JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN SCRUTINY debate -
Tuesday, 11 May 2010

School Visits: Discussion with European Commission

Chairman

I welcome Mr. Martin Territt, director, European Commission Representation in Ireland, and Ms Joan Flanagan, education officer, European Commission Representation in Ireland.

Before we begin, I draw the attention of delegates to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside of the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Mr. Martin Territt to make his presentation.

Mr. Martin Territt

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for the invitation to address the committee today on group visits by primary and post-primary schools to the European Commission Representation in Ireland. I look forward to a constructive exchange of views with members of the committee.

I shall set out what we do in terms of school visits and some other aspects of our educational activities, following which I will be happy to answer questions or participate in a discussion with members.

The European Commission Representation in Ireland regularly hosts visits from primary and post-primary schools. As part of our outreach programme, we have, and always have had, an open-door policy towards schools. The process for booking involves a simple telephone call or e-mail on behalf of the school, to book the date, time and numbers of students visiting from that group. In the representation we have capacity for more than 100 students at any one time, though most groups come in classes of approximately 30 students. In 2009, we were host to more than 1,700 students from primary and secondary level schools to the representation.

Visiting groups are facilitated by our education officer, Ms Joan Flanagan, and an information officer. A typical school visit lasts approximately an hour and focuses on three key messages — the role of the representation and the Commission generally, a short history and overview of the main institutions of the Union and the benefits to Ireland of Union membership. This information is communicated by way of an oral presentation, usually by the education officer, followed by a DVD presentation entitled Ireland and the European Union, and a short quiz, after which token prizes are given to the winning team. This format was designed following consultation with primary and secondary teachers as to what best fitted their student pedagogical needs. Once the visit is finished, teachers are encouraged to fill out a short questionnaire about the visit so that we can accurately measure our delivery against stakeholder expectations and needs. On our website we have much information about the positive feedback we have received from teachers. We have a high repeat rate of visits from schools, estimated at about 90%. I would like over time and in co-operation with members of the Oireachtas to extend the reach towards many more schools in the future.

I draw attention to the fact that we are officially launching tomorrow, 12 May 2010, the latest edition of our educational DVD in the representation at 2 p.m. I am pleased the Tanáiste and Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Mary Coughlan, will officiate. I have issued invitations to all members of both joint committees on European affairs and I hope some members can attend.

We promote the facilities we provide for school visits through our own publications, website, newsletters, and varying teaching journals nationwide. In May 2009, I wrote to all members of the Oireachtas to highlight the education services provided by the representation, with particular reference to the school visits service and its proximity to Leinster House. Our experience is that many schools combine a visit to Leinister House and the representation on one trip.

The objective of school visits is to enable the representation to act as a resource not just for students but for primary and post primary educators. The office of the European Commission Representation and the European Parliament information office are the tangible face of the European Union in Ireland. There is very good co-operation between the representation and the Parliament office. For many students and teachers when they enter European Union House, it is the first direct experience they will have had with the European Union and, therefore, we place special emphasis on school visits.

School visits are, however, only one component of our education outreach programme. The initiatives include the following. We arrange annual information visits to the EU institutions in Brussels for teachers. This year, a visit for CSPE teachers will take place in June. A training course for primary teachers is provisionally scheduled to take place in the representation in July. The European Parliament office also organises many visits for teachers and students, as part of its Euroscola programme to the Parliament in Strasbourg and in Brussels, on occasion. We arrange an annual model council of the European Union debate for senior-cycle students. The debate mirrors the format of a real Council meeting, with each school representing a different member state, an EU institution or an interest group and debating a mock proposal for an EU directive. I am pleased that Deputy Ruairí Quinn has, for a number of years, acted as chairman for that initiative.

In addition, we run and promote competitions for schools in a variety of formats. For example, earlier this year, we ran an essay competition for schools inviting entrants to write on "What is this European Union thingy doing for me?" More than 400 entries were received. We promote EU-wide competitions organised centrally in Brussels, including a very successful annual poster design competition organised by the Commission's Directorate-General for Justice, Freedom and Security. This year the competition was on the rights of the child.

Sunday, 9 May 2010, the 60th anniversary of the Schuman Declaration, paved the way for the foundation of the European Union. To mark this occasion we invited ambassadors of the member states in Ireland to visit an Irish secondary school in or around 9 May to speak to students about European citizenship. Approximately ten embassadors or senior diplomats have already visited schools in the past week alone. It is important to involve the member states' representatives in this country with the educational system. As part of our staff as ambassadors initiative, we send officials back to schools. We ran this in Ireland last September and a total of 87 officials from the Commission, the Parliament and the Council took part. They visited 101 schools in 24 counties. These included some senior officials such as Ms Catherine Day, Secretary General, and the director general for trade, Mr. David O'Sullivan. We had positive feedback and plan to repeat the exercise again in October 2010. Over the past three months, the representation, in conjunction with Junior Achievement Ireland, has organised an outreach programme in schools. The EU factfest consists of a number of workshops in schools across the country to raise awareness of the European Union through interactive games and quizzes. Eight schools have participated so far, three in Dublin and one each in Nenagh, Loughrea, Celbridge, Athenry and Leixlip. We hope to continue the initiative over the coming months.

In February, we renewed contact with all Irish universities that run degree courses in European studies or European integration to offer a guest lecture by senior staff from the representation. To date, my colleagues have given lectures in the University of Limerick and NUI Maynooth. I intend to strengthen our links with the third level sector, including with institutes of technology, which have their genesis through European funding as regional technical colleges. The representation stocks a wide range of educational resources available free of charge to teachers, members of the public and students. These can be accessed on our website, www.euireland.ie/education.

Regarding the syllabus, the topic of European studies does not exist as a stand alone subject at either primary or post-primary level. The EU is featured in two modules in the primary history curriculum, on the lives of people in the past and national and international history. At post-primary level, the European Union is featured in junior cycle within civic, social and political education, CSPE, in transition year as part of civic, social and political studies and at senior cycle as an element of the leaving certificate history, home economics and business syllabi.

I welcome the recent publication of the report on the consultation process on the new leaving certificate subject, politics and society. I hope the introduction of this subject in the senior cycle will lead to an improved understanding of the European dimension of active citizenship.

I draw the committee's attention to a significant partnership development between the Commission, the European Parliament and the Irish Government embodied in a memorandum of understanding on communicating through partnership agreed in January 2009. The objective is to strengthen long-term co-ordination and partnership between the European institutions and the Irish authorities to promote a better understanding of the European Union. The memorandum allows for a joint communication action plan to be drawn up annually over a three-year period. It seeks to promote the objectives of encouraging education initiatives throughout the country by integrating these objectives within Irish educational curricula at all levels through schools competitions, briefings and lectures, preparation and distribution of educational and training material, public debate, interactive websites and public awareness and participation in important commemorative events such as the annual Europe day ceremonies throughout the country.

The Irish authorities, the Commission and the Parliament agree on the need for more emphasis on Europe in schools. This is very much in line with the conclusions of the Oireachtas Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union, the report of which states on page 6: "Further emphasis should be placed on making students familiar with the European Union and the importance of Ireland's membership".

I am pleased that, arising from this partnership approach, the Department of Education and Science is promoting greater use in the CSPE syllabus of the teacher's resource developed by the representation entitled "A Journey through Europe". Our objective is to have this resource used throughout CSPE classrooms across the country over the next years. On behalf of the Commission, I would welcome strengthened co-operation between the representation and Oireachtas Members on school visits or on any other educational initiative. I would be very happy to hear suggestions for improvements from members of this committee as to how this could be achieved.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Territt for a comprehensive submission.

Senator Terry Leyden

I welcome Mr. Martin Territt and Ms Joan Flanagan. I thank Deputy Lucinda Creighton for raising this issue, which gives the representation an opportunity to highlight what it is doing. This is worthwhile because Members of the Oireachtas may not be aware that this facility exists for students. I mentioned the facility to a group visiting tomorrow but some groups cannot fit both trips in one day. The opportunity exists and it is worthwhile. Perhaps Deputy Creighton has an idea about a facility to give a European dimension to a visit to Leinster House. For example, tomorrow there is a presentation in the audiovisual room for a group from Athlone. Perhaps the delegation could consider adding a video presentation on the European Union.

It is worthwhile bringing the facility to the attention of Deputies and Senators. The European Commission representation office can take up to 100 people, which is quite a number, and must operate on the basis of first come, first served. Circulating this information to Oireachtas Members would be worthwhile. I compliment the delegation on the work it does promoting Europe in Ireland. There have been many events throughout the year. It has always been generous in incorporating Oireachtas Members. An event is taking place on Thursday night, which I look forward to attending and of which I hope other Members are aware. It is important to keep information flowing. It is great for students to know about the facilities available, the competitions and the essays. The educational side is important for teachers. It is worthwhile that teachers can go to the European Commission Representation in Ireland. I am glad this was brought to our attention because I was not aware of the facility. I thank Deputy Creighton for bringing that to our attention.

Chairman

The office provides a comprehensive service. The amount of information available today shows there is awareness of the opportunity for greater links between the office and Parliament.

Deputy Lucinda Creighton

I welcome Mr. Martin Territt and Ms Joan Flanagan and thank them for attending. I was very interested in the presentation. I am aware of the major efforts and the great amount of work invested by the European Commission representation office in trying to reach out to young people, in particular, to make them aware of the European Union and European affairs. That is a tough challenge. The delegation contacted me about comments I made in the House, over which I stand. A major challenge exists to inform and make information on European affairs available to young people. I am very critical of our education system. Arguably, the European Union is the most important factor in the lives of people in every member state yet this is not reflected in our education syllabus at primary or post-primary level. The CSPE programme is reasonably good but largely depends on the teacher involved. We need to impress upon the Government the need to radically reform the education of young people on European affairs because the lack of knowledge is startling. I appreciate that Mr. Martin Territt was very involved in both Lisbon referenda in terms of communication and education as was every member of this committee. It is alarming the number of people from third level with good degrees and deemed to be well educated, who do not know the difference between the Commission, the Parliament and the European Council. It is a huge challenge.

I would like to see a formalised link between how we deal with school trips in the House and what is happening in the European Commission and European Parliament offices. We have a bizarre system here and we need to examine it more deeply. We have an Oireachtas schools programme which means that as TDs we are invited to visit schools in our constituencies with our colleagues. It is a cross-party initiative. However, when school visits take place to the Oireachtas there is no formalised programme and no DVD. We just bring them in and sign them over to an usher who takes them on a tour of the House. We may take them for a can of coke afterwards. In terms of linking up with what is happening in the European Commission Representation in Ireland we need to formalise school visits because it depends on the Deputy or Senator involved and whether they recommend to the school that they avail of the services in the European Commission offices. If they do recommend it, as Senator Leyden said, they are often on a tight schedule and do not make it across to the European Commission offices. I suspect that more than 1,500 come through these doors annually and they are not making it over to Molesworth Street. While it is not a distance issue, it may often be a time issue.

As a member of the Sub-Committee on Ireland's Future in the European Union I made a strong recommendation for the establishment of a European affairs section in the Houses of the Oireachtas. It has happened in virtually every other parliament in Europe. It needs to happen here, although I am aware there is a resource issue. This committee needs to send the message once again that we want some form of information available for young people, school tours, and so on who visit this building. That should be enhanced by a formal link-up whereby school tours to the Oireachtas would automatically be referred to the European Commission Representation in Ireland and the facility made available to them. Perhaps we can work with the Oireachtas commission or whoever is responsible on that matter.

Chairman

I have raised that matter which has been a pet hobby horse of mine for some time with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin. There would be no difficulty putting a kiosk with information on Europe and a DVD in the reception area of Leinster House. Thousands of people visit the Houses, including students and senior citizens. I have no doubt that if representations were made to the Commission it would allow the Parliament to put in a place a simple kiosk containing information on the availability of information in the European Commission offices in Molesworth Street. There should be that formal link. It is regrettable when students visit there is so little to give them on Leinster House. In his contribution, Mr. Territt stated that the Commission has material that could be useful to students. The effort would cost nothing bar the provision of the stand. It would be stocked by the European Commission offices and would refer people to its offices. As Deputy Creighton said it would be a first step prior to a formal link. It is very disappointing that while thousands of students visit the Houses, there is no mention of Europe. Even the module provided to schools is all about Dáil Éireann and there is no mention of European integration or the benefit of Europe. I suggest a link up with the outreach service because the feedback from schools which the liaison officer visited was beneficial. A small amount of co-operation with the European office would probably help defray costs if a joint submission was made.

Senator Eugene Regan

I appreciate the presentation which highlights something we learned during the Lisbon treaty debate, namely, that an information deficit exists. Any of this type of work which informs and educates people on Europe, particularly young people, is of vital importance. In regard to Lisbon I, younger people were the most sceptical about the treaty. The work being done by the European Commission Representation in Ireland is very important. Mr. Territt highlighted the position in terms of our education curriculum and said that European studies does not feature as a stand-alone subject at either primary or post-primary level. It is probably better if it is not a stand-alone subject but is integrated into the other subject matters and subjects. If it is a single subject, students can be selective in the subjects they study. It is extraordinary, after five amendments of our basic EU treaties and all other debates and referenda and discussions that have taken place, that the EU does not feature heavily in the school curriculum.

Mr. Territt mentioned that the presentations to visiting groups would focus on the role of the representation, a short history and overview of the main EU institutions and the benefits to Ireland of EU membership. However, what is lacking is how people interact with Europe and how Ireland has played a role in Europe. It is not all take from Europe, we have had an input into the development of Europe and the development of policies and even into changes in EU treaties. That is what is missing. There are institutions out there, the question is how to connect with them. I put forward that suggestion for future reference.

Deputy Joe Costello

I welcome Mr. Territt and Ms Flanagan. I apologise for missing the presentation. Unfortunately I could not be present but I will have an opportunity to read it. I compliment the delegates on the Europe Day celebrations on Sunday last on which they did an excellent job. Hopefully, we can make the educational DVD launch tomorrow as well. The issue under discussion can be looked at from every angle, whether it is this Parliament or the country at large, in that there is a lack of awareness about all things European and that became crystal clear in the recent referenda. The $64,000 question is how to deal with that and how to make Europe more pertinent, amenable and relevant to the people of the country. If it is not being done in this House, if we do not have debates on the floor of the House and Europe is not mentioned in the House, it is not likely that too many students will be keen on attending the European Commission or Parliament because it is not something that has projected on radio or television and therefore is not likely to be very strong in the CSPE or transition year.

While the witnesses are doing a good job and providing a wide range of facilities it is still only a drop in the ocean. Only 1,500 students visit the offices per year which is a tiny number. I am sure we get about 15,000 students visiting the Houses each year. Approximately 50,000 people visit the Houses every year, a large number of whom are students. There is no doubt that if we can combine the work being done in the Commission with the work we would like to do arising out of this committee and the Joint Committee on European Affairs, by projecting a greater awareness of European issues, it would be a good day's work. Perhaps this will be the beginning of a meeting of minds on the issue. Perhaps we should look at it carefully, between the two committees, over a period to consider how best to compile an integrated programme involving a direct link between us, the parliament, the Commission and the Oireachtas and what facilities we could share and how best to promote the visits that take place here. There is also the Sub-Committee on the Review of the Role of the Oireachtas in European Affairs chaired by Deputy Creighton which is a pertinent forum for us to conduct some of the work.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I am sorry I missed most of the presentation. How does the number of visitors to the European Commission Representation in Ireland compare with the numbers of students availing of the facilities in other countries? For example, is there more of a link-in with the representation and national parliaments in other countries? In terms of the information deficit or the degree of understanding among the population, how does Ireland fare in comparison with other EU countries? I do not think we are peculiar. Given that we have had so many referenda my view is that they would have a greater understanding, albeit still probably lacking in many ways, of how the European Union works. What proposals are contemplated to enhance the outreach to students? I have seen the proposals already in place and the work done, but can it be enhanced and, if so, to what level?

Mr. Martin Territt

I thank members for their support for our work. As I alluded to in my opening remarks, I would be very happy to increase co-operation between the representation, the parliament offices and the Houses of the Oireachtas. There is an opportunity to do this, as Deputies Costello and Creighton have said. Many people come through these doors and they do not have the time or the opportunity to go 100 metres down the street. Following on from the Chairman's suggestion, I would be happy to explore with the authorities in Leinster House the possibility, as an initial step, of an information stand, kiosk or outlet, close to the location of the generalised information.

Chairman

It is good to hear that because Deputy Costello's point was for an integrated plan.

Mr. Martin Territt

Certainly I would be happy to explore that with the appropriate authorities in Leinster House to see how we can achieve it in the short term. We will also examine how we can provide our DVD and some other audio visual clips to the Oireachtas liaison education facility so that it is available for use as part of that outreach programme. I agree with members that it is a great challenge as to how people can be better informed. While people are informed and see the benefits of membership, Irish people no more than many others in other European countries have a lack of detailed information about how the institutions work, what the procedures are, and a lack of familiarity with all the processes involved. While people may have a high opinion of the benefits of membership and so on, they do not understand deeply how the whole system operates. Part of reaching out to people is trying to see what additional information they can be provided with and how they can be better informed.

Senator Regan asked how people interact with the Union and so on. Part of our DVD deals with that point. Certainly that is something I will take back from this committee and see how as part of our oral presentation we can accentuate that point. In terms of the curriculum and the education system, the Commission has virtually no role here and we are certainly not seeking that role. We have never promoted that as part of treaty changes. Nevertheless, we have a duty as an institution to inform people about what we do and, in general, about what the Union does. That is why education features as part of the agreement between us, the parliament and the Government. I am pleased the Department of Education and Skills has taken up the challenge of promoting the material we have produced for the CSPE module and will examine how it can be rolled out. Already through the European studies organisation, which is partly funded by the Department, that module is in more than 80 schools and the Department of Education and Skills has prepared a draft guide for teachers as part of our co-operation in rolling out this module over the next couple of years.

I would be happy to participate in any initiative, either of this committee or, more generally, in the Houses of the Oireachtas on how we could have closer co-operation and how it could be part of a more integrated programme. I can say that on behalf of the Parliament office as well.

Chairman

Clearly, as Senator Regan said, the democratic deficit is immense. As Deputy Costello said 15,000 students visit the Houses of the Oireachtas while only 1,500 visit the offices in Molesworth Street which do an outstanding job. That is a missed opportunity. Only 20% of members would be fully aware of the huge benefits of the Commission, the Parliament and the services available at the Molesworth Street offices. While I have been a member for 13 years I regret I have not fully utilised the services there. DVDs are being launched at present. Given that many members have their own websites, is there any way in which a clip could be downloaded to their websites, promoting the benefits of the Commission, parliament and the level of participation by schools, from the point of view of teachers visiting Brussels and the schools? Ms Mary Killoran from Ballymote, County Sligo, who worked in the office frequently took schools from the region to visit the Parliament which was a fantastic trip. Is there any possibility of preparing a flyer to promote the services of the Commission and the Parliament that could be given to parliamentarians and Senators and which they could dispatch to schools?

This committee would be prepared to work with Mr. Territt on the integration of the Commission Representation and the provision of the service. Deputy Costello raised the issue of the information flow. While the Commission Representation office is only 100 metres down the street, regrettably when schools visit the Houses a visit to the Commission Representation office is not on the radar. A great deal could be done in this area if, for instance, miniature European flags were distributed here, and people were educated about the work of the Commission, the Parliament and their different roles. What timescale is envisaged for this work?

Mr. Martin Territt

In terms of the information stand or kiosk, subject to discussion with the authorities here, I could see that happening within a matter of three or four weeks.

Chairman

Deputy Costello raised this point. I second his recommendation that during the term of this Parliament we happily work with Mr. Territt who has a scrutiny role. There is a huge issue in terms of scrutiny about the lack of information even on the structure of the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny which deals with European affairs. In light of the Lisbon treaty, the Sub-Committee on the Review of the Role of the Oireachtas in European Affairs chaired by Deputy Lucinda Creighton is examining the enhanced role of the Parliament. Mr. Territt's role is even more important in integrating the Parliament into his role. If this could be done on a pilot basis, given the bureaucratic difficulties, we would be happy to initiate the scheme jointly with Mr. Territt to allow for a flow of information, DVDs and so on to visitors. Information could also be provided for Deputies and Senators on the opportunities that prevail. Many groups including students and retired people visit the Parliament. An information pack from the Commission and the parliament should be available to everybody visiting Leinster House. In this way they would get information on Europe. At present visitors to Leinster House do not get information on Europe.

Deputy Joe Costello

We could pursue that co-operative integrated approach between the two bodies with a view to maximising co-operation for the benefit of both to create greater awareness and bring more people into the system who would not otherwise visit. We could work together to see how best it can be done.

Chairman

I suggest we proceed jointly on a pilot basis.

Deputy Joe Costello

We could take this just as a starting point.

Chairman

Does Ms Flanagan visit schools?

Ms Joan Flanagan

I visit schools from time to time but mostly they come to us. They enjoy the visit service we provide. As Mr. Territt said, we have started to ask for feedback. In general the feedback is extremely positive. Often a visit to an institution reinforces what students have learned in the classroom and makes it more real. Our DVD, which is an updated version of the earlier one, has gone down very well because it is fresh and lively. We have tried to target a young audience. Obviously we need to increase the numbers of students coming through the doors.

Chairman

Is it possible to get a snippet from the DVD that could be downloaded to sites or associated link sites that could be given to Oireachtas members, whereby an Oireachtas member's site would have an associated link site? Those links are critically important. My site does not have the associated European links — the Commission, the Parliament and the local offices. Such a link would be beneficial.

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

I apologise for being late, I had another meeting. I thank Mr. Territt and Ms Flanagan for the presentation. Have the delegates ever considered encouraging young people to get involved in competitions similar to the young scientist competition, where following a visit they might come up with some idea. For example, the Department of Foreign Affairs has a special award for some device that would help in developing countries; a cooking instrument such as a pressure cooker was one. Has the European Commission ever considered that type of idea? It would be a good connection with young people and schools if the Commission was to recognise some new idea in the whole area of European co-operation or European integration.

Chairman

Innovation is very important.

Mr. Martin Territt

For the past five years we have had a stand at the young scientist exhibition. This year, a previous winner of the young scientist competition, Dr. Stephen Langrell attended. He now works with the joint research centre of the European Commission. He gave a number of lectures and gave an extensive interview in The Irish Times about his positive experience of having won the competition and gone on to greater things working with the joint research centre of the Commission. We will certainly examine the question of an award or a prize in the scientific innovation area and see how that can be brought forward.

Deputy Michael P. Kitt

If Mr. Territt is going ahead with it, perhaps schools could be informed in good time of a particular section for innovation and research.

Chairman

That is a good idea and would be very beneficial. The lack of innovation has been brought to my attention. I am pleased with the positive response regarding the integration of the Oireachtas. That is critically important. One is tapping into a huge medium of elected officials who have many groups visiting the House and would increase the education opportunities.

Given that 6,000 students attend the Sligo Institute of Technology and in view of the democratic deficit — no doubt there is representation in the universities — does the IT sector plan to develop a greater link with the webcast even though it is not on the total curriculum for European studies? Is there a way we can make students more aware of Europe? They are the cutting edge of the next generation of voters. They will be the decision makers and creators of innovative ideas. Can we get on the radar within the ITs?

Mr. Martin Territt

I think we can. I indicated in my presentation that we have contacted all the third level institutes which have European studies on their curricula, including Waterford IT. I intend to pursue contacts with the other ITs. Last year, Commissioner Wallström visited Athlone IT. I hope we can continue our outreach to ITs. I should say, by way of information about the new DVD that it is not just available in English but in Irish.

Chairman

Given that the ITs have very successful LCD TVs in their assembly halls, is there any way in which a generic DVD could be provided in communal areas where people could watch it. It is a facility that could be availed of in universities where students are waiting for classes. In regard to the distribution of European flags, colleges are always anxious to get them. If made available, they might use them. I am aware from visiting colleges that we are missing an opportunity with an influential group of people. In the debate on Lisbon 1 students were very cynical about the whole European question. I thank Mr. Territt and Ms Flanagan for attending as it was a very beneficial meeting. We would be delighted if they would return to update us in time.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.50 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Tuesday, 25 May 2010.