message to the participants, regardless of whether they are parties to the Kyoto Protocol, on the EU's objectives for the meeting and its expectation in terms of outcomes. This message will be underpinned by the fundamental Union position that overall global mean surface temperature must not exceed 2° Celsius above pre-industrial levels. That is absolutely essential if the ultimate objective of stabilising global greenhouse gas emissions at a level that would prevent dangerous interference with the climate system is to be achieved.

In terms of specifics, the Union wishes to see a determined effort to address issues for developing countries. This is the first meeting of the parties to the Kyoto Protocol in sub-Saharan Africa and it is both urgent and appropriate to make progress on these issues. For example, we must advance the entire adaptation agenda, as well as technology transfer and further development of the clean development mechanism, CDM. Many people seem to miss the point that this mechanism establishes a multilateral framework for joint, project-based implementation between industrialised and developing countries. It operates for the benefit of both sides, and is hugely important for developing countries in terms of financial and technical resource transfers. Investment in CDM projects is a valid option under the Kyoto Protocol. It is not, as some people suggest, an easy alternative for industrialised countries, nor is it a form of fine or penalty. The CDM is a sensible approach to dealing, on the one hand, with the challenges faced by developing countries and, on the other, those faced by the developed world.

The other major issue is future action and the importance of progressing on the agenda agreed in last year's Montreal plan of action. On foot of the plan, two separate rounds of discussion are under way; one under the convention and the second under the protocol. Progress on both is essential in terms of the scope of a future agreement and the timeframe for the negotiations. A key objective will be to avoid a gap when the Kyoto Protocol commitment period ends in 2012. In other words, it will extend beyond the timeframe of the Kyoto Protocol.

In summary, the objective of the European Community and its member states will be to reach agreement on agenda items that are mature and ready for decision and to encourage and facilitate maximum progress in the ongoing discussions on future actions. The Community will also engage constructively on the question of the review of the Kyoto Protocol as required under Article 9.

The agenda for the Nairobi meetings of the parties to the protocol is full and demanding and I expect EU member states and many of the parties to both the convention and the protocol will attend. I propose to attend the high-level ministerial segment of the meeting as it is important that Ministers should so do.

I greatly welcome an initiative by the Presidency to invite the newly appointed executive secretary to the convention, Mr. de Boer, to join the Council for lunch. His views on the state of play regarding the international agenda will be both interesting and useful in the final preparations for the Nairobi meetings. He was present at previous meetings, in particular, the one at Montreal.

The Council will adopt conclusions on the thematic strategy on the sustainable use of natural resources. This strategy takes a long-term view to 2025. It is another of the seven strategies delivered under the sixth environmental action programme. Legislative initiatives will not arise from this strategy as the discussion will focus on supporting the sustainable development strategy in general. It is also strongly linked to the subject of sustainable consumption and production. The conclusions proposed by the Presidency for adoption include an outline of what might be included in the EU action plan on sustainable consumption and production. I will support the conclusions prepared by the Presidency. These conclusions invite the Commission and member states to outline the ecological dimension of the renewed EU sustainable development strategy, develop indicators, establish a data centre and set targets by 2010.

We will have a policy debate on the thematic strategy on the protection and conservation of the marine environment and the related proposed framework directive. Ministers will be asked for comment with regard to the definition of and the proposed timetable for achieving good environmental status. This is a key concept pertaining to the main objective of the proposed directive. Ireland wishes to see greater clarification of the term, "good environmental status". It is important that clarity be achieved. Guidance will also be sought on how best to articulate national measures with measures requiring regional co-operation, taking into account, inter alia, the role of regional conventions for the protection of the marine environment, as well as the role of third countries.

The eighth conference of the parties to the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their disposal will take place in Nairobi at the end of November. We will adopt conclusions at the Council to provide broad political guidance for the EU in negotiations at that meeting. The draft conclusions provide for a strong political message to be given in the light of the recent Ivory Coast tragedy. They also provide for political messages to be delivered at the meeting to the secretariat of the convention on matters including ship dismantling, co-operation between different multilateral environment agreements and resource use and mobilisation.

The Commission has stressed that the convention has automatic effect in all member states, including Ireland, as a consequence of the application of the EU waste shipment regulation, which is why a number of member states have not found it necessary to ratify it to date. However, it is important that sufficient countries should ratify the convention to ensure the ban has effect outside the EU and the Commissioner for the Environment, Mr. Dimas, will ask those member states that have not ratified to do so, purely for this reason. Ireland will start the ratification process immediately to bring the convention into operation. At the Council meeting, I will support the conclusions as drafted and will express Ireland's profound regret and sympathy with the victims of the Ivory Coast tragedy.

In respect of Irish ports, I will take the opportunity at the Council to tell fellow Ministers about the very encouraging results from a programme of inspections in Dublin. Ireland chairs a steering committee of the European Union network for the implementation and enforcement of environmental law, IMPEL, on the transfrontier shipment of wastes. When Dublin City Council started inspections during an IMPEL sea port project, the same negative results were produced as elsewhere in Europe, whereby up to 60% of shipments were found to be technically illegal and up to 40% showed other deficiencies in paperwork. One year later, thanks to a very hands-on approach and much raising of awareness among the shippers and brokers, the story was quite different. A commendable 100% compliance rate was achieved when the same inspections were repeated for the IMPEL project. We can take quiet satisfaction from this development.

At the Council meeting, I will urge greater participation in IMPEL projects on the transfrontier shipment of wastes. I will urge the Commission to do what it can to facilitate these projects in order that such efforts will continue and grow.

The last segment of the Council meeting will consider other business and four items are listed. The Presidency and the Commission will report on a number of meetings held in recent weeks with third countries. These include meetings with representatives from Russia, Korea, China and India. All such meetings are well reported on the Finnish Presidency website. At the request of the Hungarian delegation, Ministers will hear a report on the First European Congress of Conservation Biology that was held in Hungary at the end of August. At the request of the Danish delegation, a ban on mercury exports from the EU will be mentioned. The Spanish delegation has requested mention of forest fires in Spain during the summer. However, I have not yet received papers on these two items.

This is an outline of the Council agenda for 23 October. I again thank the Chairman for the invitation to share this information with the joint committee.

I thank the Minister. He faces a comprehensive meeting on 23 October and the members wish him well. Are there any questions on the Minister's presentation?

In respect of the shipment of waste around the world, members have been repeatedly told that radioactive waste is shipped through our waterways. Has the Minister any idea of the amounts involved, or the number of ships that are in circulation? How often are such ships inspected? This is important because of the shipments of waste, including nuclear waste, that are transported from France and the United Kingdom to China. Members should be updated regarding this issue and both the quality of the containers used and the shipments from Europe to Asia and elsewhere should be monitored.

While the issue of nuclear waste does not form part of the IMPEL document, this is a fair observation. As the Senator is aware, we have an arrangement whereby the United Kingdom authorities provide us with advance notice of movements through the Irish Sea on the basis of a Government to Government agreement. In particular, this relates to shipments in and out of Sellafield. For fairly obvious reasons, the information is provided on the basis that it will not be published in advance, as the shipment of waste has a certain security element attached to it. However, we are notified by the British on a Government to Government basis.

In the past, they have been slow to notify the Government about leaks at the Sellafield nuclear plant. Can we trust them to provide us with updates of correct information in this regard?

If the Senator is asking me whether I trust British Nuclear Fuels, I am obliged to answer in the negative. I do not believe that agency has ever covered itself in glory. However, we have established a good reporting relationship with the British Government, in which, among other things, we have on-line live access to its autonomous system of monitoring, namely, the radioactive incident monitoring network, RIMNET.

As to whether we should be sanguine about the issue, one should consider that during an eight month period, 83,400 litres of a deadly liquor were allowed to spill into a containment tank in the relatively recently built THORP plant in Sellafield. Although British Nuclear Fuels knew about this leak it did nothing. It assumed that the problem could not lie in the plant's engineering and that consequently, its calculations must have been incorrect. However, the problem did lie in the plant's engineering. Hence, one cannot have confidence in such an agency.

This is the reason the Government has taken the most extraordinary action of taking a fellow EU member state to an international tribunal to make it aware of our concerns. Yesterday, I welcomed the recent decision in Carlisle Crown Court which recognised that a criminal event had taken place by fining British Nuclear Fuels £500,000, if memory serves correctly, as well as £68,000 in damages. This is a drop in the ocean compared with the funds available to British Nuclear Fuels, but it was important. It came in the wake of another fine imposed by the relevant agency in the UK and was a public recognition of the criminal negligence of that company.

I do not have confidence in British Nuclear Fuels, but I do believe that the British Government is fully aware of our concerns and has acted properly in its responses to us. The response we all seek is the full closure of the THORP facility without new contracts being written or its life extended. We understand that it cannot be closed overnight and that a long period may be necessary to achieve this.

There is a notification process in place and the IMPEL relates to hazardous waste but not specifically nuclear waste. This raises the tragic case of the Ivory Coast where hazardous waste was taken ashore leading to deaths and also suffering for many thousands.

I thank the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for a comprehensive report. How close is agreement on the air quality directive? The Minister suggested in his speech that compliance with this directive would put extra pressure on the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA. Will that agency's resources be improved to cope with this?

The short answer is "Yes". We have good air monitoring in place, although it could be improved. I was impressed recently on a visit to Cork, and subsequently when the EPA came to Bray, by seeing the mobile monitoring units in operation. It seemed well organised and academics on the subject in Cork, where it was on the University College Cork campus, were very impressed.

I think that the text by the Presidency will be agreed. However, because of the co-decision process, it must now go back to the European Parliament where questions may be raised. I am confident that the difficulties felt by the Dutch Government will be overcome, although the problem faced by the Netherlands is one of very high traffic movement. There is a high proportion of diesel in the Dutch system and their difficulties relate not so much to PM10 but to PM2.5, the finer particulate matter. I am confident because I have a good working relationship with the Dutch minister and we will work hard.

We will need to make further investment in monitoring equipment to prepare, not only for 2010, but also for 2015. Irish air quality is recognised as being among the very best, which is borne out by the most recent report, although this does not mean we should rest on our laurels. The EPA released an ambient air quality report in this regard in 2005. Further investment will be required to improve monitoring and deal with smaller particulate matter.

That concludes our questioning of the Minister and we wish him well at the Council meeting. We can move on to the next item without taking a break.

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