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Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach debate -
Wednesday, 10 May 2023

General Scheme of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2023: Discussion

On behalf of the committee, I welcome the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, Mr. Liam Sloyan, and the deputy ombudsman, Ms MaryRose McGovern. In this session we will undertake pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill. The usual rules in respect of privilege apply. I am not going to read through them again because I am sure everyone knows them at this stage. Certainly, members are aware of the rules, as well as how they apply in terms of the location from which members speak.

I now call on Mr. Sloyan to make his opening statement.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

My opening remarks might go a bit beyond five minutes. I hope that is all right.

We can make allowances. We are tolerant here because we are a broad church.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Thank you Chairman. I am pleased to have this opportunity, together with my colleague Ms MaryRose McGovern, deputy Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, to engage with the committee today on the general scheme of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill which was published by the Minister for Finance in April.

The Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman, FSPO, was established on 1 January 2018 under the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman Act 2017. The principal function of the FSPO is to investigate complaints made by consumers, including small businesses and other organisations, against regulated financial service providers and pension providers. Section 12 of the Act requires the investigation of complaints in an appropriate manner proportionate to the nature of the complaint, including by informal means, mediation and formal investigation, including oral hearings if required.

When consumers are unable to resolve a complaint or dispute with their provider, they can refer their complaint to the FSPO. The FSPO provides an independent, fair, impartial, confidential and free service to resolve complaints through either informal mediation, leading to a potential settlement agreed between the parties, or formal investigation and adjudication, leading to a legally binding decision, subject only to a statutory appeal to the High Court. The procedures of the FSPO greatly encourage mediation between the parties on a voluntary basis so that every effort can be made to facilitate the resolution of complaints in a way that empowers the parties themselves to design and agree a confidential solution. This is done in accordance with the provisions of section 58 of the Act which requires the ombudsman to try, as far as possible, to resolve a complaint by mediation. The FSPO’s mediation services, made available to providers and complainants, adhere to a code of ethics which is available to the public through our website.

Mediation by its very nature is a confidential process, which facilitates discussion between the parties on an off-the-record basis. Any evidence of anything said or admitted during a mediation conducted by the FSPO, under the Act, is not admissible in any subsequent formal investigation by the FSPO, or admissible in any proceedings before a court. Where these early interventions do not resolve the dispute, the FSPO formally investigates the complaint. Formal investigation is a detailed, fair and impartial process carried out in accordance with fair procedures. It involves a full gathering and exchange of evidence and submissions between the parties to the complaint, until both parties have concluded their respective observations.

I can decide to hold an oral hearing where there is a conflict of fact in the documentary evidence made available by the parties, which cannot be resolved without hearing oral evidence from those parties. Section 47(3)(b) of the 2017 Act provides that I may require any person to attend and be examined on oath. The procedures of the FSPO, in the event of an oral hearing, include cross-examination of the various witnesses’ evidence. Our oral hearing guidelines are available to the public on our website. In most instances there are either no material conflicts of fact, or any such conflicts of fact can be resolved by reference to the documentary and audio evidence. Therefore, oral hearings are held by the FSPO in a limited number of investigations, typically less than ten each year.

On completing the investigation of a financial service complaint, I issue a decision that the complaint is upheld, substantially upheld, partially upheld or rejected. Legally binding decisions are issued by the statutory office holders, or by a staff member where there is a delegation in place to do so. A financial service complaint can be found to be upheld, substantially upheld or partially upheld on one or more of the grounds set out in section 60(2) of the 2017 Act. As outlined above, decisions are legally binding, subject only to a statutory appeal to the High Court.

In April 2021, the Supreme Court held that the exercise of powers by adjudication officers pursuant to the Workplace Relations Act 2015, as amended was an administration of justice within the meaning of Article 37 of the Constitution. The Supreme Court outlined that section 41(13) of the Workplace Relations Act 2015, which requires all hearings before an adjudication officer to be held otherwise than in public, to be inconsistent with the Constitution. It further held that the absence of a provision for the administration of an oath, or any possibility of punishment for giving false evidence, is contrary to the Constitution. It held that cross-examination of witnesses is fundamental to the concept of fair procedures though the absence of an express provision for cross-examination in the governing legislation of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, was insufficient in itself to render the Act unconstitutional, given the presumption that an Act will be operated in a manner consistent with the Constitution.

While the 2017 Act contains several provisions which recognise the quasi-judicial role of the FSPO, and the concept of fair procedures, the decision in the Zalewski case has required quasi-judicial bodies, including the FSPO, to examine their processes and procedures to ensure consistency with the Constitutional requirements. In this context, the FSPO has engaged with the Department of Finance on proposed legislative amendments that are suitable to address the issues raised by the Zalewski judgment, including a specific consultation process in respect of the proposed provisions of the general scheme. The FSPO welcomes the publication of the general scheme before you today, which includes provisions to take account of the comments made in Zalewski, and additional legislative amendments which seek to clarify my statutory powers with respect to complaints regarding financial service providers which are no longer authorised by the Central Bank of Ireland.

I will briefly discuss some key provisions in the general scheme. In the context of the statutory role of the FSPO, and taking account of the fact that confidential and sensitive personal data are generally at the heart of the vast majority of FSPO complaint investigations, we consider that it is appropriate and in the best interests of complainants in particular that a statutory amendment, as provided for in head 8 of the general scheme, must include the potential for a hearing in public, where considered appropriate, rather than introducing public hearings as the default position. Although some complainants may indeed desire a public hearing, many complainants value maintaining privacy over their financial affairs. The FSPO recognises the risk of discouraging potential complainants from making complaints against their financial service providers or pension providers, which might thereby reveal a broader or indeed potentially systemic issue or conduct. Such reticence may be because they are unwilling to risk the disclosure to the public of their private financial details. The potential impact of complainants not being willing to pursue a complaint to the FSPO could be very significant. I consider that in fulfilling my functions pursuant to section 12(1) to investigate complaints in “an appropriate manner proportionate to the nature of the complaint”, the potential to conduct hearings in public must be introduced in a manner which recognises this proportionate approach to investigations, such that I may decide to hold a hearing in public or in private, having consulted the parties.

With regard to mediation, it would be contrary to the Act, and contrary to the well-established procedures for conducting mediations, for any FSPO investigation by way of mediation to be conducted in public. Head 9 of the general scheme seeks to ensure that mediation is conducted in private to maintain the confidentiality of this important process, noting that mediation does not constitute the administration of justice.

The FSPO relies on complainants to make known their dissatisfaction with the conduct of their financial service providers or pension providers because I have no power to commence an investigation in the absence of a complaint being made by a complainant, within the meaning of the Act. It is only when individual complaints are pursued to the FSPO that the FSPO has an opportunity to examine the issues raised by such complaints and to thereby potentially identify issues or matters that may be of a systemic nature. Over the last two years my office has referred 25 matters to the regulatory authorities because of concerns that the issues noted in each such individual complaint could have a systemic impact.

In addition, the proposed amendments to sections 47(3) and 59(1) of the 2017 Act, as provided for in head 6 and head 10 respectively, address comments made in the Zalewski judgment regarding the cross-examination of the person being examined on oath, and the potential obstruction of my work. The FSPO welcomes these targeted amendments, which will better equip the FSPO in the performance of its functions.

The FSPO also welcomes the proposed amendment to clarify my statutory power to investigate complaints against a financial service provider, which was regulated at the time of the conduct complained of, even if the provider has ceased its regulated status before the complaint was made to the FSPO, or before the FSPO’s investigation of the complaint has been concluded.

Finally, with regard to head 5, the FSPO recognises the requirement for the demarcation between the processes of the FSPO and the Credit Review Office, noting that the Department of Finance is currently preparing legislation to put the Credit Review Office on a statutory footing. The FSPO considers it appropriate that this head is included to clarify that the Credit Review Office holds an entirely different role. This provision and, similarly, the proposed amendments to section 50 of the 2017 Act, once enacted, will clarify that a complainant may not make a complaint to the FSPO about a matter that falls within the jurisdiction of the Credit Review Office.

I thank the committee for the opportunity to engage with it today. The Office of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman plays a vital role in Ireland’s consumer protection framework and these amendments, once enacted, will reinforce the statutory basis of the FSPO. We are guided by our values of fairness, integrity, independence, accessibility and effectiveness. These values are at the very heart of how we approach our daily work and interactions with our customers. We will be very happy to answer any questions members may have.

I thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee. Regarding the Zalewski judgement, are there any findings by the office of the FSPO that could be now unstable as a result or could be could be questioned as a result of the judgment which required oral hearings to be held in public and the administration of votes and so on? Is there any concern about some of the decisions that have been made over the last number of years?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

From the day after the Supreme Court judgment in Zalewski, we amended our process to ensure that when we were notifying the parties that we considered it desirable to hold an oral hearing, we asked them whether their preference was to hold the oral hearing in private or in public so that we could take that into account in scheduling the hearing. I think in one instance, one party indicated that their preference was to have the hearing in public. We drew attention to the draft heads of a Bill that are before the committee today, and indicated that we might have to just look at that in the future and postpone the oral hearing for the moment. That person is now considering whether they want to proceed in private or whether they will hold off until we have had an opportunity to consider whether we will hold the hearing in public. One person's desire is only one factor because obviously the desires of both parties have to be taken into account.

Regarding the other factors mentioned in the Zalewski judgment, the idea of cross-examining witnesses has always been a feature of our oral hearings, without it being in the legislation. We have always had a stenographer take a transcript. We have always had the witnesses cross-examine the other party's witnesses and that has provided for a three-dimensional discussion about the issues, so I do not have any particular concern that any of the decisions issued are in danger.

Head 3 clarifies that, for the purpose of investigating complaints, a regulated financial provider shall include, unless the context dictates otherwise, a provider that was regulated at a relevant time. This is to enable the FSPO to investigate complaints against financial services providers that are no longer regulated. Has this been an issue for the FSPO? Are there cases it was not able to deal with because providers were no longer regulated by the Central Bank?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

It has not arisen as an issue. The head clarifies a position we are confident about already.

The delegates say head 5 clarifies the roles of the FSPO and credit reviewer. Could they outline to the committee the process that applies when a decision taken by the FSPO contradicts a decision of the credit reviewer? At the minute, there is a twin-track approach whereby an appeal can be made to both parties.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

It will still be possible for an individual who has applied for loan facilities to bring a complaint to the Credit Review Office or credit reviewer if it is put on a statutory footing and also to the FSPO, but the two offices have two very discrete jurisdictions. The FSPO will never interfere with the commercial discretion of a financial services provider. We will never direct a provider to make a loan available at a certain rate over a certain period, subject to certain repayments. That is something that the credit reviewer can consider in order to determine whether the lending criteria of a financial services provider were applied correctly. What we will consider, however, is whether, in processing the loan application, the provider acted in accordance with its regulatory obligations, including consumer protection obligations and the like, and whether it treated the person fairly. If a complaint is upheld where a consumer has been treated wrongfully, we might direct the provider to review the application again and process it in a more correct fashion. There are two aspects to this. One concerns the regulatory obligations and the other concerns the actual lending decision rather than the process of assessing the application.

And that is the way it will be in the future.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Indeed.

At the minute, is it not the case that there is an overlap?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

That is still the position, but this is to recognise what will be the statutory standing of the credit reviewer. There really is no overlap except in so far as it may arise in the same circumstances.

Has there never been an overlap?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

No.

So this is only clarifying something that has never been an issue but that requires clarification anyway.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Exactly.

I thank Ms McGovern for that.

Head 7 concerns where the FSPO can accept a complaint against a financial services provider or pension provider that has initiated legal proceedings regarding a matter. It is allowed to accept a complaint where it believes the legal proceedings are being initiated to frustrate the making of the complaint. Could the delegates clarify how the process has worked up to now? Have FSPO proceedings been delayed or frustrated as a result of a financial services provider initiating legal proceedings for the purpose of frustration?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

No. This particular head is correcting a cross-referencing issue in the legislation. The wrong section is referred to. The intention of the legislation was understood but the head clarifies the position.

Head 8 is at the core of the Zalewski judgment in relation to oral hearings and the requirement for quasi-judicial bodies to have hearings in public. We are not going that far, basically stating there is an option to have the hearings in public. I presume that will satisfy the delegates. The Attorney General is obviously satisfied more than the delegates or me regarding the judgment. I have not studied it, so I have no opinion on it either way. My opinion would be worthless anyway. Maybe the next speaker will pass judgment on that.

How will the decision be made? I agree with the comment that people making complaints, when putting pen to paper or lifting the phone, do not want to think they will be cross-examined at an oral hearing by a legal team from one of the main banks, considering all the weight that throws against them. That would freak them out and frighten them, and maybe they would not make the complaints. That is an issue. This continues to allow for what we expect, namely the holding of the vast majority of cases in private, but with the possibility of holding oral hearings in public. Was that not always the case? It would be decided upon after consultation with both parties. Can the delegates talk to me about how their office will determine whether an oral hearing should be in public or private? If a bank states mediation has not worked in a certain case and it wants an oral hearing in public, although the other side does not want that, what criteria will the FSPO use to make a judgment under head 8 of the legislation?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We will have to rely on the criteria set out in the legislation. As the head stands, it relates to consultation with the parties, the consideration of all the circumstances of the complaint and whether it is in the interests of justice. It is very important for us to work in line with the legislation set out rather than certain other criteria beyond it that may restrict the discretion given to us by the Oireachtas or in some way interfere with the criteria set out by the Oireachtas. We would have to consider what is ultimately set out in the legislation in making a decision.

It is a very broad head. It deals with three issues: consultation with the parties, the nature of the circumstances and whether the complaint is in the interest of justice. It probably does not give clarity to either side.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

It is probably not unlike that aspect of the time limits that requires us to consider whether there are reasonable circumstances allowing for an extension of the time and whether it would be just and equitable in all circumstances to do so. Again, how the formula is applied is specific to the individual complaint. In fact, we have judicial commentary to the effect that it is not in any way helpful to try to identify what the circumstances are, because they will be different in respect of each complaint.

That is fair enough. Subsection (4) makes it clear that the oral hearings will be heard in private in the main, or conducted otherwise than in public, bar in the circumstances set out in subsection (4a), which includes the three criteria. The legislation makes it clear that, in the main, unless there are exceptions related to the nature of the circumstances, consultation with the parties and the interest of justice, hearings shall be in private. How satisfied is the FSPO that this head is robust enough to comply with the judgment?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

It is worth saying that the investigation will be held in private insofar as it relates to mediation or a formal process where it does not involve an oral hearing. If it does involve an oral hearing, I do not think the legislation prescribes a default. I think a decision actually has to be made then. The decision could go either way based on the three criteria we spoke about.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

The other thing to bear in mind is that the Supreme Court view was that the blanket prohibition on public hearings caused the difficulty with respect to the provisions of article 37 of the Constitution. Having the means to hold a hearing in public will be adequate to satisfy that requirement. In working with the Department when these draft heads were being prepared, we spent some time looking at other bodies. Although they are not quite the same as they often focus on regulatory inquiries of professions, there were several instances where hearings are held in private in the main, but each of the bodies had the ability to hold a hearing in public. That is the context in which the head was drafted.

As head 8 is the most meaty and most important one on that matter, I thank Ms McGovern for that clarification on the judgment on the prohibition on holding hearings in public. My reading of it was - and it is only my reading - that as section 4 states "ensure investigations are conducted otherwise than in public", if "investigations" includes all aspects of the investigation, that is, receiving the complaint, mediation and the oral hearing, oral hearings would be captured by that sentence. There is a clarification or qualification in the next section which states that if it is deemed that an oral hearing is required, the ombudsman shall decide whether to conduct it in public or private and use the three criteria. I read that as the overriding point is that the hearings are held in private, but the three criteria can be used to decide whether a hearing should be held in public, rather than whether it should be held in private.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Yes. It is also important to note that the number of oral hearings is low. The vast majority of investigations do no involve an oral hearing. That section of the head prescribes what we should do if we decide an oral hearing is required. Once that is triggered, we are into that section and will follow its provisions.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

The Deputy is correct. The definition of investigation under the Act includes mediations and other forms of resolutions that are achieved. Bearing in mind that our closures in 2022 demonstrated that 82% of closures were achieved without even the need to start a formal investigation, it is important to recognise that the lion's share of the work we do does not require formal investigation, let alone a formal oral hearing.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

It is also worth noting that we closed in the order of 4,700 complaints in 2022. We are talking about approximately ten oral hearings per year.

It is the exception to the rule.

Perhaps we will have an opportunity at some other stage to talk about the resources and workload of the office and especially the substantial number of tracker mortgage cases it is still dealing with. As regards the processes, the witnesses will be familiar with their office's counterpart in Britain, the Financial Ombudsman Service, which has an independent assessor, who is independent of the ombudsman and can consider the standard of services or the practical handling of any case that is before the Financial Ombudsman Service. The assessor can investigate and review such complaints and make determinations, including requiring the Financial Ombudsman Service to apologise or to pay compensation for damage, distress or inconvenience as a result of poor service if the independent assessor decides the Financial Ombudsman Service has not met the requisite standards. We do not have that here. I am not raising this because of any particular case. Do the witnesses think it would be an important additional support? I mentioned the tracker mortgage cases. The Office of the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman has done stellar work on that issue recently. It has not only ensured that the complaints that have come before it found redress, but also, as it reports to the Central Bank, it triggered a response in which many hundreds of others who did not make a complaint got the same redress. In the early days, the complaints that went before the financial ombudsman were rejected. That was an issue. Do the witnesses think an independent assessor would strengthen the overall toolkit we have in ensuring there is an additional place to go?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

There are numerous differences between ourselves and the Financial Ombudsman Service in the UK. The existence of an independent assessor is one. The structures established by the Oireachtas involve the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman's Council that is responsible for overseeing the efficiency of the office, which the independent assessor would look at in the UK. The other thing we have done in our office, working within the legislation as it stands, is to put in place a structure under which complaints about customer service, efficiency or such matters that would be addressed by the assessor in the UK are addressed by a separate function in our office. That function does not have any responsibility for looking into complaints about financial service providers, but has responsibility for looking at the complaints received about the performance of our office and for addressing them. There are differences. The structures we have in place are working well at the moment. The assessor in the UK brings benefits. Ultimately it is a matter for the Oireachtas.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

May I add to that? Without an independent assessor, last year we launched a customer charter. We have a customer action plan which includes 13 themes. I will not list all of them but they include themes such as mutual respect and quality of service. We are looking to publish indicators and timelines on our website to show our adherence to some of those themes with a view to sharing better information with customers of our office who may want more information about what sort of timeline they can expect if they do not achieve a resolution in dispute resolution. All those themes will also assist in contributing to improving the service.

Neither the customer charter, the council, nor the internal division that handles complaints can force the office to pay compensation to any person who made a complaint that was found not to be up to the required standard. As I said, this is not based on any information or any complaints I have received. I am talking about structures in the abstract. Any office that deals with thousands of complaints - Mr. Sloyan talked about more than 4,000 complaints being dealt with last year, which is an impressive number - there will be-----

Ms MaryRose McGovern

I wonder if it would be useful to put some context on the number of customer service complaints we receive. The number we identified in 2022 was down 11% on the number we received in 2021. There were approximately 60. As regards the number of financial services provider and pensions provider complaints being received, 60 or 65 complaints in a year when we have a number of channels through which people can indicate their dissatisfaction is perhaps indicative that overall the service being offered is considered to be acceptable. We know from diving into and slicing through that data, that the single biggest issue about which complainants raise a customer services complaint is timelines and we are constantly trying to bring them down.

I welcome the witnesses to the committee this afternoon. We are carrying out pre-legislative scrutiny on legislation to amend the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman Act. It is important to emphasise that it is our legislation, as the witnesses recognise. It is also important that we have their input into it as they are the people who will be giving it effect and operating it.

As a preliminary introduction, it is worth pointing out that in the past 25 years the Oireachtas has made a conscious decision to remove certain functions from the courts and delegate them to new statutory bodies it has established. It has been done in respect of landlord and tenant disputes with the Residential Tenancies Board. It is done in respect of employer and employee disputes with the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC and it is done in respect of complaints against financial services bodies and pensions providers with the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman.

Does Mr. Sloyan recognise it is the administration of justice under Article 37 because it is of limited function and powers? Mr. Sloyan recognises and accepts that the FSPO is administering justice. Is that fair to say?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Yes, I think that is fair to say.

On the administration of justice, and this was the same issue that came up in the Zalewski case, they looked at whether the statutory body in that instance, namely, the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, complied with the requirements of a body administering justice under Article 37. One of the principal things one would look at is whether the adjudicators are impartial and will look at a dispute objectively. Is Mr. Sloyan satisfied that applies? I have no reason to think it does not. Is Mr. Sloyan satisfied that applies with the FSPO?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Absolutely. Independence and objectivity are core to all our work. I have been struck by it since I joined the office last December - I am relatively new to the office. I was very much struck by the way all of the staff live our values and deliver on them.

Good. That the parties adjudicating come with objectivity, independence and impartiality is one of the characteristics of a body that is administering justice. That is part of the reason the courts are so respected; people know that the judges come to it with impartiality.

Another factor is the administration of an oath. Is it the case with the FSPO that it allows people to affirm or have the oath administered to date?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Yes, it is.

Another aspect of the Zalewski case that gives rise to this legislation is around hearings in public or private. I would like to get feedback from the FSPO officials on my view. Under Article 34, justice should be administered in public. That is the requirement; it should be administered in public. Under Article 37, certain “limited functions and powers of a judicial nature” can be delegated to bodies other than courts. I suppose the default position of the FSPO will be that hearings will continue to be in private. Is that not so?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

That is something we discussed with Deputy Doherty. There is the default position that investigations are in private. However, once you go into the position of oral hearings, there is a process to be followed and criteria to be considered. Those criteria do not include a default position once you enter into that subsection. Perhaps that is something that can-----

I apologise for interrupting. Section 56(4)(a) in the proposed legislation states:

"Where the Ombudsman determines it is appropriate or desirable for a complaint investigation to include an oral hearing, the Ombudsman shall decide whether to conduct any such oral hearing in public or in private, having consulted with the parties and having considered the nature or circumstances of the complaint and whether it is in the interest of justice to do so.”

That is a fairly broad power given to the FSPO. Am I to take it that if both parties to a dispute say they prefer to have it heard in private, that will be acceded to?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We would have to be careful to apply all the criteria, which includes consultation with the parties but it also includes the nature of the complaint, as it stands, and the interest of justice.

My concern is that there are many disputes that go on to the courts and the parties would much prefer them to be heard in private, particularly commercial disputes or employee-employer disputes. It would suit the parties to have them heard in private. What prevents them being heard in private is the constitutional requirement in Article 34 to have them heard in public. Are we unnecessarily deviating from Article 34 and the requirement to have justice administered in public by setting as the default position that the FSPO's administration of justice should be in private?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

In the opening statement, we set out our view of the importance of conducting investigations in private in terms of people bringing complaints to us; the impact of having the default option that everything is done in public might have and the impact that might have on the number of complaints. Would we receive 5,000 complaints a year? Would we have this insight into the operation of financial services? Our view is that we would not. We also have the view that the insight we get from the 5,000 complaints we receive is important to the operation of the financial service and pension sectors in Ireland, including the decisions that we publish and the information about them, as well as the referrals to regulators and our ability to discuss things with this and other committees here.

I suppose the view of the FSPO officials is that part of the reason for the efficiency of the FSPO is the fact that these investigations can be conducted in private. Does that make the FSPO more efficient?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

It is less about the efficiency than it is about the accessibility of the office to those who have complaints against financial service providers, the insight and knowledge that gives us, and our ability to share and influence policymakers and regulators. It goes beyond efficiency to the effectiveness of our work.

The FSPO publishes its decisions but it anonymises them. Is that correct?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Yes, that is correct.

Okay, so the public can see them. Does the FSPO permit any media coverages? Does it permit reporters to come in? Would that be something it would give consideration to, if the reporters anonymised the parties before the FSPO?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

Is the Deputy asking about the hearings?

Yes, if there was an oral hearing.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

That is not something that we have considered and-----

Ms MaryRose McGovern

If a hearing is in private, then it is in private. If we reached a decision in one particular complaint investigation that the hearing should be in public, it would then be open to the public and there would be very few limits on the-----

If it was in public, would the individuals be identified?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

This is why there is a further amendment to the legislation on the publication of reports. It is recognised that if we have a public hearing in any investigation, a further legislative amendment is required in order to ensure that if the ombudsman considers it appropriate to do so, the parties would be identified.

Returning to the Deputy’s original question, it is important to recognise that the Constitution sets out a different category of entity in Article 37. While the Supreme Court is of the view that administrative bodies play a role in the administration of justice, it is important nevertheless to see the function of those bodies as a very specific thing. For example, in an oral hearing that is trying to get to the depth of an issue of non-disclosure, it is difficult to see how the interest of justice would be served by having somebody reveal their most intimate and sensitive medical details in a public arena. We have to keep our minds open. There may well be situations where a public hearing will be appropriate but I am not sure that having a default one way or the other for that subsection of formal investigations is-----

Has the FSPO had any public hearings to date?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

They are not permitted under the Act. The Act now states that investigations shall be conducted otherwise than in public, which is very similar to the wording in the WRC legislation.

That is why this legislation is coming forward.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Yes.

I have one question before we close. Of the 4,000-odd complaints referred to the FSPO, what proportion were found in favour of the complainant or plaintiff?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We publish our overview of complaints, which sets out the total impact of our-----

Ms MaryRose McGovern

I will let Mr. Sloyan look for that figure. I remind the Leas-Chathaoirleach that of all the complaints that were resolved in 2022, 82% did not need a formal decision imposing an outcome. We achieve a huge level of engagement in our dispute resolution services, where the parties are encouraged to come together. With the assistance of an FSPO mediator, they are encouraged to design their own resolution and come to a settlement themselves. It is only beyond that 82% last year, where there were other complaints that needed the formal process.

It is worth bearing in mind that complaints can be upheld, substantially upheld or partially upheld, so they would all be upheld in some respect. The Act also provides for complaints to be rejected where there is no evidence of wrongful conduct by the financial service provider.

Mr. Liam Sloyan

I will clarify further. Some 1,700 complaints were closed through our mediation process. Of those, 1,100 involved a settlement of some kind. Under the formal investigation process, 630 complaints were closed. Of those, 269 were not upheld. Another 74 were not upheld because the provider had made an offer that we considered to be reasonable in the context of the complaint. To give an overview, the total impact of this work was such that there were financial outcomes to the value of more than €5 million for people who brought complaints to the FSPO. We dealt with 4,700 complaints, of which 82% were dealt with through one of our early closure mechanisms, including mediation. The remainder went on to the formal process.

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Of the complaints that were not upheld, partially upheld or substantially upheld or were not upheld because the FSPO took the view that the figure that remained available to the complainant at an early stage was appropriate to redress the issue, the total number last year was 269 out of 439 decisions, or slightly more than 50%.

Fairly regularly, we get complaints against various financial bodies. Not all of them are referred to the FSPO. From time to time, though, the advice we get is that complaints should be. Since such complaints remain in the ether for a long time and continue as issues as far as the complainants are concerned, is there any way for the FSPO to intervene unilaterally where there appears to be an imbalance in the way a particular complaint has been handled before it reached the FSPO?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We must receive a complaint from an individual, small business or other organisation in respect of the conduct of a financial service provider for us to act. We cannot act unilaterally in respect of those matters. If someone makes a complaint to us and says that a financial service provider had not provided him or her with a letter closing off the matter or it had been strung along for a while, there are provisions in the legislation and within our processes to deal with that. Does Ms McGovern wish to discuss those?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

Yes. In terms of restoring the imbalance, as it were, it is important to bear in mind that, when consumers make complaints to us, they often have a real sense of having been treated unfairly, but they do not necessarily know what the regulations and consumer protection code, CPC, provisions are. This is why we exist. In our mediation space, we will reality check both parties as regards the conduct complained of. If the matter reaches a formal investigation, we start by sending a formal summary of complaint to the responding financial service provider. That summary asks questions like whether the provider complied with such and such a provision of the CPC, a matter about which the complainant will not know. We bring that knowledge to put shape to what a consumer may believe is unfair treatment.

I was thinking along those lines and I understand the answer. Finally, if someone in the FSPO reads in the media that a particular issue has arisen between a financial institution and a private citizen, can the FSPO inveigle its way into that debate or influence the level of debate between the two sides, given that the situation will continue in the general atmosphere as a complaint until such time as someone defuses it?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We have to act on receipt of a complaint. It is one of the differences between our role and the role of some regulators. If a regulator were to see an issue that it was concerned about, it would be in a position to act unilaterally, but we would have to receive a complaint before our processes could react.

Can a regulator refer something like that to the FSPO?

Mr. Liam Sloyan

We have to receive a complaint from-----

Mr. Liam Sloyan

No. From the-----

Ms MaryRose McGovern

If it is aware of a grievance having been articulated by a member of the public, the regulator can send the consumer to us to make a complaint and we can pick it up from there, but we can only act on foot of complaints.

We do more than investigate the complaints that are made to us. A large and important part of our work is the contribution to the prevention of complaints. This is where we see considerable value in the formal referrals that we make to regulatory authorities every year – there were ten last year and 15 the year before – where we identify individual complaint investigations that have led us to the view that there could be something systemic at play. We do not have visibility of the larger story. We simply see something in the evidence, which is why we make formal referrals.

It is also important to reference the additional sharing of information that we do with the regulatory authorities. In the past two years, we have shared 277 tracker mortgage decisions. We have also adopted the same approach to business interruption insurance decisions, of which we shared 65 in the past two years, so that the Central Bank will have an understanding of our perspective on those issues and how we come to our decisions.

This will definitely be my last question. Has the FSPO noticed an increase or decrease in the number of complaints coming to it about investment funds or, as they are sometimes called, vulture funds where they impact on the individual in a severe way that seemingly cannot be resolved?

Ms MaryRose McGovern

I cannot say that we are seeing an increase at the moment. There was a period after the credit servicing framework was put in place in 2015 when we saw a large number of such complaints. The amending credit servicing Act has brought an enhanced framework to that situation so that owners of loans, be they special purpose vehicles or otherwise, now have to be regulated and consumers who have those loans can make a complaint to the FSPO. This is an evolving space and a new credit servicing directive is to be implemented by the end of this year. I cannot say that we have seen an increase. There is a steady number.

I thank the witnesses for attending and giving us of their time and expertise in this area. I also thank the members of the committee for their input.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.10 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 17 May 2023.
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